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Historic talk:FeatureList

2014-02-10T21:35:54Z

Sir Garlon: Comment on UTF-8; added section headings

(Pardon my editing. If anyone is more familiar with wiki editing than I, maybe they would care to format this more appropriately. However, I would not appreciate any editing of my comments other than for format.)

== MODDING ==

:First: I recommend against allowing mods in any discussion in which you have taken part. Preventing mods only to "your comment chain" would be far too complicated to implement and there are too many potential holes to exploit if someone wants to cheat.

:: Technobabble removed --- I don't see why it's really a desirable feature. You're opening the door to people gaming the system by modding other comments in the topic that they don't like, in order to support the comments in that topic that they did make. If you mod all your enemies down, and your own and friends' comments up, you distort the whole picture. My opinion is no. It's just a bad idea to allow mods in the same forum you comment in. (Please understand that my intention here is to be constructive. I used to think this should be allowed on the original site too, but after giving it more thought I changed my mind.)

::: I understand where you're coming from; what I and others have experienced is that we don't bank mod points until such time they want to use them since they expire. Most of the time when I have mod points, I find myself annoyed that I can't contribute to a conversation that I'm now paying close attention to. Are you specifically concerned about an issue-poster who will hunt through articles once they have mod points to game the conversation?

:Second: I recommend against giving users the ability to mod ACs up. Why bother? They're ACs. Allow downmodding but not upmodding. That gives them incentive to create an account. (I realize this would penalize the occasional brilliant comment from an AC... still, I say: let them create an account.)

:: ACs do sometimes post very good content. Sometimes individuals mentioned in an article feel the need to post with some plausible deniability. I'd advise against this. Perhaps a feature might be to simply hide AC posts as a display option (but not the default).

::: "Sometimes individuals mentioned in an article feel the need to post with some plausible deniability." Regardless of the occasional "good" purpose this can be used for, this is called '''sock-puppet''' activity and is pretty universally despised in online forums. Encouraging this kind of behavior will not do your site any favors.

:::: I disagree. I feel that being able to contribute or add an additional detail anonymously (plausible deniability) is vital, especially because of the sensitive nature of some articles with respect to where people work. Remember that a moderator still has to moderate the anonymous post up, and moderators are aware that an anon reply to an authenticated post might be a sock-puppet if it looks strange or like someone is deliberately trying to sound like a second voice.

:::: Slashdot was not a site optimized for Facebook arguments about politics or DND. Even if you can "win" an argument with sock-puppetry; if you won an argument on Slashdot you have already lost. It's a site optimized for technical discussions and each post should be able to stand on its own merits and there are no winners or losers, just informative or bullshit; the only amplification (speaking from authority) should come from registered posts and reputation. That's why Slashdot allows some registered or high-karma accounts to post with more points by default. If there was some real weird conversation steering by a bad actor with sock puppetry combined with mod activity you're already talking about needing multiple accounts in good standing, and that takes resources. If it can be detected by the clustering analysis and investigated, then we could combat it. If it can't, then it's a sophisticated attack by someone with a lot of patience or money, and in which case I don't think we can prevent that.

:::: I think that a targeted attack that abuses the ability to post anonymously could just as easily be done without anonymous posting (and yet another account), so I think the value of being able to post something very valuable without fear of repercussion outweighs the ease with which someone might try to make their own argument seem popular. I'd rather fish the depths for a gem and take that "go ahead and post the master HDCP matrix, free speech is paramount" approach that Slashdot had than tell you to use a pastebin.

:Third: I do not think fractional mod points is a good idea. It adds unnecessary complication, decimal numbers use up more space in the database and add performance penalties, etc. If you want to make some mods worth more than others, make them worth more than one point. E.g., 2 points and 1 point rather than 1 point and 0.5 points.

:: You wouldn't store decimals, just the traditional modpoints times 2. The fractions are a UI detail and their conversion (and truncation) are a function of the code that prepares fetched data to be templated and rendered to HTML. The reason for adding this is so that the default rendering option still shows a -1 to 5 scale as before, but allows for Funny and Flamebait to be de-emphasized. It's really a matter of empowering the default, non-logged in view, which we can't ignore.

::: I know how it works. You are still adding needless complication. Regardless of whether it's "just display" or not, you are adding floating-point arithmetic that simply isn't necessary.

:::: We could change the range. But I like the idea that the score is in a 0-5 "stars" range. Familiarity and all. I'd like it not to go into double digits (0-9) at the worst. And you're making a bigger deal out of it than it is considering PHP and Perl have no issue with floating point vs. integer scalars (and the database wouldn't store it). This isn't something to get worked up about. What I'd like to hear is a solid argument against finer weighting options.

::: "but allows for Funny and Flamebait to be de-emphasized" Why would you want to de-emphasize them? I think Funny is well-deserving of a full point, and Flamebait, while sometimes misused, is still a worthy mod.

:::: Slashdot already allows for user-defined weights for rating types. I have seen some user journals earlier on from slashdot devs where they talked statistics on how top-level comments end up getting overmodded (they receive a disproportionate number of different ratings to value the unauthenticated user score). Seeing how some comments quickly shoot up in score, I think this is still happening. I feel this would allow for a bit more fine-grained control for users who don't value Funny as much as you might. (I'm one of them, I like Funny, but I think it gets steam-roll mod applied sometimes, like the Reddit effect you mentioned earlier)

:Fourth: I would give a lot of strong thought to some kind of means to limit sock-puppet accounts and especially sock-puppet mods. I doubt there is any perfect way to do it, but having many times been victim of sock-puppet mods, I think it should be harder than in the original version. It should also be made clear to users that sock-puppets are considered the lowest of the low by the community. (They already are, but it should be made explicitly clear.)

:: Perhaps a new requirement is a feature in the backend that uses cookies and/or IP/browser fingerprinting to cluster accounts, and then further watch for correlated activity among them to identify potential sockpuppet accounts. A manual adjudication process would be necessary. While multiple accounts would not be specifically against the ToS, the site would reserve the right to ban accounts believed to be acting in bad faith (trolling, spam, sockpuppetry).

::: I agree. I think a form in the user area could be used to register a "complaint" about suspected sock-puppet mods. This could run an automatic routine to find correlations to cookies or IPs (cookies is probably more reliable). If that is above a certain threshold, it could be forwarded to moderators for a review. Just an idea, but that would give users a way to complain, without incessantly bothering moderators, yet allow moderators to act if anything is real.

:Fifth: I recommend adding an "I disagree" mod, which would be worth '''+1''' point. :)

:: Only if you change it to be "Devil's Advocate" and conversely a "Groupthink" downmod at '''-1'''. These are more descriptive rather than opinion-based tags (even though they really all are) which are easier to metamod and force you to think about your perception of the community attitude, not just your own.

::: It was just a joke. I like the groupthink idea, though (a "Kool-Aid" mod). I think it might be abused though.

:::: Some others have already expanded on this list apparently :)

:Sixth: ''"What about not-posting in the thread where you moderated? Good or bad rule? Maybe if you really must post, allow cryptocoin paying for post?"'' '''HELL NO.''' People should not have more say just because they have more money. This is a '''very bad''' idea.

:: Agreed. This is a dangerous precedence. Also, I don't think it's a good idea to incentive-ize anything beyond low UIDs, more browsing options (site scraping, CPU-taxing searches), maybe auctions for popular channel names to be owner/editor on.

== KARMA (CHOPS) ==

:I really don't think mod points or karma should depend on user's customized point systems. Leaving it open to customized scoring could make your karma system vulnerable to cabals of users, unintended consequences, or a form of "elitism" (Good Old Boy Syndrome). It's been known to happen. There should be a clearly articulable standard that cannot be modified by users. Anything else is subject to chaos. If you don't give users a clearly defined standard, they won't know how to behave.

:: Note about the above: if what was meant was that it '''shows''' differently to users based on their custom scorings, fine. But the internal base scoring should not be modifiable by users.
:: '''Eeep edit conflict''' ... YES that's what I meant and I agree

:A Karma (or Chops) system needs to go above what the original system uses (only a few levels, with "Excellent" being the top). The current system allows people to receive massive numbers of positive mod points, but still remain at "Excellent" karma, which can be lost in a single day; they can find their karma at 0 if they are ganged up on by others and receive only a few downmods in a single conversation. Yes, it does happen. Karma should be allowed to accumulate (negative OR positive) beyond just a few points on either side of zero. It need not go on forever, but people should be allowed to develop some kind of persistence of positive or negative karma. That way somebody with a few years of good karma won't find themselves below 0 due to a single flamewar. And vice versa.

:: This already happens from what I understand. Karma isn't totally capped right now on slashdot; there's a functional limit for display purposes and mod perks. I think there's a weighting system where karma for everything older than a few months or so "sum from back then", capped at the functional limit, and then all the subsequent karma-affecting activity since then allows it to go above or below that number, and it's again capped at the limit for checks. And then they summarize the oldest month on some periodic basis into the new "sum from back then", but they again are capping it when stored so all the extra upmods in the past can't outweigh current downmods now.

::: I don't think they really do this. I say that because I have had many years of good /. karma, with consistently many more upmods than down, only to see it literally disappear in a single day, over a single discussion in which I took a "politically incorrect" position (about 5 downmods). I had to re-build it from scratch. I thought that was really pretty terrible: losing years of reputation in a single discussion. That should not be allowed, but was.

:::: They do do this. But it relies on an external script to do some stuff (it could be more nuanced on the slashdot in production vs. what's in the CVS). And I've done this too (got downmodded a lot), but have not experienced what you experienced. Or perhaps I posted enough other stuff that got upmodded subsequently that it didn't matter the next time I checked.

:: I'd like to continue using such a system so that you're given the ability to carry Chops above the "Excellent" threshold value, but summarization means that you can't "bank" good behavior limitlessly and it also cuts down on expensive database queries for long-lived accounts.

::: I don't think limitless would be a good idea either. But I also don't think big queries should be necessary. Just accumulate points in a field of the main user record. Allow the accumulation of a certain amount of points above "Excellent", or below "Terrible" (or whatever the low limit is... I've never been there). I don't see the utility of maintaining complex running averages, when a simple accumulator achieves most of the same goals, as long as you let it go somewhat above the top visual rating and below the bottom visual rating. (And as I mentioned before, I don't think the original site actually does averages, either.)

:::: What I'm hearing is that the summary-ization threshold is too low. Are you okay with it turning everything beyond "4 weeks ago" into a past total and starting point for karma (capped at 150% the display?). Let's say the display limit is "10" for excellent. That means you could have 15 upmods banked from a month ago, plus any recent upmods, and then need that many downmods to happen to you all at once to put you at zero.

:Care should be taken to avoid multiplication of karma points, either positive or negative. I.e., you should not receive more positive points for having positive points.

:: I can't think of a situation where this occurs as exists or proposed (except with sockpuppetry... )

::: I agree. I just thought it was worth mention because I had at first misunderstood your description of how reputation is scored. The "Reddit effect" is somewhat minimimized on Slashdot because comments don't move to the top based on their score. But on Reddit (if they still do it the same way) it is a serious positive feedback effect, in which mediocre comments can get shoved to the top if they get a few upmods early, while more insightful comments get buried in the noise. That's not directly related to karma (chops), but the effect should be avoided in any scoring system.

:::: Agreed.

== UTF-8 ==
Just to play devil's advocate here, I thought Unicode support (and lack thereof) was one of the things people commonly bitched about on Slashdot. So if it is possible to be smart about Unicode from the beginning, that could help us take off. I say this as someone without the ''relevant'' technical knowledge of the back-end so I don't know why UTF-8 is especially important to you guys. --[[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]] 16:34 EST 2014-02-10

ForProfit

2014-02-07T14:16:46Z

Sir Garlon: Moved my comment to the comments section. *Facepalm*

Here's a copy of my vision for the project, was sent around in one of the mailing list posts. Note that it puts "attract and keep readers" first, before "make money". The intent is to avoid trading off user satisfaction for money - the users come first.

* The purpose of the site will be to attract and keep readers.
* The site is intended to make money
* The site will hire people, and be a good employer
* I intend to listen to community feedback and do whatever makes the site better
* There will be monetization; however, this is secondary to the primary goal, which is to attract and keep readers.
* Users will be monetized (ie we won't sell our user's contact info)
* We won't poach from Slashdot

(Monetization meaning largely what Slashdot does now: advertizing, merchandise, and job postings.)

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

* I'd be careful with assuming a 10% return. While long term history shows that to be the case, in the previous 10 years the S&P 500 has yielded under 8%. Additionally, if you are planning to deduct money out of the fund every year, one bad year can have catastrophic effects on the overall viability of the fund since you would be forced to liquidate assets at non-optimal prices. I would urge a more conservative measure. I would be happy look into these options with you as well since this is one of my areas of expertise. -Nightbrood

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

* I am curious why you are proposing this model rather than just hiring people, or profit-sharing. I see practical problems with its implementation: how can you be sure the site will ever make N times $1 million? What about people who work hard for six or twelve months and burn out before you hit the magic number -- they get nothing? What about someone who joins the team late? And so on. I respect the novelty of your idea but if I were one of three developers and you only(!) made $2 million the first year, I would feel kind of shafted working all year for nothing when there are $2 million sitting in the bank. Doubly so, if something bad happened and the site shut down without ever having paid anyone. [[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]]

ForProfit

2014-02-07T14:13:24Z

Sir Garlon: Moved and re-phrased fairness comment

Here's a copy of my vision for the project, was sent around in one of the mailing list posts. Note that it puts "attract and keep readers" first, before "make money". The intent is to avoid trading off user satisfaction for money - the users come first.

* The purpose of the site will be to attract and keep readers.
* The site is intended to make money
* The site will hire people, and be a good employer
* I intend to listen to community feedback and do whatever makes the site better
* There will be monetization; however, this is secondary to the primary goal, which is to attract and keep readers.
* Users will be monetized (ie we won't sell our user's contact info)
* We won't poach from Slashdot

(Monetization meaning largely what Slashdot does now: advertizing, merchandise, and job postings.)

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

* I'd be careful with assuming a 10% return. While long term history shows that to be the case, in the previous 10 years the S&P 500 has yielded under 8%. Additionally, if you are planning to deduct money out of the fund every year, one bad year can have catastrophic effects on the overall viability of the fund since you would be forced to liquidate assets at non-optimal prices. I would urge a more conservative measure. I would be happy look into these options with you as well since this is one of my areas of expertise. -Nightbrood

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

* I am curious why you are proposing this model rather than just hiring people, or profit-sharing. I see practical problems with its implementation: how can you be sure the site will ever make N times $1 million? What about people who work hard for six or twelve months and burn out before you hit the magic number -- they get nothing? What about someone who joins the team late? And so on. I respect the novelty of your idea but if I were one of three developers and you only(!) made $2 million the first year, I would feel kind of shafted working all year for nothing when there are $2 million sitting in the bank. Doubly so, if something bad happened and the site shut down without ever having paid anyone. [[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]]

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

ForProfit

2014-02-07T14:08:30Z

Sir Garlon: /* Overall description: */ Comment on fairness of annuity-payout model

Here's a copy of my vision for the project, was sent around in one of the mailing list posts. Note that it puts "attract and keep readers" first, before "make money". The intent is to avoid trading off user satisfaction for money - the users come first.

* The purpose of the site will be to attract and keep readers.
* The site is intended to make money
* The site will hire people, and be a good employer
* I intend to listen to community feedback and do whatever makes the site better
* There will be monetization; however, this is secondary to the primary goal, which is to attract and keep readers.
* Users will be monetized (ie we won't sell our user's contact info)
* We won't poach from Slashdot

(Monetization meaning largely what Slashdot does now: advertizing, merchandise, and job postings.)

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

* I'd be careful with assuming a 10% return. While long term history shows that to be the case, in the previous 10 years the S&P 500 has yielded under 8%. Additionally, if you are planning to deduct money out of the fund every year, one bad year can have catastrophic effects on the overall viability of the fund since you would be forced to liquidate assets at non-optimal prices. I would urge a more conservative measure. I would be happy look into these options with you as well since this is one of my areas of expertise. -Nightbrood

* I am curious why you are proposing this model rather than just hiring people, or profit-sharing. I see practical problems with its implementation: how do you decide who gets the first million, and after someone gets his million bucks, what incentive does he/she have to remain productive? I respect the novelty of your idea but if I were the third guy in line for an annuity and you only(!) made $2 million the first year, I would feel kind of shafted working all year for nothing when the guy next to me gets a payout for life. [[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]]

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

NewName

2014-02-07T13:37:51Z

Sir Garlon: /* Memes */ Availability of non-trademark names

''We need a new name''

''I agree with everyone who has suggested a name different from "AltSlashdot".''

''So far, none of the suggested alternatives seem to be popular (I considered "ForkSlashdot" and discarded it :-).''

''I think the best course is to get things up and running and then hold a name contest. A community effort should make this task easy.''

''We don't have to do this immediately. "AltSlashdot" is significantly different from "Slashdot", and we won't be poaching any of their stories or (as much as practical) style.''

''If things go very well, the new site might be up and running by Monday (Feb 10). Giving some time to settle in, we could have the contest in two weeks or so. If everything goes well...''

==Name change discussion==

I propose "NoBeta" as a name, ensuring that this new site never forgets its roots. It's a name with an [ongoing] story behind it, has all sorts of 31337 connotations, etc etc. It could make for a good story some day.

-SGT CAPSLOCK

killbeta.org?
diebetadie.org?

unitron

* Really, I'm sold on AltSlashdot, but I just want to make sure that there will be enough Natalie Portman.

''If we turn a profit by the end of the year, I'll put a Natalie Portman link on the front page.''

* Can we somehow get Cowboyneal back? Can we plan some evil way to get him fired from his current job and desperate enough to come back reestablish the Slashdot community as its tribal leader?

* I think we should veer away from establishing an identity based on Dice, the Beta or our strong negative feelings about those. This is about re-establishing the community and giving us a new home, one that belongs to the community and isn't beholden to some evil corporate overlords. Alluding to slashdot is okay -- I agree with SGT CAPSLOCK that we shouldn't forget our roots. --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

== New Name ==

SlashUsr as in /usr

SlashHome as in /home

SlashVarLog as in /var/log

Name it "DotDotSlash" as in cd ../

I vote for hashbash as in #!(/bin/zsh)

On similar lines to the above, hashdot, abbreviated '''#.'''

BinBash as in /bin/bash

SlashNot?
How about HashNot? As in #!. Nevermind, I saw crunchbang linux.

bangslashdot.com .net .org (!/.) Reference from /. article: Re:Boycott (Score:2)
by somenickname (1270442) on Wednesday February 05, 2014 @08:47PM (#46169131)
Just registered bangslashdot.com/net/org (!/.) in case Slashdot needs to be forked to a new site. Will happily sell the domain to a more capable web-type for the exact price I paid (with the stipulation that I get a low UID).

* Consider a '''name change'''. If you're serious about this, then the name "AltSlashdot" will run you into legal trouble down the road, since Slashdot/Dice/etc. will sue for Trademark infringement (and will have a solid case). Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~tpaudio tpaudio] suggested [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46170795 "Plusdot"]. Another idea (mine) is to call it "divergence" or "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence divergence operator]"... the logo would be the mathematical form of divergence, i.e. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol nabla] symbol followed by a dot (which looks like an augmented "slash dot"). --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].
** I agree with JustinOpinion, any name with "slash" or "dot" in it will put us in the crosshairs of Dice's lawyers, and we do not want that. "Divergence" is nice. --[[User:Sir Garlon]] 16:36, 2014-02-06 (EST)
** Perhaps altslash.org? Sounds far enough from slashdot to avoid problems, but close enough to clue in any refugees. [[User:Max Hyre|Max Hyre]] ([[User talk:Max Hyre|talk]]) 08:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)
** I'm gonna vote for '''divergence''', I think the name along speaks to the community as to why we want something different/better than the aim of SlashFail Beta. (keick)
** Vote for '''divergence''' also for the same reasons as mentioned above (Qwade)
** I also vote for '''divergence''' anything that comes out of this will probably be eyed by Dice legal. (Nightbrood)

* I agree that AltSlashdot is hard to pronounce, but wasn't that the idea behind h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-o-r-g (that is should be hard to pronounce)? [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:41, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* The name "AltSlashdot" does not "mouth" well. May I suggest "Slashfork"? --[[User:Koen|Koen]] ([[User talk:Koen|talk]]) 08:52, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* How about betterthanbeta.org or similar? After all, we all know what created this. Another option would be some meme-based thing, like frostyhotgrits.org. Actually, frostyhotgrits.org would be both unique, and make most Slashdotters feel right at home. Greets, Iskender (1040286) [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 09:39, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* backslashdot.org. Backslash. Back to basics. Back to the old school. Hell yea.
**Alternatively - why not a more elegant backslash.org ? --kell

* can we get one of those new top-level domains, like .bank, except instead get .dot? Then name it SlashSlash.dot ;-)

* I second the person who suggested dot-dot-slash (../). Going up a directory is like going "back", which is the purpose of the new site - going back to how things used to be.
** This does seem to be the clear winner. Though backslash.com (which appears to be a parked domain) would work well too, since it's not *immediately* obvious legally that we stole the name (back slash dot com) from slashdot. Too bad dashdot.com and slashdotdash.com are both real in-use sites. slashdotdashdot.com appears to be parked, though.
**I second backslash.com if the domain can be obtained. ../ would be the subtler option, and I'm in favor of it.

* May I suggest HashBang (#!), I think it has a slightly better ring to it than hashbash
** I think anything with "#!" is probably going to be too close to Crunchbang Linux. They use that exact shorthand symbol. - Cactus

* Some fantastic ideas: SlashStar (/*), SlashSlash (//), ShebangShebang (#!#!), HotGrits, SovietSlashdot, DotSlash (./), DotSlashDot (./.), GNU/Slashdot (GNU//.), GNS (GNS = "GNP's Not Slashdot", and GNP = "Grits on Natalie Portman"), CowboyNeal.net, RoblimosOrphans.org, BangBangBang (!!!), CarrotSlashSlashSlashDot (^\/\.), YoungPastyHonkies.net, NoDiceSlashdot, SlashReset (/Reset), Carrotdot (^.), SlashHash (/#), PurpleTaro, CowboyNealOption, DennisRitchieIsGod.com, Ctrl-H (^H), Ctrl-C (^C), HGNP (Hot Grits on Natalie Portman)
* *.onion

* altslashctrl -- sort of gets the point across

* nodice.org and no-dice.org are unfortunately not available. -- [[User:Stderr dk|Stderr dk]] ([[User talk:Stderr dk|talk]]) 12:00, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* dicetoss.org is available

How much would dice holdings sell the classic slashdot.org site for? They can keep SlashTV, SlashBI, etc.

* I think the name should be kept to two syllables or less. Some of my favorites: dotdot (..), notdot(!.), backslash (\). Although it may be better to define the site based on what it is (is there any vision here other than 'slashdot classic'?) rather than what it isn't (slashdot beta). If this gains traction, it will be on its own merits and not because it forked slashcode. Maybe something like hashtech (#tech)? Works for old school IRC nerds and twitter hashtags.
** Not that I'm a particular fan of social media, but I do like #tech.
** +1 for '''backslash'''. Sounds like backlash, refers to Slashdot, and still a keyboard character. Apparantly, the domain BACKSLASH DOT ORG is for sale: [http://backslash.org/] (Moderator - 189749)
** +1 for backslash here..

* How about BangDot or KillDot? It sounds similar, but it is different enough than nobody will be able to claim it leads to confusion.
* How about Tildedot? h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-dot-tidle-dot-dot-org? (keick)
** Or maybe !|.org? BangPipe :) (keick)

* Can we stick these in a table please? With a column that indicates their status (taken - in use / taken - parked / available)? It also makes sense to group them into classes like: anti-dice, recognisably-similar-to-slashdot, novel. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:07, 6 February 2014 (MST) (FatPhil)

* I vote for hashbang.com unfortunately it seems that someone is parked on it. (Githaron)

* I think it has to be of the same spirit as slashdot. Taco wanted it to be confusing for people to type into a browser after hearing it h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-org. I suggust something in that vein, tuned to the current mobile app store. I'd suggust something like the PlayAppStore. You'd sound like an idiot trying to explain it to someone else: go to playappstore

* Or we could go really go back to chips & dip, the previous name of slashdot,
it looks like the domain name has expired when i did a whois search. I liked the idea of using hashbang but like someone else pointed out it is used...

* I second both "chips and dip" and "dotdotslash" as clever alternatives. Divergence is second tier but I will also support it if no other alternatives gain traction.

* Is something like slashplusplus or something similar available? I like it because it is an increment of the past variable. Only downside is the slash in the name might not sit well with Dice legal. Trying to stay true to Taco's original naming convention is going to be difficult. (Nightbrood)

* My suggestions/picks would be '''hashslash''' (#/ -- not slashhash, btw); '''backslash''' (this is probably easier to defend if Dice tries to argue trademark); '''hotgrits''' (it's a short, catchy, very uniquely slashdot meme that also alludes to news, as in "hot off the presses"); '''frostpist''' (another strongly slashdot-flavored meme). --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

* I'll also throw this in: '''RTFC''' (read the fucking comments, because as several people have pointed out in the FuckBeta threads, slashdot has always been more about the community and the comments we post, and not really about the articles). --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

* Why do all the names have to reference slashdot in some way? Move on... think of something completely different and leave the past behind.

==Name Options==
Please add ideas to these tables. Where possible, note if the URL is available. Consider adding your username to the 'votes' column.

====References to Slashdot, Beta, Dice, etc.====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| AltSlashot
| Alt/.
| altslashdot.org (registered by us)
| ''Trademark issues!''
|-
| AltSlash
| Alt/
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| AtSlash
| @/
|
| ''.org appears open. "I read it at atslashdotorg"''
|-
| '''FBeta'''
|
| fbeta.org
|
|-
| '''ForkBeta'''
|
| forkbeta.org
|
|-
| ForkSlashdot
|
|
|
|-
| SlashFork
|
|
|
|-
| SlashNot
| /!
|
|
|-
| '''BackSlash'''
| \
|
| Slashdot actually has a subsection called 'backslash'.
|-
| KillDot
|
|
|
|-
| KillBeta
|
|
|
|-
| DieBetaDie
|
|
|
|-
| BetterThanBeta
|
|
|
|-
| NoDice
|
|
|
|-
| DiceToss
|
|
|
|-
| NoDiceAllowed
|
|
| Domain Available
|-
| ColonSlash
|
|
| Because it looks funny (suggested on reddit)
|-
|SlashDash
|/-
|
|
|-
|CandyCrushSlashdotSaga
|
|
|
|-
|NoCountryForOldDevs
|
|
|
|-
|NoBeta
|
|
|meow
|-
|RTFC
|
|
|because TFC are what /. is about -- who needs TFA, or even TFS? :)
|}

====Typographic/Computer Puns====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| '''''DotDotSlash'''''
| ../
|
| As in "cd ../" ... also implies going back or up a level
|-
| HashBash
| #!(/bin/bash)
|
|
|-
| HashBang
| #!
| URL taken (parked domain)
| Possible confusion with Crunchbang Linux?
|-
| HashDot
| #.
|
|
|-
| HashSlash
| #/
|
| about "slash"; or tagged "slash"
|-
| DotDot
| ..
|
|
|-
| NotDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BangDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BackDot
| \.
|
|
|-
| BangSlashDot
| !/.
| Available to us (registered by Slashdot user somenickname (184564)).
|
|-
| TildeDot
| ~.
|
|
|-
| BangPipe
| !|
|
|
|-
| SlashStar
| /*
|
| Used in C to comment code, in recognition that the focus is on comments
|-
| SlashSlash
| //
|
|
|-
| ShebangShebang
| #!#!
|
|
|-
| CaretSlashSlashSlashDot
| ^\/\.
|
|
|-
| CaretDot
| ^.
|
|
|-
| SlashHash
| /#
|
|
|-
| PlusDot
| +.
|
|
|-
| BinBash
| /bin/bash
|
|
|-
| SlashUsr
| /usr
|
|
|-
| SlashHome
| /home
|
|
|-
| SlashVarLog
| /var/log
|
|
|-
| divergence
|
|
| The name represents how we're going in a new direction. Also, the symbol could be the mathematical divergence operator: a 'nabla' followed by a dot, which looks like an 'augmented' version of a slash followed by a dot.
|-
| HashTech
| #tech
|
| Has dual IRC and hastag meanings.
|-
| AtNot
| @!
|
| Short
|-
| PlayAppStore
|
|
| "Slashdot" was meant to confuse neophytes reading it aloud; the modern equivalent would be calling a site something like "PlayAppStore".
|}

====Memes====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| CowboyNeal
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| Cyborg Bill
|
| .net, .org available
| ''Was this the right term?''
|-
| Natalie Portman
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| FrostPist
|
| .com, .net, .org available
|
|-
| FrostyHotGrits
|
| .com, .net, ,org available :-)
| [[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]]'s vote
|-
| HotGrits
|
| .org available
|
|-
|LaserSharks
|
|.net, .org available
|
|}

NewName

2014-02-07T13:36:03Z

Sir Garlon: /* Memes */

''We need a new name''

''I agree with everyone who has suggested a name different from "AltSlashdot".''

''So far, none of the suggested alternatives seem to be popular (I considered "ForkSlashdot" and discarded it :-).''

''I think the best course is to get things up and running and then hold a name contest. A community effort should make this task easy.''

''We don't have to do this immediately. "AltSlashdot" is significantly different from "Slashdot", and we won't be poaching any of their stories or (as much as practical) style.''

''If things go very well, the new site might be up and running by Monday (Feb 10). Giving some time to settle in, we could have the contest in two weeks or so. If everything goes well...''

==Name change discussion==

I propose "NoBeta" as a name, ensuring that this new site never forgets its roots. It's a name with an [ongoing] story behind it, has all sorts of 31337 connotations, etc etc. It could make for a good story some day.

-SGT CAPSLOCK

killbeta.org?
diebetadie.org?

unitron

* Really, I'm sold on AltSlashdot, but I just want to make sure that there will be enough Natalie Portman.

''If we turn a profit by the end of the year, I'll put a Natalie Portman link on the front page.''

* Can we somehow get Cowboyneal back? Can we plan some evil way to get him fired from his current job and desperate enough to come back reestablish the Slashdot community as its tribal leader?

* I think we should veer away from establishing an identity based on Dice, the Beta or our strong negative feelings about those. This is about re-establishing the community and giving us a new home, one that belongs to the community and isn't beholden to some evil corporate overlords. Alluding to slashdot is okay -- I agree with SGT CAPSLOCK that we shouldn't forget our roots. --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

== New Name ==

SlashUsr as in /usr

SlashHome as in /home

SlashVarLog as in /var/log

Name it "DotDotSlash" as in cd ../

I vote for hashbash as in #!(/bin/zsh)

On similar lines to the above, hashdot, abbreviated '''#.'''

BinBash as in /bin/bash

SlashNot?
How about HashNot? As in #!. Nevermind, I saw crunchbang linux.

bangslashdot.com .net .org (!/.) Reference from /. article: Re:Boycott (Score:2)
by somenickname (1270442) on Wednesday February 05, 2014 @08:47PM (#46169131)
Just registered bangslashdot.com/net/org (!/.) in case Slashdot needs to be forked to a new site. Will happily sell the domain to a more capable web-type for the exact price I paid (with the stipulation that I get a low UID).

* Consider a '''name change'''. If you're serious about this, then the name "AltSlashdot" will run you into legal trouble down the road, since Slashdot/Dice/etc. will sue for Trademark infringement (and will have a solid case). Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~tpaudio tpaudio] suggested [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46170795 "Plusdot"]. Another idea (mine) is to call it "divergence" or "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence divergence operator]"... the logo would be the mathematical form of divergence, i.e. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol nabla] symbol followed by a dot (which looks like an augmented "slash dot"). --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].
** I agree with JustinOpinion, any name with "slash" or "dot" in it will put us in the crosshairs of Dice's lawyers, and we do not want that. "Divergence" is nice. --[[User:Sir Garlon]] 16:36, 2014-02-06 (EST)
** Perhaps altslash.org? Sounds far enough from slashdot to avoid problems, but close enough to clue in any refugees. [[User:Max Hyre|Max Hyre]] ([[User talk:Max Hyre|talk]]) 08:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)
** I'm gonna vote for '''divergence''', I think the name along speaks to the community as to why we want something different/better than the aim of SlashFail Beta. (keick)
** Vote for '''divergence''' also for the same reasons as mentioned above (Qwade)
** I also vote for '''divergence''' anything that comes out of this will probably be eyed by Dice legal. (Nightbrood)

* I agree that AltSlashdot is hard to pronounce, but wasn't that the idea behind h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-o-r-g (that is should be hard to pronounce)? [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:41, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* The name "AltSlashdot" does not "mouth" well. May I suggest "Slashfork"? --[[User:Koen|Koen]] ([[User talk:Koen|talk]]) 08:52, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* How about betterthanbeta.org or similar? After all, we all know what created this. Another option would be some meme-based thing, like frostyhotgrits.org. Actually, frostyhotgrits.org would be both unique, and make most Slashdotters feel right at home. Greets, Iskender (1040286) [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 09:39, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* backslashdot.org. Backslash. Back to basics. Back to the old school. Hell yea.
**Alternatively - why not a more elegant backslash.org ? --kell

* can we get one of those new top-level domains, like .bank, except instead get .dot? Then name it SlashSlash.dot ;-)

* I second the person who suggested dot-dot-slash (../). Going up a directory is like going "back", which is the purpose of the new site - going back to how things used to be.
** This does seem to be the clear winner. Though backslash.com (which appears to be a parked domain) would work well too, since it's not *immediately* obvious legally that we stole the name (back slash dot com) from slashdot. Too bad dashdot.com and slashdotdash.com are both real in-use sites. slashdotdashdot.com appears to be parked, though.
**I second backslash.com if the domain can be obtained. ../ would be the subtler option, and I'm in favor of it.

* May I suggest HashBang (#!), I think it has a slightly better ring to it than hashbash
** I think anything with "#!" is probably going to be too close to Crunchbang Linux. They use that exact shorthand symbol. - Cactus

* Some fantastic ideas: SlashStar (/*), SlashSlash (//), ShebangShebang (#!#!), HotGrits, SovietSlashdot, DotSlash (./), DotSlashDot (./.), GNU/Slashdot (GNU//.), GNS (GNS = "GNP's Not Slashdot", and GNP = "Grits on Natalie Portman"), CowboyNeal.net, RoblimosOrphans.org, BangBangBang (!!!), CarrotSlashSlashSlashDot (^\/\.), YoungPastyHonkies.net, NoDiceSlashdot, SlashReset (/Reset), Carrotdot (^.), SlashHash (/#), PurpleTaro, CowboyNealOption, DennisRitchieIsGod.com, Ctrl-H (^H), Ctrl-C (^C), HGNP (Hot Grits on Natalie Portman)
* *.onion

* altslashctrl -- sort of gets the point across

* nodice.org and no-dice.org are unfortunately not available. -- [[User:Stderr dk|Stderr dk]] ([[User talk:Stderr dk|talk]]) 12:00, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* dicetoss.org is available

How much would dice holdings sell the classic slashdot.org site for? They can keep SlashTV, SlashBI, etc.

* I think the name should be kept to two syllables or less. Some of my favorites: dotdot (..), notdot(!.), backslash (\). Although it may be better to define the site based on what it is (is there any vision here other than 'slashdot classic'?) rather than what it isn't (slashdot beta). If this gains traction, it will be on its own merits and not because it forked slashcode. Maybe something like hashtech (#tech)? Works for old school IRC nerds and twitter hashtags.
** Not that I'm a particular fan of social media, but I do like #tech.
** +1 for '''backslash'''. Sounds like backlash, refers to Slashdot, and still a keyboard character. Apparantly, the domain BACKSLASH DOT ORG is for sale: [http://backslash.org/] (Moderator - 189749)
** +1 for backslash here..

* How about BangDot or KillDot? It sounds similar, but it is different enough than nobody will be able to claim it leads to confusion.
* How about Tildedot? h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-dot-tidle-dot-dot-org? (keick)
** Or maybe !|.org? BangPipe :) (keick)

* Can we stick these in a table please? With a column that indicates their status (taken - in use / taken - parked / available)? It also makes sense to group them into classes like: anti-dice, recognisably-similar-to-slashdot, novel. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:07, 6 February 2014 (MST) (FatPhil)

* I vote for hashbang.com unfortunately it seems that someone is parked on it. (Githaron)

* I think it has to be of the same spirit as slashdot. Taco wanted it to be confusing for people to type into a browser after hearing it h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-org. I suggust something in that vein, tuned to the current mobile app store. I'd suggust something like the PlayAppStore. You'd sound like an idiot trying to explain it to someone else: go to playappstore

* Or we could go really go back to chips & dip, the previous name of slashdot,
it looks like the domain name has expired when i did a whois search. I liked the idea of using hashbang but like someone else pointed out it is used...

* I second both "chips and dip" and "dotdotslash" as clever alternatives. Divergence is second tier but I will also support it if no other alternatives gain traction.

* Is something like slashplusplus or something similar available? I like it because it is an increment of the past variable. Only downside is the slash in the name might not sit well with Dice legal. Trying to stay true to Taco's original naming convention is going to be difficult. (Nightbrood)

* My suggestions/picks would be '''hashslash''' (#/ -- not slashhash, btw); '''backslash''' (this is probably easier to defend if Dice tries to argue trademark); '''hotgrits''' (it's a short, catchy, very uniquely slashdot meme that also alludes to news, as in "hot off the presses"); '''frostpist''' (another strongly slashdot-flavored meme). --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

* I'll also throw this in: '''RTFC''' (read the fucking comments, because as several people have pointed out in the FuckBeta threads, slashdot has always been more about the community and the comments we post, and not really about the articles). --[[User:Voidphoenix|voidphoenix (710468)]] ([[User talk:Voidphoenix|talk]])

* Why do all the names have to reference slashdot in some way? Move on... think of something completely different and leave the past behind.

==Name Options==
Please add ideas to these tables. Where possible, note if the URL is available. Consider adding your username to the 'votes' column.

====References to Slashdot, Beta, Dice, etc.====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| AltSlashot
| Alt/.
| altslashdot.org (registered by us)
| ''Trademark issues!''
|-
| AltSlash
| Alt/
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| AtSlash
| @/
|
| ''.org appears open. "I read it at atslashdotorg"''
|-
| '''FBeta'''
|
| fbeta.org
|
|-
| '''ForkBeta'''
|
| forkbeta.org
|
|-
| ForkSlashdot
|
|
|
|-
| SlashFork
|
|
|
|-
| SlashNot
| /!
|
|
|-
| '''BackSlash'''
| \
|
| Slashdot actually has a subsection called 'backslash'.
|-
| KillDot
|
|
|
|-
| KillBeta
|
|
|
|-
| DieBetaDie
|
|
|
|-
| BetterThanBeta
|
|
|
|-
| NoDice
|
|
|
|-
| DiceToss
|
|
|
|-
| NoDiceAllowed
|
|
| Domain Available
|-
| ColonSlash
|
|
| Because it looks funny (suggested on reddit)
|-
|SlashDash
|/-
|
|
|-
|CandyCrushSlashdotSaga
|
|
|
|-
|NoCountryForOldDevs
|
|
|
|-
|NoBeta
|
|
|meow
|-
|RTFC
|
|
|because TFC are what /. is about -- who needs TFA, or even TFS? :)
|}

====Typographic/Computer Puns====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| '''''DotDotSlash'''''
| ../
|
| As in "cd ../" ... also implies going back or up a level
|-
| HashBash
| #!(/bin/bash)
|
|
|-
| HashBang
| #!
| URL taken (parked domain)
| Possible confusion with Crunchbang Linux?
|-
| HashDot
| #.
|
|
|-
| HashSlash
| #/
|
| about "slash"; or tagged "slash"
|-
| DotDot
| ..
|
|
|-
| NotDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BangDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BackDot
| \.
|
|
|-
| BangSlashDot
| !/.
| Available to us (registered by Slashdot user somenickname (184564)).
|
|-
| TildeDot
| ~.
|
|
|-
| BangPipe
| !|
|
|
|-
| SlashStar
| /*
|
| Used in C to comment code, in recognition that the focus is on comments
|-
| SlashSlash
| //
|
|
|-
| ShebangShebang
| #!#!
|
|
|-
| CaretSlashSlashSlashDot
| ^\/\.
|
|
|-
| CaretDot
| ^.
|
|
|-
| SlashHash
| /#
|
|
|-
| PlusDot
| +.
|
|
|-
| BinBash
| /bin/bash
|
|
|-
| SlashUsr
| /usr
|
|
|-
| SlashHome
| /home
|
|
|-
| SlashVarLog
| /var/log
|
|
|-
| divergence
|
|
| The name represents how we're going in a new direction. Also, the symbol could be the mathematical divergence operator: a 'nabla' followed by a dot, which looks like an 'augmented' version of a slash followed by a dot.
|-
| HashTech
| #tech
|
| Has dual IRC and hastag meanings.
|-
| AtNot
| @!
|
| Short
|-
| PlayAppStore
|
|
| "Slashdot" was meant to confuse neophytes reading it aloud; the modern equivalent would be calling a site something like "PlayAppStore".
|}

====Memes====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| CowboyNeal
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| Cyborg Bill
|
|
| ''Was this the right term?''
|-
| Natalie Portman
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| FrostPist
|
|
|
|-
| FrostyHotGrits
|
| .com, .net, ,org available :-)
| [[User:Sir Garlon|Sir Garlon]]'s vote
|-
| HotGrits
|
| .org available
|
|-
|LaserSharks
|
|.net, .org available
|
|}

NewName

2014-02-06T21:36:50Z

Sir Garlon: