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--- Log opened Thu Feb 07 18:04:23 2014
18:04 -!- mode/##AltSlashdot [-o Landon] by Landon
18:04 < amblivious> what makes slashdot is the people and reddit won't pull them.
18:04 < stoneforger> @Barrabas : watcha a need, got a small VPS don't know how it'll handle
18:05 <@Barrabas> Hokay - here's my vision for the site (10 lines or so). This was put out on the mailing list:
18:05 <@Barrabas> The purpose of the site will be to attract and keep readers.
18:05 <@Barrabas> I intend for the site to make money
18:06 <@Barrabas> I intend for the site to hire people, and be a good employer
18:06 <@Barrabas> I intend to listen to community feedback and do whatever makes the site better
18:06 <@Barrabas> There will be monetization; however, this is secondary to the primary goal, which is to attract and keep readers.
18:06 < mth> could you put a cache in front of it? I think the page only changes when edited; the number of reads between each change should be quite large
18:06 -!- Subsentient is now known as Subsentient1
18:06 -!- Subsentient1 is now known as Subsentient
18:06 <@Barrabas> No user information will be monetized (ie we won't sell our user's contact info)
18:06 -!- Subsentient is now known as Subsentient1
18:06 -!- Subsentient1 is now known as Subsentient
18:06 <@Barrabas> We won't poach from Slashdot
18:06 <@Barrabas> Monetization will be largely what Slashdot does now: advertizing, merchandise, and job postings.
18:07 <@Barrabas> Anyone remember the name of the site that would give you an automatic mirror?
18:07 < stoneforger> mth : something like varnish you mean ?
18:08 < amblivious> Barrabas: I think the concern is that people think if it becomes popular it will just be sold off to the likes of Dice. Any ideas for locking in community ownership?
18:08 <@Barrabas> There was an .edu site, I think, that if you prepended their mirror URL it would automatically mirror your site. Anyone remember what that was?
18:09 < rj_> Question about attracting readers: Sometimes the most efficient way to draw readers is to appeal to the lowest common denominator (e.g. stock photos with unfunny captions and nontechnical stories; see Reddit). Do we want that?
18:09 <@Barrabas> amblivious: Yes, I have some ideas on that.
18:09 < mth> stoneforger: yes, but I'm not familiar enough with it to know whether it is easy to tell it to flush the cached version when the page is edited
18:09 < amblivious> rj_: that's what Dice have done, so no.
18:10 <@Barrabas> Amblivious: the obvious way is to sell stock. That distributes the risk among several people.
18:10 < stoneforger> mth: I think the tuning could also be a wip
18:10 < stoneforger> rj_ : no - but reddit isn't all /r/spacedicks, there's communities we could reach to
18:11 < Landon> Barrabas: coral cache I think
18:11 < mth> stoneforger: just before you joined, Barrabas wrote: BlueHost tells me that it's caused by slow MySql queries. I have to optimize the database, which means breaking open and rewriting the queries.
18:12 < mth> optimizing queries would be a lot of work, trying to reduce the number of times the page is dynamically generated would be easier, I think
18:12 < Landon> Barrabas: maybe not what you were thinking, but here's one http://www.thegeeksclub.com/27985-coral-content-distribution-network-coralcdn/
18:12 < Landon> don't forget slashdot also has subscriptions
18:12 < stderr_dk> Barrabas: Coral Cache: Append ".nyud.net" to the end of the domain.
18:13 < stoneforger> yeah, although bluehost kinda sucks anyhow
18:14 < stderr_dk> But it doesn't seem to exist anymore... :-/
18:14 <@Barrabas> Okay, got a cached link:
18:14 <@Barrabas> http://www.altslashdot.org.nyud.net/wiki/index.php?title=AltSlashdot
18:14 <@Barrabas> This seems to work for the main page, at least.
18:14 < Landon> I would have laughed if it cached the outage page
18:15 < stoneforger> it does work for the main page
18:15 < stderr_dk> Not for me. :-(
18:15 < stoneforger> do you have stats right now on how many hits you're getting ?
18:16 < Landon> last I saw the main page, it said 3000 hits, but since then the site got on hackernews and all over slashdot threads
18:17 < Fishscene> Barrabas: Link doesn't work for me.
18:17 -!- srisi [~irssi@li283-186.members.linode.com] has joined ##altslashdot
18:18 < stoneforger> how about slashtod for the name (no one likes reversals eh?)
18:18 < stoneforger> or is it really that much of a legal thing ?
18:18 < Landon> I'm in favor of a novel name
18:19 < amblivious> stoneforger: someone already set that up. was it you?
18:19 <@Barrabas> Hokay. I'm a big fan of responding to concerns, and the biggest one so far is getting sold out in the future.
18:19 < Landon> 16:59:06 stoneforger ∈ I got slashtod.org setup hadn't noticed altslashdot was up
18:19 < stoneforger> yeah that's me
18:19 < stderr_dk> Barrabas: Would it be an idea to switch to a more "static" format for now? It would make it a lot easier for us to host mirrors.
18:19 <@Barrabas> I'm not sure how to address this quite yet, but It'll be on the list (as soon as I can get back on the site). We can solicit suggestions a little later.
18:20 < Landon> I bet even a static landing page would help
18:20 < Landon> instead of redirecting straight to wiki
18:20 < stoneforger> it definitely helps
18:20 < mth> I think varnish can be told to remove items from the cache on certain events (such as POST request) - https://www.varnish-cache.org/docs/3.0/tutorial/purging.html
18:20 < amblivious> yeah, then you can link to the cached version as required as well.
18:20 -!- benrock [6b0f683b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.15.104.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
18:20 <@Barrabas> If you can summon enough trust to believe in me for, say, 4 weeks that would be great!
18:20 < Landon> Barrabas: a few more concerns were raised here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193251
18:20 < amblivious> Barrabas: I don't think you have 4 weeks unfortunately.
18:21 < stoneforger> @barrabas : hey Jesus forgave you
18:21 <@Barrabas> stoneforger: The primary concern with "altslashdot" was trademark infringement. I'm of the opinion that most other suggestions which have "slash" or "dot" or some variation or pun would be similarly in danger.
18:22 <@Barrabas> I think we need a real "MBA would like this" name, something like NerdNews (for example purposes - I'm not advocating it) or whatnot. Something that's descriptive, catchy, and completely lateral to slashdot.
18:23 < amblivious> technophile
18:24 < amblivious> ugh
18:24 <@Barrabas> I was just offered "newslash.org " (via E-mail) for free.
18:24 < amblivious> bangslash didn't sound to bad
18:24 < castrox> quite the shitstorm they created.
18:24 < amblivious> too
18:24 < stoneforger> still if slash should be out of the name doesn't cut it
18:24 < stderr_dk> The network news protocol is using port 119... port119.net is available. (.org and .com isn't)
18:24 < CQ> newslash sounds decent, close enough but far enough from teh trademark...
18:25 <@Barrabas> In any event, let's address the new name in a week or two, once the site is up and running. I think we should have a contest for the name, let the community pick the best one.
18:25 < amblivious> agreed
18:25 < stoneforger> sure
18:25 < CQ> best comment in the ycombinator is that the content and comments are needed fast, the rest will follow
18:25 < Landon> have thoughts on how to keep people from squatting them once the word is out we're looking?
18:25 < amblivious> If you can crack the community ownership you might have a winner.
18:26 < mth> you could do a poll for the site name, but what if cowboyneal wins?
18:26 < stderr_dk> Cowboyneal ALWAYS wins!
18:26 -!- digitalmagus7 [~digitalma@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has joined ##altslashdot
18:27 < stoneforger> @Barrabas barrabas is so biblical - I think it'll be a nice match
18:27 < CQ> cowboyneal.org ; )
18:28 < mth> amblivious: let people submit ideas by e-mail, register all candidates before making the vote public
18:28 < mth> or by some kind of form, in any case a private communication
18:30 < stoneforger> @Barrabas I'll probably hit you with an e-mail about how I can help technically with the site (and basically any other way)
18:30 < stoneforger> if you can still get to your e-mail that is
18:31 < stoneforger> who knew after the slashdot effect we'd get the slashdot beta one too..
18:31 -!- stoneforger [b03a8e82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.176.58.142.130] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
18:31 < rj_> Refresh my memory: What minimum level of functionality is needed to attract a seed community, and what commitment will be needed from the seed community to make the project self-sustaining?
18:32 < rj_> I saw some talk earlier about "four weeks" and wanting to be able to hire people.
18:32 < rj_> I'm still trying to string that all together in my head.
18:33 < rj_> Is the plan still to port the original Slashcode?
18:38 -!- Cactus [3287c176@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.135.193.118] has joined ##altslashdot
18:39 < digitalmagus7> "altslashdot.org" is already getting slashdotted, I suggest you get more bandwidth asap
18:39 < Cactus> I was thinking thr same thing.
18:41 <@Barrabas> Howabout just naming the site CowboyNea?
18:41 <@Barrabas> CowboyNeal, I mean.
18:41 < Cactus> So, the question has been asked in more than one place: If /. backs off the new UI, are we accepting that? Or is the plan to just push ahead anyway?
18:41 <@Barrabas> I have to run off and talk to people about getting SlashCode up and running.
18:42 -!- randymon [~randymon@41.82.174.74] has joined ##altslashdot
18:42 <@Barrabas> I plan to go ahead even if Slashdot backs down. The quality of articles there has been getting pretty low, I have some ideas on that.
18:43 -!- juggs [~crypto@unaffiliated/cryptotheslow] has joined ##altslashdot
18:43 < amblivious> Barrabas: right-o. can you give some thought to your approach for community ownership when you get a break. I'm signed up as an editor and would do so even if Dice backs down.
18:43 <@Barrabas> Anyway, I have to run off. Can someone keep track of insightful questions and such ans put them on the wiki for me?
18:43 < amblivious> roger that
18:44 <@Barrabas> BTW, someone asked if they could put links to an *alternative* project from AltSlashDot on the wiki. That's fine - other projects, or misgivings about me or this project should all be put up for discussion. I'm serious about the community aspect.
18:44 <@Barrabas> 'Later
18:46 -!- pav5088 [~markp@ppp118-208-138-40.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined ##altslashdot
18:50 < rj_> Pardon me. Was my question misunderstood? The Wiki at altslashdot.org is running a bit slow. To be clear: the goal right now is to get an instance of Slashcode running on a large enough server to attract a seed community, right?
18:51 < amblivious> rj_: anything is up for discussion. I would personally like to see slashcode used though.
18:52 < amblivious> with some fixes of course
18:52 < rj_> Don't get me wrong: I have a strong preference for Slashcode.
18:52 < randymon> I'd be happy if the site looked like 2001 again. Let's go old skool.
18:53 < rj_> I'm just trying to wrap my head around how much labor and funding is needed to get things going, and how large the community will have to be for people to feel that the project won't just fade away.
18:53 < randymon> Keeping the site 'lite' will save on bandwidth and therefore save money. I think at this point you could charge for memberships - there's a core that would be willing to pay $20 a year.
18:54 < rj_> That is, I'm in the "wait and see" group, probably with a lot of folks. I'd be thrilled if we could restore some of Slashdot's former glory, but (in all honesty) I have the same pessimism anyone else does.
18:55 < rj_> I think a lot of folks are like that---we're all waiting to see if everyone else will stick around before we get emotionally invested.
18:55 < amblivious> rj_: agreed, but come the beta cutover date slashdot will bleed its assets (the people). You need to have something working by then.
18:55 -!- randymon [~randymon@41.82.174.74] has quit [Quit: leaving]
18:55 < rj_> And I'm wondering if anyone knows how much "success" the project would take for people like me to be confident that people like you are satisfied enough to stick with it.
18:56 < amblivious> it may prove a waste of effort, but if any is to succeed it will be the one the people can just switch over to and does what they want, as they expect it to.
18:56 < rj_> This isn't entirely academic... Some of us will be more inclined to contribute in nontrivial ways if we think the project will survive.
18:56 < amblivious> totally agree
18:57 < rj_> So... I'll shut up in just a moment, but I was wondering if anyone has enough experience with this to know how we can tell whether the project is self-sustaining.
18:57 < rj_> And how long we think it will take (roughly) to reach a point where we can tell whether or not it's going to work out.
18:57 < amblivious> what it takes now is a bunch of people getting together to spend the next 3 weeks getting an alternate site working. then we have a shot. After that we'll know if it was wasted effort or not. but it's not long.
18:57 < rj_> And how much resources we need (roughly) to reach that point.
18:58 < rj_> OK, three weeks. I like that. What can we have in three weeks?
18:58 < stderr_dk> rj_: About the "a large enough server": I think it might be wise to use multiple smaller servers. Avoiding single point of failure from the start and all that...
18:58 < amblivious> unless people can see something concrete nobody will believe in it.
18:58 < amblivious> you can have slashcode ;-)
18:58 < rj_> stderr_dk: That's fine; I'm not a web developer. All I know is that I want Slashdot back.
18:59 < rj_> What sorts of things need to be accomplished in those three weeks? Just getting that instance of Slashcode going on [multiple] server[s]?
18:59 < amblivious> Barrabas is planning to have slashcode going by Monday. He'll need support.
18:59 < rj_> What sort of support?
19:00 < amblivious> He's busy at present dealing with the server load. We won't know what he wants for a while.
19:00 < srisi> So you'd need money to run this, but you don't want to make people pay in order to use the site. What about asking for donations -- and to prove that you're not just about grabbing money -- setting an upper limit on the amount that *can* be donated before the donation campaign is cut off?
19:00 < amblivious> He's the only one so far who actually done anything and his head and morals seem to be in the right place.
19:01 < srisi> Set a high enough limit that a good amount will be raised, and those who are quick enough to donate money during the funding get profile bling or whatever. A status thing.
19:01 < amblivious> srisi: it doesn't need money initially as Barrabas is hosting. It will need hosting money, but if it's successful the existing slashdot model is entirely workable.
19:01 < srisi> Imagine people *racing* at the chance to donate.
19:01 < rj_> amblivious: Gotcha. So we're all cooling our heels until Monday, whereupon Barabbas will have a plan?
19:01 -!- PrestonL [Preston@206.81.170.217] has joined ##altslashdot
19:01 < rj_> And the plan is expected to take about three weeks to execute, whatever it is?
19:01 < amblivious> I'm sure he'll be back before then.
19:02 < PrestonL> I have slashampersand.com / .net / .org
19:02 < amblivious> Well, no, I seem to be the only one saying it needs to be done in the next few weeks.
19:02 < PrestonL> That would allow us to continue with same look and feel without trademark violations
19:02 < srisi> @amblivious Ads?
19:02 < stderr_dk> Does anyone know what kind of server he's using at the moment? Maybe it would be smart to look at some kind of virtual hosting where instances can be started as needed?
19:02 < digitalmagus7> Where is the slashdot.org source code located?
19:03 < digitalmagus7> it says its GNU... but can't find it
19:03 < amblivious> not sure, but I saw someone link to it earlier. it's quite old now but slashdot was more functional back then anyway.
19:03 < rj_> http://sourceforge.net/p/slashcode/git/ref/master/
19:03 < PrestonL> slashcode.com
19:04 < digitalmagus7> thanks...
19:04 < srisi> amblivious: Ads?
19:04 < R-TypeEman> i think slashcode is old enough it predates the horrible javascript comment system
19:05 < digitalmagus7> 2.1KB tar.gz ?? that seems way too small
19:05 < amblivious> srisi: yeah, ad funded, paid editors was the plan for altslashdot
19:05 < amblivious> personally I think community editing would be good.
19:05 < PrestonL> altslashdot will get nailed for trademark infringement
19:06 < amblivious> the name is still fluid
19:06 < PrestonL> ah
19:06 < srisi> Is that sustainable? Ads suck, everyone blocks them.
19:06 < PrestonL> We need AltSlashdot Gold like reddit
19:06 < PrestonL> where you get points for not blocking them or something
19:06 < amblivious> srisi: yeah, especially slashdotter types.
19:06 < srisi> If it's to be self-sustaining, getting people to open their wallets from day one is important
19:07 < stderr_dk> srisi: Some of the paying members at slashdot doesn't.
19:07 < amblivious> PrestonL: you can still hide them though even though you download them.
19:07 < PrestonL> altslashdot needs telnet interface
19:07 < amblivious> lol
19:07 < R-TypeEman> nntp server plz
19:07 < PrestonL> that would be so leet
19:07 < amblivious> http://meta.slashdot.org/story/14/02/06/2329227/slashdot-tries-something-new-audience-responds
19:08 -!- benrock [6b0f683b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.15.104.59] has joined ##altslashdot
19:09 < srisi> stderr_dk: Ad blocking is enough of a problem for content publishers that the topic comes up quite a bit around the interwebs.
19:09 < Landon> ugh, why would they redirect without featur eparity
19:09 < Landon> especially 25%
19:09 < digitalmagus7> What do you guys think of: ourslash.org ? I have that in case we want to use it.
19:09 < amblivious> that's quite a nice name
19:09 < PrestonL> OpenSlash.org would be so uber
19:10 < rj_> How much revenue will be needed? All I see on the Finance page of the wiki is a suggestion to raise $1 million per developer to support their retirements.
19:10 < rj_> Does anyone here have experience running medium-volume sites?
19:10 < benrock> I agree...the subtle dot after the word slash is nice and would avoid slashdot specific problems
19:10 < srisi> stderr_dk: It's great that some people don't, but it probably gets worse the more savvy your userbase is.
19:10 < rj_> Suppose that labor was free. How much money is needed for the machines alone?
19:11 < amblivious> rj_: it's really early days and I think Barrabas acknowledges it needs more padding out before any sort of fund raising could occur. He wants to end up with something that people want so he wants people to make suggestions. please add to the wiki.
19:12 < pav5088> Is there any kind of federated alternative? That would certainly help spread the financial burden
19:13 < pav5088> It would also help stop this from happening in future... but it's also a very tough problem to handle in a federated way. :-/
19:13 < PrestonL> United Federation of Slashdotters
19:13 < amblivious> yeah. any ideas about ensuring community ownership would be good too.
19:13 < PrestonL> BlueHost isn't going to cut it
19:13 < amblivious> there is the idea of shares for members
19:14 < PrestonL> they should get some machines from corenetworks.net
19:14 < PrestonL> they're cheap and leet
19:14 < amblivious> no, Bluehost is smoking already.
19:14 < Landon> if this could be solved by throwing machines at it, I'd donate a (small) vps
19:14 < benrock> I have to admit that the upfront discussion of Barrabas wanting to make money "in perpetuity" rubs me the wrong way. I would prefer more of a non profit, community oriented site
19:14 < PrestonL> Probably going to need dedicated machines.
19:15 < PrestonL> no profit
19:15 < PrestonL> all volunteer
19:15 < PrestonL> 501(c)(3)
19:15 < PrestonL> I can help set up a 501(c)(3) non profit corporation. (I am not a lawyer)
19:15 < amblivious> I must admit I prefer the idea of a non-profit organisation as well. that doesn't preclude having permanent staff though.
19:15 < PrestonL> https://corenetworks.net/order/dedicated/?server=EX25
19:16 < PrestonL> Whatever we do, bandwidth is going to be damn expensive.
19:16 < PrestonL> You can be non profit and still pay the people doing stuff.
19:16 < PrestonL> just can't give profit to shareholders.
19:16 < PrestonL> Organized with officers, etc.
19:16 < amblivious> a kickstarter will be needed fairly quickly to pay for bandwidth alright
19:16 < PrestonL> write the bylaws so that the decisions come up from the community
19:16 < stderr_dk> Isn't FSF a 501?
--- Log closed Thu Feb 06 19:16:53 2014
--- Log opened Thu Feb 06 19:17:31 2014
19:17 -!- Irssi: ##AltSlashdot: Total of 22 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 21 normal]
19:17 -!- Irssi: Join to ##AltSlashdot was synced in 0 secs
19:17 < PrestonL> http colon slash slash slash dot dot
19:17 < amblivious> heh
19:18 < PrestonL> GemDot.org
19:18 < PrestonL> leetdot.org
19:18 < pav5088> Who was the guy who was shoved out of slashdot and owned the slashdot.com domain for a while? I must admit I didn't really pay much attention at the time... this was eons ago
19:18 < amblivious> Bruce Perens had something too. he could really get something going!
19:18 < PrestonL> CmdrTaco?
19:19 < pav5088> No idea... but sage wisdom could come from such a person/s
19:19 < amblivious> Really the name is not important for now. All ideas on how a replacement could work are important now. A workable solution is not going to be trivial.
19:19 < amblivious> it's f'ing slashdot!
19:19 < stderr_dk> juggs: When was it decided who would get the .dot TLD? Dish wanted it all for themselves.
19:20 < PrestonL> We need to 1) Appoint Officers 2) Set up organization 501(c)(3) 3) Appoint Staff 4) Secure Funding 5) Deploy Solution
19:20 < PrestonL> This all needs to happen in like 6 days.
19:20 < PrestonL> on the 7th day, we'll rest.
19:20 < amblivious> I see it as more like 3 weeks. No time for most of that stuff still though.
19:20 < PrestonL> each of those has to happen for next step to go
19:21 < PrestonL> server need money, to have money, we need organization, organization needs people.
19:21 < amblivious> I don't agree
19:21 < amblivious> I agree server takes money though.
19:21 < PrestonL> Need to have someone / an entity that the money can be trusted with
19:21 < PrestonL> to accept donations to / etc
19:21 -!- cwix [6ca732ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.167.50.236] has joined ##altslashdot
19:22 < amblivious> it needs temporary hosting. it could simply be donated hosting for 2 months.
19:22 < srisi> s.lashb.org -- you've got your 1) reference to next-slashdot ("slash-b"), 2) newbie-confusing URL signifying 1337ness, 3) hidden reference to star trek, 4) lashb.org is actually available
19:22 < PrestonL> I love it
19:23 < amblivious> some posts to slashdot could sort that out
19:23 < amblivious> heh
19:23 < juggs> stderr_dk, As far as I tell from brief reading around is that .dot is still under discussion or TBA, hence the delay.
19:23 < amblivious> the initial labour can be donated.
19:23 < amblivious> there are enough people who feel strongly about the slashdot community it could work.
19:23 < amblivious> afk
19:24 < PrestonL> We need someone that can donate the hosting that has the resources to handle the load
19:25 -!- asdf [41735802@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.115.88.2] has joined ##altslashdot
19:25 < stderr_dk> PrestonL: hetzner.com? aws.amazon.com?
19:25 -!- asdf [41735802@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.115.88.2] has left ##altslashdot []
19:25 < cwix> I am no web developer, but I will be glad to help out with labor or donating $ towards hosting.
19:26 < PrestonL> doing it on aws would probably be cost prohibitive
19:26 -!- Cactus [3287c176@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.135.193.118] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:26 < PrestonL> I'm a PHP / MySQL developer, and used to use Perl.
19:26 < PrestonL> I could probably get slashdot running on a VM in a couple of hours.
19:26 < PrestonL> * slashcode
19:27 < Landon> eurgh, #slashdot @ slashnet is not a great place to be....
19:27 < PrestonL> I bet
19:27 < stderr_dk> Landon: Thanks for reminding me...
19:27 < PrestonL> I went there a few years ago
19:28 < PrestonL> There were like two people and nobody had been there in ages.
19:28 < PrestonL> it felt weird
19:28 <@Barrabas> benrock: You still there?
19:28 < PrestonL> slashnet.org should be the home of the new slashdot
19:29 < benrock> yes
19:29 < PrestonL> it's there - it's been there - it's independent - it has the right people
19:29 < amblivious> yes, good idea
19:29 < PrestonL> The people that run it are good people
19:29 < PrestonL> I remember talking to them
19:30 < PrestonL> they have the right ideas
19:30 < juggs> then spin up a bunch of nginx servers in front of the vps adding more as neccessary - that's trivial enough for the content but any database is going to need a scaling solution as well, the's not my thing at all :/
19:30 < juggs> that's*
19:30 < PrestonL> someone needs to wake up the slashnet people
19:30 < amblivious> agreed
19:31 < PrestonL> They have infrastructure
19:31 < PrestonL> The foundation for this is already set
19:31 < amblivious> yeah, that's the main thing.
19:31 < PrestonL> We're talking like were a startup with nothing to work with
19:31 < PrestonL> They have an organization that is run by people
19:31 < PrestonL> that has leadership
19:31 < PrestonL> now we just need to pour in as volunteers
19:31 < PrestonL> and work under them to build the new community
19:31 < PrestonL> and to add to it
19:31 < amblivious> that's the best idea I've heard yet. run with it.
19:32 < stderr_dk> They also have a name that's very close to slashdot. That could very well become a problem.
19:32 < PrestonL> We need to update the wiki
19:32 < PrestonL> and everyone should migrate to irc.slashnet.org and get with them
19:32 < PrestonL> SlashNET used to be sponsored by slashdot
19:32 < PrestonL> they have the rights to the name.
19:32 < PrestonL> any claim by dice will be thwarted
19:33 < cwix> Sure they may be thwarted, but that might involve lawyers
19:33 < juggs> but could be expensive to thwart in court
19:33 < PrestonL> Server Administrator |
19:33 < PrestonL> - | - res0 (Bill Kramme) <bk at slashnet.org> |
19:33 < PrestonL> - | Server Operators |
19:33 < PrestonL> - | - teferi (Adam Glasgall) <teferi at slashnet.org> |
19:33 < PrestonL> - | - joannac (Joanna C) <joannac at slashnet.org> |
19:33 < PrestonL> There are a lot of lawyers on Slashdot
19:33 < PrestonL> I should be one in a few years ;)
19:34 < PrestonL> A half decent lawyer could shut them up quick.
19:34 < cwix> Willing to take the case pro bono?
19:34 < stderr_dk> PrestonL: "Used to be" doesn't help much if they suddenly decide to compete again slashdot.
19:34 < juggs> and a whacking great holding co. with very deep pockets
19:34 < Landon> PrestonL: ok.... we have you.... and NYCL
19:34 < PrestonL> I can paralegal for a lawyer that would be able to enforce a case against them easily.
19:34 < Landon> that's about it :P
19:34 < PrestonL> We'd have like $2,000 max in protecting the name :p
19:34 < amblivious> we have NYCL?
19:35 < PrestonL> I'd write up the pleadings and we could get a lawyer to enforce them for like $500 a hearing.
19:35 < Landon> amblivious: well more in the sense of lawyers on slashdot
19:35 < PrestonL> max four hearings, if any.
19:35 < Landon> someone should get ray in here!
19:35 < amblivious> ah, right.
19:35 < juggs> anyway let's not dwell on the negatives - explore all the options first :)
19:35 < Landon> just so we have some big names :)
19:35 < PrestonL> I'm going to email the slashnet admins
19:36 < amblivious> It would be interesting to get Bruce Perens' view also.
19:36 < pav5088> groklaw died, now potentially slashdot?
19:36 < juggs> I see timothy has posted up some appeasement article
19:37 < cwix> Day late dollar short
19:37 < juggs> only 1 day?
19:38 < cwix> True. Many days.
19:38 < PrestonL> * @bk stabs Preston
19:38 < PrestonL> That was his response to my requests.
19:38 < PrestonL> hmm
19:38 < PrestonL> let's all beg him to do this
19:38 < PrestonL> to show how serious we are
19:38 < juggs> haha
19:38 < stderr_dk> Even if they drop beta, you all know what's going to happen in 3 months... beta dupe!
19:39 < amblivious> The Dice is on the walls now. it smells bad alright.
19:39 < PrestonL> Dice will just sell it to someone else that will ruin it
19:41 < pav5088> *shrugs* perhaps, perhaps not... but being prepared might be an interesting exercise
19:42 < amblivious> agreed if people leave slashdot without an option to go to it will be a much steeper climb.
19:43 < PrestonL> bk is talking
19:44 < juggs> good stuff
19:44 -!- Subsentient is now known as Subsentient1
19:44 -!- Subsentient1 is now known as Subsentient2
19:44 < pav5088> I have some small knowledge of a cloud technology (synnefo) and contacts with the GRnet guys (Greek research and university network)... but I think infrastructure is a solved problem with plenty of already existing solutions. Front end stuff I'm not so good with.
19:44 -!- Subsentient2 is now known as Subsentient
19:45 -!- Subsentient is now known as Subsentient1
19:45 -!- Subsentient1 is now known as Subsentient
19:46 < pav5088> http://meta.slashdot.org/story/14/02/06/2329227/slashdot-tries-something-new-audience-responds
19:46 < cwix> Yea, I'm looking at that as well
19:46 < PrestonL> empty promises from Tim
19:47 < cwix> So it seems. I am pretty sure that it will just be more rehashing.
19:47 < Landon> I can only wonder what the look on the editors face is right now
19:48 -!- gwennygoblin [gwennygobl@neostiltzkin.seijinohki.com] has joined ##altslashdot
19:48 < juggs> This made me actually laugh "And — okay, we've got it — it's not ready." no kidding the rabid cesspit of beta hate that the comments become :D I'm sure one of the other staffers was "taking it to heart" in early comment replies too. Must be a phrase on an internal memo or something :)
19:49 < cwix> I am not a typically a mean person, but I certainly hope that whoever designed this fiasco is looking at the comments and is taking it personally.
19:50 < gwennygoblin> i still wonder if it's not an order from on high to destroy slashdot
19:50 < juggs> it's not one person - it's another design by committee clusterfuck that large corps are so fond of.
19:51 < amblivious> gwennygoblin: it sure could be read that way.
19:51 < cwix> Yes, I hope they are all taking it personally though.
19:51 < amblivious> esp. when looking at the Dice commentary on slashdot's worth.
19:52 < gwennygoblin> yep. slashdot has falling revenues, and the commentary on slashdot is in direct contradiction to code.org and dice's goals
19:52 < stderr_dk> They admit that the comment system doesn't work, but they still redirect 25% of the users to beta. WTF?!
19:52 < cwix> The commentary is the only reason anyone goes to slashdot.
19:52 < stderr_dk> Exactly.
19:52 -!- srisi [~irssi@li283-186.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
19:52 < gwennygoblin> same here
19:52 -!- tickles [~pi@24-246-7-152.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined ##altslashdot
19:53 < cwix> Fuck, I can find dupes and week old news on plenty of other sites. I am more interested in what my fellow geeks have to say
19:54 -!- srisi [~irssi@li283-186.members.linode.com] has joined ##altslashdot
19:54 * pav5088 puts on his tinfoil hat, and gives it some viking horns
19:54 < pav5088> gwennygoblin, I'm hearin' ya :)
19:54 < cwix> Did you remember shiny side in?
19:54 * gwennygoblin lols at the idea of viking horns
19:54 < stderr_dk> I'm sure they asked for comments and feedback in email, so they could pretend they didn't get that many negative comments. They could have made a poll and ask us if wanted beta or if it should be deleted and never mentioned again.
19:55 < pav5088> cwix, damnit!!!
19:55 < gwennygoblin> that might have been a way forward if their agenda was to embrace web 2.0.4-rc5
19:56 < cwix> I always forget with my hats.
19:56 < cwix> They knew all this. They got all of the same comments when they first introduced beta months ago.
19:56 < gwennygoblin> it's amazing to me that beta hasn't really improved in the whole time
19:57 < gwennygoblin> they claim they're working on it, but beta stays the same old crap
19:57 -!- digitalmagus2 [~digitalma@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has joined ##altslashdot
19:57 < Landon> gwennygoblin: oh but they tweaked the font size! how can you not love it now!
19:57 < cwix> Hell, I think its gotten worse.
19:57 < gwennygoblin> lol
19:57 < pav5088> really didn't think this was going to happen... checked the beta and thought "that's not flying" and forgot about it.
19:57 -!- r00t_ [~r00t@76.74.137.155] has joined ##altslashdot
19:58 < juggs> it was that damn popup stating their intention to move to the new design that lit the blue touchpaper - shame they didn't read the label saying "stand well back" before they did :D
19:59 < cwix> lol @ juggs
20:03 < pav5088> Does anyone know of a bot that can post logs... I never really got into that kind of thing, but I think it would be useful.
20:04 < juggs> from here to a webpage?
20:04 < pav5088> juggs, yup
20:04 < cwix> you could script it in mirc, but its been a long time since I last set foot in irc
20:04 < Landon> you want pysg
20:05 < Landon> just point it at your log directory (you have logs, right?)
20:05 < juggs> I'm familiar with eggdrop
20:06 < pav5088> Landon, yup
20:06 < r00t_> :( .. don't post logs from here
20:06 < r00t_> get enough shit with nsa spying
20:06 < stderr_dk> I was the second one to join this channel. I got a log from then till now.
20:06 < gwennygoblin> what's wrong with posting logs?
20:07 < juggs> no doubt dice already have a spy in here /tinfoil hat off
20:07 < r00t_> Same reason getting rid of Anonymous Coward is stupid
20:07 < stderr_dk> juggs: You mean Barrabas? :-)
20:07 < amblivious> juggs: quite likely.
20:07 < cwix> Lol no one at Dice knows what IRC is
20:07 < gwennygoblin> i find that doubtful
20:08 < r00t_> Surprised they know what a browser is
20:08 < gwennygoblin> at any rate, it's clear that dice is going to kill slashdot, and the only thing to do is to go somewhere else
20:09 -!- r00t_ is now known as uid3324423
20:09 < cwix> Judging from the Beta site they just turned on a computer sometime last week.
20:10 < PrestonL> trying to get slashnet to contribute their domain name to the cause
20:10 < digitalmagus2> PrestonL: slashnet.org ?
20:10 < pav5088> Well... there have been some interesting alternatives discussed... perhaps rather than chat logs there should be a summary somewhere?
20:11 < PrestonL> yeah
20:11 < gwennygoblin> minutes?
20:12 < pav5088> gwennygoblin, yup... although after my tinfoil hat malfunction I don't know if I'm up to the job... and my logs are telling me they want to be deleted... :-/ very strange
20:12 < gwennygoblin> lol, k
20:13 < gwennygoblin> i'm too alcohol impaired at this point to be a secretary at any rate
20:13 < gwennygoblin> my tinfoil hat's been on kinda tight myself since 2/5
20:14 < pav5088> I posted logs to a pastebin last night from the other channel... that's just lazy, so I'm liking it
20:15 < juggs> I can get this going with eggdrop http://logs2html.sourceforge.net/
20:15 < digitalmagus2> please do juggs
20:15 < uid3324423> nooooooo
20:15 < digitalmagus2> why not?
20:15 < juggs> that should take care of turning the logs to decently readable content - then I just need to find smoewhere to upload it to
20:16 < digitalmagus2> anyway 1/2 the people in here have clients (i.e. mirc) that log by default
20:16 < uid3324423> Are you guys debian or Ubuntu users by chance
20:16 < pav5088> <--- debian
20:16 < gwennygoblin> gentoo
20:16 < Landon> ubuntuwindows
20:16 < juggs> debian + a little minty flavoured on the edges
20:16 < gwennygoblin> (gnu/gentoo/android/omgwtfbbq)
20:16 < uid3324423> and that unofficial Altslashdot poll confirms the stereotype
20:17 < pav5088> The one that says "bandwidth exceeded"?
20:18 < stderr_dk> juggs: How about uploading it to http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=IRClog&action=edit&redlink=1 or something like that?
20:19 < juggs> stderr_dk, good thinking sir, best if it's all kept in the same domain
20:19 < uid3324423> kind of hard to describe but Ubuntu users tend to want.. well, flashy things. They want their name on everything. They're vegan and will not hesitate to tell you so. In short, self centered. *shrug* Obviously not everyone but it's fairly common
20:19 < juggs> I'm away to no doubt realise how rusty my eggdropping has become :D
20:20 < juggs> eh?
20:20 < cwix> lmao
20:21 < pav5088> pastebin could work (with some scripting magic)
20:22 < uid3324423> If users cannot be anonymous, you're basically going to kill this before it gets off the ground *shrug*.
20:22 < pav5088> uid3324423, noones anonymous, especially on IRC
20:22 < cwix> Who said it wasn't going to be anonymous
20:22 < pav5088> mr ~r00t@76.74.137.155
20:22 < juggs> uid3324423 we all know where you live - what are you on about?
20:23 < juggs> :D
20:23 < cwix> lol
20:24 < pav5088> Community requires sacrificing anonymity temporarily to better build community
20:24 < juggs> 2 minutes and a polite request in the ops / help channel gets you a freenode cloak
20:25 < Fishscene> What was wrong with the way slashdot handled anonymity?
20:25 < cwix> Im fine with continuing AC comments
20:25 <@Barrabas> I'm on hold with the host :-) We're bumping up by two tiers, should fix the problems people were having.
20:25 < pav5088> Fishscene, nothing wrong with it... but I'm talking about now...
20:26 < pav5088> re IRC & logs
20:27 < juggs> if concerned about anonymity, sign off, change ip - connect back to the server with a different nick - get a cloak - then rejoin channel as anonymous76
20:27 < PrestonL> well slashnet isn't going to get on board
20:27 < PrestonL> they're too busy paying their mortgages and being old timers
20:27 < juggs> it has to be said.......
20:27 < PrestonL> "I'm 32 and remember when they didn't have user registration, I'm so old."
20:27 < PrestonL> lol
20:27 < juggs> 3.. 2... 1...
20:28 < juggs> FUCK SLASHNET!!
20:28 < PrestonL> It was a good idea.
20:28 < PrestonL> but reaching out to them was useless
20:28 < juggs> it diesn't hurt to try :)
20:28 < PrestonL> yep
20:28 < pav5088> FU... sorry, need coffee first
20:28 < PrestonL> we should all /part #slashdot at the same time
20:28 < stderr_dk> Barrabas: When you're sending emails to the "mailing lists" could you please use BCC instead of CC? Some of us might not want "everyone" to know our email address.
20:29 < juggs> and I was oly joking with my shout at them - perfecctly understanable
20:29 < digitalmagus2> ok, who's got a clue what to do with the git repository? I just downloaded it into linux... but there's no .html / .php index type file.
20:29 < stderr_dk> Barrabas: Or better yet, set up a real mailing list, when you have the time.
20:29 < PrestonL> You have to do something weird with Perl
20:29 < PrestonL> the whole thing is weird
20:29 < digitalmagus2> PrestonL: ?
20:29 < PrestonL> the thing from the git repo
20:29 < digitalmagus2> Their instructions link on slashcode.com is a broken page
20:29 < PrestonL> yeah
20:30 < PrestonL> I tried perl Makefile.PL to no avail
20:30 < PrestonL> I wish Taco would come here.
20:30 < PrestonL> and help
20:30 < PrestonL> He's on Reddit/Google+/etc
20:30 < PrestonL> Rob Malda
20:30 < PrestonL> need him here
20:30 < digitalmagus2> I don't even see a Makefile.PL .. let me see if I can find it
20:30 < amblivious> Bruce Perens!
20:30 < pav5088> Hmmm... tried to post log to a pastebin, but it got flagged as spam. ;)
20:31 < cwix> lol
20:31 < pav5088> perhaps "slashdot beta" is a keyword
20:31 < amblivious> so it turns out that #slashdot on slashnet.org doesn't actually have anything to do with slashdot and nobody there uses slashdot. how odd.
20:32 < digitalmagus2> that is odd
20:32 < stderr_dk> pav5088: altslashdot.org is a wiki... You could post it there.
20:32 < amblivious> I think I'll remove them from the altslashdot wiki
20:32 < PrestonL> malda@cmdrtaco.net
20:32 < PrestonL> someone should email him
20:32 < PrestonL> get him here
20:32 < PrestonL> and get him to give us tech support
20:32 < PrestonL> on getting slashcode working
20:32 < PrestonL> so that he can laugh at us to our faces
20:32 < PrestonL> for being so noob
20:32 -!- x0908d3b2 [~quassel@2605:ea00:1:1::fc81:29c0] has joined ##altslashdot
20:33 < digitalmagus2> I'm pretty sure they made Malda sign a non-competitive contract exit agreement. He's probably barred from helping
20:35 < amblivious> hah. wiki page has been suspended.
20:35 < digitalmagus2> suspended means = ?
20:35 < cwix> Really?
20:35 < juggs> Barrabas is on it
20:35 < juggs> over quota I expect
20:35 < digitalmagus2> the site made it on hackernews as well 3 hours ago
20:35 < superkuh> Netcraft confirms it.
20:35 < amblivious> nice intro to being involved with things slashdot.
20:35 < cwix> I am guessing the interest in an alternative is high
20:36 < juggs> altslashdot gets slashdot'd - someone right up an article on /. for it :D
20:36 < R-TypeEman> http://sourceforge.net/projects/slashcode/ something fishy about the reviews
20:36 < juggs> write*
20:37 < cwix> Those reviews are a bit "odd"
20:37 < amblivious> well, they're not reviews of the new beta!
20:38 < cwix> Lol thats for sure
20:38 < digitalmagus2> stuff on slashcode is from... wait for it... 2002
20:38 <@Barrabas> Okay, I've bumped the system up by two tiers - should fix the access problems people were having.
20:38 -!- Hedgie [b4c297a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.194.151.160] has joined ##altslashdot
20:38 < amblivious> slashcode was well regarded.
20:38 < stderr_dk> digitalmagus2: I don't think CmdrTaco has a non-competitive contract: http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/01/22/1912238/cmdrtaco-launches-trove-a-curated-news-startup
20:38 <@Barrabas> The switch-over will take place at 1:AM this morning.
20:38 -!- Hedgie [b4c297a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.180.194.151.160] has quit [Client Quit]
20:38 < amblivious> Barrabas: what time UTC would that be?
20:39 < digitalmagus2> interesting
20:39 <@Barrabas> We have someone who will port SlashCode over to the new system, and if we're lucky it should be operational by, say, Monday.
20:39 < digitalmagus2> Barrabas: Switchover to what?
20:39 < digitalmagus2> ah ok
20:39 < amblivious> awesome
20:39 <@Barrabas> amblivious: I think that was 1:AM Pacific time. About 6 hours from now.
20:39 < cwix> Sweeeetttt.
20:39 < amblivious> cool
20:39 <@Barrabas> Anything interesting happen over here?
20:40 < juggs> UTC is 01:40
20:40 < juggs> ^ now
20:40 < digitalmagus2> Barrabas: I have the following domains which I may volunteer: ourlash.org ourslashdot.org bitslash.org freeslash.org
20:40 < pav5088> pastebin with all of the fucks extracted from the betas (to get around the spam filter) : http://paste.debian.net/80589/
20:41 < pav5088> (this is #slashdot-refugees)
20:41 < cwix> Ahh, at least one of those was mine.. my bad
20:41 < juggs> sorry - I shall curb my potty mouth
20:42 < pav5088> apparently debians pastebin doesn't like "fuck"... :-/ I would have thought that would rule out the kernel and samba sources straight away
20:42 < cwix> lmao
20:42 < amblivious> Barrabas: #slashdot on slashnet.org made it pretty clear they have no interest in this. the channel has not really been about slashdot for years and most oif them don't even use it. You could remove the link to that from the wiki if it's accessible to you.
20:46 -!- owl_painting [~owl_paint@141.8.247.49] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:48 <@Barrabas> amblivious: Done.
20:48 <@Barrabas> Wow. What a day - I need to get some lunch. What time is it?
20:50 < amblivious> nearly 3pm on Friday. time for a beer.
20:50 < cwix> Beer:30 ?
20:53 -!- Subsentient is now known as Subsentient2
20:54 -!- gwennygoblin [gwennygobl@neostiltzkin.seijinohki.com] has quit [Quit: leaving]
20:54 < pav5088> It's 11:54am here
20:55 < cwix> Australia?
20:56 -!- Subsentient2 is now known as Subsentient
20:56 < pav5088> cwix, that's correct
20:58 < cwix> Nice, I've always wanted to visit.
20:59 < Landon> nearily 8pm here
20:59 -!- CaptainK [~CaptainK@181.179.85.192] has joined ##altslashdot
20:59 < pav5088> cwix, so long as you arrive between the cyclones ;)
20:59 -!- guest00 [52319d5a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.49.157.90] has joined ##altslashdot
21:00 -!- earthnative [~nemo@59.167.208.146] has joined ##altslashdot
21:01 -!- CoolHnd30 [~CoolHand@50.121.122.194] has joined ##altslashdot
21:01 < cwix> pav5088, I'll be sure to keep that in mind!
21:03 < PrestonL> cmdrTaco is working at Trove now
21:03 < PrestonL> it looks horrible
21:03 < PrestonL> even worse than slashdot beta
21:04 < cwix> News aggregate is what it looks like.
21:04 < stderr_dk> PrestonL: Impossible!
21:05 -!- Cactus [3287c176@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.135.193.118] has joined ##altslashdot
21:05 < pav5088> WORSE than beta? I almost spat my coffee... I think the hot chocolate in there saved me
21:06 < guest00> I'm not really a slashdot regular. What's this beta shitstorm all about?
21:06 < Landon> http://beta.slashdot.org
21:06 < Landon> mainly because of the "imminent switch" notice that popped up today
21:06 < Landon> switch to a non-feature-complete site
21:06 < pav5088> guest00, basically a lot of people go there for the comments... and the functionality is apparently quite retarded compared with classic
21:07 < pav5088> I saw the beta some months ago, and decided "this is never going to happen" and forgot about it...
21:07 < stderr_dk> Could all of this be a huge setup for the worse aprilsfool ever?
21:08 < pav5088> Apparently it's going to happen... I don't know about everyone else, but my personal concern is for the community... there's nothing out there that's quite as self directed, but also cohesive
21:09 < CaptainK> ya, this community is being unloaded...and with no direction...guess its digg time
21:09 -!- justinharris1986 [472f3808@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.47.56.8] has joined ##altslashdot
21:10 < digitalmagus2> I can't make any sense of Bundle-Slash-2.52 ... I install it, but its so tiny, how can it possibly do anything
21:11 < digitalmagus2> anybody else here have any idea how to replicate the website? I am willing to donate server/bandwidth and domain(s), but I need help getting it started. I still have a few tricks up my sleeve to try out, but so far, the git repo seems useless
21:12 < R-TypeEman> i tried their git example, of course it doesnt work
21:12 < R-TypeEman> warning: remote HEAD refers to nonexistent ref, unable to checkout.
21:12 < digitalmagus2> R-TypeEman: why do you say ... right
21:13 < digitalmagus2> So basically there is no functional source code really available
21:13 < digitalmagus2> or is there?
21:13 < CaptainK> where is CmdTaco these days anyway?
21:13 < stderr_dk> <PrestonL> cmdrTaco is working at Trove now
21:13 < R-TypeEman> http://sourceforge.net/projects/slashcode/files/slashcode/2.2.6/ this appears to be the newest tarball available
21:13 < R-TypeEman> from nearly 12 years ago
21:13 < digitalmagus2> lol
21:14 < CaptainK> he has the old source1
21:14 < CaptainK> maybe Snowden has a copy?
21:14 < cwix> lol
21:15 <@Barrabas> Bundle is a set of perl modules to install in addition to Perl. You want Slash 2.2.6, about 1/2 meg (IIRC)
21:16 <@Barrabas> It's available, but you really have to look for it. It's from 2009.
21:16 <@Barrabas> BTW, you may find this useful:
21:16 <@Barrabas> http://www.misterorange.com/docs/INSTALL-Slash-For-Dummies.html
21:16 < digitalmagus2> thanks will check it out
21:16 < guest00> Maybe this is a stupid question, but, have you guys considered moving to reddit or hacker news?
21:18 < Landon> I read both regularly
21:18 < Landon> but slashdot is a different experience
21:18 < Cactus> Not a fan of Hacker News.
21:18 < Landon> semi-curated articles, but freeform comments
21:18 < Landon> with a superb moderation system
21:18 < Landon> better than raw points
21:19 -!- juggs [~crypto@unaffiliated/cryptotheslow] has quit [Quit: Buh-Bye]
21:19 < cwix> Hacker news is ok, not really a fan of reddit. slashdot honestly just hits the spot with me.
21:19 < CaptainK> does anyone have a CmdTaco simulacrum?
21:19 < digitalmagus2> what's a simulacrum ?
21:19 < earthnative> <cmdrTaco> transparent terminals!
21:19 < CaptainK> science fiction reference...David Marusek
21:20 < CaptainK> "The Wedding Album" ... Good read
21:20 < digitalmagus2> earthnative: which chatroom does CmrdTaco hang out in?
21:20 < earthnative> no idea. I wasn't quoting, I was simulacrumming
21:20 < Landon> ComradeTaco?
21:20 -!- benrock [6b0f683b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.107.15.104.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
21:20 -!- Condescender [~Reifier@unaffiliated/sneakthief] has joined ##altslashdot
21:21 < R-TypeEman> https://github.com/scc/slash this looks newer
21:24 < pav5088> I've just asked for anyone awake in #diaspora to give some input if the Diaspora infrastructure could be used for some kind of federated slashdot workalike. Perhaps it can't... but if so it would be nice to have input to say so.
21:24 < digitalmagus2> Diaspora? Isn't that supposed to be a facebook clone?
21:25 < Cactus> On the surface, yeah.
21:25 < Cactus> But.. functions a lot different.
21:26 < pav5088> There are federated projects out there who have channels here, who might have ideas for something new/different... or not... Even if they say "not possible" it's good to know.
21:27 -!- uid3324423 [~r00t@76.74.137.155] has left ##altslashdot ["."]
21:27 < Cactus> I don't know if something ACs would work on Diaspora though.
21:27 < pav5088> A federated protocol just means this can't happen again
21:27 < Cactus> We still want to have ACs, ... right?
21:28 < pav5088> definately...
21:29 < Cactus> Not ever having to have made an account is one of the reason I liked /.
21:29 < pav5088> Perhaps the code could be hacked so there's a read-only unchangeable account called "Anonymous Coward" :)
21:29 < Subsentient> Well, my thought is developing a slashdot "standard", where a news server with comment/moderation support would run, much like an IRC server.
21:29 < Cactus> Yarr, maybe.
21:29 < Subsentient> Difference is, whether in server or client mode, everyone connected backs up their own copies, making it easy to switch to server mode.
21:29 < Subsentient> And not a beat is skipped.
21:29 < pav5088> I really have no idea... it's just a thought which may/may not have value... but it's interesting just knowing
21:30 < Cactus> Like Freenet, or .. the other network that I can't recall atm?
21:31 < Cactus> But with newsfeeds?
21:31 < Subsentient> Cactus: Kinda, but specialized
21:31 < Subsentient> yeah
21:31 < Subsentient> and comments/moderation/karma/etc
21:31 < pav5088> Subsentient, exactly
21:32 < Cactus> That might be neat. Not sure how you'd moderate / edit it though.
21:32 < pav5088> Moderation etc... fits very well with a centralised infrastructure...
21:33 < Subsentient> Cactus: Well, in IRC we have /mode ##altslashdot +o Subsentient etc, so we'd use something similar to that.
21:33 < Subsentient> pav5088: Well, some things, like global moderators, would be replaced.
21:34 < Subsentient> Stories would be accepted purely by user votes of course
21:34 < Landon> what tallies user votes?
21:34 < Cactus> Chickens, mostly.
21:34 < pav5088> Systems are strange chaotic things... we could be entering into dangerous territory
21:34 < Landon> how are the chickens connected to the internet?
21:34 < Subsentient> I was actually thinking of gerbils.
21:34 < Landon> oh
21:34 < pav5088> unintended consequences etc...
21:34 < Landon> that works
21:34 < Cactus> LAN cable. How else?
21:35 < Subsentient> The gerbils have 802.11/g.
21:35 < Landon> much better solution
21:35 < Landon> you can keep them in the gerbil wheel and stay connected
21:35 < amblivious> I just posted another complaint referring people here if anyone would care to upmod me? http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4761733&cid=46181925
21:35 < Subsentient> sure
21:36 < Cactus> Whatever. I'm going to find poultry to plug in to my home network. If my wife ask questions, you guys have to tell her it's legit.
21:36 < cwix> totally legit
21:37 < tickles> https://bbs.progrider.org/prog/read/1378443345 distributed usenet like service idea (admittedly this thread lacks a good general description, focusing on implementation details instead)
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21:38 < Subsentient> const char *Nick, MessageType MType, const char *Message)
21:38 < Subsentient> {
21:38 < Subsentient> oops
21:39 < Subsentient> That folks, is why I am waiting for my KVM to arrive.
21:41 < Landon> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193353
21:41 < Landon> this is a neat idea
21:42 < Landon> you must have contributed to the source to comment on the news site
21:42 < Cactus> Do code comments count?
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21:43 -!- digitalmagus2 [~digitalma@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
21:44 < cwix> Lol does language count?
21:45 < stderr_dk> Landon: I think the site will have very few users, if you do that.
21:46 < stderr_dk> But just in case, I would like to say: use common::sense; use CGI;
21:47 < CaptainK> they must be laughing their heads off.
21:47 < stderr_dk> Who? The headless servers?
21:48 < CaptainK> Dice
21:49 < pav5088> CaptainK, does it matter what they're doing?
21:49 < CaptainK> yes, that is why we are pissed off :P]
21:50 < pav5088> you certainly have a point there
21:50 -!- Twike [~mstanich@cpe-65-25-193-30.new.res.rr.com] has joined ##altslashdot
21:50 < stderr_dk> Do we know how much they paid for slashdot? Just to get an idea if it would be possible at all to buy it from them.
21:50 < pav5088> Someone was even talking about a greasemonkey script to remove all the fail from the live site
21:51 < cwix> I think I read something like 15 million.
21:51 < digitalmagus> cwix: ?
21:52 < pav5088> It's interesting that our eyes cost that much to buy
21:53 < cwix> The IT Job Board acquisitions and a non-cash impairment charge of approximately $15.0 million related to the goodwill and intangible assets of Slashdot Media and Health Callings.
21:53 < cwix> so taht included another site as well
21:53 < cwix> *that
21:54 < cwix> http://www.sys-con.com/node/2954081
21:55 < stderr_dk> When did they buy it? On March 25 2013 Dice Holdings stocks were at 10.43. February 4 2014 it was at 6.50
21:55 < cwix> Sometime last year
21:55 < CaptainK> the question now is, how do we make an Ark?
21:56 < cwix> Dice has pretty much written slashdot off. see following quote.
21:56 < cwix> However, advertising revenue has declined over the past year and there is no improvement expected in the future financial performance of Slashdot Media's underlying advertising business. Therefore, $7.2 million of intangible assets and $6.3 million of goodwill related to Slashdot Media were reduced to zero.
21:56 < stderr_dk> If it has zero value to them, why can't we buy it?
21:57 < pav5088> suddenly feeling my lack of knowledge of federated protocols - in an ideal world even git could be used as a distributed protocol... but there's a universe of griefer lattitude there...
21:57 < pav5088> stderr_dk, that is probably just an accounting artifact... not that I know about such things either
21:59 -!- robinld [~robind@fsh-cpe-52-155.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined ##altslashdot
22:01 < pav5088> I've just posted in #fsf asking after Bruce Perens... although probably someone else has contacted him already. It would be interesting how he attempted his alternative Slashdot all those years ago.
22:03 < robinld> he posted on /. saying he might be restarting technocrat.com
22:03 < pav5088> cwix, I know people depreciate eg. vehicles after a three years or so... doesn't mean they are worthless.
22:03 < Cactus> Hmm, would be interesting to have the users of a site up and purchase it from the current owners.
22:04 < Cactus> Anyone know what ~ how many people view /. in any given month?
22:04 < cwix> True, I'm no accountant.
22:04 < pav5088> ...although it's not a comfortable position swapping one dictator for another...
22:05 < Cactus> Yeah. Getting everyone comfortable with new leadership policies enough to pay in some $$ would take a lot of time, I think.
22:05 -!- jorb [~pete@pool-96-255-238-163.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##altslashdot
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22:08 < stderr_dk> I must be missing something, cause according to my math, $1,815,511.95 would be enough to own >50% of Dice Holdings... That can't be right, can it?
22:09 < Cactus> Been rough for them, no?
22:09 < stderr_dk> Yeah, but still.
22:10 < Cactus> That does seem low, but I haven't even looked at thier numbers. What else do they own?
22:10 < pav5088> stderr_dk, it would be interesting to see all the slimey internal dealings of a media company... ;)
22:10 -!- enrgeeman [45a4d914@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.164.217.20] has joined ##altslashdot
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22:11 < pav5088> reputation management etc... they could be their own news for a while. ;)
22:12 -!- Quinn_Inuit [4c6a7b4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.106.123.77] has joined ##altslashdot
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22:12 < Quinn_Inuit> Hello!
22:12 < pav5088> There was an Australian series called the Gruen Transfer... very interesting on that kind of thing from inside the PR/advertising industry
22:12 < stderr_dk> Maybe I'm misunderstanding http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/dhx.html but as I read it, Dice Holdings is made up of 533,188 stocks. 50% of that is 266,594. +1 to have more than 50%, that's 266,595. At $6.81 each that's $1,815,511.95
22:12 < stderr_dk> What am I missing?
22:13 < Cactus> Greetingingings!
22:13 < Cactus> stderr_dk: Sound right.
22:13 < Cactus> s*
22:14 -!- Cact [3287c176@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.135.193.118] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
22:14 < stderr_dk> With 32 people in the channel, that's 56,734.7484375 each. :-)
22:15 < Quinn_Inuit> Did anyone see that Bruce Perens is open to bringing back http://technocrat.net/ ? If this community joins forces with him, it might work this time.
22:15 < stderr_dk> How many bitcoins is that?
22:15 < Cactus> lol
22:15 < robinld> quinn: yeah I had noticed that
22:15 < robinld> quinn: would be pretty cool I think
22:16 < Cactus> Never look at that. How community-oriented is it?
22:16 < Quinn_Inuit> I think he wants it to be a straight-up Slashdot replacement, very community-oriented.
22:17 < Quinn_Inuit> I strongly suspect his goals and the goals of this altslashdot community align in all key respects.
22:18 < enrgeeman> that would be pretty awesome if it works this time
22:19 < Cactus> Well, I suppose everyone wouuld have to be together on it, and as a community really push the site forward, no?
22:20 <@Barrabas> Here's a question. People have misgivings about me "selling out" ig AltSlashdot gets big. Would you trust Bruce as the owner?
22:20 < Subsentient> Bruce Almighty? Sure.
22:22 < digitalmagus> Bruce who?
22:22 * Subsentient busts up
22:22 < Cactus> I'd be worried about anyone dumping the site for a quick buck, if you had piles of people trying to make it work.
22:22 <@Barrabas> I've been pondering how to handle the risk. Selling a share to Craig Newmark came to mind, but Bruce is another option.
22:22 < Quinn_Inuit> Bruce Perens? Definitely. I think he's accumulated enough respect that he would be widely trusted.
22:23 <@Barrabas> *Sigh*. I don't get no respect!
22:23 < Quinn_Inuit> I'm sorry. You know how it goes, though.
22:24 <@Barrabas> This, from "The Mighty Quinn".
22:25 < Landon> Barrabas: aggressively opensourcing the code would be a good start
22:25 < robinld> it's already opensource
22:25 < Quinn_Inuit> LOL, yeah. I make no claims to respect, myself, or even being a real eskimo.
22:26 < Landon> and keeping the database relatively distributed so no one person held the keys to the land
22:26 < Landon> mainly, making it easy to fork
22:26 < Landon> "I hate this Barrabas guy, I'm going to take my copy of the database and go start AltSlashdotAlt.org"
22:26 <@Barrabas> Over in the slashcode group, that's pretty much a done deal. We only need the time to make it happen (open sourcing the code).
22:27 < Landon> robinld: slashcode currently is, but modern slashdot isn't (afaik)
22:27 < Quinn_Inuit> That makes sense. Paradoxically, the easier you make it for people to leave, the more likely it is that they won't.
22:27 <@Barrabas> Sorry - I meant the group of people working on "altSlashdot" on converting SlashCode. All new developments will be released to open source.
22:28 < Landon> awesome :) do you have a github or something going ?
22:28 < robinld> it's on the dev todo list
22:29 <@Barrabas> Yes. We don't have one *right now*, but I expect in about 2 weeks we'll have had one for a couple of days.
22:29 < Landon> another suggestion, we could voice people in here that are actively working on slashcode/altslash
22:29 <@Barrabas> We also wanted to do a cleaning sweep before releasing it. It may take longer than "right away", but we're planning on doing it.
22:30 <@Barrabas> What does that mean - "voice" prople?
22:30 -!- mode/##AltSlashdot [+v Landon] by ChanServ
22:30 <+Landon> <-- gives you a +
22:31 < robinld> it makes you special in irc land
22:31 <+Landon> practically, that's all it does
22:31 < pav5088> If Dice is relatively cheap I wonder if it's in Kickstarter range
22:31 < CoolHnd30> voice can' be "a sign of honor" thing in an open room... or you can silence everyone but ops and voice... (that's the technical use)
22:32 < robinld> it's exactly like the nets in enders game
22:32 < robinld> where user would logon to read debates live
22:32 < robinld> but they couldn't actually talk in the channel
22:32 < robinld> or whatever
22:32 < robinld> </nerd>
22:32 -!- mode/##AltSlashdot [-v Landon] by ChanServ
22:32 <@Barrabas> Gotta go - dinner's ready.
22:32 < Landon> CoolHnd30: yeah, but no one actually makes rooms +m anymore
22:33 < Quinn_Inuit> The problem with trying to buy Dice is that we'd have to run it if we won. Unless we lined up someone with executive experience, that would probably fail badly.
22:33 < CoolHnd30> yeah... not too much... of course I haven't been in IRC much for about 5 years.. :)
22:33 < Quinn_Inuit> Later!
22:33 < Landon> CoolHnd30: for that matter, I'm not sure many people even know halfops exist anymore!
22:33 < enrgeeman> Barrabas: enjoy!
22:34 < guest00> Someone made a thread on 4chan about this
22:34 < CoolHnd30> "this" as in slashdot beta sucking?
22:36 -!- tphr [46e22b19@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.226.43.25] has joined ##altslashdot
22:36 < Subsentient> CoolHnd30: If it sucked any harder, the atmosphere would be dragged and compressed into a singularity and become a black home.
22:36 < tphr> Hi Audience
22:36 < Subsentient> black hole*
22:37 < robinld> lol sup
22:37 < tphr> buildling a slash type of moderation system on top of NNTP would be nice
22:38 < robinld> sounds hard
22:38 < tphr> well i dunno..
22:38 < tphr> have regular nntp client and server
22:38 < tphr> as a basic form of access to discussions
22:39 < tphr> but have an extended client that can apply moderation and filtering on top of it
22:39 < tphr> if you want to use it
22:40 < Quinn_Inuit> That's an interesting idea, but it would fundamentally change the commenting system unless you could really nail the UI. I think that kind of change is precisely what we're trying to avoid.
22:41 < pav5088> Quinn_Inuit, I'd say the Debian project at least has executive experience... though, granted, in the non-profit sphere
22:41 < Quinn_Inuit> I do like the idea of using NNTP, though.
22:41 < Quinn_Inuit> pav5088, that's a good point. Do you think they'd be likely to help?
22:41 < tphr> it would avoid having to have a huge server-side load
22:42 < tphr> the current slashdot uses at least 16 caching servers alone
22:42 < tphr> there's at least eight that just serve the front page
22:43 < earthnative> tphr: I have long wanted a web-forum/mailing-list/etc which was backed by nntp.
22:43 < tphr> this is a similar problem to the efforts to get a federated social networking protocol working
22:44 < Quinn_Inuit> Does the Baen (Books) Bar use something like that?
22:44 < pav5088> Quinn_Inuit, only if it fit their goals... which this may or may not do (up to them to decide)
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22:52 < tphr> i've never actually looked at SlashCloud or SlashDataCenter
22:52 < tphr> the fscking beta kinda suggests it looks like they want slashdot to turn into something similar
22:53 < tphr> does SlashBIcurious get any traffic at all?
22:56 -!- nebulus4 [54d39a5d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.211.154.93] has quit [Client Quit]
22:56 < Cactus> Is that a thing?
22:56 < tphr> SlashBI?
22:56 < Cactus> Yah
22:56 < tphr> yup
22:57 < tphr> they launched it a few years ago
22:57 < tphr> i think a lot of people thought it was an april fool joke
22:57 < Cactus> And there was an expected userbse for it?
22:57 < tphr> i dunno.
22:57 < Cactus> Weird. I hafta see this
22:58 < tphr> http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/
22:58 < Cactus> OH. That.
22:58 < tphr> note how they post the same stories as the main slashdot, but htere are almost never any comments
22:58 < Cactus> Yeah.
22:59 < Cactus> It seems thats where they want /. going.
23:00 < tphr> that is the beta comments system
23:00 < stderr_dk> Most comments on the front page of SlashBI: Wolfram Alpha Offers Some Data for Super Bowl XLVIII: 4 comments.
23:00 < tphr> it looks like a bad clone of arstechnica
23:00 -!- Barrabas [~chatzilla@pool-71-241-129-212.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined ##altslashdot
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23:01 < stderr_dk> SlashCloud has "articles" with _5_ comments!
23:02 < Quinn_Inuit> Does that site have a point?
23:02 < Quinn_Inuit> I was never clear on why it existed.
23:02 -!- pbnjoe [~pbnjoe@unaffiliated/pbnjoe] has joined ##altslashdot
23:02 < stderr_dk> Does any of the Slash-"not dot" sites?
23:03 -!- joj [~joj@unaffiliated/joj] has joined ##altslashdot
23:04 -!- meisterister [~mgohde@168-103-255-234.clsp.qwest.net] has joined ##altslashdot
23:04 < stderr_dk> http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/filezilla-evil-twin-steals-ftp-logins/ 6 comments. None of them makes sense as far as I can tell.
23:04 -!- Nightbrood [~Nightbroo@cpe-184-58-1-74.woh.res.rr.com] has joined ##altslashdot
23:04 < stderr_dk> I hope that isn't what they're planning for slashdot.
23:05 < huffyuv> one thing I wonder is if this project will live on if Slashdot actually keeps Classic available after all? anyone have any word from altslashdot founder on this?
23:05 < Nightbrood> right now I think this all started coming together late in the day. Friday should give us time to get a more cohesive response
23:05 < Nightbrood> Everything seemed to just take on a life of its own this morning
23:06 < digitalmagus> wow... this is u-gly
23:06 < digitalmagus> wtf twitter comments in French?
23:06 < meisterister> The beta takes conversations from twitter?!
23:06 < tphr> i think seriously building an alternative slashdot with the same level of robustness is a huge undertaking
23:06 < meisterister> What a mess!
23:06 < huffyuv> i can see if people don't want to commit to altslashdot yet
23:06 < tphr> a vast amount of work and effort has gone into the slashdot system to make it bulletproof
23:07 < Nightbrood> well, I think alot will have to come together but having a site will be the first step to showing the community we're serious about giving them a place to go
23:07 -!- mode/##AltSlashdot [+o Barrabas] by ChanServ
23:07 < stderr_dk> tphr: Bulletproof until Dice got their hands on it.
23:07 < CoolHnd30> huffyuv, they confirmed classic will be going away as soon as beta is "ready"
23:08 < Nightbrood> that was even in their "response" from earlier this evening... very underwhelming.
23:08 < tphr> The 2013 financial report confirms it doesnt really make any money, so i dont see why they're really too concerned about the 'community'
23:08 < PrestonL> wow
23:09 < PrestonL> killing off the classic site
23:09 < Landon> stderr_dk: even then, unicode bullets ... :)
23:09 < PrestonL> comments from twitter
23:09 < Quinn_Inuit> The "community" is the only asset they have of any real value.
23:09 <@Barrabas> huffyuv: I'll be continuing the project even if Slashdot reverts to classic.
23:09 < CoolHnd30> "Most importantly, we want you to know that Classic Slashdot isn't going away until we're confident that the new site is ready."
23:09 < PrestonL> what's next? "log in from Facebook"
23:09 < Nightbrood> well my background is from Accounting / Finance, it is amazing what you can do with intercompany accounting
23:09 < PrestonL> They are really going to fuck this up
23:09 <@Barrabas> My take is that the quality of stories has been pretty low, and we can do a lot better.
23:09 < Nightbrood> yes it seems like they intend to
23:09 < huffyuv> ok but suppose if the unlikely would happen... i know a number of reasons we could need a better alternative anyway
23:09 < Landon> PrestonL: heyoooooo
23:09 < tphr> It's kind of screwed anyway in the last few years with the story choices
23:09 < PrestonL> yo yo
23:09 < Quinn_Inuit> @Barrabas I agree.
23:09 < PrestonL> anyone get SlashCode working?
23:09 < Nightbrood> I agree. Quality of the stories and editors has been very lacking
23:09 < PrestonL> If not, I'll have a go at it.
23:10 < Landon> I actually wouldn't mind it if AltSlashdot had FB logins
23:10 < Nightbrood> isn't Slashcode a pretty old base to work from?
23:10 < PrestonL> the git one isn't
23:10 < PrestonL> the cvs is
23:10 < stderr_dk> Landon: I would!
23:10 < digitalmagus> PrestonL: I'm giving it a try, but the installation instructions are like 20 pages long. Definitely not just a 1/2 dozen commands and presto.
23:10 < Landon> stderr_dk: why?
23:10 < Landon> (as an option of course, like current /. )
23:10 < tphr> They've really gone for knee-jeck response flame bait. Drones, drones, drones, 3d printer slashvertisement, NSA, Drones, slashvertismeent
23:10 < meisterister> I think that it would be a good idea to put a reference to AltSlashdot at the end of every f*ck beta thread.
23:10 < huffyuv> Barrabas good to hear
23:10 < Nightbrood> no different than the man pages for tar :P
23:10 < stderr_dk> Landon: As an option, ok.
23:11 < stderr_dk> Not as the only option.
23:11 < Landon> I don't know of any site that does it as the only option
23:11 < Landon> ..... except facebook
23:11 < Landon> :)
23:11 < robinld> i'm working on it right now
23:11 <@Barrabas> A volunteer will be trying to install Slashcode probably starting tomorrow. We're hoping to have a working site up by Monday.
23:11 < stderr_dk> tphr: You forgot bitcoins.
23:11 < tphr> seeing as we have what would be prime members of a new site in this room, what age group / gender are you all?
23:11 < tphr> male, 40s here
23:11 < meisterister> Will the new site have registration?
23:11 < Landon> /topic A/S/L, everyone
23:11 < robinld> 13/f/la
23:11 < PrestonL> LOL
23:11 < Quinn_Inuit> LOL
23:12 < stderr_dk> 13/F/FBI
23:12 < PrestonL> 13/f/la means 37/m/FBI
23:12 < PrestonL> hahahaha
23:12 <@Barrabas> Should I put a bitcoin donations thing in the wiki?
23:12 < PrestonL> wow
23:12 < tphr> obviously everyone except natalie portman
23:12 < Nightbrood> lol
23:12 < PrestonL> yes
23:12 < PrestonL> So that I can get rid of this stupid 1/10000 of a bitcoin I had given to me once
23:12 < PrestonL> haha
23:12 <@Barrabas> lol
23:13 < Landon> how are you guys getting the git slashcode?
23:13 * Landon can't find a working repo to clone from
23:13 < huffyuv> 22 m no
23:13 < digitalmagus> git is broken
23:13 < Twike> 33/M/the cold part of USA
23:13 < robinld> oh yes my new centos vm is bootin as we speak
23:13 < Nightbrood> 32/M/OH
23:13 <@Barrabas> No idea. I got a copy last night, it's from 1009.
23:13 < Landon> wow, that is ancient
23:13 < CoolHnd30> lol
23:14 < guest00> 28/man/italy
23:14 < Landon> 25/M/KS
23:14 < tphr> heck you're all babies
23:14 < Quinn_Inuit> 33/M/Washington, D.C.
23:14 < tphr> get off my lawn
23:14 < CoolHnd30> tphr: I'm in 40's with you... (and M, of course... )
23:14 < Nightbrood> lol...
23:14 < Quinn_Inuit> lol
23:14 < Nightbrood> I started reading slashdot from the beginning so I guess that would be the reason
23:15 < tphr> I was re-aligning Shugart 8 inch drives when you were in pre-existance
23:15 < huffyuv> tphr waaaaah the old man was bad to me
23:15 < enrgeeman> 25/m/ny, started reading /. in high school
23:15 < Nightbrood> wow... I thought my 486 DX2 was an old school experience... you have me beat by quite a bit
23:15 < stderr_dk> Well, it's about 5 in the morning here and I need to get up in less than 3 hours, so... See you!
23:15 < pav5088> 40/m/Australia
23:16 < Quinn_Inuit> Same here. Later!
23:16 < pav5088> Started on Vic20, but first real PC experience was C64
23:16 -!- Quinn_Inuit [4c6a7b4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.106.123.77] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:17 < CoolHnd30> I started on TI-94A, but first real pc experience was on a Heathkit CPM pre-dos machine..
23:17 < tphr> the value of this community is the secondary influence they bring to bear on technical decisions
23:17 < guest00> so a bunch of young to middle-aged men... who would have though??
23:17 < Nightbrood> you guys make me feel like a newb... DOS seems so modern by comparison :P
23:18 <@Barrabas> (Don't tell, but I started computers on an IBM 1130)
23:18 < meisterister> Wow... I should be quiet about my first computer being an Athlon then, shouldn't I...
23:18 < tphr> good ole TOPS20
23:18 < Nightbrood> lol... I preached about the Athlon to anyone who would listen back in the day... fond memories.
23:18 < PrestonL> I had a TI-92+
23:18 < PrestonL> still have
23:18 < PrestonL> it's so leet
23:18 < Nightbrood> same here
23:18 < PrestonL> Athlon was so leet in it's day
23:19 < PrestonL> Now AMD has no new fabs.
23:19 < tphr> NHL Hockey on the Intellivision looked so sweet in the brochure
23:19 < Nightbrood> I still have several slot A Athlons in my hobby collection :)
23:19 < meisterister> Kind of sad what happened to AMD...
23:19 < Nightbrood> yes it is
23:19 < tphr> not as sad as what happened to Commodore
23:19 < pav5088> Well... I'm certainly not going to be doing a "show me the code" for anyone else in this predicament unfortunately... unless you're looking for relatively primitive cloud skills (Synnefo)
23:19 < meisterister> I'll give you that.
23:20 -!- benDos [ae3d95d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.61.149.215] has joined ##altslashdot
23:20 < meisterister> Hello!
23:20 < benDos> Hey, how's it going?
23:20 < Nightbrood> going well, how about you?
23:20 -!- rdavis [~robind@fsh-cpe-52-155.resnet.ucsc.edu] has joined ##altslashdot
23:20 < Nightbrood> hi rdavis
23:21 < pav5088> If anyone waved a pen drive with Slashcode on it at me I think I'd run.
23:21 < benDos> Pretty well
23:21 < Nightbrood> lol... just get unicode support in it and the community would love you ;)
23:21 < benDos> Did I miss some reason for beta?
23:21 -!- robinld [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:21 < benDos> Does it have lower server costs maybe?
23:22 < Nightbrood> Dice is "improving" the experience to make our community accessible to a "wider audience"
23:22 -!- robinld [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##altslashdot
23:22 < meisterister> With all of those pictures and fluff? Not likely.
23:22 -!- joj [~joj@unaffiliated/joj] has quit [Quit: Exeo.]
23:22 < Twike> Yea, drive away users and deal with less load. Meisterister, do not underestimate the power of shiny pictures and less reading to the masses.
23:22 < meisterister> Fair enough.
23:22 < tphr> the 10th anniversary party had the most awesome mix of people
23:22 < PrestonL> 10th anniversary party?
23:22 < tphr> dunno if anyone showed up at the 15th anniversaries
23:23 < tphr> yeah. when Malda and Bates were still running it
23:24 < tphr> http://slashdot.org/anniversary.pl?view_id=1
23:25 < meisterister> That sounds awesome!
23:25 -!- rdavis [~robind@fsh-cpe-52-155.resnet.ucsc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:25 < PrestonL> wow, kathleen has a low uid
23:25 < meisterister> Too bad I can't travel back to 2007...
23:25 < PrestonL> remember when taco proposed to her?
23:25 < PrestonL> I wonder who drives the Slashdot PT Cruiser
23:26 < benDos> Aside from the comments being harder to read, it didn't seem too bad
23:26 < pav5088> Can anyone else ever serve our needs as a community, and do it profitably? Not sure we can either (at least not quickly), but it's certainly interesting to think about.
23:26 < benDos> then i disabled adblock
23:26 < benDos> reddit?
23:26 < PrestonL> benDos: DO NOT SPEAK GOOD THINGS OF BETA
23:26 < benDos> I've been so confused, por que?
23:27 < Nightbrood> well the comments kinda make the site.. there is a reason no one ever RTFA
23:27 < CoolHnd30> Let Perens get technocrat.net going again..
23:27 < benDos> PrestonL: Caps means serious on irc?
23:27 < PrestonL> yes ;)
23:27 < tphr> kuro5hin.org technically looks like it would work, but the subject matter on there now is a load of carap
23:27 < benDos> I thought that was a geocities thing
23:27 < benDos> So why not reddit?
23:27 < meisterister> To bring some perspective on why beta is terrible: http://slashdot.org/topic/datacenter/filezilla-evil-twin-steals-ftp-logins/
23:28 < tphr> reddit comments system is terrible
23:28 < PrestonL> reddit is horrible
23:28 < PrestonL> yes
23:28 < PrestonL> we need the slashdot moderation / meta moderation system
23:28 < benDos> Lack of meta moderation?
23:28 -!- h0bbl3s [~chatzilla@108-75-70-169.lightspeed.chrlnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##altslashdot
23:28 < PrestonL> it is what makes slashdot unique
23:28 < Nightbrood> yes, I poked around on Reddit and it is very bad
23:28 -!- justinharris1986 [472f3808@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.47.56.8] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:28 < PrestonL> upvote / downvote is horrible
23:28 < PrestonL> garbage
23:28 < PrestonL> reddit is horrible
23:28 < PrestonL> trash
23:28 < PrestonL> garbage
23:28 < PrestonL> shit from nowhere
23:28 < meisterister> And to think, they sprung beta right when I was going to register...
23:28 < benDos> Meta moderation being the big thing?
23:28 < Nightbrood> the moderation and meta moderation system is one thing that slashdot really got right
23:28 < tphr> isnt slash mostly perl
23:28 < PrestonL> yes
23:28 < benDos> meisterister: registering is for noobs
23:28 < PrestonL> yes
23:29 < meisterister> Fine then.
23:29 < benDos> You don't want people to think you write javascript or some shit
23:29 < meisterister> I wanted to get in on all of this meta moderation...
23:29 < Nightbrood> what? real men post as AC?
23:29 < pav5088> ummm... question - they don't have a patent on aspects of their moderation system do they?
23:29 < meisterister> Hmmm.
23:29 < tphr> that would be ironic
23:29 < benDos> When i see a low UID i know i'm bound to see some cobol reference lost on my 25 year old ass
23:29 < meisterister> I think that AC should be regarded as a full-fledged user on the new slashdot.
23:30 < tphr> get yourself down to the DATA DIVISION right now and studyeth
23:30 < benDos> So that's a bad thing about beta
23:30 < meisterister> (Ie. AltSlashdot.)
23:30 < benDos> Fuck that tphr I can lisp with the best of them
23:30 < benDos> I'm not coboling
23:30 < pav5088> benDos, you just need to look through the source of one Cobol program and you'll suddenly "get" everything
23:30 < Cactus> I wasnt really paying attn earlier - What's the average age here, according the ASL?
23:30 < benDos> You're describing an anyerism
23:30 < tphr> actually.. maybe the PHBs at DICE could be convinced the Beta needs to be rewritten in CoBOL
23:31 < PrestonL> 27/m/us
23:31 < tphr> that would put it on ice for a long time
23:31 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@216.161.165.96] has joined ##altslashdot
23:31 < benDos> 25/m/seattle
23:31 < PrestonL> just had a birthday -- getting closer to 30 -_-
23:31 < Nightbrood> man... if you guys aren't coding in assembly then this must be a bunch of newbs :P
23:31 < meisterister> AAAAAH! I JUST TRIED THE BETA.
23:31 < tphr> seems to be around 30
23:31 < benDos> I have compilers to write my assembly for me maaang
23:31 < Cactus> Ahh
23:31 < benDos> Though being able to objdump random binaries is useful i guess
23:31 * pav5088 turns a fire extinguisher on meisterister
23:31 < Cactus> 29/m/Seattle
23:32 < meisterister> Whew, thanks.
23:32 < PrestonL> I'm going to install Slashcode on a VM and make it available
23:32 < PrestonL> since nobody can seem to make it work
23:32 < benDos> Ohshi Cactus
23:32 < Landon> Nightbrood: does verilog count?
23:32 < Nightbrood> as long as you don't load it with the OMG Ponies! theme we should be good
23:32 * Landon is doing that at this very moment
23:32 < benDos> VDHL4LYF
23:32 < Cactus> benDos: Not quite Seattle, a lil north in Bothell.
23:33 < Nightbrood> I think Verilog will suffice
23:33 < benDos> Oh neat, my wife used to work up there
23:33 < benDos> seemed like a cool area
23:33 < meisterister> Real men design their logic by hand... uphll both ways.
23:33 < benDos> I'm on Mercer Island
23:33 < meisterister> With Vacuum tubes.
23:33 < PrestonL> Landon: you got it running?
23:33 < Cactus> Ooh, fancy you.
23:33 < benDos> Though I don't own a house on it, which i feel obligated to say
23:33 < Cactus> haha
23:33 < Landon> PrestonL: sure, I have slashcode running on my FPGA :)
23:33 < benDos> new to the area and landed here, moving in a bit
23:34 < benDos> But i work downtown so my commute is ballerpants
23:34 * Landon not involved with getting slaschcode running
23:34 < PrestonL> I thought you were turning on the omg ponies theme
23:34 < PrestonL> lol
23:34 < Cactus> Lucky enough to have a 10-15min walk to work.
23:34 -Subsentient:##altslashdot- smells something cheesy
23:34 < benDos> Cactus: When i was looking for work everything in bothell was either web or .net-weby stuff
23:35 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@216.161.165.96] has left ##altslashdot []
23:35 < benDos> wait, do windows hackers use /. too?
23:35 -!- huffyuv [50d5cbe8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.213.203.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
23:35 < Cactus> Sure. haven't seen the Linux hate in the comments?
23:36 < benDos> I figured they were from bsdsnobs
23:36 < benDos> Maybe some p9 dudes
23:36 < tphr> Anyone set up a whitehouse.gov petition to ask the President to officially fuck the beta?
23:36 < Nightbrood> lol
23:37 < Cactus> Well, there is that too. I think with BSDs it tends to devolve in to license wars though
23:37 < meisterister> That would be hilarious.
23:37 < benDos> Make it happen tphr
23:37 < tphr> ha.
23:37 < PrestonL> zomg so much to do so little time
23:37 < meisterister> Watch it actually work.
23:37 < PrestonL> tphr: yes
23:37 < PrestonL> He'd be like, "Even though I'm a Democrat, I believe they should have control over their own business."
23:37 < Cactus> Then we can submit an article in which Obama personally condems the actions of Dice Holdings.
23:37 < benDos> What if you posted Flip The Beta, sfw petitions do better aye?
23:38 < meisterister> <Insert political flamewar here>
23:38 * PrestonL sets the flamebait on fire
23:38 < meisterister> Yay!
23:38 < PrestonL> I need a 72 hour workday
23:39 < benDos> So, Sochi
23:39 < benDos> Sounds pretty terrible
23:39 -!- CQ_ [~chatzilla@p57AE9257.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined ##altslashdot
23:39 < Cactus> Become an EMT
23:39 < Nightbrood> If we want a political flame war, lets get the site up and then make the inagural post on Global Warming or something else...
23:39 < benDos> though i think the opening ceremony is on now
23:39 < PrestonL> I'm a Volunteer Firefighter/First Responder, does that count?
23:39 < tphr> Fuck the Beta would be a classic Simpsons gag
23:40 < meisterister> The inagural post should be a rant about the beta...
23:40 < PrestonL> Sochi is great, it's the western propaganda trying to make Russia look bad.
23:40 < tphr> a new t0shift for comic book guy
23:40 < pav5088> Has anyone seen Haxslash? https://github.com/lottadot/haxlash
23:40 < benDos> PrestonL: really?
23:40 < pav5088> seems to be a slashcode fork (I THINK)
23:40 < PrestonL> benDos: No idea
23:40 < pav5088> I see a commit from 2011... perhaps it's worse than the beta... *shrugs* but
23:40 < PrestonL> but it sounds cool
23:41 < PrestonL> I saw a funny meme with Putin
23:41 -!- CQ [~chatzilla@p57AE8BEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
23:41 < benDos> haxlash doesn't even use mongodb
23:41 < PrestonL> it said something like, "I don't always have four years to prepare for the olympics -- but when I do, I don't"
23:41 -!- CQ_ is now known as CQ
23:41 -!- tepples [~tepples@c-98-226-71-46.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined ##altslashdot
23:41 < benDos> If there's going to be a /. successor, I think we can all agree it should run on heroku
23:41 < tepples> ewww... spam
23:41 < meisterister> The beta's error message is flipping, "Shazbot! We ran into some trouble getting the comments.
23:42 < meisterister> Try again... na-nu, na-nu!"
23:42 < Cactus> Yeah
23:42 < meisterister> What is wrong with the UI designers?
23:42 < Cactus> Head trauma?
23:42 < meisterister> Now I finally fully completely understand all of the hatred. Long live AltSlashDot!
23:42 < benDos> At least beta doesn't have as many gradients as osx?
23:42 < PrestonL> The King is Dead. Long Live the King!
23:43 < tepples> but the planning wiki for alt/. is getting spammed
23:43 < PrestonL> OS X is losing a lot of the gradients.
23:43 < benDos> BUT THA'TS THE BEST PART
23:43 * PrestonL is on Mac OS X with mIRC running in VM Ware Unity
23:43 < meisterister> The King is Dead! Screw his demented offspring!
23:43 < tepples> someone needs to put in a QuestyCaptcha with one question and an obvious answer
23:43 < Nightbrood> don't say that Preston, I got corrected by one of our loveable pedants today
23:43 < Nightbrood> unless the new kick is AltSlashdot
23:43 < benDos> i5 is a real ui
23:43 < Nightbrood> then long live the king indeed
23:43 < PrestonL> Watch Barrabas be an agent for Dice.
23:43 < Cactus> Spammed where?
23:44 < PrestonL> He's probably just running a conspiracy against us all
23:44 < benDos> Anyone running regex bots here?
23:44 < tepples> look at the spam http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges
23:44 < benDos> That's a big part of making ##altslashdot better.
23:44 <@Barrabas> Oh no! He's soehow stumbled onto my evilplan! Call the assassins!
23:44 < benDos> s/(better)/way \1/
23:44 < benDos> booo
23:44 * PrestonL goes into hiding
23:44 < PrestonL> I remember getting a death threat
23:44 < PrestonL> and everyone here wanting me to move my desk away from the window
23:44 < PrestonL> in case someone wanted to shoot me through it
23:45 < tepples> someone needs to install a lameness filter extension on the wiki https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:AbuseFilter
23:45 < benDos> PrestonL: are you an abortion dr?
23:45 < Cactus> damnit
23:45 < benDos> Cause that's a thing, saw it on the internet
23:45 < Nightbrood> lol... I still have the black vans from the Skinny Puppy raid if we need to reeducate someone Barrabas
23:45 < PrestonL> Nope, just a businessman/software guy, haha.
23:45 < PrestonL> I pissed off an attorney in court and I guess she was literally ready to kill me after I almost got her disbarred haha
23:45 < benDos> cryptocurrency ponzi?
23:45 < PrestonL> Found dead animals and shit on our doorsteps.
23:45 < benDos> haha
23:46 < Cactus> Ok guys. Family is home, gots to see the kids. You fellas have a good one.
23:46 < PrestonL> We will
23:46 < benDos> 'night
23:46 < Cactus> I'll sweep up the wiki tomorrow if someone hasb't gotten to it by then.
23:46 < Cactus> Night
23:46 < benDos> wait a second
23:46 -!- Cactus [3287c176@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.135.193.118] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
23:46 < PrestonL> Cactus local time was 20:46
23:46 < benDos> the new facebook feed thing where people get likes are more influencial etc
23:46 < benDos> dude, fb is the new /.
23:47 < meisterister> Whaaaat?
23:47 < PrestonL> that would be 8PM
23:47 < tepples> what's a fb?
23:47 < PrestonL> Does he live in the damn ocean or something?
23:47 < meisterister> Is it a kind of STD?
23:47 < PrestonL> or need to fix DST setting haha
23:47 < PrestonL> FaceSpace is evil
23:47 < tepples> isn't facebook the myspace clone for college kids?
23:47 < meisterister> Pretty sure.
23:47 < robinld> uh hardly a clone
23:47 < Nightbrood> no, its for parents and teh elderly now
23:48 < robinld> also twitter is the new fb so there
23:48 < tepples> I thought twitter was a notorious sockpuppeteer
23:48 < benDos> It's for advertisers and narssists
23:48 < tepples> http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377
23:49 < tepples> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=612669&cid=24174623
23:49 < meisterister> Their new beta message at the top of classic is, "WE HEAR YOU We did tell you we wanted feedback. Here's our response." Seems a bit rude of them.
23:49 < PrestonL> http://i.imgur.com/b3ckiyp.jpg
23:50 < PrestonL> We need an inside man
23:50 < PrestonL> to get us a database dump
23:50 < PrestonL> of Slashdot
23:50 < meisterister> That would be some interesting data.
23:50 < robinld> yeah a db dump would be hot action
23:50 < robinld> using the rss feeds would be a pain
23:50 < meisterister> I wonder how much storage it would take>
23:51 < tepples> you could spider Slashdot and add a feature to the new site that searches all comments posted to archived Slashdot discussions
23:51 < robinld> eh certainly less than 1 tb
23:51 < robinld> tepples: that is a lot more work than just having a db dump
23:51 < benDos> If it fits on a single drive it isn't a lot of data
23:51 < tepples> more work, but still doable
23:51 < benDos> robinld: wut
23:51 < robinld> anything's possible with enough work
23:51 < tepples> if archive team could do it
23:52 <@Barrabas> I actually have a spider that does that - searches all slashdot stories.
23:52 <@Barrabas> I made it for a different reason years ago.
23:52 <@Barrabas> I don't think poaching content from slashdot is a good idea for AltSlashdot, though
23:52 < benDos> are you beautifulsouping or does /. have a decent api?
23:52 < Nightbrood> I agree
23:52 < Nightbrood> it is more trouble than it is worth
23:52 < benDos> +1
23:53 < tepples> beautiful soup? just use html5lib
23:53 < meisterister> I think that it would be interesting just to have a backup for historical preservation. Who knows what they'll do after te beta...
23:53 < robinld> or better idea
23:53 < robinld> use the rss feeds
23:53 < tepples> it's not poaching if you're just building a search engine
23:53 <@Barrabas> No - it just sent the HTTP request and parsed the resuts. It fllowed the"Next/Previou" links on the article page. I forget what it was for - something AI related.
23:53 < benDos> tepples: didn't that used to suck for real spidering?
23:53 < Nightbrood> yeah, I had a conversation on that on /. today. My take is that we really must be prepared to lose that history and make a clean break
23:54 < benDos> i used it a while ago and it kept choking when beautiful soup was happy
23:54 < tepples> unless, of course, you're one of those crazed copyright owners like Perfect 10 who think a search engine infringes when it displays snippets and thumbnails
23:54 <@Barrabas> I found out that it only went back about 2,000 articles at the time. When they did their last upgrade, they dumped *all* the older stuff completely. Past something like 2009 there's nothing.
23:54 <@Barrabas> (This may have changed, but I doubt it.)
23:54 < Nightbrood> yep you are correct
23:54 < benDos> internet archive?
23:54 < Nightbrood> I lost all my comment prior to 2009
23:55 < tepples> if everything prior to 2009 is deleted then what is this? http://slashdot.org/~SockDisclosure/journal/214377
23:55 < benDos> and you didn't found alt/, then?
23:55 < Nightbrood> journals may be stored differently than the posts
23:55 < PrestonL> http://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-ipod
23:55 < PrestonL> Old articles are still there.
23:56 < Nightbrood> my old posts aren't attached to my UID though
23:56 < Nightbrood> past 2009
23:56 < meisterister> PresonL: True, as I've been reading Slashdot from 1998 for historical perspective.
23:56 <@Barrabas> I didn't search journals, only articles.
23:56 < meisterister> However, if they really want to rebrand Slashdot, why bother with the storage.
23:56 <@Barrabas> I navigated to the last (oldest) article just to be sure, and there was no "prev"link.
23:57 < tepples> before the D2 era, I think Slashdot used to actually delete the old comments from its database when archiving a discussion.
23:57 < benDos> does /. ever disable comments on old articles?
23:58 * benDos is a few year lurker
23:58 < tepples> it routinely disables comments after 14 days
23:58 < benDos> any particular reason?
23:59 < tepples> at first it was to keep db size down, I guess, but then a lot of blogs close old articles' comment sections to keep people from necroposting linkspam to old articles
23:59 < meisterister> Probably for historical preservation.
--- Day changed Fri Feb 07 2014
00:00 < Nightbrood> yep. It would be annoying to see a 2010 discussion suddenly fill up with a bunch of posts from 2014.
00:00 < benDos> good thing you can filter and sort the postgs?
00:00 < benDos> posts*
00:01 < acposter> whats up everyone
00:01 < benDos> hate'n on beta.
00:01 < acposter> me too
00:01 < Nightbrood> lol... yes I need to get some sleep so I can be bright eyed for another day of beta hatin' tomorrow :P
00:02 < acposter> i miss the good ol days
00:02 < Nightbrood> I must say I was really impressed by the veracity of the response and how quickly it took hold... made me actually go dig up my 4 digit UID :P
00:02 < tepples> any idea who's the admin on altslashdot.org?
00:02 < meisterister> Slashdot looked really nice around 2000...
00:02 < Nightbrood> Barrabas
00:03 < acposter> it did :(
00:03 < PrestonL> everything in 2000 was nice
00:03 < R-TypeEman> i miss the days of pages that didnt always render properly
00:03 < meisterister> I miss the old days of pages that could render on a Pentium MMX...
00:03 < Nightbrood> I miss IE6
00:03 <@Barrabas> Yes?
00:03 < benDos> OMG DAY 14.4
00:03 < tepples> There's a spam problem.
00:03 < benDos> DAT 14.4
00:03 <@Barrabas> Oh - sorry. I'm the admin.
00:04 < PrestonL> IE 6 wasn't until 2001
00:04 < meisterister> I miss Netscape...
00:04 < Nightbrood> ah the good ol days when I referred to it as Nutscrape :P
00:04 -!- earthnative [~nemo@59.167.208.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:04 < meisterister> Heh.
00:04 < PrestonL> I still can't believe they kept IE 6 stagnant for so long,
00:04 -!- earthnative [~nemo@59.167.208.146] has joined ##altslashdot
00:04 < benDos> Why can't i use beta in lynx, this is bullshit
00:04 < PrestonL> until FF gave them competition.
00:04 < acposter> too much javascript is why
00:04 < Nightbrood> even worse was how long IE6 was used in corporate
00:05 < tepples> two more months until IE 6 dies for realsies
00:05 < meisterister> Why does everything have to be client-side now?
00:05 < Nightbrood> my company didn't migrate from IE6 until 2012 or something stupid like that
00:05 < meisterister> Ouch.
00:05 < benDos> meisterister: yeah why can't I RDP to slashdot
00:05 < tepples> meister: because WebGL and Stream API aren't implemented
00:05 < PrestonL> IE Marketshare: IE 6 4.4% - IE 7 2.14% - IE 8 20.6% - IE 9 9.0% - IE 10 11.1% - IE 11 10.4%
00:05 < PrestonL> Why can't they keep their users upgraded?!
00:05 < benDos> PrestonL: because upgrading requires user action
00:05 < tepples> because Microsoft only ports IE to Windows versions that are in mainstream support
00:05 < benDos> chrome has the right idea
00:06 < Nightbrood> lol.. well if you want the browser upgrade you need a new OS of course...
00:06 < tepples> Current Windows versions get upgrades through Windows Update, but versions in extended support only get security updates
00:06 < benDos> What percentage of windows installs ever talk to a windows update server?
00:06 < acposter> chrome update was some engineering for sure
00:06 < acposter> i read bout it sometime ago
00:06 < tepples> Windows XP is stuck on IE 8 and Windows Vista is stuck on IE 9
00:06 < benDos> Pretty low outside of the us...
00:07 < Nightbrood> yep, even our corporate install is a bit slower in getting patches for Win7 than Win Update because they run their own updater
00:07 < meisterister> Of course, it's always fun when an update breaks some part of windows... *Cough windows 8.1 Cough*
00:07 < tepples> I plan to make an HTTPS site that I run intentionally incompatible with IE/XP after the extended support ends because HTTPS to an insecure OS isn't secure
00:07 < acposter> windows is always every other
00:07 < benDos> what happened with 8.1?
00:08 < meisterister> It's crap.
00:08 < benDos> I just told a family member to grab it
00:08 < benDos> bleh'
00:08 < Nightbrood> Windows 8.1 is a paradigm shift that will unify the desktop, phone, and tablet... whats not to like!
00:08 < meisterister> Of course, I'm using mint right now...
00:08 < tepples> Windows 8.x is far less crap once you install Classic Shell
00:08 < Nightbrood> ;)
00:08 < acposter> 95 good, 98 fail, 98 se good, me fail, xp good, vista fail, 7 good, 8 fail
00:08 < tepples> and Ubuntu is far less crap once you install xfce
00:08 < meisterister> tepples: That's true.
00:08 < acposter> they always do every other
00:08 < meisterister> Tepples: That's true for the second time.
00:08 < benDos> gnome here
00:08 < meisterister> acposter: But I like Vista, you insensitive clod...
00:09 < benDos> Not like I use my wm for much beyond starting a terminal and a browser
00:09 < acposter> lol
00:09 < tepples> Vista, 7, and 8+Classic Shell essentially operate the same
00:09 < meisterister> True.
00:09 < Nightbrood> so you are one of THOSE people meister...
00:09 < meisterister> What?
00:09 < benDos> Nightbrood: you can tab complete usernames
00:09 < benDos> wth are you doing
00:09 < Nightbrood> lol... I haven't used IRC in 13 years :P
00:09 < meisterister> Wait, how?
00:10 < Nightbrood> I have to relearn everything I forgot
00:10 < meisterister> I've never used IRC before, so please be merciful.
00:10 < tepples> XChat supports tab completion; some other clients might not
00:10 < benDos> tepples: what client?
00:10 < meisterister> Ah. I'm using ircii.
00:10 < benDos> it's be a odd one
00:10 < tepples> try typing tepp and pressing tab
00:10 < benDos> irssi has it out of the box
00:10 < tepples> I'm using XChat on xubuntu 12.04 LTS
00:10 < benDos> even web chat
00:10 < meisterister> What?
00:10 < Nightbrood> yep tab autocompletes... useful function that
00:10 < benDos> xchat too
00:10 < meisterister> Nevermind.
00:10 < acposter> i use irccloud
00:10 < robinld> i'm a big fan of ctrl+r myself
00:11 < benDos> ctrl+r is badass
00:11 < robinld> oh we're not talking about bash ignore me
00:11 < acposter> but before id use textual on mac or epic5 for cl
00:12 < acposter> irccloud is my favorite now
00:12 < meisterister> This is why I love the internet sometimes: we just went from Windows Vista to IRC clients without skipping a beat.
00:12 < tepples> Internet ADHD http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WikiWalk
00:12 < benDos> meisterister: you need new irl friends
00:13 < meisterister> Fine then.
00:13 * benDos maybe isn't one to talk ;)
00:13 < benDos> That's an emoticon
00:13 < benDos> It's like a </sarcasism>
00:13 < tepples> another is :p for "tongue in cheek"
00:13 < meisterister> My god.
00:14 < Nightbrood> lol probably everyone in this channel are living in glass houses at the moment
00:14 < benDos> Can ##altslashdot have emoji?
00:14 < tepples> let me check
00:14 < meisterister> I'm text-only so that would be interesting.
00:14 < tphr> they seem to have given up posting stories for the night
00:14 < benDos> Nightbrood: I'm amused by the loud distain for beta
00:14 < meisterister> It really sucks.
00:14 < benDos> i can still click on classic and give zero shits
00:14 < tepples> U+1F4A9 💩
00:15 < benDos> Maybe i'll need to greasemonkey beta - ohnoes
00:15 < tepples> there's insinuation from admins that classic will disappear in a few months, just as the cheese disappeared from Cheese Station C in "Who Moved My Cheese?"
00:15 < meisterister> tepples: What a lovely picture of diamonds, unicode, and a filled in box. You have changed my life...
00:15 < acposter> what do u mean glass house
00:15 < benDos> tepples: yup
00:15 < meisterister> Maybe we can get some of the old admins on AltSlashdot.
00:15 < benDos> thus my greasemonkey comment
00:15 < tepples> "people living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", I guess
00:16 < Nightbrood> people in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks... meaning I would question the number of IRL friends of everyone in this channel ;)
00:16 < meisterister> Ah.
00:16 < meisterister> That makes sense now.
00:16 < acposter> oh
00:16 < benDos> s/in this channel/on irc/
00:16 < tepples> I have a disease that makes it hard for me to find IRL friends. That and I don't own a car.
00:16 < acposter> ive got a few i dont desire anymore
00:16 < Nightbrood> well not owning a car is a pretty serious disease
00:17 < benDos> Depends where you live
00:17 < Nightbrood> I live in flyover country... it is a disease
00:17 < Nightbrood> at least here
00:17 < benDos> Yup
00:17 < benDos> Might as well not have legs
00:17 < benDos> I'll stop poking you guys, go have fun hating on beta
00:17 -!- benDos [ae3d95d7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.174.61.149.215] has left ##altslashdot []
00:18 < meisterister> Stupid beta.
00:20 < tepples> beta made the vcr legal
00:20 < tepples> legal vcrs made tivo legal
00:20 < Nightbrood> I thought that was the famouse cinemax case
00:20 < tepples> betamax case
00:20 < tepples> Sony v. Universal
00:20 < Nightbrood> I know, I kid :)
00:21 < tepples> not have legs? like that's even a problem
00:21 < meisterister> It tends to be.
00:21 < Nightbrood> I am a bit ADD... the implicit Max led me to think of Cinemax :P
00:21 < tepples> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SItnQx7UwK4
00:22 < tepples> you don't need legs to swing like Spider-Man https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnt1ME6fU5Y
00:23 -!- poutine [poutine@the.infamous.poutine.pw] has joined ##altslashdot
00:23 < meisterister> Hello
00:24 < meisterister> tepples: You just gave me an excuse to try out youtube on this maching.
00:24 < meisterister> (I've been screwing around and underclocked it to 500 MHz.
00:26 -!- Nightbrood [~Nightbroo@cpe-184-58-1-74.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
00:26 < poutine> I need a little assistance demodulating a 2FSK signal, I have a Ettus USRP B210, a few RTLSDR sticks, and a couple of TI CC1111EMK development kits which supposedly can do it in hw. One problematic factor is that published deviations don't match up, and I'm also unsure of baud rate. Does anyone have any recommendations on doing this?
00:26 < meisterister> Wait, what?
00:28 < poutine> I meant, hehe farts are funny
00:29 < acposter> why does your name sound familiar
00:29 < tepples> need an excuse to try webm playback to see if that's more efficient than youtube? http://pics.pineight.com/nes/wbb/130312_progress.webm
00:29 < meisterister> Wait a minute, now I'm intrigued...
00:30 < meisterister> tepples: Interesting thing is that youtube runs perfectly fine because it's using my GPU to accelerate itself.
00:31 < acposter> you mean flash on youtube
00:31 < meisterister> Yeah.
00:31 < acposter> ?
00:31 < meisterister> That.
00:31 < poutine> Well I'm able to use the rfcat project with the CC1111EMK to generate a 2FSK signal, and the points appear to match up in gqrx, they match up in frequency, baud rate is an unknown but I've tried several common values, and the CC1111EMK just can't seem to decode it
00:31 < acposter> i think it depends on what machine the flash is running
00:31 < poutine> additionally, there's not a lot of help with gnuradio blocks that I'm seeing
00:31 < tepples> and on what OS
00:31 < acposter> flash runs terrible on macs
00:31 -!- brian_1 [~brian@blazar.bri1.com] has joined ##altslashdot
00:31 < tepples> even Macs running Windows in Boot Camp?
00:32 < meisterister> acposter: True.
00:32 < acposter> it's really frustrating when you play the same video on a mac laptop
00:32 < meisterister> Do mac laptops still use discrete graphics?
00:32 < tepples> that only means Adobe can't code for $#!+
00:32 < acposter> and as time goes on it bogs shit down... but it's the same fucking quality video
00:33 < acposter> the pro models use both and switch
00:33 -!- brian_1 [~brian@blazar.bri1.com] has quit [Client Quit]
00:33 < acposter> im not sure what the retinas do
00:33 < acposter> mine has discreet and onboard
00:33 < poutine> Has anyone considered that dice holdings is merely dumping the slashdot crowd and doesn't really care about the technical expertise? You're all just not the target audience for what they want, and they think volume > quality
00:33 < acposter> yea
00:33 < meisterister> poutine: Makes sense from their POV.
00:34 < meisterister> Of course, I hope that AltSlash is able to fix all of that.
00:34 < acposter> they're trying to appeal to everyone, the lowest common denominator
00:34 < acposter> im not sure it will :(
00:35 < pav5088> poutine, and we don't have our own raft... if Facebook pissed everyone off there's Diaspora, if Google does there are the other federated search engines... but Slashdot? Well, I guess we have 12yr old slashcode....
00:35 < meisterister> How many people really know what slashdot is? There's no way that it would gain marketshare from such a move.
00:35 < robinld> yeah sucks that slashcode is so out of date
00:35 < robinld> i wonder what all features will be lost
00:35 < pav5088> ...and even that requires a pretty damned big infrastructure rather than a federated decentralised architecture
00:35 < meisterister> I think it would be fun to be able to load slashdot on my Powermac.
00:36 < meisterister> How quickly would it render?
00:36 < poutine> bro I could totally replicate classic slashdot in a 4 line ruby on rails app delivered through a docker installation packaged in a vagrant vm, slashdotception
00:36 < acposter> lol
00:36 < Landon> bro do you even sinatra
00:37 < poutine> clearly the problem is that nobody thought to use haskell
00:37 < acposter> i think u could have all classic functionality if you grabbed a framework like yii or something
00:37 <@Barrabas> Starting from this older version of SlashCode may be a blessing in disguise.
00:37 < Landon> poutine spends too much time on ycombinator
00:37 <@Barrabas> It may not have a lot of the advanced features that people hate...
00:37 < acposter> i think slashcode at the time was pioneering something but now to build the same functionality you dont really need it
00:37 < acposter> just my guess im no expert
00:37 < poutine> afaik slashcode was in perl eh
00:37 < meisterister> All AltSlashdot needs to do not to piss anyone off is NOT HIRE UI DESIGNERS.
00:37 < Landon> right, might be easier to just do a rails/django app
00:38 < poutine> I'm not sure about rails/django
00:38 < Landon> I'd almost bet it'd be easier to scale up with that than trying to replicate whatever hairy success they had scaling up slashcode
00:38 < acposter> thatd be kinda unclassic tho haha
00:38 < poutine> perfect nodejs use case
00:39 < Landon> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193596
00:40 < poutine> agree with person saying it'd be stupid to keep going with perl
00:40 < acposter> model your data, create the crud, replicate classic slashdot in a template
00:41 < acposter> use existing user libraries n such
00:41 -!- Subsentient [~WhiteRat@unaffiliated/subsen] has quit [Quit: Derp.]
00:41 < acposter> and there ya go
00:43 < acposter> i guess what i see the obstacle is not a site like slashdot just kind of like
00:43 < acposter> back in the good ol days there was sco and linux was starting to shine and all that, and slashdot was first to the game
00:43 < acposter> like all those factors came together
00:44 < meisterister> That's true, but slashdot can still offer a lot of good tech news.
00:44 < acposter> yea
00:44 < meisterister> And the discussion is freakin awesome.
00:44 < acposter> and the trolling too haha
00:45 < meisterister> True.
00:45 < acposter> dupes, all that
00:45 < acposter> crazy gnaa
00:45 -!- pr0ntab [~pr0ntab@pool-173-66-217-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##altslashdot
00:45 -!- robinld [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:45 -!- pr0ntab [~pr0ntab@pool-173-66-217-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit]
00:46 -!- nanotube [~nanotube@unaffiliated/nanotube] has joined ##altslashdot
00:46 -!- pr0ntab [~pr0ntab@pool-173-66-217-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##altslashdot
00:47 < pav5088> Has anyone looked into posting a history?
00:47 < meisterister> Of slashdot?
00:47 < pr0ntab> hi... isn't there a few of those around?
00:47 < pav5088> heheh... would be useful...
00:47 < Landon> the wikipedia one was decent last I checked... severla years ago
00:47 < meisterister> Especially to people like me who were sucked into it only four months ago...
00:48 < earthnative> http://toastytech.com/files/chipsndips.html <-- HISTORY! ;)
00:48 < pav5088> just of the channel here... some interesting things have been discussed and it would be useful to go back and read it for new people in channel
00:48 < meisterister> Ahh, toastytech.
00:48 * nanotube has been a slashdot AC for many years.
00:50 -!- Cruian [~Thunderbi@fl-208-163-136-21.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##altslashdot
00:50 < meisterister> Hello!
00:50 -!- robinld [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##altslashdot
00:50 < meisterister> Hello Again!
00:51 < pr0ntab> I've been on it since 98
00:51 < pav5088> I thought I was an AC for ages before I joined, but I'm an early 4 dig so perhaps I misremembered... :-/
00:51 < meisterister> I was 1...
00:51 < pr0ntab> lurked, then got a 100,000ish uid
00:51 < nanotube> i've been ACing since 2001ish.
00:51 < pr0ntab> nice
00:51 < tepples> I have two UIDs, one in the 120Ks and my current one in the ~700Ks
00:51 < meisterister> Are there still any triple-digit UIDs around?
00:51 < pr0ntab> I have 3
00:52 * earthnative is a 4digit
00:52 * pr0ntab nods approvingly
00:52 < tepples> I believe Jeremiah Cornelius is a low uid
00:52 < tepples> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760859&cid=46175889
00:52 < meisterister> My god.
00:52 < earthnative> (and 7 digit ICQ, and 3 digit wikipedia UID)
00:53 < tepples> my wikipedia UID is 1
00:53 < tepples> though I'm not even an admin, let alone a bureaucrat
00:53 < meisterister> I think that more websites should do UIDs.
00:53 < tepples> perhaps a sequential identifier makes things easier to scrape abusively
00:54 < earthnative> tepples: how'd you manage that? I assumed the first few dozen (at least) wiki UIDs would have been chewed up in internal testing
00:54 < tepples> when it switched to its second or third phase software, editing was shut down, and I kept refreshing the create account phase
00:54 < tepples> *create account page
00:54 < earthnative> nice timing
00:54 < meisterister> Would it make sense for AltSlashdot to sell UIDs?
00:54 < meisterister> For fundraising.
00:54 < tepples> or maybe sell pixel ads
00:55 < earthnative> yeah, my very very first wikipedia edits were lost in the changed before mediawikia finally won out
00:55 < pr0ntab> selling UIDs is an interesting way to drum up initial money
00:55 < robinld> yeah hadn't considered that but it also compromises the whole uid thing
00:55 < pr0ntab> lots of sites have sequential uids that do not get you to a user through any normal URL
00:55 < meisterister> As in, they would prevent registration for a while and sell UIDs in certain ranges.
00:56 < pr0ntab> they're shown next to person's name in their profile, and maybe you can do a search on it once you're authenticated
00:56 < poutine> I like the selling UID idea, also, let's change the commenting system to use up entirely too much whitespace, and let's broaden the audience and get rid of UID display, etc
00:56 < meisterister> Like 1 Digit UID is crazy expensive.
00:56 < meisterister> 2 digit is 1/10 1 digit
00:56 < robinld> oh i see what you're saying
00:56 < meisterister> 3 digit is 1/10 that, etc, until we have enough funding.
00:56 < robinld> just for the initial launch
00:56 < pr0ntab> kickstarter tiers
00:56 < meisterister> Yeah.
00:56 < meisterister> Also that.
00:56 < poutine> Instead of an article, let's just have an ad there too, that's revenue baby
00:56 < pav5088> Perhaps that was why they were hiding the UIDs in beta... if you want to encourage new users you probably don't want that.
00:57 < robinld> yeah well have to pay server fees somehow : /
00:57 < poutine> you should host in theo de raadt's basement
00:57 < pav5088> robinld, unless there's a federated solution.... *sighs* which there doesn't seem to be
00:57 < tepples> usenet is the federated solution
00:57 < pr0ntab> I was thinking about how some people who didn't get why people were up in arms about the new site thought that "it looked okay"
00:58 -!- tsmith [~Ted@pdpc/supporter/professional/hopeseekr] has joined ##altslashdot
00:58 < tepples> each server is an HTTP frontend to an NNTP server, and the posts propagate through NNTP
00:58 < pr0ntab> I proposed this model for 4chan back in the day
00:58 < robinld> yeah it would be cool
00:58 < robinld> it would be a very cool project
00:58 < pr0ntab> when there was like... 50 different imageboard sites
00:58 < robinld> maybe if I go back to grad school
00:58 < poutine> Let's just use gopher for slashdigg v2
00:58 < pr0ntab> NNTP between web servers for
00:58 < tsmith> Hey I am a senior PHP developer. Here is my career page: http://www.phpexperts.pro/ I will do everything I can to help make altslash work. Put me to work.
00:58 < robinld> federated moderatd comment/article system
00:58 < pav5088> tepples, I forget how nntp comments work... do they nest well if you don't have a Re:
00:58 < pr0ntab> It relies on random nonces and digests to link
00:59 < earthnative> nntp messages refer back to previous messages by message-ID, same as email
00:59 < pr0ntab> they use like standard MIME headers, right?
00:59 < tsmith> Yeah
00:59 < tepples> I remember the days of alt.aol-sucks
00:59 * earthnative reads nntp messages in unpatched mutt. :)
00:59 < tsmith> NNTP uses standard mime, usually encoded tho w/ various binary-to-ascii mechanism.
00:59 < poutine> tsmith, I doubt your credentials as a PHP programmer
00:59 < robinld> by the time I could read usenet was basically dead
01:00 < tepples> usenet went uuencode while mail went base64
01:00 < pr0ntab> I was thinking how different sites have a look and feel that defines them and is entirely due to the expected use
01:00 < tsmith> robinld, that's so sad ;( the 1980s was a great time to be alive ;-)
01:00 < poutine> uh I still use usenet?
01:00 < earthnative> tepples: more that usenet never got past uuencode, whilst email did
01:00 < robinld> hence the basically qualifier
01:00 < pr0ntab> And slashdot mucking with that (the commenting engine and whitespace) was so... flying in the face of that
01:00 < tepples> some usenet users went to yEnc
01:00 < pr0ntab> Like ... I mean ycombinator looks the same as it always has
01:00 < pr0ntab> reddit looks the same
01:00 < poutine> uh, servers didn't go yenc
01:01 < meisterister> Alright, G'night gents.
01:01 < poutine> they all just took base64 encoded data
01:01 -!- meisterister [~mgohde@168-103-255-234.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:01 < poutine> clients read encodings
01:01 < earthnative> but if you're talking about NNTP as a transport system, then layering in base64 and html is easy enough.
01:01 < tsmith> poutine, the NNTP servers still don't technically support binary at all. It's all client side.
01:01 < pr0ntab> 4chan has totally revamped how the backend works with json apis... and it still delivers cached threads as straight html
01:01 < poutine> tsmith, Hence why I said it uses base64 encoded data
01:01 -!- juggs [~crypto@unaffiliated/cryptotheslow] has joined ##altslashdot
01:01 < tsmith> poutine, no, that's just one mechanism.
01:02 < tsmith> poutine, and it's all client-side. The servers are dumb wrt binary
01:02 < pav5088> Well, really that solves most problems except maybe user auth / id and moderation....
01:02 < pav5088> (big problems)
01:02 < earthnative> nntp has the benefit of history and tested and a lot of clients... but... unless you're presenting that as a UI to end-users (of the particularly geeky kind), then it's probably not the best mechanism for internal replication
01:02 < juggs> will someone please take me out back and shoot me please?
01:02 < tsmith> I would LOVE a thing like slashdot on NNTP. I haven't seen aything like that since the early 90s ;o
01:02 < pav5088> juggs, what calibre?
01:02 < juggs> effin howitzer is probably suitable
01:03 -!- zenbi [~bryan@70-128-149-47.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##altslashdot
01:03 < pav5088> I think I saw a movie of that :-/
01:03 < poutine> I think we should put a mysql database in a mongodb store and replicate it with couchbase across a SolrCloud Quorum
01:03 < poutine> poof, slashdot
01:04 < pav5088> earthnative, of course it would need a front end... but how else would you do internal replication?
01:04 < tsmith> earthnative, i think building it around the NNTP protocol could keep it sane in a way that all these stupid sites are going Web 3.0 and killing their userbases.
01:04 <@Barrabas> What is this - a Zippy convention?
01:04 < earthnative> pav5088: if you're just shuffling data around between an internal server cluster, nntp seems like a terrible idea
01:05 < tepples> if Zippy drives my CDROM don't talk to my old grey foot
01:05 < pav5088> earthnative, well... it works for one. :)
01:05 < tsmith> Doing a site like slashdot via NNTP is a genius solution if you ask me, if you/we could pull it off. I mean, is it even feasible to scale millions of users? i know volume and traffic wise, sure, but can it handle millions of comment threads?
01:05 < earthnative> imho, if you're going to take NNTP as a base, maybe set goals higher... develop a NNTP next-gen that harks back to nntp, but also looks forward to a possible resurgance as a federated back-end to message boards and news sites... ?
01:06 < pav5088> earthnative, KISS
01:06 < poutine> tsmith, I really have to question where your future is if you're a PHP programmer and against "web 3.0" or whatever you want to call it, haven't you ever heard of a concept called configurability and graceful degradation/gradual enhacement?
01:06 < pav5088> or else "show me the code" ;)
01:06 < tsmith> earthnative, Yeah but you need to keep that for v2 or v3 of the site. first aim to get raw text to the user via both a newsclient and a web browser.
01:06 < earthnative> pav5088: which is why database replication exists, and nntp is an ancient protocol that's not well suited to internal replication :P
01:07 < earthnative> nntp as an exposed interface to the users? absolutely. I am *all for that*
01:07 < pav5088> earthnative, but it's not internal replication... it's a federation of servers that don't trust eachother (like email)
01:07 < tsmith> poutine, of course. that's how i design my sites. I still think basing the site on a text, contextual protocol could avoid the "design for design sake" that kills all these sites i like.
01:07 < juggs> just spent the best part of 3 hours re-re-re-re-working eggdrop configs to be hit with seemingly inexplicable "no language files can be found" errors again and again - only to now remember I tied eggdrop down like a sadist on a kill spree with AppArmor when I last used it. One quick look in syslog and sure enough a gadgillion denied errors. Meh suppose it shows AppArmor works to protect the stupid.
01:07 < earthnative> (much like "email list as exposed interface" and "web forum as exposed interface" would all make it great, imho
01:08 < earthnative> pav5088: ahh right. I missed that bit of it all then :)
01:08 < tsmith> earthnative, do you know how expensive database replication is on the slashdot scale? Using NNTP and having ISPs do that for you, for free, is GENIUS
01:09 < tepples> except ISPs have been getting out of the usenet business
01:09 < poutine> guys how cool would it be if we'd just make slashdot a downloadable zip file, and we just curl the URL and pipe the resulting data through pkunzip, which would output txt files of top level articles, an article.txt, and subfolders to represent comment hierarchies, we can even use filesystem permissions for moderation filters, when we've added out own comments to the tree, we an then do a PUT to a proper restful api, poof slashdot
01:09 < earthnative> oh yeah, because so many ISPs carry newsgroups regularly these days? pfft.
01:09 < pav5088> earthnative, just trying to dodge having to find a gazillion dollars for hosting by going federated... that also stops the need for advertising etc... also
01:09 < tsmith> tepples, no check out astraweb.com, it's just becoming a commodity for those who value Usenet. I have been paying for Usenet access for 5+ years now and love it.
01:09 < earthnative> poutine: haha :)
01:09 < tepples> remember, users can't edit comments, so the feed of new cids is append-only
01:09 < tepples> if something's append-only, replication becomes easier
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01:10 < tsmith> teppes, The internet is *way* too WWW centric in 2014. Going NNTP as a backbone has its own merits over traditional LAMP replicated MySQL databases.
01:10 < poutine> tsmith, you sound out of touch with technology
01:10 < tsmith> poutine, thank you.
01:10 < earthnative> tsmith: hmm, how far back does astraweb's archives go? there is a group I'm trying to archive and haven't found more than a few years (and resorting to scraping google groups is... gar)
01:11 < poutine> all those horrible horrible things that was terrible hacks built on top of hacks became standards
01:11 < poutine> welcome to 2014
01:11 < earthnative> gopher backend!
01:11 < poutine> earthnative, > 10000 days
01:11 < poutine> I already used the gopher joke
01:11 < poutine> bro
01:11 < poutine> 1000
01:11 < earthnative> oh, I missed that too. damn
01:11 < poutine> not 10000
01:11 < poutine> it says on their site
01:11 < tepples> but it's only September 7465
01:12 < tsmith> earthnative, most major Usenet providers have been keeping up with archives on a daily basis for many years now. Now Astraweb's retention limit is currently 2100 days. 5.75 years.
01:12 < earthnative> poutine: more or less than giganews? (which says 2012 days of retention currently)
01:12 < tsmith> Most of them are 2000+ days in 2014
01:12 < tphr> +1 for nntp and combine it with some use of jabber type of presence protocol for notifications
01:12 < poutine> giganews is a rip off
01:12 < poutine> has been for quite some time
01:13 < earthnative> fair enough, but it's the one I reference because it's the one I joined for a free month to get this one group
01:13 < tsmith> astraweb is like $50 for 1 TB of non-expering.
01:13 < tsmith> *expiring
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01:15 < acposter> hi tsmith
01:15 < tsmith> acposter, hi what's up?
01:15 < acposter> not much welcome
01:15 < tsmith> thank you! you too!
01:15 < acposter> im lookin at your php u page. cool
01:16 < tsmith> Thanks.
01:16 < tsmith> OK guys. I'm going back to dev'ing. You know how to contact me if you want to assign me work on this altslash project.
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01:17 < acposter> er how?
01:17 < acposter> or does he just mean the contacts on his site
01:18 < poutine> tsmith wrote some terrible code btw
01:18 < poutine> http://repo.phpexperts.pro/source/redditmirror.cc/view/head:/pdo_index.php
01:18 < poutine> example
01:18 < robinld> lol
01:18 < poutine> I wouldn't trust him to make a myspace page
01:19 < robinld> to be fair all php code is terrible
01:28 < pav5088> Hmmm... I guess a moderation could just be a plain message with "+1"
01:28 < nanotube> heh, just use a mailing list with a web archive frontend for the non-subscribers. support structured moderation emails. done.
01:28 < pav5088> yeah, with the magic done in the UI
01:29 < pav5088> nanotube, very true...
01:29 < pav5088> The simpler/stupider the better....
01:30 < pav5088> Well... IMHO
01:35 < pav5088> That's some high volume email traffic though... That also helps with eg. automated spam filtering, and rejecting mails over a certain size is built in.
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01:39 < acposter> whats bad about that pdo_index.php
01:41 -!- tphr [46e22b19@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.226.43.25] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
01:42 < pav5088> Who knows... I'm no web dev ;)
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01:46 < acposter> im trying to study some and its like
01:46 < acposter> kind of daunting
01:48 < omoc> thats why they call it studying :P
01:49 < acposter> lol i know
01:50 < acposter> i guess thats why those skills pay $
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01:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> comp.misc on usenet is the new Slashdot, it's official now
02:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> While I think the idea of creating a new Slashdot for the refugees is laudable, there is nothing in that plan that will guarantee that this won't all happen again.
02:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> Usenet is clearly the only option, as an uncensorable, distributed, non-commercial, (relatively) persistent discussion forum and you can use the free usenet server Eternal September if your ISP no longer has Usenet.
02:01 < poutine> I can't wait to advertise my ponzi schemes on it
02:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> Remember, comp.misc - it's the new Slashdot. Come one come all.
02:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> Yeah but you'll just get shit-canned
02:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> People still keep killfile lists. At least the GNAA won't be able to troll the group for years in the open - they can do it all they like when nobody's looking.
02:03 < poutine> I'm glad weev went to prison
02:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> But this brings up an interesting point - I personally found some of the Slashdot trolls hilarious. Trollaxor, the GNAA, the hosts file fella, and Michael Kristopiet were all good for a really excellent laugh.
02:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> And at least Trollaxor and the hosts file fella have some good points even while fulfilling the role of troll.
02:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> By the way, my new neighbor thinks I am the hosts file guy even though I'm not.
02:04 < poutine> /r/thatHappened
02:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> Sorry, reddit really chaps my ass. It's better than Slasdot is these days, but it is another commercial wannabe Usenet.
02:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> talk.misc
02:05 < acposter> too many liberals on reddit
02:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> progressives actually
02:06 < FreeAsInFreedom> which if you know your 20th century history, is just code for undercover communist
02:06 < acposter> but their ideas arent new
02:06 < acposter> i like reddit for perusing but i would not ever participate
02:06 < poutine> reddit makes some stupid decisions, like the decision to make their site publicly look like reddit can't count simple numbers, and then for them to claim it's on purpose and due to it being of some use to spammers, when shadowbanning is easily detected using a single curl call
02:07 < poutine> 2 curl calls
02:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> See the whole idea of shadowbanning is lame.
02:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> I don't want some jackass little pissant king of the hill to decide what I want.
02:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> I'm a grown man, I can manage my own killfile.
02:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> That's another problem, I'm still not sure if you can just entirely block a user on Reddit.
02:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> It's been at least 2-3 years since I used that site.
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02:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> Ultimately, this is another issue I have with some Slashdot refugee camp other than Usenet as well. Somebody else is in charge, instead of it being a truly cooperative effort.
02:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> While I am certain that it is only with the best of intentions that altslashdot has been pondered, there is no long term guarantee that, say 5 years down the road, we will not be faced with exactly the same scenario.
02:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> I believe Reddit was created in order to provide a refugee camp for Digg (not sure entirely there) but it ended up being purchased by fuckin' Conde Nast!
02:17 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, if you were here earlier you'd have seen that is what people were sometimes talking about ie. a federated solution either based on NNTP or SMTP (with the bonus of existing antispam infrastructure etc...). Using metadata messages to replicate moderation eg. "+1 insightful" etc...
02:17 < amblivious> they were looking for ways to ensure it stayed with the community. if you have any ideas please share.
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02:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> I think that moderation through a bit of scripting could be easily integrated into nntp
02:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> But is it really necessary? Posts that are popular attract replies, so a moderation could be inferred simply by looking at how popular a given post really is.
02:22 < amblivious> since you couldn't alter the posts after they were made (to tag them in some way) you'd need to keep a list of moderations elsewhere in which case you have the same dilema. You could send meta-messages to a news group to do that though I suppose. provided everyone used the right client or gateway it would work. Nobody will install a client to look at it though.
02:22 < pav5088> If you like Usenet stick with it... but people like the Slashdot moderation. The community will vote with its feet. I used Usenet since '91 but I still prefer Slashdot.
02:24 < omoc> I haven't used usenet in ages, out of interest, what is the hip newsreader these days
02:24 < pav5088> amblivious, I think NNTP/SNMP was going to stay a background protocol.
02:24 < pav5088> Theoretically... :) noone was putting their hands up... so I think it's "show me the code"... whoever comes up with a solution will have the say.
02:25 < amblivious> I see. so you'd have one or multiple providers acting as a gateway to process the stored news groups and do the moderation?
02:25 < omoc> how can you run the website and avoid a "sell off" scenario? How do community driven linux distros solve this problem?
02:25 < pav5088> This whole thing has exposed a vulnerability though... we don't have an alternative.
02:25 < amblivious> give shares to all members
02:26 < pav5088> omoc, a federated solution doesn't have an owner.... eg. who owns email?
02:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> omoc there are many to choose from
02:26 < amblivious> a federated option would require a client or some middleman acting as a gateway.
02:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> seamonkey and opera seem to be the cross-platform readers of choice
02:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> with Windows you still have outlook
02:27 < pav5088> amblivious, yup... but that's not really such a problem is it?
02:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> under unix there is tin, rn, slrn
02:27 < omoc> FreeAsInFreedom: I'm a Linux guy :)
02:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> and I use Unison on the Mac
02:27 < amblivious> I doubt you'd get much readership if you required a client. if you have a middleman you're in much the same boat.
02:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> you do need a client
02:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's called a web browser
02:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> these days it comes with a shitware engine called javascript
02:28 < amblivious> *a specific client for this service
02:28 < amblivious> oh my god
02:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> why? why bother with moderation? Somebody sucks or is uninteresting, you just killfile them
02:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> moderation is broken anyway
02:28 < amblivious> moderation is what slashdot is.
02:29 < pav5088> seconded
02:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> slashcode has the kiss of death
02:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> if a moderator doesn't like you you have permanent negative karma
02:29 < amblivious> and probably deserve it :-/
02:29 < omoc> metamoderation avoids this mostly
02:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> I was shitcanned for dissing Roblimo regarding his video slashvertisements
02:29 < pav5088> If you don't like Slashdot use something else... but people do, so they're here.
02:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> right
02:29 < amblivious> yeah, too true
02:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> something else, like usenet
02:30 < amblivious> ok
02:30 < amblivious> glad is was so easy for you.
02:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> this doesn't need to be a business opportunity for wannabe dotcom vultures circling the slashdot carcass
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02:30 < pav5088> ...that's why a federated solution is attractive... no one entity has power.
02:31 < amblivious> most certainly not, but the slashdot community is bleeding badly. If nothing is done it'll just bleed to death with no chance to hold onto the community.
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> i bear the precious blood that will catch the life blood of slashdot
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> cup
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> heh
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> called usenet!
02:32 < amblivious> ugh
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> see ultimately this is the problem
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> there is no other realistic solution
02:32 < pav5088> They could have said "we've got a shrinking readership... we want to superchange the community... how do we do this".... but instead they did a shit redesign... :-/
02:32 < amblivious> pav5088: would you use a javascript client?
02:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> javascript on usenet
02:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> you'd be shitcanned faster than fuck by the killfile maintainers
02:33 < pav5088> amblivious, there can be a number of front ends... no need for one or the other.
02:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> your posts would never make it off your own machine
02:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> why are you all queer for javascript anyway?
02:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's half the problem with the internet these days
02:34 < amblivious> pav5088: I'd certainly want it to behave like a web page in a browser. a dedicated client would lose me instantly. and I don't like javascript. how would you do the federation?
02:34 < pav5088> amblivious, who's saying anything about a dedicated client?
02:35 < amblivious> oh, ok
02:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> somebody's gotta sneak some banner ads in SOMEWHERE!
02:35 < amblivious> I'm fine with a few ads. people can block them if they wish.
02:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> without a blessed client or a javascripty web 2.0 thing how can anybody "pay for hosting"?
02:36 -!- Bado [~Adium@ip24-251-80-108.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
02:36 < amblivious> if ads mean a viable slashdot I don't mind a few provided they are not the in-your-face variety
02:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> they do not
02:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> and the damage of ads to the current slashdot is obvious
02:36 < amblivious> it's a lot more than the ads
02:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> once some money is waved around the ads become more subtle
02:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> slashvertisement
02:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> astroturfing
02:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> notice how the MS campus probably created a million accounts in the last 10 years on slashdot?
02:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> nothing but spam from those pukes
02:37 < omoc> if you create revenue the "sell off" scenario becomes a problem again
02:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> see omoc gets it
02:37 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, if it's federated it'll just be how people choose... it's really a non-issue, and not what people were complaining about.
02:37 < omoc> you need a 501(c) non-profit foundation
02:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> even non profits have their issues
02:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> the drivel PBS puts out is just commercial programming
02:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> paid for by donation!
02:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> look up american public media sometime
02:38 < amblivious> what about shares for all members?
02:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> the solution is that there is no boss
02:38 < pav5088> that's what federated is about...
02:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> amblivious, this is a problem
02:39 < FreeAsInFreedom> who is to stop sock puppets and tor users from just gaining a controlling share?
02:39 < omoc> well, there needs to be a project leader of some sort, but that person can change from time to time
02:39 < pav5088> I don't really care... they could even pay with porn ads if they liked... should I find that disturbing I'd just use another server.
02:39 < FreeAsInFreedom> then, pav, you are right back where we are today
02:39 < pr0ntab> I was reading the posts about NNTP earlier... yeah I agree it's really about a site that federates the feed and provides a nexus for user auth
02:39 < FreeAsInFreedom> the whole thing becomes a wasteland of spam and porn
02:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> prontab, though
02:40 < pr0ntab> So there can be multiple versions of the site that feature different groups and community standardsd
02:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> why bother with authorization?
02:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> what about anonymity?
02:40 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, well, I could simulate federation with a greasemonkey script....
02:40 < pr0ntab> In case people want an anchor for saying: hey I'm me with this public key
02:40 < pr0ntab> Which in some cases, I want to do
02:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> there have been quite a few interesting posts on slashdot from anonymous users over the years
02:40 < pr0ntab> but not in others
02:40 < omoc> if you want an anonymity board just go to 4chan
02:40 < pr0ntab> sort of like... IRC or jabber
02:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> or like...
02:40 < amblivious> AC is important
02:41 < pr0ntab> but right now I might as well be AC
02:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> usenet with your signature verifying that the message you typed is really from you?
02:41 < pr0ntab> i'm not auth with a nickserv
02:41 < omoc> yes, but usernames are important as well
02:41 < pr0ntab> more like a tripcode
02:41 < pr0ntab> lel
02:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> there is really nothing to be gained by avoiding usenet
02:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> except loss of possible future revenues
02:41 < pr0ntab> usenet puts a little too much on the client to do the job
02:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> get outta here
02:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> why is that?
02:41 < pr0ntab> I mean as a slashdot replacement
02:42 < pr0ntab> usenet is what it is
02:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> well the only thing really lacking on usenet for the slashdot refugee is the moderation
02:42 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, raw Usenet sucks OK? If I liked it I would have stayed there and not gone to Slashdot
02:42 < pr0ntab> however the concept is viable for content distribution and syndication among "slashdot network replacement" members
02:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> raw usenet is awesome
02:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> i've had it with forums and sites like reddit and slashdot
02:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> the internet's gone to shit
02:42 < pr0ntab> and hell, maybe someone will make an NNTP gateway for people with nntp clients
02:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> a small barrier to entry keeps away the trash and riffraff
02:42 < pr0ntab> which isn't a bad idea
02:43 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, for you, yes... so .... stay there with the people that like it... and we slashdoters... well, we're in trouble... but I think they'd even go to 4chan before Usenet (not that they would)
02:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> but that's my point
02:43 < pr0ntab> @pav5088 I'd also argue that 4chan-alikes could use this same model
02:43 < pr0ntab> could benefit from it, I mean
02:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> next to slashdot, usenet is the most compelling thing
02:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> i mean after slashdot
02:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> it cures all the problems that cropped up with slashdot, and heads the others off at the pass
02:44 < pr0ntab> No man, it goes Slashdot, SomethingAwful, LoL, USENET, SecondLife
02:44 < pav5088> hehe
02:44 < omoc> can we please stop with the usenet stuff, it's obviously not going to fill the void for us
02:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> i think that it could
02:45 < amblivious> usenet was fine, but it's not a slashdot replacment.
02:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> what's this 'was'
02:45 < pav5088> but Usenet as a back end protocol certainly could be used
02:45 < pav5088> (for a federated solution)
02:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> some groups get many megabytes of traffic a day
02:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> message groups not binary groups
02:45 < pav5088> not that I'm rusted on to that idea or anything personally
02:45 < amblivious> I mean, it was fine when I used it.
02:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> let's get real here
02:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> the reason why all this other stuff is being contemplated is because people see dollar signs
02:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's the entire fucking root of the problem with slashdot
02:46 < amblivious> no it's not. sad you see it that way.
02:46 < acposter> nothing wrong with $
02:46 -!- Cruian [~Thunderbi@fl-208-163-136-21.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Cruian]
02:46 < omoc> yes there is
02:46 < pav5088> I have an idea... we pool our money and buy EMAIL!!!
02:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> acposter, can you really say that while observing the sad state of slashdot today?
02:47 < acposter> it's not good or bad, it's just what is
02:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> sure, it's a tool
02:47 < pr0ntab> The hardest part about a model as it is being proposed
02:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> i like money, who doesn't
02:47 < pr0ntab> Is that whatever nexus (site, ISP, whatever) functions as the gateway can become a point of monetization
02:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> exactly
02:47 < pr0ntab> s/as the gateway/as a popular gateway/
02:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> single point of failure
02:48 < pr0ntab> But you simply plan for this eventuality in the model so that it can't get too away from you
02:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> i advance that there is no effective way to do this
02:48 < omoc> imagine this, you setup a new site, attract a large userbase and in 1 year some company X pays you +1M$ for it, would you say no?
02:48 < omoc> revenue is a problem
02:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> which brings me back to usenet
02:49 < pr0ntab> "web" IRC for discussion on RSS feeds
02:49 < h0bbl3s> This just in from DICE. The reason we are pushing beta is to extend synergistic partnerships and implement innovative partnerships to transform bleeding-edge users. (ah Slashdot, without you I would have never found the web economy bullshit generator and become a corporate officer at DICE)
02:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> the infrastructure is already there
02:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> there are clients for every OS
02:49 < pav5088> Just so long as it's not the ONLY gateway everything is hunky dory... I guess Gmail and Hotmail in its time made money... but there were other options. So long as it stays that way.
02:49 < amblivious> that can't happen with a federated approach
02:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> sure it can, who is to say how the federation is implemented
02:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> how do you deal with spam?
02:49 < pr0ntab> let's suppose we use a model that works like this
02:49 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: yeah, well usenet alone will never be the replacement people here are looking for. get over it.
02:50 < pr0ntab> what is the focal point for any discussion on slashdot?
02:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> what if your definition of spam and junk is not the same as mine?
02:50 < pav5088> But this is all pie in the sky until someone actually does something. We're all pissing in the wind until someone unveils some code...
02:50 < acposter> h0bbl3s: in plain speak that says "we need to increase revenue, thus we need to do anything to appeal to the lowest common denominator"
02:50 < pr0ntab> A permalink to an article somewhere?
02:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> amblivious, I disagree
02:50 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: that's what moderation is for
02:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> usenet alone can be the replacement people here are looking for
02:50 < amblivious> and usenet won't do moderation
02:50 < pr0ntab> And sometimes, an "ask-slashdot" content in the article comment
02:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> everybody does their own moderation to some degree
02:50 < amblivious> no it cannot. it cannot be a replacement for me... and I'm here
02:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> look, here's how you read news
02:50 < acposter> it's hard to track everyones ideas in irc
02:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> you look at the topic, see which replies have gathered other replies, and mark those as interesting
02:51 < pr0ntab> yeah, if only we had the slashdot threaded discussion system in this
02:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> many clients can already flag posts form known good users
02:51 < amblivious> moderation means you don't read crap. self moderation is not moderation at all.
02:51 < pav5088> It can't for me either.... I've had 12 years of Usenet and 12 years of Slashdot...
02:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> bullshit
02:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> slashdot moderation means you read the crap the people with mod points like you to read
02:51 < pr0ntab> there is a little of that in that you can weight tags yourself right now
02:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> hot grits, hehehe
02:51 < pav5088> Personal preference is a funny thing...
02:51 < pr0ntab> like funny -> -1
02:52 < pr0ntab> but the moderation system itself still keeps track of what other users tagged posts with
02:52 < amblivious> that the slashdot community likes, yes. and that's what we like because we find there is value in the opinion of the slashdot hive.
02:52 < pav5088> some people want OMGponies... more power to em
02:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> the power of slashdot is not entirely the mod system
02:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's the people who post
02:52 < pr0ntab> you're half right
02:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> the mod system is also a barrier to entry
02:52 < pav5088> :)
02:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> many times I browse at -1
02:52 < pr0ntab> people wouldn't post if they didn't think anyone would read a post they put effort into
02:53 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: give it up dude. usenet alone is not a replacemment. great it works for you but you can't tell people here it will work for them. we do now usenet.
02:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> lots of interesting and insightful posts just never get noticed, especially if the story scrolls
02:53 < pr0ntab> the mod system transparently rewards the effort by making the post more visible by default
02:53 < acposter> usenet is not a solution
02:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> usenet is the ONLY solution
02:53 < amblivious> *know
02:53 < amblivious> gah, you're not helping.
02:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's the only one that works and is guaranteed not to just get monetized and thrown away
02:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> i'm not helping YOU and YOUR agenda
02:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> so what?
02:54 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom is a DICE employee ;)
02:54 < amblivious> ok, but the people here generally are not looking for that. you have a solution to a different problem.
02:54 < amblivious> lol
02:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> bull, my solution is the solution to the slashdot problem
02:54 < h0bbl3s> The slashdot moderation system works so well for us because of the community moderating it. Regardless of where we go if the community doesn't follow it won't be the same. I think usenet could possibly work, as well as other things, but only if the community follows.
02:54 < acposter> proposing usenet seems like you ignore all the factors that brought us here
02:54 < acposter> er not all but not taking everything into account
02:54 -!- Trip_ [60e7ef37@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.231.239.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> see
02:54 < amblivious> no, it really isn't what makes slashdot great is the moderation. usenet does not have that. it is not a replacement.
02:54 < pav5088> I'm beginning to realise why FreeAsInFreedom doesn't like mod systems...
02:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> the moderation is half the problem
02:55 < acposter> if slashdot was pure community we wouldn't need to create anything, just a google groups or some free platform to discuss would be enough
02:55 < amblivious> and why he gets banned around the place.
02:55 < acposter> but theres other factors
02:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> well if this was usenet, you shit-can me and it's done
02:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> if this is slashdot I just keep coming back as AC
02:55 < amblivious> I may agree with you on other things though.
02:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> or change to a sockpuppet account, not that I do that
02:55 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, but if you accidentally say something insightful down the track I'd miss it
02:56 < amblivious> heh
02:56 < pr0ntab> with something like use-net though there's no ability to stem the tide at a point beyond my expensive-ass 4g connection
02:56 < pr0ntab> ack usenet
02:56 < h0bbl3s> Hey that sockpuppet guy was talking trash about my wife the other day. It was YOU!
02:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> what are you guys, kids with dreams of having no real job?
02:56 < pr0ntab> screw you buddy I've had a real IT job for 14 years
02:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> prontab, you realize how low-bitrate usenet really is, no?
02:56 < amblivious> oh, man. FreeAsInFreedom usenet alone is not what people here are looking for. just get over it and move on.
02:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> no way man
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> usenet is the future
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> what have I heard instead
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> "federation"
02:57 < h0bbl3s> In a time paradox where the future is actually the past.
02:57 < pav5088> we have ourselves a real troll :)
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> "a maintainer"
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> "monetization"
02:57 < amblivious> wow, 0-day troll.
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> "there's nothing wrong with money"
02:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> shit, this is all the stuff that fucked slashdot
02:57 < amblivious> lol
02:57 < acposter> no
02:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> the only thing that usenet doesn't have is moderation
02:58 < pav5088> Hmmmm... the other channel still exists... and I have ops. :P
02:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> at least, this is the crux of the intention
02:58 < pr0ntab> FAIF you are proposing the "do everything in the client" solution
02:58 < pr0ntab> which is why I hate that disqus javascript forum abomination
02:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> no, I am proposing that there be a seamonkey add-on coded up real quick
02:58 < amblivious> pav5088: I always liked #slashdot-refugees
02:58 < amblivious> hang on, Landon has ops here I think
02:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> something to that effect, glom moderation onto usenet for those that care
02:58 < pav5088> That is #slashdot-refugees ... if SNR drops too much
02:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> make it optional
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02:59 < pr0ntab> Discourse!
02:59 < pr0ntab> that's what it was called
02:59 < pav5088> I'm not particularly experience with ban wars though...
02:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> so if you want to play mod games with your little clique of buddies, who may like things that my little clique doesn't
02:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> we can each be happy
02:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> who says that there has to be "a" moderation applied to each comment, or that I care what you choose to moderate a comment as?
03:00 < amblivious> the thing is, we're looking for a system with moderation or it isn't a replacement for slashdot. since you just keep hamming on about usenet, which can't do that you are just noise.
03:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> but jeez
03:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> the whole infrastructure BUT moderation is already there and running!
03:00 < amblivious> BUT one of THE most crucial things
03:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> why make moderation the hinge of this discussion
03:00 < amblivious> because it is a hinge
03:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> so make a seamonkey add-on!
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> create a mod server
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> the whole thing could be done in a decentralized manner
03:01 < pav5088> because that's what Slashdot hinges on for most people.... just read through the "fuck beta" messages
03:01 < h0bbl3s> I was thinking of something similar FAIF. A plugin or setup with nodes you can join depending on your preferences. If you don't like one node you can just join a different one.
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> have the GNAA mod server for assholes
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> have the known good one
03:01 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: agreed. it could be done dencentralized.
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> have the NSA and MS friendly one
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> you subscribe to the moderation servers that you like
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03:01 < amblivious> but not with usenet alone or it still lacks moderation
03:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> or just, fuck it, use usenet and do the equivalent of "browse at -1"
03:01 < amblivious> you'd need to add something to make it fit the bill
03:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> but amblivious
03:02 < amblivious> yeah, see you can't accept the hinge
03:02 < pr0ntab> You need "trust anchors" to provide an interface onto which to apply moderation, community guidelines, that kind of stuff
03:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can easily add it on to one of the standard cross platform news clients out there
03:02 < amblivious> the hinge exists
03:02 < pr0ntab> i.e. nodes
03:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> then you subscribe to one or more moderation nodes
03:02 < pr0ntab> i.e. a website participating in the "network" which acts sort of like an interface
03:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> hell, maybe you can weigh them!
03:02 < acposter> too complicated
03:02 < omoc> why not just a simple website, owned by a 501(c) non-profit
03:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> oh, this node is 1/2 as useful as this other one
03:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> add them together with the weighing applied
03:03 < h0bbl3s> I was looking at how diaspora works a bit ago, thinking that you could make such a system using that codebase.
03:03 < h0bbl3s> At the very least combing through it for ideas.
03:03 < acposter> who here talking is a professional developer in any way shape or form
03:04 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: yeah, I agree with that. provided you accept you need something in addition to nntp, then nntp could be a useful part of the solution.
03:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can use google news
03:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> nntp
03:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> submit by email
03:04 < pav5088> Really it's the coders who will decide this... Usenet is already coded, and for me at least it is not acceptable.
03:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> but usenet has the massive advantage of ALREADY BEING DONE
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03:04 < pav5088> So coders and community will decide in unison with each not being in control
03:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> what are we going to do, pass a hat around and code up some fucking forum code?
03:05 < acposter> it doesnt seem that complicated to me to look at classic slashdot functionality as a front end user and see that a cloned system in php with an mvc framework would really not be that complicated
03:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> by the time it's out of alpha it's 2015
03:05 < amblivious> yeah, you'd also have the option of plain nntp if you didn't want to see any moderation but since most people want the moderation (it's what makes slashdot work) you'd need some sort of client or gateway and some manner of carrying moderation metadata, such as in another nntp channel
03:05 < pr0ntab> no php we need to use perl because god it gives me a woodie
03:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> then you've got a little clique of special uber-mods who are all in the same little circle jerk society
03:05 < acposter> perl php either one
03:06 < h0bbl3s> I own a consulting company I started at the beginning of 2013. My specialty is in security but I went to school for programming and recently picked up a recurring contract to manage a few dozen websites, as well as build new ones.
03:06 < amblivious> that's the f'ing point of a slashdot replacement you dumbass tool
03:06 < pr0ntab> or at least ruby (passenger) so we can look cool to those kids in Cupertino
03:06 < amblivious> moderation!
03:06 < acposter> ok h0bbl3s
03:06 < FreeAsInFreedom> and hey presto, google and samsung spring a million bucks of money into the pot and you've got slashdot all over again
03:06 < acposter> so youve done stuff like customer says here is wwhat i want and you have to translate that into database and data structures and crud
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03:06 < pav5088> Woohoo... more trolls... ;)
03:06 < pr0ntab> I can make ER diagrams!
03:07 < amblivious> I think he's just a goldfish
03:07 < acposter> heh
03:07 < Skarjak> I think the new slashdot should not have links to articles, That way ensuring that no one can actually RTFA by mistake. :)
03:07 < pr0ntab> I'm good at database schemas and yelling at people who don't use prepared queries
03:07 < pr0ntab> hey guys maybe we should use a column-oriented database for this and NOSQL NOSQL NOSQL
03:07 < pr0ntab> something with SHARDING
03:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> why not make a whole slashdot OS that runs in javascript?
03:08 < acposter> nodedotjs
03:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> as long as it pulls a shitload of code from the google api servers we're golden
03:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> google adwords under every post
03:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> how about this
03:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> people have to pay to moderate
03:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's a business plan right there
03:09 < acposter> nah
03:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> why not?
03:09 < acposter> seems like it would introduce a lot of bias
03:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> see this is the problem with this little clique on this channel
03:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> everybody sees dollar signs or internet god mode
03:10 < pr0ntab> no one gets my sarcasm
03:10 < pr0ntab> :( :( :(
03:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> all this extra shit about moderation and federation and coding new this or that and maintainers and so forth, it's veiled desire for some of those internet dollars
03:10 < pav5088> see, if we could moderate you +1 sarcastic we wouldn't have this problem ;)
03:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have been in the business for 20 years kids
03:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> i can see RIGHT through you guys, i heard it all in like 1997
03:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> this same exact stuff
03:11 < acposter> i would look at whats worked at slashdot and copy it
03:11 < acposter> and start from there
03:11 < acposter> i would clone the functionality and just go from there
03:11 < pav5088> yup yup
03:12 < acposter> and stop viewing money as bad. it's not bad or good... it's just a variable in the equation
03:12 < pr0ntab> unfortunately, faif, it's not that we want to monetize the content or anything, but we definitely want some degree of centralization on... organizing or rating the content
03:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> acposter
03:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> i fuckin' LOVE money
03:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> but you keep money out of certain aspects of your life
03:12 < pr0ntab> so that people logging in anonymously from a phone or whatever or someone just being lazy can sort of suck up that community opinion on it's own crap
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03:12 < pr0ntab> but you need the mechanisms in place to make that work, which implies centralization to some degree
03:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> prontab, you want centralization as long as the right people are central
03:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's the problem
03:13 < pr0ntab> well, you have to at least carry the self-rating of the content with the people who provided it (same-origin)
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03:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> my little idea of a seamonkey add-in that allows you to choose mod servers and weigh them, or not, applied to usenet
03:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's all you'd need
03:13 < pr0ntab> And then provide mechanisms to "apply" that knowledge into a filter that most people will accept without tweaking
03:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's totally transparent
03:13 < pr0ntab> But again, that's what slashdot does now
03:13 < pr0ntab> So...
03:13 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: it's great you find usenet a replacement but please give it up. the people here want moderation. you do not. moderation is what drives slashdot to be valuable to people here. we've heard your opinoin and it is crystal clear.
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> backwards compatible
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> amblivious that is exactly what I am suggesting
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> just read what I said
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> moderation for those that need it
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> none for those that don't
03:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> and all plugged into a working infrastructure in a transparent way
03:14 < Skarjak> just click "show all comments"
03:14 < Skarjak> or something
03:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> skarjack, what if you like different things that I do?
03:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> you think something is insightful and I think it's stupid
03:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> this is the advantage of a decentralized optional mod system
03:15 < acposter> that doesnt even make sense
03:16 < pav5088> not compelling...
03:16 < Skarjak> not sure I'm getting you. Won't others be making choices for you then?
03:16 < acposter> you register on the site, you show you're not a total troll spammer, you get some mod points
03:16 < acposter> why make it complicated
03:16 < Skarjak> seems legit
03:16 < pav5088> hey yeah
03:16 < pav5088> I like the cut of your jibb
03:16 < amblivious> a moment ago you were saying the federated/decentralised idea was all about $$. make up your mind.
03:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> then after a month or two you start subtly spamming
03:16 < Skarjak> I like my jibbs well cut
03:16 < omoc> agree, keep it simple, my vote is still on a plain simple webpage that runs slashcode
03:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> you up-mod the pro-MS or pro-Oracle comment your sockpuppet makes
03:17 < pr0ntab> I definitely troll subtlely now that all my accounts have max karma
03:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> do it all in a very underhanded way
03:17 < amblivious> FreeAsInFreedom: see, you're just anti-moderation
03:17 < pr0ntab> Who's going to call me on my bullshit? Look at all my +5 posts.
03:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> exactly
03:17 < amblivious> so you're not helping
03:17 < pr0ntab> That's of course my bitter and jaded self
03:17 < Skarjak> I see plently of people with +5 posts who get called ont heir bullshit
03:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> and you have mod points to burn, to punish the insightful people that actually tried to call you out
03:17 < pr0ntab> If it's really important I get right to the point and drop the F bomb a lot
03:17 < pav5088> Well... when someone produces the code... it shall be done.... but maybe DICE will backflip... still, this should probably be done for "next time"
03:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> now the honest people are fucked in the ass and the puppetmasters rule the roost
03:18 < pr0ntab> I wouldn't call them puppetmasters
03:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> i just mean
03:18 < pr0ntab> more like... a bunch of puppies trying to play catch with a frog
03:18 < amblivious> no, the valuable people are respected. the trolls, not so much.
03:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> people who maintain multiple accounts
03:18 < Skarjak> considering the space for articles is still 100 pixels wide on the new side, I'm not holding my breath on dice backing out of this
03:18 < Skarjak> *site
03:18 < omoc> pav5088: you cannot hope dice will backflip, they have just proven they don't "really" care and lost all credibility
03:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> some for good comments, simply to build a weaponized karma stockpile to use on your enemies or friends
03:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> so you build karma and then you can control what other people see
03:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> or even if they are seen in the future
03:19 < Skarjak> that's some conspiracy stuf right there
03:19 < pr0ntab> Because FAIF, I have nothing better to do than to sway public opinion to my liberal communist agenda.
03:19 < Skarjak> is this so much of a problem?
03:19 < acposter> if slashdot was nothing but pure gnaa free, meme free, troll free discussion
03:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> skarjack I know for a fact that this goes on on slashdot and has for years
03:19 < acposter> it'd be boring as fuck
03:19 < acposter> too utopian
03:19 < Skarjak> perhaps, but I find the classic website is doing fine regardless
03:20 < pr0ntab> It's very important I shore up the walls of my ivory too-big-to-fail tower and I need the hoi-polloi of Slashdot's hearts and minds to do so
03:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> the classic web site is going away dude
03:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> despite what dice said today
03:20 < Skarjak> well isn't that the point, to keep it alive?
03:20 < Skarjak> why mess with it?
03:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> they do not intend to let a mere audience dictate the future of their corporate property
03:20 < amblivious> I wish you would go away and let people discuss actual options
03:21 < Skarjak> yeah sorry, this should go back to more technical stuff
03:21 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, yup... I just checked Usenet again... the experience still sucks.
03:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> amblivious, I already presented a totally transparent way to accomplish everything you want, using infrastructure that already exists except for the very minor seamonkey add-on
03:21 < pav5088> FreeAsInFreedom, thanks for playing though
03:21 < amblivious> the very minor seamonkey bit being about the most critical peice.
03:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> well, it's very minor compared to designing a whole federated system
03:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> anway, usenet has threading
03:22 < Skarjak> you want people to use an add-on to access an important feature of the site?
03:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> different clients already have a multitude of ways to displaying shit
03:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> sure
03:22 < acposter> usenet makes NO sense
03:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> it makes way more sense than the ideas I have heard so far
03:22 < amblivious> yeah, usenet would take care of most of that. the moderation is the trick that you're missing detail on. concentrate on solving that part of th eproblem.
03:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> wait, it's the only idea I have even heard!
03:23 < amblivious> we all get the usenet side of things
03:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> 'let's clone slashdot but do it so we are in charge, and let's have ads but I promise it'll be different this time'
03:23 < pr0ntab> I don't like the idea of having a site database stored locally with no search feature
03:23 < Skarjak> how does that make any sence. Raising barrier to entry will not get you users. What if I'm using some simple browers I got on the AUR or something?
03:23 < pr0ntab> (no search feature that can leverage a distributed backend)
03:23 < Skarjak> damn my typos are terrible tonight
03:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can use an apple IIGS to browse usenet
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> there are clients for literally every major and minor OS made since about 1985
03:24 < omoc> Skarjak: wheee an archlinux user :D
03:24 < pr0ntab> Does no one else here not go back and refer to posts from last year?
03:24 < Skarjak> :D
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> and all major OS's made since 1975 or so
03:24 < amblivious> pav5088's decentralised idea using nntp was sound at least.
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> here's another benefit of usenet prontab
03:24 < pr0ntab> Because what you're suggesting would not be very easy to do at that scale
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> so say some new shit has come to light man
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> on an old topic
03:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> the old topic IS RESURRECTED!
03:25 < omoc> stop that usenet stuff please, it oviously is not what we shoot for
03:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> none of this expiring bullshit
03:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> i haven't heard any substantive argument against it
03:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> "the interface isn't all pretty"
03:25 < pr0ntab> Where is the content index
03:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> that isn't substantive
03:25 < pr0ntab> Local or NNTP server
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> local server
03:26 < amblivious> where is the moderation metadata stored?
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> federated moderation nodes
03:26 < Skarjak> ok, I think we all oppose the new design, but we still have standards
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> you subscribe to the ones you like
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> even weigh them
03:26 < pr0ntab> So you have to store every post and index them?
03:26 < Skarjak> the site can't be horribly ugly
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> calculations are applied
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> no, you fetch as you read
03:26 < amblivious> yeah, you don't get slashdot. go back to usenet.
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> renew hourly
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> dude, I have been on slashdot since about 1997
03:26 < amblivious> weird huh?
03:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> i get it
03:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> but it has changed a lot
03:27 < pr0ntab> There's 2^25 posts
03:27 < pr0ntab> each comment takes about a kilobyte if you're lucky with indexes
03:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's for shit now and has been for at least 4-5 years
03:27 < Skarjak> Well, I'm a noob by comparison, but I don't see why you hate classic so much you want to make it into something different.
03:27 < pr0ntab> it's like ... 30GB of just raw data
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03:27 < pr0ntab> and that's probably lowballing it
03:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> wow, a whole 30 gigabytes eh
03:28 < pr0ntab> So it's like ... a few steam games or my ability to read slashdot
03:28 < pr0ntab> Hmmm...
03:28 < pr0ntab> That seems a bit excessive
03:28 < amblivious> I don't subscribe to certain subjects on slashdot because interesting things come up across the board. I don't block certain users because they may not always be dickheads. I want my comments moderated by the community. anything else is not solving the problem.
03:28 < Skarjak> maybe I'm being too conservative, but if people are mad about a site redesign, shouldn't we give them an altslashdot that's as close as possible to the design users are comfortable with?
03:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> so why not store all of the new NNTP/. locally?
03:28 < castrox> say 100 GB with all data on moderation etc. It's still very manageable.
03:28 < Skarjak> that usenet stuff is contrary to that
03:28 < amblivious> Skarjak: exactly
03:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> but this ignores totally the issue
03:29 < amblivious> We need Landon to strol by and -v this jackass
03:29 -!- AZDoug [~doug@2607:fb90:603:2df4:c92f:da87:8f3c:82e5] has joined ##altslashdot
03:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> the issue isn't that 'beta sucks'
03:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's the symptom
03:29 -!- rdavis [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##altslashdot
03:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> dude just shut the fuck up and think for a minute
03:29 < amblivious> maybe he is a plant trying to distract
03:29 < pav5088> people willing to shut up and code are really the only people who have any say
03:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> the issue is that dice sucks and they are taking slashdot in the direction of their choosing
03:29 < Skarjak> winner
03:29 < pav5088> ...and I'm not one of em ;)
03:29 < acposter> or fund the process too
03:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> the solutions you are bandying about are all essentially just bandaids
03:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> you are ignoring the fact that that whole leg needs to come off
03:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> gangrene has set in and you're poling at your toe with a q-tip
03:30 < amblivious> this is not the leg you are looking for
03:30 < Skarjak> getting a bit dramatic here
03:30 < acposter> wheres an op lol
03:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> not at all
03:30 < castrox> Skarjak, just a little
03:30 < pr0ntab> FAIF we are not going to come up with new ways of interacting with each other online at this juncture
03:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> the point of a slashdot replacement is to fucking replace it
03:30 < pr0ntab> IRC
03:30 < pr0ntab> website
03:31 < pr0ntab> social network site
03:31 < pr0ntab> email
03:31 < pr0ntab> this is what we use and will continue to use
03:31 < omoc> ack
03:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> replace it in such a way that the problems that have been exposed do not have a chance to develop again
03:31 < pr0ntab> anything outside these parameters is just not on the table and is too big of a problem to try to tackle to solve a shorter term problem
03:31 < amblivious> agreed
03:31 < pr0ntab> i.e. not having slashdot
03:31 < acposter> that tsmith dude came in and said he'd be willing to develop
03:31 < pr0ntab> or rather having a _shitty_ slashdot
03:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> none of this bullshit 'let's clone slashdot' or 'federation yayyy' mumbo jumbo will guarantee a fix
03:32 < pr0ntab> tsmith couldn't php his way out a paper bag, from his portfolio
03:32 < omoc> I'd rather have a shitty slashdot than the beta crap xD
03:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> none of this shit is even guaranteed to get off the ground, let alone in a timely fashion
03:32 < acposter> who else has come forward
03:32 < pr0ntab> usenet is already dead man
03:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> i make the usenet suggestion because it's working today
03:32 < pr0ntab> let it lie
03:32 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, there's always going to be an owner or owning organization behind a website. A site can be fucked up in infinitely many ways.
03:32 < pr0ntab> stop beating the dead horse
03:32 < Skarjak> I can't believe how their new design has the articles so narrow
03:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can glom on moderation and shit in the future
03:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> or not
03:33 -!- robinld [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
03:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> of you can, and I can ignore you
03:33 < pr0ntab> leave it for the binary groups to push their beautiful releases
03:33 < acposter> you just want to hear yourself talk and have everyone listen to you at this point
03:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> dude there are many active usenet groups still
03:33 < omoc> Skarjak: the new site is optimized for the fancy tablet users
03:33 < pr0ntab> btw does anyone have a ROM for Braverly Default?
03:33 < omoc> or better, to attract them
03:33 < amblivious> the current state of slashcode wuld be quite sufficient as a stopgap to stop the community fading away. that's really quite simple but how would you get them to move? There are plans to have slashcode running on Monday on altslashdot.org
03:33 < Skarjak> because slashdot folks are the ones most likely to be browsing on a tablet, am I right?
03:33 < Skarjak> I remember when they announced the ipad
03:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> dude nobody knows who is running altslashdot.org
03:33 -!- rdavis [~robind@50-200-162-206-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
03:33 < Skarjak> wasn't pretty on slashdot
03:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> and it's a stupid name anyway
03:34 < amblivious> it's just a working name. can you get a grip?
03:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> you're itching to get sued by dice if you manage to make two nickels to rub together
03:34 < acposter> they know that
03:34 < acposter> read their wiki discussion
03:34 < omoc> you can change the domain later, just get something started on altslashdot
03:34 < pr0ntab> The mobile version of the site should just have fewer "spacing" elements and allow itself to flow naturally
03:34 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, what is your suggestion?
03:34 -!- bug2000 [~bug2000@unaffiliated/bug2000] has joined ##altslashdot
03:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> my suggestion is simple
03:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> use usenet
03:34 < amblivious> lol
03:34 < acposter> ugh :(
03:34 < castrox> the mobile version is already broken.
03:34 < Skarjak> god
03:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> create an add-on moderation system for seamonkey
03:34 < pr0ntab> So that when you change orientation, the site is still readable on screen "resize"
03:34 < omoc> fuck usenet
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> which already exists and has a plugin system already working
03:35 < amblivious> everyone must use seamonkey then. wonderful.
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> why not?
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> at least in the beginning
03:35 < Skarjak> I'm not going to use it
03:35 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, but the moderation system would need to be hosted somewhere? no?
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> or any news client of their choice
03:35 < pr0ntab> seamonkey has a lot issues, mostly that no one uses it except my parents
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> castrox, I have addressed this too
03:35 < Skarjak> are you so presumptuous that you think you can select for users what their browsers should be?
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> you have an open format for moderation, and you subscribe to any moderation server(s) of your choosing
03:35 < pr0ntab> faif, just because you think you "addressed" something does not mean that anyone agrees
03:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can subscribe to several and even weigh them
03:36 < amblivious> so the rest of us in here a looking for something other than usenet. usenet has the possibility to make a novel decentralised system but that's not what we're looking for here.
03:36 < pr0ntab> that the idea is implementable, reasonable, or scalable
03:36 < omoc> do I really have to create a filter for the usenet guy here...
03:36 < Skarjak> it would be helpful
03:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> why don't you guys make a reasonable suggestion?
03:36 < Skarjak> we did
03:36 < Skarjak> stay conservative
03:36 < Skarjak> don't change too much
03:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> something that doesn't involve you or your cronies as kings of a new dice hill
03:36 < acposter> i did
03:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> oh shit
03:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's the same shit again though
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> except with you instead of timothy and rob
03:37 < pr0ntab> 501(c), conservatively architected site, user-curated channels
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> fuck that in the ass with a goat stick
03:37 < pr0ntab> guys, user-curated article channels?
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> who decides which user curates what?
03:37 < pr0ntab> With DNS wildcard for whatever you want a-z0-9*
03:37 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, I for one think a subscription based moderation system would be far too fragmented. Consider the amount of meta moderation going on today - then cut that by 90% for each populistic moderation subscription list. Failing moderation, then, makes it all a pile of popo.
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> shit
03:37 < amblivious> use the existing slashcode for now. there is like 3 weeks before people will start leaving in droves. what we actually need to discuss is how to get people to come and who/how will we get hosting.
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> why not make a whole new OS
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> we could run it on custom silicon
03:37 < omoc> 1. use a simple website with slashcode - 2. create a 501(c) non-profit who owns the domain and acquires the ad revenue - 3. offer a foundation membership to generate enough money for full time employees
03:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> FPGAs at first of course
03:38 < pr0ntab> we'll call it... Netezza!
03:38 < amblivious> omoc: yep. but that plan is post the next 3 weeks.
03:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> why would you need employees with a user curated and run system?
03:38 < pr0ntab> And then IBM will buy us
03:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> somebody's gotta make the money and be in charge
03:38 < Skarjak> amblivious makes a great point: time is of the essence. You want to capture users are they are in the middle of the "revolt". That invovles using the code you have and not changing too much.
03:38 < pr0ntab> Yup
03:38 < omoc> someone has to administrate the website
03:38 < pr0ntab> I'm going to keep bringing this up...
03:38 < pr0ntab> User-curated article channels?
03:38 < acposter> someone or some group has to bear the risk
03:38 < omoc> maybe you can do it on a voluntary basis at first
03:38 < pr0ntab> Where there are feeds and anyone who is the "editor" for a channel pushes it live?
03:39 < pr0ntab> As opposed to the group of like 5 editors and 15 samey-samey topic areas?
03:39 < Skarjak> Tesla climate change NSA etc.
03:39 < pr0ntab> Not trying to copy reddit here but... it might help to spread out
03:39 < acposter> this is all hopeless im starting to think
03:40 < pr0ntab> spread out the "load" of publishing and give it some breathing room
03:40 < pr0ntab> let people really publish their own articles, effectively
03:40 < Skarjak> doesn't that make slashdot a slightly shittier reddit then?
03:40 < omoc> so put slashcode on altslashdot.org for starters, that shouldn't take too long
03:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> how about this
03:41 < amblivious> we need to get a big name onboard with a revolt. someone like bruce perens. Someone who can offer temporary hosting or a philanthropist to pay for some hosting. there's gotta be some rich slashdotters who would care for such a cause.
03:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> you get a national security letter and have to foist off some javascript hack to the firefox users for the nsa or you got to pound me in the ass prison
03:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's a fucking risk
03:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> and it is a realistic one these days
03:41 < Skarjak> broke student here, sorry :p
03:41 < acposter> you're just blabbering to heard at this point
03:41 < amblivious> It only needs to be for a few months
03:41 * Konomi is a broke ex-student
03:41 < pr0ntab> @Skarjak, well, yeah. But I mean it can't be worse than the shill feeds we have now
03:41 < Konomi> hi everyone though
03:41 -!- Subsentient [~WhiteRat@unaffiliated/subsen] has joined ##altslashdot
03:42 < pr0ntab> Especially since most people already go in and check and uncheck article categories as it is
03:42 < Skarjak> The shill feeds do start interesting discussions. It's not so bad.
03:42 < amblivious> other than hosting costs we will have enough volunteers. hosting is the problem.
03:42 < pr0ntab> So you might have a favorite "editor" who posts good stuff that you want to see
03:42 < Skarjak> Then doesn't that turn into the digg model?
03:42 < Konomi> does anyone think dice will back track on this beta with all the rage or?
03:42 < Skarjak> nope
03:42 < castrox> surely a repeatedly asked question; anyone know the status of the Slashdot database? Is it open or closed?
03:42 < pr0ntab> And that kind of be the baseline; with a main channel that collects the most active articles for the front page
03:42 < amblivious> hosting slashdot is no small feat.
03:42 < pr0ntab> it's closed
03:42 < castrox> dang.
03:42 < Konomi> I was kinda hoping they'd put it off or something
03:43 < amblivious> castrox: the database is closed.
03:43 < pr0ntab> there are some apis though for vampiring if you're crafty
03:43 < amblivious> true, but you couldn't do that
03:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> have you guys ever heard of Don Quixote?
03:43 < Skarjak> here we go again
03:43 < acposter> :(
03:43 < amblivious> please don't feed the troll
03:43 < pr0ntab> in that articles and comments have perma-links
03:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> this fucking place was dead when I came in
03:43 < pr0ntab> and you can fool around with the request parameters a little, automate that...
03:43 < Konomi> I really hope if dice goes nuts this project gets off the ground I can't do much but cheer you all on though ;p
03:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> my idea is the only one that works TODAY, at least in its essential form
03:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> the software's done but for the moderation system, if anybody even cares (not convinced here)
03:44 < Skarjak> Holy shit I just noticed the timestamps. You guys have fun. :p
03:44 < amblivious> cheer Skarjak
03:44 < amblivious> *cheers
03:44 -!- Skarjak [46512b7f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.81.43.127] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
03:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> anyway I will be the last man standing here
03:45 -!- pbnjoe [~pbnjoe@unaffiliated/pbnjoe] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> I have a machine that has 12v power attached to a bank of batteries, double-homed internet, and an OS that hasn't rebooted in almost two years
03:46 < Konomi> I kinda have a thing for ghetto machines
03:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> oh, it's ghetto
03:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> but the dual power supplies were an awesome investment
03:46 < Konomi> long as it has something *nix on it ;p
03:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's lame to shoot for uptime if you don't have dual PSUs
03:47 < Konomi> hehe
03:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> but let's face it
03:47 -!- nobbis [50c26602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.194.102.2] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
03:48 < pr0ntab> what does this machine with 2 years of uptime do
03:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> for basically everything but numerical work and gaming, any computer made since about 2006 is way more than enough
03:48 -!- bug2000 [~bug2000@unaffiliated/bug2000] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> it serves a shell to my other computers, runs a small wiki
03:48 < Konomi> I'm really nervous about slashdot at the momement I am hoping it doesn't come to needing to "fork" it
03:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> and serves as my packet BBS machine
03:49 < Konomi> I got on te net a little before the whole facebook era and slashdot is one of the few sites I can stand for news
03:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> im a radio amateur
03:49 < Konomi> awesome I had a radio license but I got lazy ;p
03:49 -!- nobbis [~laurence@royalx.beoffices.com] has joined ##altslashdot
03:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> dude that's unfortunate
03:49 < Konomi> I guess I am pretty poor though
03:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have been playing with APRS for years and am getting better with code
03:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> poor is no excuse
03:49 < Konomi> and the whole no encryption kinda ruined it for me a bit
03:50 < Konomi> I was hoping to do encrypted links with net traffic over them or something liek that
03:50 < omoc> castrox: maybe we can write a crawler to grab the slashdot content from the database, but you cannot get the users
03:50 < amblivious> nor the content
03:50 < pr0ntab> doesn't matter, lot of dead users on slashdot
03:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> did you see this: http://hackaday.com/2013/11/26/amateur-radio-transmits-1000-miles-on-voice-power/
03:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> but are you kidding, encryption on amateur radio?
03:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> that runs afoul of the entire spirit of it
03:50 < amblivious> the article choice/topic is not really important - it's the comments.
03:50 < Konomi> of some degree ;p
03:51 < stderr_dk> Isn't that a big no-no?
03:51 < amblivious> and the people
03:51 * Konomi agrees
03:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> there is no encryption allowed with one exception
03:51 < castrox> omoc, I guess. I have no idea how far back comments are still viewable
03:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> you can encrypt control commands for amateur radio satellites in orbit
03:51 < Konomi> no one goes to slashdot for just the article it's reading like minded peoples opinions
03:51 < omoc> comments are all visible AFAIK
03:52 < Konomi> beta has them all visible it's rather awful
03:52 < amblivious> yeah. I don't think there is a need for any coding in the short term. slashcode works fine. it would be nice in the longer term to fix some of the long standing nags - but this is about saving the community right now.
03:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> anyway see you guys on reddit
03:52 < amblivious> hosting is the problem that needs solving right now.
03:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> i hear channel ops get some big money for promoting shit
03:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> or subreddit mods
03:52 < Konomi> laters FreeAsInFreedom if you're departing ~
03:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> whatever you call them
03:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> no i'm going to be the last one standing
03:53 < Konomi> battery packs charged ;p ?
03:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> i'm just going to do other shit for a while, this is going nowhere fast
03:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> there are already other slashdot clones
03:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> that bus has left the station
03:53 < castrox> if only there was an ignore command...
03:53 < amblivious> like /ignore?
03:53 < castrox> amblivious, whoosh.
03:53 < omoc> xD
03:54 < amblivious> oh, sorry
03:54 < Konomi> FreeAsInFreedom: link is neat
03:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> yeah konomi
03:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> just the other day I built a transmitter
03:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have one of those old radio shack "250 in 1" experiment stations for kids
03:54 < FreeAsInFreedom> i got it at goodwill for $1
03:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> found a 3.575 MHz crystal and other junk from a cordless phone i took apart
03:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> it puts out like 1/2 watt
03:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> but I regularly work japan on 3-5w
03:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> a guy about 200 miles away could barely hear me but I had a crappy little wire for an antenna, when I hook it to my dipole in the yard I think I can go at least 500 miles
03:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> my next project is to use a 555 timer ic to synthesize the oscillation and work any frequency up to about 30 MHz
03:56 < omoc> how much would hosting cost/month in the short term?
03:57 < omoc> I have no idea what kind of traffic to expect
03:57 < Konomi> I imagine the phrase a lot would cover it
03:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> if you get a fraction of /.'s traffic you can expect to pay $10k / day or more
03:57 < Konomi> I guess that's if all the user base came though so
03:57 < Konomi> I doubt there'd be a lot needed in the early stages
03:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> and people will hack the shit out of you too
03:58 < stderr_dk> If there are no users, we can host the site on my ADSL... :-)
03:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> you will be running a 24/7 pwn2own
03:58 < Konomi> while I wouldn't put it that way you'd definitly be the butt of a lot of attacks
03:58 < castrox> why not just keep it text only. That way there's very little bandwidth already.
03:58 < stderr_dk> But I highly doubt that will work, if we get any users at all.
03:58 < Konomi> slashdot is practically text only already really
03:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> another benefit of usenet
03:59 < Konomi> it's just a few green bars and icons
03:59 < omoc> beta is full of big useless images xD
03:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> no need to defend against attacks or pay for bandwidth
03:59 < Konomi> minus the video/media specific stuff of course
03:59 < Konomi> omoc: true ;p
03:59 < stderr_dk> The stuff nobody watches because it's flash?
04:00 < FreeAsInFreedom> what blows my mind is that slashdot doesn't use ogg vorbis for the video
04:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> i guess it was years ago that they abandoned the pretense of having the thing be about openness
04:01 < omoc> ogg vorbis? opus is the new hip stuff these days :P
04:01 < FreeAsInFreedom> now it's a google suck and fuck fest
04:01 < Konomi> stderr_dk: I mostly avoid the slashdot videos cause the audio quality is awful
04:01 < omoc> no one cares about the videos I guess
04:01 < stderr_dk> I wouldn't know. I don't have flash.
04:01 < amblivious> they have videos?
04:02 < Konomi> amblivious: here and there on some articles
04:02 < stderr_dk> Anyway... I'm off to work. :-(
04:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> my old neighbor was chief counsel for google for years, then joined obama's cyber team, and is now back with google
04:02 < Konomi> the audio quality is always so awful I can't endure them
04:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have talked with him about google and it is essentially his opinion that open source is a pool of useful idiots
04:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> this is the corporate culture once you start making more than bay area programmer salary
04:03 < Konomi> I really see no excuse for that audio quality on such a large site to decent mics are not expensive these days
04:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> they let the 19 year old kids working 90 hours a week believe it's all about openness though
04:04 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, the open source philosophy is solid. It doesn't need warm cuddly hugs from corporations to exist.
04:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> castrox, i know
04:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> but google is predatory
04:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> over 1/3rd of their employees are on mindfuck anti-psychotics or anti-depressants
04:05 < castrox> citation needed.
04:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> steve jobs had to whip his employees, the googlers whip themselves like penitent monks from the 1200s
04:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> castrox, this is from a personal conversation with a very high ranking googler who lived 3 doors down the street from me when I grew up
04:05 < omoc> amblivious: what about a kickstarter to get money for initial hosting and create a foundation, I'm not a big fan but it would serve the purpose
04:06 < Konomi> kickstarter might work really well
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04:06 < Konomi> you'd really need to make sure you make enough to transition to a stable income system though
04:06 < amblivious> omoc: I feel similarly but I don't think there is time if we're talking about 3 weeks. I think we may have to resort to begging.
04:06 < FreeAsInFreedom> but, castrox, last I heard 40% of the population of the USA has been on one kind of mindfuck psychomed or another in their life
04:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> so it seems better than the national average!
04:07 < omoc> you only need two weeks to fill the kickstarter and acquire money, say foundation membership for 1 year and so on
04:07 < amblivious> hrm
04:07 < omoc> later you generate money with ads for the foundation or membership fees
04:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> shit omoc
04:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> people are not paying fees
04:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> and almost all of slashdot blocks the ads
04:07 < omoc> its optional
04:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> the only revenue is slashvertisements
04:08 < omoc> just to create the foundation alive
04:08 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, see Koyaanisqatsi.
04:08 < omoc> I'm just rambling here
04:08 < juggs> anyone know a shell provider who can setup quickly?
04:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> castrox, are you kidding me?
04:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> not only have I seen it
04:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> i've been to many philip glass concerts
04:09 < acposter> juggs: digital ocean
04:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> and I know the guy who ran the digger about halfway through
04:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> the badger
04:09 < acposter> prgmr.com hostigation.com
04:09 < acposter> also very good
04:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> he was a friend of my grandpa
04:09 < FreeAsInFreedom> but you're missing the point
04:10 < amblivious> I think we may be talking about a whole other class of hosting
04:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> if you guys expect this to work
04:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> you need something like amazon
04:11 < amblivious> I bet it will have to ensure a ddos in the first week or two if we manage to pull any decent amount of interest.
04:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> pay a nickel an hour or whatever if it sucks
04:11 < amblivious> *endure
04:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> and if it takes off you pay like $10-50k a day
04:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> better have a good accountant
04:11 < amblivious> yeah, could be massive hosting fees.
04:11 < juggs> thanks acposter
04:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> so it's back to usenet, where there are no fees
04:12 < acposter> np
04:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> or some kind of integrated bittorent client
04:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> the more people that log in, the mode bandwidth you have
04:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> but that's been patented
04:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> if you make any revenue some vampire will emerge from the shadows and drain you quicker than you can say uncle
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04:14 < omoc> I'm off to change location, back in 45min; cu guys
04:14 < Konomi> laters
04:14 < amblivious> bye
04:14 < acposter> http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4762071&cid=46183913
04:14 < acposter> FreeAsInFreedom: is that you
04:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> i prefer not to identify myself across sites
04:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's between me and the NSA
04:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> but just for your elucidation, no
04:16 < acposter> lol
04:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> i guess it's not an identification if I say an ac isn't me
04:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> any particular one anyway
04:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> i mean i wish you guys luck with your hare-brained and expensive scheme to rip off slashdot
04:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> but i don't trust the idea
04:18 -!- omoc [~omoc@1-64-6-238.static.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
04:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> and this is the problem as I see it
04:18 < acposter> best bet is to just jump over to kuro5hin
04:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have been a member there for many years
04:19 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen] has joined ##altslashdot
04:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> but you can not create a new account without paying rusty and he isn't checking his mail
04:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> so, if you didn't get in k5 when the getting was good there's no getting in now
04:20 < acposter> oh i didnt know
04:20 < acposter> i just figure seems like theyve changed not much
04:20 < acposter> compared to [blank\
04:20 < acposter> \
04:20 -!- Norm_ [~Norm@81.213.109.192] has left ##altslashdot ["Leaving"]
04:20 -!- jepoy12 [d04b0a32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.75.10.50] has joined ##altslashdot
04:20 < jepoy12> anyone here
04:20 < Subsentient> yes
04:21 < jepoy12> Are you guys still looking for people?
04:21 < pr0ntab> yo
04:21 < pr0ntab> we are looking for ... something
04:21 < acposter> yea
04:21 < pr0ntab> maybe what we really want is to start a google hangout
04:22 < jepoy12> i see
04:22 < pr0ntab> and just like, totally kick it and share vines
04:22 < acposter> yea whats all your twitters
04:22 < pr0ntab> and our most complex formula we drew on the whiteboard
04:22 < pr0ntab> @pr0ntab, nigga
04:22 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has left ##altslashdot ["the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer"]
04:23 < acposter> FreeAsInFreedom: and his federated multiplex moderation server running on modified usenet decentralized pay to mod no one will ever understand or use system
04:23 < pr0ntab> Why don't we use MIME for more message interchange anyway?
04:23 < pr0ntab> errybody wanna use XML-RPC
04:24 < jepoy12> if you guys need help with systems administration I am available
04:24 < pr0ntab> do you know lunix
04:24 < jepoy12> also well versed with automation using puppet and AWS
04:24 < pr0ntab> oh my lord elastic beanstalker
04:24 < jepoy12> yes
04:24 < jepoy12> nut never used the beanstalker
04:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> don't bullshit me acposter
04:24 < jepoy12> but never used the beanstalker
04:24 < pr0ntab> he's very dangerous
04:25 < acposter> youre the one bullshitting not me
04:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> my idea is the only one i've heard that has legs and doesn't need a venture capatalist
04:25 < pr0ntab> watch out for that guy
04:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> heh
04:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> capitalist
04:25 < Subsentient> $$burrito acposter and FreeAsInFreedom
04:25 * aqu4 chucks a nasty, rotten burrito at acposter and FreeAsInFreedom
04:25 < pr0ntab> he stalks beans
04:25 < jepoy12> who stalks beabs here
04:25 < jepoy12> who stalks beans here
04:25 < pr0ntab> the beanstalker, duh
04:26 < acposter> sorry, im just not hopeful of anything coming about
04:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> your idea is what, clone slashdot, with no money, no code but for antiquated slashcode, no business plan, and with all the pitfalls that slashdot has but "on my honor" it won't go down like it is now again
04:26 < Subsentient> acposter: I'll get you more laxative.
04:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> my idea is move to the fucking place where this shit can't happen again
04:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> and let the other pieces develop as they may
04:26 < pr0ntab> I think you should move to canada, then.
04:27 < acposter> slashdot was an era in time spawned by many factors that happened upon at the right place and time
04:27 < acposter> and that era is gone
04:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> bullshit, socrates died rather than leaving athens
04:27 < Subsentient> Truth is, we're under attack. The intelligence of tech is under siege by shiney touchscreens with big, fruity, shiney looking buttons.
04:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> plus they would not allow me to bring my extensive collection of assault rifles and handguns to canada
04:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> oh bullshit
04:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's under attack by marketing fucks
04:28 < Subsentient> That too.
04:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> who are exemplified by Google
04:28 < Subsentient> Google == evil
04:28 < acposter> vic gundotra is evil
04:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> apple just makes a shitload of money off nice phones and tablets and the best god damn unix OS ever
04:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> apple hate is pure sour grapes
04:29 < Subsentient> Whatever. Droid is the big issue nowadays.
04:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> droid is the ultimate spyware
04:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's a trap like none other and the open source community fell in dick first
04:30 < cwix> stfu
04:30 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:30 < Subsentient> People fork over more than for a PC for a disposable, unupgradeable piece of trash with a burned in OS and all the productivity of My first computer TM by Fisher Price.
04:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> subsentient
04:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's somewhat true
04:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> but I guess it depends on what you use your computer for
04:30 < FreeAsInFreedom> take the ipad
04:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have something called a pigtail for it
04:31 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: Coding, hacking, stuff that requires window management, stuff that uses external storage, stuff that gets the chip hot enough to melt tungsten.
04:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> i can bring that thing into the woods and use it with my little battery powered ham radio, and log into my god damned server at home without any infrastructure whatsoever
04:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> i paid money for it but so what?
04:31 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: So what? You're forced to use android. We are Borg.
04:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> there is no functional equivalent on the droid
04:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> plus my ipad has fucking final fantasy tactics suckers
04:32 < Subsentient> Want Fedora? Hope you got one of 0.0001% of phones that let you do a custom OS.
04:32 < pr0ntab> i have final fantasy tactics on this laptop
04:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> best square game ever
04:32 < pr0ntab> because i ripped my own copy of the disk
04:32 < pr0ntab> and ... psx emulators are like... super stable and ubiquitous now
04:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> except
04:33 < pr0ntab> so i'm pretty sure I could drop it on a droid device (if i had one right now)
04:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> i can run mine in a package that weighs a negligable amount
04:33 * Subsentient is really, really, REALLY angry about burned in OSes and stupid people walking into water fountains with their Galaxy S4s.
04:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> for $12 I didn't mind
04:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> who cares?
04:33 < pr0ntab> and I have a 3ds
04:33 < pr0ntab> and i'm about to pay $40 for bravely default
04:33 < FreeAsInFreedom> computers are just appliances for the 99% and have been since about 1984
04:33 < pr0ntab> like right this second
04:33 < pr0ntab> because... i want to
04:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> how many people out of a hundred could code a "hello world" even if they had every major language installed on their OS?
04:34 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: But without that 1%, there would be no 99%.
04:34 < pr0ntab> what was your point though
04:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> subsentient
04:34 < acposter> does anyone like firefox os if there was a good phone for it???
04:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> you are missing my point
04:34 < Subsentient> Your point is that for most it doesn't matter.
04:34 < Subsentient> I know dammit, but it's about the future. If they can get away with this now, it's only going to get wors.e
04:34 < FreeAsInFreedom> the 1% will always, always find a way to make their computing needs come true
04:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> there will always be a need for developers
04:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> there is so much god damn computer 'waste' out there that still runs that you could make Iceland 100' higher above sea level with it
04:35 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: For $10,000 for a workstation that's basically a beefed up PC tower? No thanks. I'd rather keep buying $500 PCs.
04:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> i am using a mac mini right now
04:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> it has a dual core i7
04:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> it was pretty cheap
04:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> it came with an OS that works with a shitload of software I already own
04:36 < Subsentient> You are forced to use Java on Android, you're forced to use ObjC on iOS, you can't change the OS, you can't plug in a USB drive, and you can't remove google's/apple's spying.
04:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> i use it to do work that you literally can not do on linux
04:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> linux has no color profiling system worth a shit
04:36 < cwix> Jeeze when did this devolve into a mac love fest
04:36 < FreeAsInFreedom> to me that is something I make real money with
04:36 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: And you think that if tablets keep going, that the mac mini will still be sold
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> god damn it it's not
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> of course
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> how can people code on the ipad?
04:37 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: That's my fucking point.
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> apple makes billions on people coding with macs for the ipad
04:37 < Subsentient> Most people don't code.
04:37 < Subsentient> They watch netflix and play angry birds
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> so what?
04:37 < Subsentient> So...
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> so...
04:37 -!- stdhell [~pohol@hms1.imm.dtu.dk] has joined ##altslashdot
04:37 < FreeAsInFreedom> who makes their applications?
04:38 < Subsentient> That means that regular PCs will stop being available, at least for cheap
04:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's not true
04:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's an alarmist scenario
04:38 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but that's what it looks like.
04:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> the only thing that will stop new general purpose PCs from being sold is world war
04:38 < FreeAsInFreedom> bank on it
04:39 < FreeAsInFreedom> we can extrapolate all kinds of shit from current trends
04:39 < Subsentient> Well, I'm afraid I have derailed this topic accidentally, so I'll fade back to the cyan void for now.
04:39 < FreeAsInFreedom> like, babies will have google glass 2.0 installed in their right eye socket after having their eyeball removed with a grapefruit spoon
04:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> drones like Robocop will stand around and shoot jaywalkers
04:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> this apple shit is sour grapes
04:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> let's look at the real problems
04:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> there are only really three
04:40 < FreeAsInFreedom> lawyers, marketers, and politicians
04:41 * Subsentient wasn't aware that apples had rectums
04:41 < FreeAsInFreedom> each worse than the last
04:41 * Subsentient supposes he should have known what that hexagonal brown thing on the bottom was
04:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> but fuck dice anyway
04:42 -!- art_ [d46ab51a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.106.181.26] has joined ##altslashdot
04:42 < Subsentient> +1
04:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> i knew this shit-train was headed for a shit-nado when they took over
04:42 < art_> user base migration ideas?
04:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> usenet
04:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> i like it
04:42 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's free, uncensored, decentralized, and needs no new code or anything
04:43 < Subsentient> ZDNet? CNet? Another tech news site whose contributors are all marketers and economists
04:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's already there and humming quietly away
04:43 < art_> slashcode is free, why not reuse it?
04:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> because who is going to reuse it
04:43 < CQ> slashcode is apparently old, from around 2009, and a mess
04:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> some jerkoff will do the same shit if it takes off
04:43 < Subsentient> Oh well. I miss 2009.
04:43 < FreeAsInFreedom> nobody owns usenet and it works and already works
04:44 < Subsentient> The last of the sane days.
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> fuck that
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> i miss 2000
04:44 < Subsentient> Well, that too.
04:44 < art_> slashcode is a mess, but it is the one thing we have now
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> back before 9/11 this country was like heaven compared to now
04:44 < CQ> FreeAsInFreedom: yeah, but moderation and metamoderation are key aspects of the community as it wants to interact
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> so add them in
04:44 < CQ> to usenet??
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> create a moderation server
04:44 < FreeAsInFreedom> or better yet a protocol
04:44 < cwix> lol
04:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> so anybody can create a moderation server
04:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> subscribe to the servers you like and bam, done
04:45 -!- AZDoug [~doug@2607:fb90:603:2df4:c92f:da87:8f3c:82e5] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
04:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> a quick seamonkey plugin and it's done
04:45 < CQ> FreeAsInFreedom: if its so auick, go do it ; )
04:45 < art_> usenet has trolling and authorisation problems, it is the main reason no one uses that
04:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have no desire to participate
04:45 < FreeAsInFreedom> i read at -1
04:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> trolling has been killed by killfiles
04:46 < pr0ntab> go color correct on your ipad that, jesus
04:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> this happened in like what, 1994 or so?
04:46 < pr0ntab> s/that/then
04:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> i don't do color critical work on the ipad
04:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> just on my mac here
04:46 < cwix> lmfao
04:46 < pr0ntab> what color critical work do you do
04:46 < pr0ntab> i want to hear about this
04:46 < FreeAsInFreedom> photogrammetry
04:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> i'm not some fuckoff catalog designer
04:47 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen] has joined ##altslashdot
04:47 < pr0ntab> For custom sensors?
04:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> you don't even know what photogrammetry is do you?
04:47 < pr0ntab> Space imaging?
04:47 < Subsentient> FreeAsInFreedom: A regular one then/
04:47 < FreeAsInFreedom> the sensors are COTS
04:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> the platforms aren't
04:48 < FreeAsInFreedom> and that's about all I will say
04:48 < juggs> acposter, I rescind my thanks digitalocean put be straight into their "abuse detection" category after they got my payment of course.
04:48 < pr0ntab> I've only heard of that term used to describe the process for analyzing light coming in from sats for foliage detection and stuff
04:48 -!- asdfhhjjhgffddaa [~kvasir@175.159.64.43] has joined ##altslashdot
04:49 < art_> one thing: usenet did not work and is slowly abandoned, slashcode did work
04:49 < pr0ntab> but that's done with analytical tools, not something you need to have color accuracy "live" to work with
04:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> prontab it describes the general field of photo analysis, recording, interpretation, and processing
04:49 < pr0ntab> so then it's a hobby for you?
04:49 < acposter> sorry i have no idea
04:49 < pr0ntab> photo-tinkering?
04:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> no
04:49 < acposter> never had any issues
04:49 < FreeAsInFreedom> heh
04:49 < CQ> art: usenet did work, but was superseded by things like blogs, wikis, slashcode like sites, etc.
04:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> i make money at it
04:50 < FreeAsInFreedom> if I was tinkering i'd use the gimp
04:50 < CQ> art: and especially search, today you search, back then you subscribed to categories
04:50 < art_> what about beginning with slashcode, and then slowly make a new, distributed, decentralised framework whatever...
04:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> I use matlab and c
04:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> and sometimes FPGAs
04:51 < pr0ntab> Well okay then, that makes sense
04:51 < Subsentient> aqu4: $$quit
04:51 < pr0ntab> but what does having a color-accurate display have to do with anything unless you're doing a side by side comparison of like... something in an optic viewfinder with something on a screen
04:51 < Subsentient> $$quit
04:51 < aqu4> See you around.
04:51 -!- aqu4 [~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen] has quit [Quit: aqu4bot baking shutting down.]
04:51 < FreeAsInFreedom> in the old days i'd have bought a frickin $20,000 SGI
04:51 -!- Subsentient [~WhiteRat@unaffiliated/subsen] has quit [Quit: brb]
04:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> now I can get by even better on a $999 macintosh
04:52 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's cheap as dirt for what it does
04:52 < juggs> acposter, not blaming you of course, it's digital ocean's automated systems playing up. They do have an interface beta./. would kill for though :S
04:52 < art_> a color-accurate display won't help on all these sRGB photos/images whatever...
04:52 < cwix> Free, I am finding it sooo hard not to troll you
04:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> art, depends on your input and output, and whether it matters to color match in the processing chain
04:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> troll away
04:53 < acposter> lol yea
04:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> i've been on the internet since before you were born i'd wager
04:53 < FreeAsInFreedom> i can take it
04:54 < acposter> juggs
04:54 < art_> free as in .. yes, wide gamut is for graphic designers.. but I use it for clarity of things like Netbeans IDE, PCB layouts etc. and it works to
04:54 < acposter> there is a coupon code floating around for $10 for D.O. if you try with another payment method / email
04:55 < acposter> you can get the 1g vps theyll take your payment info but you wont have to pay anything
04:55 < acposter> for 1 month
04:55 < FreeAsInFreedom> well sometimes the lines blur between mathematician, photo editing, color matching, programming
04:55 < juggs> acposter, too late I credited y account thru PP
04:55 < juggs> and then wen sstraight to sin bin lol
04:55 < juggs> my*
04:56 < juggs> I give up correcting my typos
04:56 < art_> ok, but what about migrating slashdot user base? it would be one of the task, independent of slashcode/usenet/whatever
04:56 -!- Subsentient [~WhiteRat@unaffiliated/subsen] has joined ##altslashdot
04:56 < acposter> hostigation is good too
04:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> how do you do it art?
04:56 < FreeAsInFreedom> get on there and burn your karma spreading the word for whatever replacement you feel like promoting
04:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> for me it's usenet
04:57 < acposter> but i guess you already paid one
04:57 < FreeAsInFreedom> these guys have a "bizness plan"
04:57 < juggs> art_ I'm sure Anon can liberate the /. user database.... those precioussssses IDs :D
04:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> then do what juggs, spam them?
04:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's shady as fuck
04:58 < FreeAsInFreedom> the point of a new slashdot is that, if you want them, you have to win their TRUST
04:58 < juggs> lol it had a :D at the end. I wasn't serious
04:58 < art_> juggs, users that want to migrate might easily and securely "export" their accounts
04:59 < cwix> lol @ Juggs
04:59 < FreeAsInFreedom> art, where on my slashdot user page is the 'export account' button?
05:00 < cwix> I could see that working, you could write something that logs in as you and then scrapes your settings and history
05:00 < asdfhhjjhgffddaa> The first thing I did here is putting the Freedom Usenet guy on ignore, I cannot stand it anymore
05:00 < cwix> lmao
05:00 < art_> freeasinfreedom: it is easy... if you want to register on the fork site with a nick that is already present on slashdot, then you must use your slashdot account to post a comment that contains a given key... than you submit that comment's link to the fork site... then they allow you to register with a slashdot-identical nick
05:01 < art_> so that we know, that Anne_Nonymous is really the one from slashdot, and not a copycat
05:02 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's not bad
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05:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> did any of you use irc in the old days?
05:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> i have a set of scripts hanging around somewhere
05:03 < FreeAsInFreedom> phoenix2
05:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> fork bombs and fuckin' crapfloods and all kinds of good shit
05:04 < FreeAsInFreedom> last time I used it was on an ancient AIX machine though
05:05 < FreeAsInFreedom> these new fangled irc servers will auto kb you if you try that shit most likely
05:05 < juggs> I smell mothballs and netsplits
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05:07 < pr0ntab> can we post nsfw links here
05:07 < cwix> Honestly I haven't used IRC in probably almost 15 years. I
05:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> that's not mothballs you are smelling
05:07 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's 4350
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05:07 < art_> cwix, I have never used irc
05:07 < cwix> I know they are keeping and posting the logs, but you should be ok with the nsfw
05:08 < pr0ntab> who is they? :3
05:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> oooh, they are keeping LOGS
05:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> good fucking gravy
05:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> everything is logged these days chums
05:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> somewhere
05:08 < FreeAsInFreedom> get used to it
05:09 < cwix> Shut the fuck up
05:09 < pr0ntab> I just want to know who the audience is
05:09 < pr0ntab> (primary anyway)
05:09 -!- lamefun [~lamefun2@37.113.32.72] has left ##altslashdot ["Leaving"]
05:09 < pr0ntab> Because I want to call you all my niggas
05:10 < cwix> I dont remember the username but the logs were going up on the wiki i believe
05:10 < pr0ntab> But I'm not sure if I want certain people to know that I call just anyone that
05:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> even though you guys have been, at times, intolerable bitches
05:10 < pr0ntab> (i.e. mexicans)
05:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> i feel a kinship for you
05:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> see because we slashdotters are a clan
05:10 < FreeAsInFreedom> we can agree to disagree, or at least to let the other person fuck off kindly
05:11 < FreeAsInFreedom> but I will take you over a random group of mexicans for sure
05:11 < juggs> acposter, "Alex" got back to me and now I can use my account, he's "Sorry for inconvenience" - no explanation of course. Nicht gut.
05:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> i mean I can smell the money-grubbing jewishness in some of you
05:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> but that's just cute
05:12 < pr0ntab> i am 50% jewish
05:12 < pr0ntab> (waist down)
05:12 < FreeAsInFreedom> see, i told you i could smell it
05:13 < pr0ntab> please give me your golds before i give you your technology news
05:13 < pr0ntab> and i require interest
05:13 < art_> this channel just seems to show, that there is no serious slashdot fork in progress....
05:13 < FreeAsInFreedom> i'll give you $3 next thursday for my tech news today
05:13 < pr0ntab> not at 5AM EST
05:14 < pr0ntab> no, this is just insomniacs just bitching
05:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> see we're the original odd couple, a scot and a jew
05:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> nobody's getting a nickel
05:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> but god damn will there be arguments
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05:14 < juggs> art_ it was serious is few hours back but the comment-trolls arrived and slashdot'd it - who'd have thought that would happen :D
05:14 < omoc> re
05:14 < FreeAsInFreedom> it was not serious
05:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> it was all "let's federate some javascript, but with my buddies instead of rob and timothy"
05:15 < FreeAsInFreedom> fucking clown shoes
05:15 < juggs> umm.... no, no it really wasn't
05:15 < juggs> I've no idea when you arrived
05:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> i'm telling you, it was clown shoes
05:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> tiny feet inside
05:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> hands, smelled like cabbage
05:16 < FreeAsInFreedom> circus folk
05:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> but here's the call I am making
05:17 < juggs> ~yawn~
05:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> most people will stay with slashdot beta or no
05:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> everybody loves an abusive partner
05:17 < juggs> fuck me that's insightful
05:17 < FreeAsInFreedom> just wait and see
05:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> you'll walk into the door again
05:18 < castrox> you guys don't have a job to go to tomorrow? ;-)
05:18 * juggs waits
05:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> and it will hurt Dice more than it hurts you
05:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> castrox, i am at work
05:18 < FreeAsInFreedom> waiting for a big job to finish and a chicken in the oven
05:19 < castrox> so am I..
05:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> you have a chicken in the oven too?
05:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> fuck what a small world
05:19 < castrox> just thinking a lot of folks here seem to be from the US.
05:19 * juggs and waits
05:19 < FreeAsInFreedom> i am from the US
05:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's only 2:19 on the west coast
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05:20 < castrox> ah.
05:20 < FreeAsInFreedom> i will probably be up all night, hit my ham radio for a bit when greyline happens, and then go to sleep
05:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> anyway this city's shut down because of snow
05:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> nobody's doing anything tomorrow anyway
05:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's like slovenia but, you know, we weren't expecting it, not being in an alpine region
05:21 < FreeAsInFreedom> those assholes, shit
05:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> the whole EU is rushing in to save a mountainous alpine country from SNOW and ICE
05:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> it'd be tragic if it wasn't so funny
05:22 < castrox> what, Slovenia buried in snow?........
05:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> but, then again, laibach is from slovenia so it's a wash
05:22 < FreeAsInFreedom> yeah dude
05:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> power out in 40% of the country
05:23 < omoc> castrox: Hong Kong
05:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> half the rail lines irreparably damaged
05:23 < omoc> its just 6:23pm here
05:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> half the power generation facilities broken for sure
05:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> the polish, swiss, and czech militaries have invaded passing out MREs and generators
05:23 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's totally fucked
05:23 < castrox> omoc, cool
05:24 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, haha, nice.
05:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> they are thinking it will be 2015 before the country is even back on track again
05:24 < castrox> I'm in Sweden.. soon time for lunch.
05:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> we have a sweden in the usa
05:24 < FreeAsInFreedom> we call it minnesota
05:25 < omoc> xD
05:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> i am from there
05:25 < castrox> yeah, all deserters went there. J/K.
05:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> we consumer more lutefisk and herring per capita than you do
05:25 < cwix> Really I always thought that Minnesota was canada south
05:25 < cwix> eh
05:25 < castrox> FreeAsInFreedom, that vile fish I'll never taste again
05:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> well, we have some french canada type people in the NE part of the state
05:25 < FreeAsInFreedom> you should hear the god damn accents
05:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> if you think people in the south sound retarded, go north of Duluth
05:26 < FreeAsInFreedom> i used to talk like that too but years away and intensive shock-aversion speech therapy allowed me to have a generic AT&T operator accent
05:27 < castrox> you mean an Indian accent?
05:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> hah
05:27 < castrox> nailed it.
05:27 < FreeAsInFreedom> it's been so many years since i talked to an operator, i wasn't even sure they existed any more
05:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> last time I did, I had her break through my buddy's phone line because I thought his modem had hung
05:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> turned out his grandma died
05:28 < FreeAsInFreedom> ;-(
05:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> kinda felt bad about that one, put me off operators too
05:29 < FreeAsInFreedom> it was a more trusting world back then, you could call up AT&T and have them break a line BECAUSE I SAID SO
05:30 < juggs> acposter, help me out here! Creating a droplet on DigitalOcean and their next genius idea is this "Your root password will be emailed to you" - surely that is not the way they do things.
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05:30 < acposter> just use it like a temporary
05:31 < acposter> change it and then disable root login, create a regular user and edit sudoers
05:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> digital fucking ocean
05:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> i had one of those
05:31 < FreeAsInFreedom> it was expensive
05:32 < FreeAsInFreedom> why didn't you guys just name your site DEC?
05:32 < juggs> acposter, I guess so. Looks like they have key management right there in the ssl interface you should be able drop a pub key in and have it drop into the image.
05:33 < acposter> i only had digital ocean for like half a month now it seemed like an ok deal
05:33 < acposter> it seemed fair when i looked at other kvm
05:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> digital ocean was an expensive ass wireless networking product
05:35 < FreeAsInFreedom> for old school macintoshes
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05:36 < acposter> oh ok
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06:13 * pav5088 returns
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06:38 < pav5088> Hi Webweasel_ weex BradTheGeek
06:38 < Webweasel_> Greetings
06:38 < Webweasel_> so, dice ain't gonna listen
06:39 < pav5088> You certainly missed out on some robust discussion... :) but even logging this channel is a touchy topic
06:39 < the|navigator> What was talked about?
06:39 < Webweasel_> Yeah, came late EU time
06:39 < pav5088> Well... if they are or aren't some people are working on a stand-in... which is probably a good idea...
06:40 < Konomi> considering I can't read a single article without comments being all about the boycott I wonder how long they can ignore it ;p
06:40 < earthnative> logging the channel is a touchy topic? huh?
06:41 < Webweasel_> But its so rare for directors to change their minds
06:41 < Webweasel_> They will probably take the number of posts today as approval for beta
06:41 < the|navigator> Konomi : Those comments are starting to die down, I think.
06:41 < Webweasel_> "site stats are up, we must be right"
06:41 < Konomi> that's true anyone in charge of anything tends to get an inflated idea of what is "right"
06:41 * the|navigator is currently on the "Slashdot Tries Something New" article, so he may be behind.
06:42 < pav5088> Well... lots of fun stuff, but the DICE stuff was related to what kind of technology to use as a stopgap... I think the coders here were running with an old slashcode, but people were talking about a federated option in the longer term maybe backed by something well known like smtp or nntp with special moderating messages and a web GUI over the top to interpret eg. moderation messages
06:42 < Konomi> should be Slashdot tries something terrible
06:42 < pav5088> Perhaps slashcode will be too scarey, and/or the coders might be dreaming about their ability to breathe life into it... time will tell.
06:43 < Webweasel_> eh, The modern net has left us old geeks behind
06:43 < Webweasel_> we don't fit in anymore
06:43 < pav5088> Web dev stuff isn't my thing, so I can't really help there
06:43 < the|navigator> The "Web 3.0" Internet?
06:43 < Konomi> pft I am not that old
06:43 < Konomi> it's nota bout the old web
06:43 < Konomi> it's about mentality
06:43 < Webweasel_> I'm more talking the population of the web, yeah mentality
06:43 < art_> I'd start with slashcode, then would possibly enhance that. Not everything at once so to say. Slashcode might be messy, but d2 mode was better than the current one.
06:44 < Webweasel_> saying that kuro5hin exists, but well... no one posts
06:44 < Konomi> if not for a few years I'd have landed on the web post facebook and probably be far less technically inclined
06:44 < Konomi> Webweasel_: people wanted something easy to use this is the result
06:44 < the|navigator> Konomi : Heh. You are probably around my age.
06:45 < Konomi> the|navigator: I landed on the net when irc was popular and everyone wanted to make things ;p
06:45 < the|navigator> Around 2002?
06:45 < pav5088> Well, just keeping the site running would take a lot of blood and sweat... so I'm actually hoping DICE come to the table... but it would be good to have this sitting in the wings if all doesn't go so well.
06:45 < Konomi> yeah
06:45 < the|navigator> Most people on IRC have suggested that that was the time when IRC was most popular.
06:45 < Konomi> it was
06:45 < Konomi> I discovered it via mirc at school
06:45 < the|navigator> Seems like it.
06:45 < Konomi> and here I am on linux now hehe
06:46 < earthnative> IRC was on the decline well before 2002
06:46 < the|navigator> Decline in terms of the numbers of users?
06:46 < earthnative> (at least, that's the impression I get... I started IRCing in 1998, and got a distinct impression of "not as good/big/etc as the old days" at that time
06:46 < the|navigator> I started around 1998, but I was too young to really remember the specifics of what IRC was like back then.
06:47 < Konomi> oddly enough facebook was sending around deceptive emails at the time
06:47 < the|navigator> Nice to see people using it for this Slashdot situation, though.
06:47 < the|navigator> It still lives.
06:47 < Konomi> I actually ended up with an account cause my friend "sent" me an invite email
06:47 < art_> because irc was replaced with a host of chat things...
06:47 < Konomi> which she said she never did
06:48 < pav5088> :-/ wonderful
06:48 < earthnative> http://royal.pingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/irc.002.jpg <-- without stats pre 2003, graphs like this are a bit useless. Note that freenode is growing :)
06:48 < Konomi> irc started dieing cause it was too hard to use
06:48 < Konomi> you know for "normal" people
06:48 < the|navigator> Argh.
06:48 < the|navigator> Neat graph, by the way.
06:48 < Webweasel_> Thats what makes IRC great
06:48 < omoc> "normal" people suck
06:48 < art_> irc was cryptic, chat is "pretty".. both are more or less the same, though
06:48 < Webweasel_> It raises the bar and helps keep out the noobs
06:48 < the|navigator> Sad graph.
06:49 < earthnative> the|navigator: full blog post it's from has more: http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/04/24/irc-is-dead-long-live-irc/
06:49 < Konomi> Webweasel_: yeah exactly
06:49 < pav5088> I think it's hard to beat as a real time nerd colab tool
06:49 < the|navigator> Looks like 2005 was the most popular year.
06:49 < the|navigator> Right before MySpace became popular.
06:49 < pav5088> ...which I guess is what FreeNode has become... at least to me.
06:49 < earthnative> the|navigator: only for data since 2003 though. Efnet used to be absolutely MASSIVE...
06:50 < the|navigator> Yes.
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06:51 < pav5088> hey joj
06:52 < pav5088> Well... I think a realtime hangout isn't SO bad for the slashcott
06:52 < Webweasel_> Did anyone here see Lottie Dexter on newsnight on monday?
06:52 < joj> pav5088: yay all this week's work is done!
06:52 < pav5088> are many of you going through with the slashcott?
06:52 < Konomi> irc will always be around
06:52 < Webweasel_> That kinda person is why dice will kill slashdot
06:52 < omoc> we should tell people to come here to IRC during 10-17. Feb
06:52 < omoc> :)
06:52 < the|navigator> omoc : Yes.
06:53 < the|navigator> Give us another way to be unproductive.
06:53 < the|navigator> We all know nobody is going outside or anything like that.
06:53 < the|navigator> Some might be tempted to, but we can coax them out of it.
06:53 < pav5088> heh
06:53 < Webweasel_> ha
06:54 < earthnative> the|navigator: found a 2000 article showing efnet (and others) growing... efnet with around 65k users by my 2003. so wondering what they peaked at to be at 125k in 2003, and downhill from there...
06:54 < pav5088> I'm actually being gently nagged in another channel... I'm meant to be testing the new version of FusionDirectory...
06:54 < the|navigator> Do Slashdot editors even have the authority to influence Dice's staff?
06:54 < Webweasel_> the|navigator, from soulskills posts, it seems not
06:54 < pav5088> (I have a small part in this project)
06:54 < the|navigator> They are listening and they do care, but they seem to be powerless.
06:54 < art_> Do slashot users have the skill to create an independent site?...
06:55 < pav5088> art_, I don't '_
06:55 < pav5088> ;)
06:55 < Webweasel_> art_, yes, ofc, its more time will money and effort
06:55 < pav5088> ummmm... I might be able to help with some bits
06:55 < art_> I think there is a lot of extremely skilled devs... but you hear mostly whining
06:56 < pav5088> art_, thinking is harder to hear ;)
06:56 < Webweasel_> The problem will be tenacity, people not flaking out after a few weeks when they get bored of the project
06:56 < the|navigator> What really bothers me is that LinkedIn profile of the person in charge of this redesign.
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06:58 < pav5088> I think all that people should be aiming for is a bare minimum effort scarecrow if anything... The first option was find something else out there that fit the billl... apparently there's nothing that can support a community in the same way.
06:58 < art_> Remember the gnome story? One guy forked it to MATE, *one guy*. A lot of people use MATE. me included, and like it.
06:58 -!- crutchy [cb811792@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.129.23.146] has joined ##altslashdot
06:58 < art_> MATE is one of the default dekstops of linux mint...
06:59 < Konomi> how I miss gnome2
06:59 < omoc> art_: the problem here is that massive cost is involved to get started
06:59 < art_> MATE is a fork of gnome 2...
06:59 < omoc> hosting is not cheap
06:59 < crutchy> i still use gnome2
06:59 < Webweasel_> Certainly not with the volume of users it will get
06:59 < Konomi> art_: yeah it didn't make it into debian yet and I've already got used to kde 4.x
06:59 < art_> omoc, what about a kickstarter campaign?
06:59 < earthnative> crutchy: MATE is worth it if you liked Gnome2
06:59 < crutchy> altshalshdot should just be hosted on github
06:59 < pav5088> art_, I can't put in the effort and I know it... my (tiny) part was to encourage IRC ... I've seen it work in some other projects (Samba, FusionDirectory, OpenLDAP, Synnefo etc...)
06:59 < omoc> I suggested kickstarter earlier today :D
07:00 < Konomi> can't be boterhed changing now kde has been nice for me since 4.6 ish
07:00 < the|navigator> "Proven track record innovating and improving iconic websites (CNET.com, Dice.com, Slashdot.org, Sourceforge.net) while protecting their voice and brand integrity; extensive board level and governance experience especially with non-profit volunteer communities, open source developers, and local chapters and projects worldwide."
07:00 < Webweasel_> I'd chip in $20 for a kickstarter
07:00 < omoc> are there IRC logs somewhere for this channel
07:00 < Konomi> only if someone bothered
07:00 < the|navigator> Does FreeBSD still use the classic style of GNOME?
07:00 < earthnative> lots of people logging. finding someone willing to upload them... might be harder
07:00 < art_> pav, I can't too, as I am not a web developer. at least it would not be optimal for me to learn that web stuff. But I would certainly donate
07:01 < omoc> suggestion was: kickstarter, then create 501(c) non-profit to manage money
07:01 < Konomi> I'd upload my logs but I haven't been here long
07:01 < pav5088> omoc, I think Subsentient has a bot logging, but they'll have to be destroyed... FreeNode doesn't like logging unless it's advertised in the channel topic.
07:01 < the|navigator> pav5088 : What? Really?
07:01 < the|navigator> I guess that makes sense for privacy concerns. How would they ever enforce that?
07:01 < pav5088> the|navigator, this is what I heard...
07:01 < art_> We need someone like the MATE guy...
07:01 < earthnative> Freenode. Over administrating since 2000.
07:01 < art_> and kickstarter
07:02 < Subsentient> pav5088: My bot is not in here right now.
07:02 < pav5088> OK