Board of Directors Meeting - May 4 2015

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[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> *** SN PBC Board Meeting Starts Now***
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> This meeting is not moderated, so please be respectful.
[19:00] <@juggs> Agenda: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting
[19:00] <@matt_> Issue 1: Transfer of domains from matt_ to SN PBC.
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> you have the floor sir.
[19:00] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, are you available to do this immediately following this meeting?
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> sure
[19:00] <@matt_> great!
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> yAY
[19:01] * NCommander hits the confetti button
[19:01] * juggs sneezes
[19:01] <@matt_> Issue 1.5: it's usually a good idea to confirm everything that we did last time, so...
[19:01] <@matt_> All those in favor of adopting, approving and confirming all of the resolutions contained in the Action without a Meeting of the Board of Directors dated February 16, 2015:
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> Aye!
[19:02] <@matt_> aye!
[19:02] <@NCommander> aye
[19:02] <@NCommander> ^!
[19:02] <+CoolHand> aye
[19:02] <@matt_> So resolved!
[19:02] <@matt_> Issue 2: Progress on change of fiscal year end. _matt
[19:02] <@matt_> believe it or not, all this requires is a simple board vote, so...
[19:02] <@matt_> All those in favor of changing the Fiscal Year of the Corporation to end on June 30 of each year:
[19:02] <@mrcoolbp> Aye!
[19:02] <@matt_> Aye!
[19:02] <@NCommander> Aye
[19:02] <@matt_> So resolved.
[19:03] <@mrcoolbp> Also, as a side note, I need to check with the CPA on this
[19:03] == takyon [~takyon@Soylent/Staff/Editor/takyon] has joined #staff
[19:03] == mode/#staff [+v takyon] by juggler
[19:03] <@mrcoolbp> “registering with MA as a foreign corp. is accomplished by filing our first state return (due 3 months after the end of our FY), so I don't believe that we need to do anything on this before then. Ben, you could triple-confirm that with Mr. Mann”
[19:03] <@mrcoolbp> so I will do that on Wednesday
[19:03] * NCommander seriously <3's mrcoolbp for being our treasurer
[19:03] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ are we all set as far as Delaware goes?
[19:03] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, sounds good.
[19:04] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, yes, we are all filed and paid in delaware.
[19:04] <+Bytram> question: have we filed taxes at all, and if so, when and for what fiscal year?
[19:04] <@mrcoolbp> not yet
[19:04] <@matt_> we can change the fiscal year by amending our DE return at any time.
[19:04] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ okay
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ let’s remember to do that = )
[19:05] <@matt_> Bytram, we filed our annual Delaware franchise tax return (and paid the tax: about $450).
[19:05] <+Bytram> oh,yeah... and we became a PBC on July 4, right?
[19:05] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, will do.
[19:05] <@matt_> Bytram, yes, easy to remember :)
[19:05] <+Bytram> yuppers! thanks for the info!
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: yes, and additionally, we don’t expect to pay any tax for this fiscal year
[19:05] <@matt_> are we ready for: Issue 3: Statement of current financial position by Treasurer.
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> I think so
[19:05] <+takyon> it's a complete accident that I launched IRC when this meeting started
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> = )
[19:06] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, you have the floor.
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> okay
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> Here the financial update:
[19:06] * Bytram has encountered situations where filing and stating he made no money is different from not stating anything.
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> Bank Account is at $2,561.60. The Funding progress (which accounts for all money taken in since January '15) shows $3,179 of $4,500 goal (71%).
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> That's not bad considering we have reduced our server costs that were used to get that goal, and we still have 2 months to close the gap. Furthermore, I've briefly worked up the next goal; for the 2nd half of 2015 we will need about $2,000. Review here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Finances2
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> I’ll just repaste that in case you missed it:
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> Review here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Finances2
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> Unless we can think of anything else we will need to spend money on, that's *less then half our current goal*.
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> So I’d say we are looking like we are in better shape
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> Especially if subscriptions continue to roll in around the same rate
[19:07] <@juggs> No domains coming up for renewal in that time period?
[19:07] <@juggs> or certs?
[19:07] <@paulej72> mrcoolbp: do the 2nd half numbers reflect the new server costs
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> I don’t think so
[19:07] * Bytram checks whois
[19:07] <@matt_> nope, renewal is around March
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72 aye
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> some may be renewing yearly subscriptions around august
[19:08] <+audioguy> I just paid for our 'backup domain' grepnews (org com net)
[19:08] <@NCommander> If we truly get desperate, we could kill more, but it gets really ugly
[19:09] <@paulej72> yes it does
[19:09] <@juggs> Should grepnews be being paid for by the PBC rather than by audioguy ?
[19:09] <@mrcoolbp> too late ?
[19:09] <+audioguy> Consider it a gift
[19:09] <+Bytram> soylentnews.org expires: 2016-02-09T01:50:26Z and sylnt.us expires: Wed Feb 10 23:59:59 GMT 2016
[19:09] * NCommander hugs audioguy
[19:09] <+audioguy> (2 year )
[19:09] <@mrcoolbp> can we legally except gifts?
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> accept *
[19:10] <@NCommander> I think we can receive a total of $600 dollars without declaring it, but must pay taxes on the value regardless
[19:10] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i believe that we can accept, we just can't solicit.
[19:10] <+Bytram> can we offer an 'advert' thanking a donor?
[19:10] <@NCommander> grepnews.org though likely has no value beyond the registration cost (if that counts)
[19:10] <@juggs> I assume the domain is still in audioguy's name(?) - so no giftage has occurred at this point anyway :D
[19:10] <+takyon> ^
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> understood, any other questions on the finances?
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> (and thanks audioguy)
[19:11] <@NCommander> I want to note we got a $500 dollar subscription
[19:11] <+audioguy> It is, but there is not bar to switching that naywhere at any time.
[19:11] * Bytram is thinking of a plain text banner for some period of time thanking someone (who could be anonymous if they so choose) for supporting XYZ
[19:11] * NCommander will not name the person who bought it, but some people are awesome
[19:11] <+Bytram> ^^ agree
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> Aye, that person is fantastic!
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> Thanks to them
[19:11] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: question - what are our current server costs like?
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> about $260, hang on
[19:11] <@NCommander> It should be lower than that
[19:12] <+Bytram> how many servers did we used to have and what do we have now?
[19:12] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72 ^
[19:12] <@NCommander> Lighthouse was moved to my personal linode account
[19:12] <+Bytram> paulej72++ # for consolidation efforts
[19:12] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 12
[19:12] <@NCommander> We killed carbon, and nitrogen
[19:12] <@NCommander> We wanted to put a bullet in beryllium but that proved to be too much pain
[19:12] <@paulej72> I kept the backups for helium, bery and boron with linode for 20/month.
[19:12] <@paulej72> belt and suspenders
[19:13] * NCommander notes bery is our white elephant -_-;
[19:13] <+Bytram> ISTR we had 7 servers before consolidation? H He Be B C N O
[19:13] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: Okay, I beleive our server costs are down to $271.64 / month
[19:13] <+audioguy> ubuntu os the white elepant :-)
[19:13] <@NCommander> hydrogen is out of service, but will return with the rehash rewrite. helium is doing minimal duty
[19:13] <@NCommander> audioguy, let's not rehash this argument
[19:13] <@paulej72> let me get the real number
[19:14] <+Bytram> I apologoize, I didn't want us to run down a rat hole, was just trying to get a feel for how much we've saved by the consolidation
[19:14] <@mrcoolbp> I’m showing 7 servers active
[19:14] <@mrcoolbp> plus the node balancer
[19:14] <@juggs> So we killed 2?
[19:14] <@mrcoolbp> Carbon and Nitrogen looks like
[19:15] <@NCommander> 2x2 for the frontend, plus boron as the staff box, and bery
[19:15] <@juggs> Cool - every little helps
[19:15] <@paulej72> 270/month
[19:15] <@NCommander> oxygen for offsite backup
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> aye
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> forgot that one
[19:15] <@NCommander> And lithium, which strictly speaking is the most expendable, but you'll get a dev riot if we retire it
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> that’s $10 /month
[19:15] <@paulej72> plus nodebalancer
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> oxygen is $10/month
[19:15] <@juggs> I appreciate the time paulej72 put into the culling to save what seems like such a small amount
[19:16] <@NCommander> The problem is everything is intertangled with each other :(
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> absolutely, nice work
[19:16] <@NCommander> Even retiring nitrogen, which was chillax was a pain
[19:16] <@NCommander> though once rehash goes live, we shouldn't have any single points of failure in our infrastructure
[19:16] <@juggs> :D
[19:16] <+Bytram> may not seem like much per month, but over time it really adds up.
[19:16] <@paulej72> other than ldap :(
[19:17] <@mrcoolbp> Do we have any other questions/discussion on finances?
[19:17] <@NCommander> paulej72, that's on my TOKILL list
[19:17] <@NCommander> paulej72, and boron kicks in as a backup, it just makes everything go much slower
[19:17] <+Bytram> I have nothing further atm
[19:17] <@juggs> I though Helium is ldap master and Boron ldap slave?
[19:17] <@NCommander> juggs, that's the theory. It only semi-works in practice
[19:17] <@juggs> boo
[19:17] <@paulej72> No boron is no longer a viable ldap backup after 14_10 update
[19:17] <@NCommander> Wait
[19:17] <@NCommander> we upgraded to 14.10?
[19:18] <@NCommander> THat's not a good thing
[19:18] <@paulej72> 14_04 sorry
[19:18] <@NCommander> *phew*
[19:18] <@NCommander> I thought I fixed boron's LDAP
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> guys, lets try to stay on topic here
[19:18] <@NCommander> SOrry
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> np
[19:18] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, ready for the next issue?
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> I think so
[19:18] <@paulej72> NCommander: not sure we got it working, you may have been thinking of fiking Hydrogen
[19:18] <@matt_> Issue 4: Approve Treasurer CPA spend of ~$1200 (Treasurer to itemise retainer vs. one-off fees here).
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> okay: CPA wants a retainer of $500, invoices would follow as services are provided and payment is due on receipt. The year the expense would fall into is subject to discussion.
[19:19] <@NCommander> Absolutely no issues with this, though I'd like it itemized before an actual aye
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander read above
[19:19] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, you ninjaed me :P
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> = )
[19:19] <@juggs> that's rare
[19:19] <+Bytram> could someone please explain what a 'reatiner' is?
[19:19] <+Bytram> *retainer
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> it means we are engaging his services
[19:20] <@NCommander> Bytram, basically, we pay the CPA $500 up front, and the initial expenses come from that, then addition feels come out of it.
[19:20] <+Bytram> and periodically we send more $ to replenish it?
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> We are estimating spending around $1200, I’m going to do everything I can to keep that cost down, including inputting the transactions myself manually if possible
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: kinda
[19:20] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, I remain available to help you with that.
[19:21] <+Bytram> good enough for me; thanks!
[19:21] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: cool, but you might have to come to MA for that = )
[19:21] <@juggs> Bytram, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retainer_agreement
[19:21] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, thats much more realistic than it used to be
[19:21] <+Bytram> juggs: thnx
[19:21] <@matt_> are there any other questions on this or are we ready for a vote?
[19:21] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, after May 17th, I should be able to travel freely for the following month
[19:21] <+Bytram> NCommander: if you do come, pencil in june 14
[19:21] <@juggs> Bytram, , kinda gives you the idea, but that wiki explanation is specific to lawyers
[19:22] <@NCommander> I think we can vote
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> FYI: So basically vote at hand will approve me to spend up to $1200 on the CPA, more than that we will have to approve with the board
[19:22] <+Bytram> juggs: thanks for the clarification
[19:22] <@matt_> All those in favor of authorizing and directing the Treasurer to (i) engage a CPA on behalf of the Corporation, (ii) file any and all necessary tax returns and other filings on behalf of the Corporation, and (iii), use funds from the Corporation's accounts to pay any and all taxes and fees arising from (i) and (ii):
[19:22] <@NCommander> aye on all points.
[19:22] <@matt_> Aye!
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> Aye!
[19:22] <@matt_> So resolved.
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> great, should we open up the floor?
[19:23] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, sounds good. any other business?
[19:23] <@paulej72> and let everyone fall to the sharks below
[19:23] * juggs falls into the shark pit beneath the floor
[19:23] <@juggs> uch
[19:23] * Bytram drains the tank
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> The Floor is open for any items that are off agenda, does anyone have any questions or matters to bring before the board?
[19:24] <+Bytram> I have one thing that's been lingering for awhile
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram has the floor
[19:24] <+Bytram> I mentioned it at a staff meeting awhile ago and took a start at it, but needs to be followed through on
[19:24] <+Bytram> soylentnews needs copyright notices on the site
[19:24] <@NCommander> Second note
[19:24] * Bytram is scanning wiki
[19:25] <@NCommander> I'd like to license the site content CC-BY or similiar for all future posts and comments
[19:25] <@paulej72> give me verbage and I'll add it to the templates where needed
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> Privacy Policy, Staff Manual, and Copyright notices are all on the todo, but I don’t think anyone is working on them
[19:25] <@NCommander> If we ever piss off the community to point they want to fork, it would be hypocritical of us not to.
[19:25] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: that was the thing I was trying to locate
[19:25] <@NCommander> ^let them do so "easily"
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> sure
[19:26] == SirFinkus [~SirFinkus@q-37-359-375-883.hsd6.wa.comcast.net] has joined #staff
[19:26] <@paulej72> NCommander: we can't license comments as CC-BY as we do not own them
[19:26] <+Bytram> found it: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/SoylentNews_Policy_Document#Privacy.2C_Copyright.2C_Disclaimers.2C_Terms_of_Use.2C_and_DMCA
[19:26] <@paulej72> we eat least have that verbage on the site
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> FYI not sure this is board-decision stuff, I think this all falls under day-to-day operations
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> Privacy Policy might be a board thing though
[19:26] <@NCommander> paulej72, this won't be retroactive, simply going forward
[19:27] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: good point, but this has been lingering for quite a while and it is my concern that there may be repercussions if we don't get these posted
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> good point, thanks for brining it up
[19:27] <@paulej72> sure, but by licensing them as cc-by does that mean we hold ownership or are we forcing the owner to license them as cc-by
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> I suggest we send these things out to the staff-list with a review period of 1 week or so
[19:28] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i think that having the corp. take a legal position like adopting a copyright policy would probably be a good thing to have the board consider and vote on.
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ yeah I changed my mind and agree
[19:28] <@juggs> aye
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> let’s send these to the staff for review
[19:28] <@NCommander> As a note
[19:28] <@NCommander> Anythign affecting the community, we *need* to post it publicly, and get feedback. We're not DICE.
[19:29] * NCommander still remembers subscriptions 1.0
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so staff first, then post on the site before we make an official decision maybe?
[19:29] <@NCommander> Yeah
[19:29] <+Bytram> NCommander: agreed, but what I'd written so far, is not yet fit for public consumption; it is stiull a *draft* and is in great need of other input
[19:29] <+Bytram> ninjad
[19:29] <@NCommander> Bytram, we have a community, leverage it :)
[19:29] <@juggs> :D
[19:29] <+Bytram> I got the ball rolling, I need someone else to take the ball now
[19:30] <+CoolHand> Bytram: can you post draft as a story on dev server for staff to comment on?
[19:30] <@mrcoolbp> I think the privacy policy is in a decent state thanks to TMB
[19:30] <+audioguy> How about the users? Any change in copyright expectatins will affect their past comments.
[19:30] <@paulej72> we have a staff slash server, but the new staff do not have logins
[19:30] <@paulej72> yet
[19:30] <+Bytram> dev is subject to destruction... maybe 'another' place would be good.
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: the plan is to post to the main page for review with them once we have something decent
[19:31] <@NCommander> audioguy, which why it won't be retroactive. Old comments/stories will remain in the legal limbo they're in right now.
[19:31] <+audioguy> Would be nice to cleanup that limbo.
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> hmm
[19:31] <+Bytram> and THAT is why I am bringing this up again.
[19:31] <@NCommander> audioguy, couldn't be done unless we contact everyone. Strictly speaking with AC, we could possibly get away with it.
[19:31] <@juggs> If nothing is stated, then surely the copyright still lies with the author no?
[19:32] <+audioguy> Twiki has a a 'web' for staff already set up and everyone should have access through kerberos
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: not all the new staff has kerberosis, no need to keep this private I think
[19:32] <@NCommander> I'm not sure of the exact legal terms, but if a work has no known creator, it may fall into the public domain. There was a few court cases on this specific issue, but damned if I can remember them
[19:32] <+Bytram> that's what it says atop the omments for a story: "The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. "
[19:32] <@paulej72> the new eds do not have kerberos logins, they need to provide ssh keys for that to be set up
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: though I think we aren’t taking advantage of that system yet
[19:33] <@NCommander> paulej72, the kerberos database is seperate from LDAP, just create a principle for them.
[19:33] <+takyon> do we need a change to copyright policy?
[19:33] <@paulej72> they need to be able to set their passwords
[19:33] * NCommander sighs
[19:33] <@juggs> takyon, we need A copyright policy :D
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> takyon: I think we need to more formalize and approve one
[19:33] <@NCommander> Remind me to write a simple and dirty kerbneros password change script
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: write a simple and dirty kerbneros password change script
[19:34] <@NCommander> takyon, the world won't end if we don't; slashdot went 20 years without one, but I rather not have us in limbo.
[19:34] <@NCommander> !todo write a simple and dirty kerberos pw changer
[19:34] <Bender> todo item 8 added
[19:34] <@NCommander> ... I have todos?
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> heh
[19:34] <+CoolHand> lol
[19:35] <@NCommander> I have another point to bring up if we're through w/ copyright and license stuff
[19:35] <+Bytram> is there anything else on the copyright, etc stuff?
[19:35] <+cmn32480> I believe that some of the new editors DO have Kerberos logins
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: On the copyright policy, give it a once over tonight, then send it out to staff for review
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> I’ll work on the other items
[19:35] <@NCommander> I generated a bunch last time mrcoolbp added some and emailed them passwords
[19:35] <+Bytram> if we're not at this too long, I should be able to do that.
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> oh well good
[19:36] * Bytram will post on staff server with a link in email
[19:36] <@NCommander> yay
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> I think we are wrapping up. The floor is still open if anyone has anything else on this or other items?
[19:36] <+takyon> how about that disagree mod bug/issue, paulej72
[19:36] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: just a quick questions
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> sure
[19:36] <+Bytram> is there anyone here who needs voice?
[19:36] <@NCommander> takyon, can you summarize the bug? I wasn't aware of it
[19:36] <@juggs> Bytram, channel is not moderated
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: negative, we are non-moderated
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> damn, ninja
[19:36] <+takyon> if you mod a post Disagree, you can then mod that post Underrated or Overrated
[19:36] <+Bytram> oops. nvm.
[19:37] <+takyon> probably the same with Agree if that gets added
[19:37] <@NCommander> ideally, the mod bar should vanish if you've alreayd moderated a post.
[19:37] <+Bytram> takyon: so, we could get '+5 Disagree' ??
[19:37] <+takyon> I don't mean the same person modding a comment twice
[19:37] <@mrcoolbp> that was always the idea Bytram
[19:37] * Bytram smiles at the irony
[19:37] <@paulej72> takyon: I have not looked at it yet, or submitted a proper bug for it yet
[19:37] <@NCommander> Bytram, takyon, that can already happen. Disagree is implemented as a +0 mod
[19:38] <+Bytram> k
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> I think takyon is saying that Underrated is meant only for things with negative mods
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> but again this is general operations stuff
[19:39] <+Bytram> I have nothing more
[19:39] <@matt_> <@NCommander> I have another point to bring up if we're through w/ copyright and license stuff
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> ^^
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: you have the floor
[19:40] <@NCommander> This isn't strictly a board item, but since all the staff are here, this seems like the right venue
[19:40] <@NCommander> For those who weren't around 4/1, we did a massive community event which was accepted postively all around
[19:40] <@NCommander> I'd like for us to do more of those, and regularly
[19:41] <+takyon> you mean the event where that one guy droned on while playing rouge-alikes?
[19:41] <@NCommander> Since they really show that we (the staff) are humans, and not drones sitting in cubicles
[19:41] <@NCommander> takyon, yeah, that guy! certifiable he is :)
[19:41] <@NCommander> takyon, we had mrcoolbp, Bytram and a few others on the stream with me, which is why I been thinking a lot about it
[19:41] <@paulej72> arn't we all certifiable
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> yes
[19:42] <@juggs> The 4/1 was really well done - outrageous (but real) stories just when people were expecting fool nonsense. Most classy I though :)
[19:42] <+audioguy> So you want April Fools Day to happen more often? :-)
[19:42] <+takyon> I nominate Dark Souls as the next game
[19:42] <@NCommander> audioguy, not exactly, just an event where people can come, interact with the staff, and throw tomatos if they so choose
[19:42] <+Bytram> I suspect we are all *here* because we are not *all* here
[19:42] <@paulej72> Doom
[19:42] * NCommander rather play Duke Nukem 3D vs Doom.
[19:42] <+CoolHand> stay on target
[19:42] <@NCommander> Anyway
[19:43] <@NCommander> The point is, the staff tend to be shrouded in a veil of mystery
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> a little
[19:43] <@paulej72> misery
[19:43] * juggs jiggles the veil away
[19:43] <+audioguy> The editors seem to be well known.
[19:43] <+CoolHand> well know/hated, same thing eh?
[19:43] <+audioguy> Sure :-)
[19:43] <@NCommander> We may comment of some articles here or there, but in general, there isn't a lot of outlets to talk to us except IRC, and usually its either mrcoolbp or myself since we're the two most frequent posters to the Soylent category
[19:44] <@NCommander> er, IRC, or an outreach article
[19:44] <+audioguy> Staff comments on articles, we could have a littel morker someone is staff.
[19:44] <+audioguy> er marker
[19:44] <@juggs> Maybe we ought to stand up a separate forum
[19:44] <@paulej72> mrcoolbp and I were discussing a regurlar grip article once we get our meta nexus
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> ^^
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> gripe*
[19:45] <@NCommander> yay!
[19:45] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, my spelling is rubbing off on you :)
[19:45] <@mrcoolbp> was pj not me = )
[19:45] <@NCommander> Oh, I have one more thing
[19:45] <@paulej72> we would start off summarixing the previous weeks comments and possibly have a staff memeber do some xplaing
[19:45] <+takyon> embed a staff twitter on the front page
[19:45] <@NCommander> But before I get to that, lets finish this one
[19:46] <@NCommander> takyon, we could code an in-site twitter, its not like twitter is very complicated :)
[19:46] * mrcoolbp shudders
[19:46] <@paulej72> people hate the twits as much as the javascript
[19:46] * NCommander notes it still baffles me that a multibillion industry formed out of what can be reimplemented by essentially a single shell script.
[19:46] <+takyon> twits is just short contents
[19:46] <+takyon> don't blame the medium
[19:47] <@NCommander> Actually, on that point
[19:47] <@NCommander> Do we have a @SoylentNews twitter?
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> yes
[19:47] <+CoolHand> I jsut followed it the other day..
[19:47] <@paulej72> bender posts our articles
[19:47] <@NCommander> Did we ever get it that articles get posted-
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> https://twitter.com/soylentnews
[19:47] <@NCommander> Oh
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> = )
[19:47] <@NCommander> I was about to say, that sounds like a job for slashd
[19:48] * NCommander is amused our IRC bot is part of our critical infrastructure
[19:48] <+takyon> I just took it
[19:48] <@paulej72> bender uses our shotener service
[19:48] <+takyon> nvm it's taken
[19:48] <@juggs> Sounds like a more sensible place for it tbh
[19:48] <@NCommander> Low priority, but yeah
[19:48] * Bytram kinda wishes it did NOT use the shortener; I wanna know where I'm going before I follow a link.
[19:49] <@NCommander> Bytram, its a necessity for twitter
[19:49] <@NCommander> Our links are ugly
[19:49] <@paulej72> twitter is url unfriendly
[19:49] <+Bytram> oh, good point. nvm
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> oh, matt_ do we need a board vote to decide “cash” vs “accrual” accounting?
[19:49] <@NCommander> Something I'd love to fix, but we've already spent two dev cycles trying to get our links CONSISTENT
[19:49] <@NCommander> Actually trying to get them pretty and be that consistency is going to hurt.
[19:49] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, we should go with cash.
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> aye
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> CPA and I discussed "cash" vs "accrual" methods of accounting. At this stage of the company the CPA recommends "cash method" since it is simpler to track.
[19:50] <+Bytram> ISTR that cash accounting is much less complicated
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> xactly
[19:50] * NCommander has no idea, so will just abstain so I don't make bad choice :)
[19:50] <@juggs> can always change over to accrual at a later date
[19:50] <+Bytram> we don't have any depreciation expense or property that appreciates or any of that stuff; I'd think cash should be good.
[19:50] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i belive you are authorized to make those kinds of decisions as Treasurer, but as always, feel free to ask for board input :)
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> not sure if we needa vote but looks like we are on the same page
[19:51] <@mrcoolbp> cool matt_, thanks
[19:51] <@NCommander> Do we just want to formalize it incase the issue comes up again?
[19:51] <@NCommander> So we can actually remember what we all agreed to do?
[19:51] <@mrcoolbp> I will remember but sure = 0
[19:51] <@NCommander> Oh
[19:52] <@NCommander> Crud, I just remembered the big action item I had to bring up this meeting
[19:52] * NCommander just found his notes for the next board meeting
[19:52] <@NCommander> Nexuses
[19:52] <@matt_> All those in favor of using a cash accounting basis for the Corporation's books:
[19:52] <@matt_> Aye!
[19:52] <@paulej72> nexii
[19:52] <@NCommander> Aye
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> Aye
[19:52] <@matt_> So resolved.
[19:52] <+Bytram> matt_++
[19:52] <Bender> karma - matt_: 11
[19:53] <@NCommander> So, here's a big one: we're about to roll out nexuses in our next big update, and will get into the point that users can host their own version of SN if they want.
[19:53] <@NCommander> That's not ready to go for at least another release since the admin code has to be reworked
[19:53] <@paulej72> ^^^
[19:53] <@NCommander> But I want to make sure we hit the ground running when the code lands
[19:53] <+takyon> you going to add a new user permission level for nexii™?
[19:53] <@NCommander> takyon, I was going to use the (mostly disused) ACL code in rehash
[19:54] <@paulej72> I think it would be a good idea to add a perms levle, but ACLs might work
[19:54] <@NCommander> They'll be able to access the admin interface filtered on a nexus level (thats already implemented), and post stories to nexuses the user can manage
[19:54] <@NCommander> paulej72, seclevels are not exact enough, a user can be a nexus admin on multiple nexuses
[19:54] <@NCommander> So
[19:55] <@NCommander> Let me summarize how this works large scale for folks who aren't in-depth in the code
[19:55] <@paulej72> Should we charge for community nexus?
[19:55] <@NCommander> That was basically where I was going
[19:55] <@NCommander> Rehash (the code base) supports nexuses which can be thought as a individual site within a site
[19:55] <@NCommander> As things exist right now, we have one nexus, creatively named "The Main Page"
[19:56] <@juggs> :)
[19:56] <@NCommander> Nexuses can overlap each other. So you can make a "Meta" Nexus, which is part of the main page, and thus articles in it show up there as well as soylentnews.org/meta
[19:56] <@NCommander> Users can filter out various nexuses in their control panel
[19:56] <@paulej72> Our nexii would live as sub nexii from the main page
[19:56] <+takyon> so mario nexus would also post to video games nexus
[19:56] <@NCommander> Its also possible to do what I call multisite
[19:57] <@NCommander> Rehash uses very unfortunate termology for this
[19:57] <@juggs> Someone is going to mention turtles soon I just know it!
[19:57] <+Bytram> NCommander: will there be unique storyids across all the nexuses?
[19:57] <@NCommander> Bytram, yes, the storyid ties something to a nexus, so it can be cross-posted
[19:57] <@NCommander> er, no, no unique id
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> = /
[19:57] <+CoolHand> I see benefits of hopefully drawing some people with it, but is there any concern of dilution of the minimal submissions we currently get?
[19:57] <@NCommander> CoolHand, this won't directly affect the main page.
[19:57] <@NCommander> Bare with me
[19:57] <+Bytram> NCommander: try again, is the stoyid a unique id unto istelf, or must it be joined with something else to construct a unique ID?
[19:58] <@NCommander> Nexuses are a lot like subreddits.
[19:58] * Bytram would like to know that story 12345 is always the same story
[19:58] <@paulej72> yes Bytram
[19:58] <+takyon> we could give editors the ability to easily post a high-quality nexus post to the mainpage... comments intact?
[19:58] <@NCommander> Bytram, every story has a stoid, and its unique to THAT story. The stoid is attached to nexuses via a lookup table
[19:58] <@NCommander> takyon, bingo.
[19:58] <@NCommander> Say we have a "dwarffortress" nexus
[19:58] <@NCommander> And DF makes a major release and its huge
[19:59] <@NCommander> That article can be reposted to the main page by simply having an editor add "The Main Page" nexus to it, and blamo
[19:59] <+audioguy> Categories.
[19:59] <+takyon> you'd need multiple story dates attached to the same story
[20:00] <@juggs> In any other parlance audioguy :)
[20:00] <@paulej72> I was thinking based on NCommander's thoughts is that we ould hava Community nexus that would be like the Main Page, where all communitiy Nexii would land atomagically, Our eds could add the main page to any of these stories to post to main
[20:00] <@NCommander> paulej72, not a bad idea, but it could get too cluttered with too much content
[20:00] <@NCommander> We're still at least another dev cycle from it. Right now, I want to get rehash out the door before rewriting the admin code which is truly horrofic
[20:00] <@paulej72> NCommander: depends on the amount of stuff being posted
[20:01] <@NCommander> But here's the other thing you can do with nexii
[20:01] <@NCommander> YOu can attach a domain to it
[20:01] <@NCommander> For example, let's say we internationalize the codebase at some point, and a group of people want to start soylentnews in polish
[20:01] <@NCommander> We could register soylentnews.pl
[20:01] <@paulej72> but a second domain means a sperate node balancer and cert
[20:01] <@NCommander> Then add the necessary skins table entry, so if you pull the site via soylentnews.pl, you get that nexus.
[20:01] <@NCommander> paulej72, this won't be a free service
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> My only comment is I’m weary of fragmenting our community, but this could, in the end, drive more people here
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> not sure
[20:02] <@paulej72> sure that is where a bunch of costs would come from
[20:02] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, well, ideally, soylentnews.org won't change drastically
[20:02] <mythterj> @NCcommander I admire your grandiosity.  ;-)
[20:02] <@juggs> wary rather than weary?
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> aye
[20:02] <+takyon> you'd need a story publish date for each nexus. so if its published on Wednesday on dwarffortress, you see it on Thursday, it can be put on the Main page on a new time on Friday..
[20:02] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, but let me give you a real life example
[20:02] <@NCommander> I'm a big fan of Dwarf Fortress
[20:03] <+Bytram> chicken/egg do we need greater diversity to encourage more participation, or less diversity to build community?
[20:03] <@NCommander> The two largest communities for DF are Bay12 and reddit. Guess which subreddit I'm active in
[20:03] <@mrcoolbp> right
[20:03] <@paulej72> takyon: that would be a big project to make happen
[20:03] <@NCommander> If we had a soylentnews.org/dwarffortress, I could post articles there without gumming up the page. The mainpage becomes a best of everything.
[20:03] <@NCommander> paulej72, we could move publication date to the nexus lookup table. Theorically, its straightforward. Making a UI that doesn't make editor heads explode is tricker
[20:04] <+Bytram> we can barely keep the story queue filled and story comment level atm, I'm concerned what would happen if we had a more 'dispersed' community
[20:04] <@mrcoolbp> ^
[20:04] <@NCommander> I don't see how the community would disperse
[20:04] <@paulej72> except I would think a df nuxus would be under the community nexii
[20:04] <+takyon> paulej72: it's necessary. if you don't add multiple date fields, the story will be put back in time and nobody will see it on the main page
[20:04] <+Bytram> s/disperse/be spread thin/
[20:04] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: Bytram is actually right, unless you spend time in #editorial and actually trying to keep the queue full, this is not obvious
[20:04] <+cmn32480> a side thought - we will need a larger number of editors that are active
[20:04] <@mrcoolbp> ^
[20:05] <@NCommander> Hold on
[20:05] <@NCommander> I think you're misunderstanding how this is supposed to work
[20:05] <@juggs> The nexus owner edits their own nexus right?
[20:05] <@NCommander> juggs, yeah
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: not really, but we are brining up an issue with our current situation
[20:05] <@NCommander> We're getting issues intermingaled
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> a little
[20:05] <@paulej72> community nexii are run by memebers of the community that want a specific nexus that is not covered by a SN nexus
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> yes 6
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> oops
[20:06] <@NCommander> paulej72 gets it in 1. I'm not getting how that will spread people thin.
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> the point is we are already thin
[20:06] <+takyon> about being the master of a nexus:
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> on editors and submissions
[20:06] <@paulej72> so if a group of people want a bacon nuxus they need to man it
[20:06] <+takyon> it occurs to me that we'll have the same problem ICANN has with gTLDs... where multiple people want control of the same nexus
[20:06] <@juggs> So I could have OMGPwnies nexus - SN editors are not responsible for keeping it fuelled with new stories - I am responsible for that
[20:06] <+cmn32480> if the stories that get posted to an individual nexus are somewhat poorly written, or have a good story, but need significant editing for the main page, does that chagne what was posted in the orgininating nexus?
[20:07] <@NCommander> takyon, yeah, nexii open a fairly large of can of worms which is why I want the discuss well in advance of golive
[20:07] <@paulej72> yes juggs
[20:07] <@NCommander> cmn32480, yes
[20:07] <@NCommander> We could make a submit to mainpage copies instead of links, I'm not sure if thats a good idea.
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> we just train them and support the software I guess
[20:07] <+cmn32480> that may cause issues with the maintainers of a given nexus
[20:08] <@NCommander> I think once rehash goes live, we need to have a large discussion with the community on this
[20:08] <+takyon> making a new copy without doing that story date juggling I mentioned would be easier to do with the current system, except you lose out on any comments that were made on the original scope... probably
[20:08] <@paulej72> cmn32480: if it needs editing, we could copy it to a new article and link back to the nexus
[20:08] <+cmn32480> NCommander - a submit to main page that generates a copy would work better, I think
[20:08] <+Bytram> cmn32480: agreed. we already have some 'fun' with people who disagreed with some of our editing efforts
[20:08] <@NCommander> I'm going to take an action item to write a novel on the topic, and pass it around.
[20:08] * NCommander notes this likely will be much longer than my usual articles
[20:08] <+Bytram> what a novel idea...
[20:08] * Bytram cringes
[20:09] <+CoolHand> LONGER?
[20:09] <@NCommander> I'm pretty sure I'm mrcoolbp's worst enemy when it comes to editor training
[20:09] * cmn32480 is gonna take a sick day whaen that comes out so he doesn't have to edit it.
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> = )
[20:09] <@juggs> Hmm - does this loop back to copyright in some way? If people are submitting stuff to their own nexus, can we come along and purloin that onto SN Main Page?
[20:09] <@NCommander> Cause everytime I post something, #editoral has a collective heart attack, or I break dev
[20:09] <@paulej72> cmn32480: sick week
[20:09] <+cmn32480> <cough> <cough>
[20:09] <@NCommander> juggs, yes, that too
[20:09] <@NCommander> I dunno, I liked paulej72's solution to the code equivelent of my posts
[20:10] <@NCommander> "Here's the Apache2 port"
[20:10] <@NCommander> "COMMIT!"
[20:10] * Bytram relaxes a bit when he remembers reviewing the incorporation docs, some of which contained sentences with more than 500 words, each.
[20:10] <@paulej72> fix it in post
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> “we’ll do it live!”
[20:10] * takyon begins planning a list of what nexii I'm going to seize control of
[20:10] <@NCommander> My personal thought was this:
[20:11] <@NCommander> For things that are of general interest, we give nexii on a first come, first serve basis (perhaps for free if the nexus owner can show a demand for it), and then editors can get involved in case of nexus admin issues, and have this clearly laid out
[20:12] <@NCommander> For individual things, like a rehash hosted blog, put a price tag on it, and we ignore it completely aside from legal stuff.
[20:12] * NCommander has seen a lot of stupid reddit drama because reddit admins are completely hands off
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> gotta support it if we are charging for it though
[20:12] <@NCommander> I don't want to see sn.org/shitsnsays
[20:12] <+takyon> who would get a nexus for a blog if they can just use their journal
[20:12] <@NCommander> takyon, journals are very limited compared to what you can do with the site. You can get content upload, schedule stuff, etc.
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> Overall, It’s a cool idea, I’m curious to hear the community’s thoughts
[20:13] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, from a technical perspective, we support the whole thing already.
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> tru
[20:13] <@paulej72> we sill need to figure out what SN nexii we need. Meta and Breaking News are on dev, but breaking News could just be a topic
[20:13] <@NCommander> We'll just have sn.org/meta/technicalsupport
[20:13] <@juggs> NCommander, there's a fine line to walk there - either SN are moderating nexii or they are not. There's a legal line there that determines responsibility for hosted content. IANAL.
[20:13] <+CoolHand> I think there should be some T.O.S./rules on it, so they can't have racist stuff, etc. that could reflect badly on the main SN
[20:14] <@NCommander> juggs, DCMA actually makes that stupidly clear. As long as we're not actively posting it ourselves but just approving/rejecting the overarching topic, we're fine.
[20:14] <@NCommander> DMCA
[20:14] <@NCommander> CoolHand, agreed
[20:14] <@juggs> DMCA only applies in the US :P
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> SN is “in the US”
[20:14] <+cmn32480> the list of verboten topics has to be clearly defined
[20:15] <@NCommander> juggs, we're a corporation based on the united states. If we get sued, it will be in a court of law here. Someone may file suit in another country, but it would likely be dismissed as we don't have a legal presense there
[20:15] <+CoolHand> don't want it turning into a new 4chan /b/..
[20:15] <+takyon> nexus: the dynamite that will blast soylentnews into a million pieces
[20:15] <@NCommander> Agreed
[20:15] <@juggs> OK
[20:15] <@NCommander> This is going to be a fine line to walk
[20:15] <@NCommander> But we've done this before. Subscriptions, incorporation, etc. Stuff that tends to scare a community
[20:15] <+Bytram> what is the perceived benefit for SN?
[20:16] <@NCommander> Bytram, increased revenue (from nexii themselves, plus additional subscriptions), increased usage
[20:16] <+takyon> alternate route for submissions, greater users
[20:16] <@NCommander> And furthering our mission statements
[20:16] <@juggs> Hmm - could we consider a revenue share with nexii owners on the subs they bring in?
[20:16] <+Bytram> kthnx.
[20:16] <@NCommander> I think the community will define a lot of the limitations on this, on how far we're willing to go and not. This only flie with community support.
[20:17] <@NCommander> juggs, longer term, def. possible, but let's not put the cart before the horse.
[20:17] <@paulej72> NCommander: right now I have the subscribe fucnction all go back to the main page. there is no per nexus subscribe suppoort
[20:17] <@juggs> I haven't learnt to walk yet - let alone carts and horses :D
[20:17] <@mrcoolbp> guys, matt_ and I have to transfer some domains, and I want to work up some docs to send to staff, should we move to adjourn? You guys can hang around and chat
[20:17] <@NCommander> paulej72, we have many details to hash out about that. I like the idea of revenue sharing
[20:17] <@NCommander> I think we have action items, and a course of action, I think we can call the nexii discussion tabled
[20:17] * NCommander calls to adjorn.
[20:17] <@juggs> mrcoolbp, I think we've gone way beyond AOB at this point
[20:18] <@matt_> All those in favor of adjourning:
[20:18] <@NCommander> aye
[20:18] <@mrcoolbp> Aye!
[20:18] <@matt_> Aye!
[20:18] <@matt_> This meeting of the SoylentNews PBC Board of Directors stands adjourned!