SoylentNews - User contributions [en]

Wiki

2017-08-04T06:16:00Z

Sir Finkus:

==Welcome==
This wiki serves many purposes including documentation, useful links, and team contacts. Suggestions have been made that would greatly expand the scope of the wiki. If you'd like to become officially involved or have any questions contact '''wiki@soylentnews.org'''. Also, if you are on IRC you can look for FunPika (who leads this team) or mrcoolbp.

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoarewe />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Wiki|Wiki Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| mrcoolbp
| admin/bureaucrat
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| cosurgi
| bureaucrat/janitor
| UTC+2
|-
|}
<section end=whoarewe />

=== Inactive ===
'''Note: These are members of the wiki team who have lost their onwiki flags such as admin due to inactivity. If they return, they can receive their flags back by contacting any [[SoylentNews:Bureaucrats|bureaucrat]].'''
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|Inactive Wiki Team members
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Cactus
| admin/bureaucrat (demoted due to inactivity in September 2014)
| ?
|-

|Sir Finkus
|bureaucrat/janitor (retired, August 2017)
|UTC-8
|-
| Yahwotqa
| admin (demoted due to inactivity in March 2014)
| ?
|-
| Sfm
| admin (demoted due to inactivity in March 2014)
| ?
|-
| FunPika
| Leader (demoted due to inactivity)
| ?
|-
|}

== Todo ==

*Find a way to categorize all of the pages on the wiki. See [[Special:UncategorizedCategories]], [[Special:UncategorizedFiles]], [[Special:UncategorizedPages]], and [[Special:UncategorizedTemplates]]. If anyone wants to help with this, copying the contents of [[User:FunPika/common.js]] to [[Special:MyPage/common.js]] will make it easier.

== Documentation ==
* The wiki is hosted on [[Beryllium]].
* MySQL password is in the wiki's LocalSettings.php file.
* Documentation for the recent changes IRC bot is at [[WikiRC]].

=== Responsibilities ===
* At the moment we are mainly just dealing with spam, vandalism, etc. that shows up on the wiki.

=== Competencies ===
* Familiarity with how MediaWiki works (manual is [[mediawikiwiki:Help:Contents|here]]).

== Dependencies ==
See also [[Special:Version]] for automatically generated information about what software the wiki is running.
* MediaWiki {{CURRENTVERSION}} (most recent [https://git.wikimedia.org/branches/mediawiki%2Fcore.git stable branch] (ex. REL1_23))
* Apache2
* PHP
** apc extension
** iconv extension
** intl extension
** mbstring extension
** mysql extension
** zlib extension
* MySQL
* ImageMagick for image thumbnailing
* Git for updating
* MediaWiki Extensions listed on [[Special:Version]]

__FORCETOC__

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Wiki]]

SoylentNews

2017-03-29T02:18:11Z

Sir Finkus: fixed some more links

This is a home for information about how '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' was started, and the vision for it.

==About SoylentNews.org==

Welcome to the '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' Wiki.

We deliver community-sourced news and discussion. This is an, grassroots effort powered by article submissions from our readers, volunteers, and our forked version of [https://github.com/SoylentNews/slashcode slashcode] called [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash 'Rehash']. We highlight stories on the web which are important to everyone - especially nerds. We also provide a soapbox for discussion moderated by the site's patrons, and allow anonymous discourse as there's no mandatory registration needed to comment.

We are mindful of community sentiment, and will not bend to overreaching corporate agenda. The goal is to be an excellent source for discussion and news about technology, art, science and politics.

We've incorporated as a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation (similar to a non-profit) as we feel our mission to provide a platform for news dissemination and relevant discussion is not only essential for mankind, but also a legal right (i.e. freedom of press, freedom of speech) in some places, and these are liberties which we aim to protect.

Though the site is young and there are [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues bugs], we are improving and adapting to satisfy the community's needs. We look forward to pushing the boundaries of web experience and are committed to involving the community on all major decisions.

==Get Involved==

This project is run entirely by the community and there are many ways to contribute. Here are some of the many ways to participate:

*'''[http://soylentnews.org/submit.pl Submit a Story]'''
** Try joining the #rss-bot channel in [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]] for story ideas
*'''Volunteer'''
** Get in touch with the '''[[Development|Development Team]]''', especially if you know perl
** Reach out to one of the other '''[[TeamPages|Teams]]''' (we have openings for many skill sets)
** Contact the relevant person: '''[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]'''
*Hop in to '''IRC:'''
** #soylent on irc.soylentnews.org/6697
** [http://irc.sylnt.us/?channels=#soylent Webchat]
** [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC Wiki Page]]
*'''Bugs''' and Features:
** [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues/new Submit a bug or Feature Request]
** [[Suggestions|Add a Suggestion]] - larger projects to tackle for the future
*'''Tell Somebody''' A friend, a colleague, any major news source....
** Do what you can to [[Spreading the word|get the word out]]
** You could participate in [[The_Slashcott|The Slashcott]]

==Contacts==

A list of people working on this project:
===[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]===

== Useful Links ==

*[[Submission guidelines]] - best practices for story submissions
*[[Story Style]] - a guide for editors on article formatting
*[[Development]] team page
**[https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash Code Repo] - The Slashcode fork repository for this project on GitHub
** <strike>[[DevelopmentVMHowto]] - How to get our code setup in a VM</strike>
** [[SlashDocumentationIndex]]
*[[UserExperience]] team page
**[[Style]] - some of this info needs to be merged/moved/organized into/with [[UserExperience]]
**[[CssWork]]
* [[SystemAdministration|System Administration]]
*[[Finances]] - Breakdown of our proposed spending
*[[Licensing]] - ideas about which license to use for our slashcode fork
*[[Staff_Meetings|Staff Meeting Logs]]
*[[SoylentNews_PBC|SoylentNews PBC]]
*[[SoylentNews_Site_Policy|SoylentNews Policy]]

== Similar Projects ==
* [http://pipedot.org/ Pipedot] - A complete re-write that uses a modern codebase and sports a clean look
* Usenet newsgroup comp.misc - [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.misc on Google Groups], [http://squte.com/ on Squte], [news:comp.misc via newsreader application]
* [http://technocrat.net/ Technocrat] - (now defunt) News site presented by Bruce Perens

== Archive ==

[[Archive]] -- An archive of obsolete pages/discussions that occurred before launch

SoylentNews

2017-03-29T02:14:31Z

Sir Finkus:

This is a home for information about how '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' was started, and the vision for it.

==About SoylentNews.org==

Welcome to the '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' Wiki.

We deliver community-sourced news and discussion. This is an [https://github.com/SoylentNews/slashcode open-source], grassroots effort powered by article submissions from our readers, volunteers, and our forked version of slashcode called 'Rehash'. We highlight stories on the web which are important to everyone - especially nerds. We also provide a soapbox for discussion moderated by the site's patrons, and allow anonymous discourse as there's no mandatory registration needed to comment.

We are mindful of community sentiment, and will not bend to overreaching corporate agenda. The goal is to be an excellent source for discussion and news about technology, art, science and politics.

We've incorporated as a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation (similar to a non-profit) as we feel our mission to provide a platform for news dissemination and relevant discussion is not only essential for mankind, but also a legal right (i.e. freedom of press, freedom of speech) in some places, and these are liberties which we aim to protect.

Though the site is young and there are [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues bugs], we are improving and adapting to satisfy the community's needs. We look forward to pushing the boundaries of web experience and are committed to involving the community on all major decisions.

==Get Involved==

This project is run entirely by the community and there are many ways to contribute. Here are some of the many ways to participate:

*'''[http://soylentnews.org/submit.pl Submit a Story]'''
** Try joining the #rss-bot channel in [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]] for story ideas
*'''Volunteer'''
** Get in touch with the '''[[Development|Development Team]]''', especially if you know perl
** Reach out to one of the other '''[[TeamPages|Teams]]''' (we have openings for many skill sets)
** Contact the relevant person: '''[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]'''
*Hop in to '''IRC:'''
** #soylent on irc.soylentnews.org/6697
** [http://irc.sylnt.us/?channels=#soylent Webchat]
** [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC Wiki Page]]
*'''Bugs''' and Features:
** [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues/new Submit a bug or Feature Request]
** [[Suggestions|Add a Suggestion]] - larger projects to tackle for the future
*'''Tell Somebody''' A friend, a colleague, any major news source....
** Do what you can to [[Spreading the word|get the word out]]
** You could participate in [[The_Slashcott|The Slashcott]]

==Contacts==

A list of people working on this project:
===[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]===

== Useful Links ==

*[[Submission guidelines]] - best practices for story submissions
*[[Story Style]] - a guide for editors on article formatting
*[[Development]] team page
**[https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash Code Repo] - The Slashcode fork repository for this project on GitHub
** <strike>[[DevelopmentVMHowto]] - How to get our code setup in a VM</strike>
** [[SlashDocumentationIndex]]
*[[UserExperience]] team page
**[[Style]] - some of this info needs to be merged/moved/organized into/with [[UserExperience]]
**[[CssWork]]
* [[SystemAdministration|System Administration]]
*[[Finances]] - Breakdown of our proposed spending
*[[Licensing]] - ideas about which license to use for our slashcode fork
*[[Staff_Meetings|Staff Meeting Logs]]
*[[SoylentNews_PBC|SoylentNews PBC]]
*[[SoylentNews_Site_Policy|SoylentNews Policy]]

== Similar Projects ==
* [http://pipedot.org/ Pipedot] - A complete re-write that uses a modern codebase and sports a clean look
* Usenet newsgroup comp.misc - [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.misc on Google Groups], [http://squte.com/ on Squte], [news:comp.misc via newsreader application]
* [http://technocrat.net/ Technocrat] - (now defunt) News site presented by Bruce Perens

== Archive ==

[[Archive]] -- An archive of obsolete pages/discussions that occurred before launch

SoylentNews

2017-03-29T02:11:29Z

Sir Finkus: updated link to proper repo

This is a home for information about how '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' was started, and the vision for it.

==About SoylentNews.org==

Welcome to the '''[http://soylentnews.org SoylentNews.org]''' Wiki.

We deliver community-sourced news and discussion. This is an [https://github.com/SoylentNews/slashcode open-source], grassroots effort powered by article submissions from our readers, volunteers, and our forked version of slashcode called 'Rehash'. We highlight stories on the web which are important to everyone - especially nerds. We also provide a soapbox for discussion moderated by the site's patrons, and allow anonymous discourse as there's no mandatory registration needed to comment.

We are mindful of community sentiment, and will not bend to overreaching corporate agenda. The goal is to be an excellent source for discussion and news about technology, art, science and politics.

We've incorporated as a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation (similar to a non-profit) as we feel our mission to provide a platform for news dissemination and relevant discussion is not only essential for mankind, but also a legal right (i.e. freedom of press, freedom of speech) in some places, and these are liberties which we aim to protect.

Though the site is young and there are [https://github.com/SoylentNews/slashcode/issues bugs], we are improving and adapting to satisfy the community's needs. We look forward to pushing the boundaries of web experience and are committed to involving the community on all major decisions.

==Get Involved==

This project is run entirely by the community and there are many ways to contribute. Here are some of the many ways to participate:

*'''[http://soylentnews.org/submit.pl Submit a Story]'''
** Try joining the #rss-bot channel in [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]] for story ideas
*'''Volunteer'''
** Get in touch with the '''[[Development|Development Team]]''', especially if you know perl
** Reach out to one of the other '''[[TeamPages|Teams]]''' (we have openings for many skill sets)
** Contact the relevant person: '''[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]'''
*Hop in to '''IRC:'''
** #soylent on irc.soylentnews.org/6697
** [http://irc.sylnt.us/?channels=#soylent Webchat]
** [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC Wiki Page]]
*'''Bugs''' and Features:
** [https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash/issues/new Submit a bug or Feature Request]
** [[Suggestions|Add a Suggestion]] - larger projects to tackle for the future
*'''Tell Somebody''' A friend, a colleague, any major news source....
** Do what you can to [[Spreading the word|get the word out]]
** You could participate in [[The_Slashcott|The Slashcott]]

==Contacts==

A list of people working on this project:
===[[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]===

== Useful Links ==

*[[Submission guidelines]] - best practices for story submissions
*[[Story Style]] - a guide for editors on article formatting
*[[Development]] team page
**[https://github.com/SoylentNews/rehash Code Repo] - The Slashcode fork repository for this project on GitHub
** <strike>[[DevelopmentVMHowto]] - How to get our code setup in a VM</strike>
** [[SlashDocumentationIndex]]
*[[UserExperience]] team page
**[[Style]] - some of this info needs to be merged/moved/organized into/with [[UserExperience]]
**[[CssWork]]
* [[SystemAdministration|System Administration]]
*[[Finances]] - Breakdown of our proposed spending
*[[Licensing]] - ideas about which license to use for our slashcode fork
*[[Staff_Meetings|Staff Meeting Logs]]
*[[SoylentNews_PBC|SoylentNews PBC]]
*[[SoylentNews_Site_Policy|SoylentNews Policy]]

== Similar Projects ==
* [http://pipedot.org/ Pipedot] - A complete re-write that uses a modern codebase and sports a clean look
* Usenet newsgroup comp.misc - [https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/comp.misc on Google Groups], [http://squte.com/ on Squte], [news:comp.misc via newsreader application]
* [http://technocrat.net/ Technocrat] - (now defunt) News site presented by Bruce Perens

== Archive ==

[[Archive]] -- An archive of obsolete pages/discussions that occurred before launch

MediaWiki:Sidebar

2017-03-29T02:08:03Z

Sir Finkus: updated links to github repos to point at current code repos

User:Sir Finkus/common.js

2017-03-29T01:56:02Z

Sir Finkus: Created page with "window.hotcat_translations_from_commons = true; /* This imports the latest version of HotCat from Commons. HotCat is a gadget to make changes to categories much easier. F..."

window.hotcat_translations_from_commons = true;

/*
This imports the latest version of HotCat from Commons.
HotCat is a gadget to make changes to categories much easier.
Full documentation can be found at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Gadget-HotCat
*/
mw.loader.load( '//commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Gadget-HotCat.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript' );

WikiRC

2017-03-29T01:22:28Z

Sir Finkus: updated directory information

'''WikiRC''' is the IRC bot that posts the [[Special:RecentChanges|recent changes]] feed in the #wiki channel on irc.sylnt.us.

== Documentation ==
*Uses [http://svn.red-bean.com/repos/ircbots/trunk/ beanbot] to output a UDP stream from the wiki.
**Line 119 in beanbot.py is modified so that 'IDENTIFY' is in lowercase.
*Cloaked as Soylent/Bot/WikiRC.
*In /home/sylnt/wikirc on [[SystemAdministration/Server/Beryllium|Beryllium]].
*Configuration including NickServ password is in /home/sylnt/wikirc/beanbot.conf
*Running as funpika using <code>screen -S wikirc python beanbot.py</code>.

=== Wiki configuration ===
From LocalSettings.php:
<syntaxhighlight lang="php">
$wgRCFeeds['irc'] = array(
'formatter' => 'IRCColourfulRCFeedFormatter',
'uri' => 'udp://localhost:1338', // Not the port actually being used
'add_interwiki_prefix' => false,
'omit_bots' => true,
);
</syntaxhighlight>

[[Category:Wiki]]

User talk:Charon

2017-03-14T23:38:53Z

Sir Finkus: Welcome!

'''Welcome to ''SoylentNews''!'''
We hope you will contribute much and well.
You will probably want to read the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Contents help pages].
Again, welcome and have fun! [[User:Sir Finkus|Sir Finkus]] ([[User talk:Sir Finkus|talk]]) 23:38, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Finances5

2017-03-13T00:48:18Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances5" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal: $3,000 (Jan-Jun 2017). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,620 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$700 Tax preparations*
*$420 State Taxes*
*$230 Administrative/buffer*
*$33 domains*
All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a small percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

<nowiki>* (estimate of HALF the cost for the entire year to "spread" it throughout the FY)</nowiki>

Finances

2017-03-13T00:48:00Z

Sir Finkus:

Though all the day-to-day operations are completely handled by our volunteer staff in an ad-hoc nature, our official business entity [[SoylentNews_PBC|SoylentNews PBC]] technically makes financial decisions through the [[SoylentNews_PBC_Board_of_Directors|Board of Directors]] with their goal being the preservation of the 'public benefit' that this site entails.

Below is a list of all of the funding goals that we have had to date with an explanation of the breakdown of each:

* [[Finances1|Q1/Q2 2015]]
* [[Finances2|Q3/Q4 2015]]
* [[Finances3|Q1/Q2 2016]]
* [[Finances4|Q3/Q4 2016]]
* [[Finances5|Q1/Q2 2017]]

Discussion of future spending outside the realm of hosting/domains/taxes can be found on the [[ProposedSpending|Proposed Spending]] page.

Finances5

2017-03-13T00:47:01Z

Sir Finkus:

Finances5

2017-03-13T00:46:36Z

Sir Finkus: Created page with "<- Finances (parent) Funding goal: $3,000 (Jan-Mar 2017). Here's a breakdown: *$1,620 for server hosting/backups for 6 months *$700 Tax preparations* *$420 State Taxes* *..."

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal: $3,000 (Jan-Mar 2017). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,620 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$700 Tax preparations*
*$420 State Taxes*
*$230 Administrative/buffer*
*$33 domains*
All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a small percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

<nowiki>* (estimate of HALF the cost for the entire year to "spread" it throughout the FY)</nowiki>

Editors

2016-12-08T07:28:07Z

Sir Finkus: /* Who we are */

The editorial team is responsible for checking and revising (if required) user submitted stories. Prospective editors should be prepared to devote a significant amount of time to checking stories, have a good grasp of the English language, and be familiar with slash's formatting options. Contact: '''editors@soylentnews.org''', or join #editorial in [[SoylentNews:IRC |irc]].

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoweare />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Editors Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| janrinok
| editor
| UTC+1 (CET)
|-
| mrcoolbp
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| n1
| editor
| UTC
|-
| martyb
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| CoolHand
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NotSanguine
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Cmn32480
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| takyon
| editor
| ?
|-
| charon
| editor
| ?
|-
| GreatOutdoors
| editor
| ?
|-
| Snow
| editor
| ?
|-
| goodie
| editor
| ?
|-
| mrpg
| editor
| ?
|-
| Fnord666
| editor
| ?
|}
<section end=whoweare />

==Retired Members==
Former editors that have lost their roles due to inactivity or retirement
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Retired members]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Subsentient
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| LaminatorX
| Team Leader
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| Dopefish
| editor
| UTC-8 (PST)
|-
| mattie_p
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| zizban
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Azrael
| editor
| ?
|-
| Woods
| editor
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
|}

==Projects==

*Continue to develop editorial process (see Documentation below)
*Maintain static pages (FAQ.shtml, about.shtml, and moderation.shtml)

==Documentation==
<section begin=documentation />
*A [[Story_Style|Story Style]] document outlines editorial guidelines, it may need additional refining and ratification eventually.
* [[Editing_Process|The Editing Process]] - builds on the Story Style and Submission Guidelines to describe how the editing process is carried out.
* [[Submission_guidelines|Submission Guidelines]] - Notes to all users regarding the formatting of submissions and relevant rules.
* [[Editorial_Policy|Editorial Policy]] - Policy Statement of the Editorial Team
* [[EditorialHTML|Editorial HTML]] - HTML useful in Story Editing
<section end=documentation />

==Dependencies==
*Main Website (slash)
**[[EditorPrivileges|editor privileges]]

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Editorial team]]

Editors

2016-12-08T07:10:47Z

Sir Finkus: fixed some ugly formatting

The editorial team is responsible for checking and revising (if required) user submitted stories. Prospective editors should be prepared to devote a significant amount of time to checking stories, have a good grasp of the English language, and be familiar with slash's formatting options. Contact: '''editors@soylentnews.org''', or join #editorial in [[SoylentNews:IRC |irc]].

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoweare />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Editors Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| janrinok
| editor
| UTC+1 (CET)
|-
| mrcoolbp
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| n1
| editor
| UTC
|-
| martyb
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| CoolHand
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NotSanguine
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Cmn32480
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| takyon
| editor
| ?
|-
| charon
| editor
| ?
|-
| GreatOutdoors
| editor
| ?
|-
| Snow
| editor
| ?
|-
| goodie
| editor
| ?
|-
| mrpg
| editor
| ?
|}
<section end=whoweare />

==Retired Members==
Former editors that have lost their roles due to inactivity or retirement
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Retired members]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Subsentient
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| LaminatorX
| Team Leader
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| Dopefish
| editor
| UTC-8 (PST)
|-
| mattie_p
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| zizban
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Azrael
| editor
| ?
|-
| Woods
| editor
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
|}

==Projects==

*Continue to develop editorial process (see Documentation below)
*Maintain static pages (FAQ.shtml, about.shtml, and moderation.shtml)

==Documentation==
<section begin=documentation />
*A [[Story_Style|Story Style]] document outlines editorial guidelines, it may need additional refining and ratification eventually.
* [[Editing_Process|The Editing Process]] - builds on the Story Style and Submission Guidelines to describe how the editing process is carried out.
* [[Submission_guidelines|Submission Guidelines]] - Notes to all users regarding the formatting of submissions and relevant rules.
* [[Editorial_Policy|Editorial Policy]] - Policy Statement of the Editorial Team
* [[EditorialHTML|Editorial HTML]] - HTML useful in Story Editing
<section end=documentation />

==Dependencies==
*Main Website (slash)
**[[EditorPrivileges|editor privileges]]

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Editorial team]]

Editors

2016-12-08T07:10:29Z

Sir Finkus: /* Documentation */

The editorial team is responsible for checking and revising (if required) user submitted stories. Prospective editors should be prepared to devote a significant amount of time to checking stories, have a good grasp of the English language, and be familiar with slash's formatting options. Contact: '''editors@soylentnews.org''', or join #editorial in [[SoylentNews:IRC |irc]].

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoweare />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Editors Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| janrinok
| editor
| UTC+1 (CET)
|-
| mrcoolbp
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| n1
| editor
| UTC
|-
| martyb
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| CoolHand
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NotSanguine
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Cmn32480
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| takyon
| editor
| ?
|-
| charon
| editor
| ?
|-
| GreatOutdoors
| editor
| ?
|-
| Snow
| editor
| ?
|-
| goodie
| editor
| ?
|-
| mrpg
| editor
| ?
|}
<section end=whoweare />

==Retired Members==
Former editors that have lost their roles due to inactivity or retirement
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Retired members]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Subsentient
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| LaminatorX
| Team Leader
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| Dopefish
| editor
| UTC-8 (PST)
|-
| mattie_p
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| zizban
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Azrael
| editor
| ?
|-
| Woods
| editor
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
|}

==Projects==

*Continue to develop editorial process (see Documentation below)
*Maintain static pages (FAQ.shtml, about.shtml, and moderation.shtml)

==Documentation==
<section begin=documentation />
*A [[Story_Style|Story Style]] document outlines editorial guidelines, it may need additional refining and ratification eventually.
* [[Editing_Process|The Editing Process]] - builds on the Story Style and Submission Guidelines to describe how the editing process is carried out.
* [[Submission_guidelines|Submission Guidelines]] - Notes to all users regarding the formatting of submissions and relevant rules.
* [[Editorial_Policy|Editorial Policy]] - Policy Statement of the Editorial Team
* [[EditorialHTML|Editorial HTML]] - HTML useful in Story Editing

<section end=documentation />

==Dependencies==
*Main Website (slash)
**[[EditorPrivileges|editor privileges]]

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Editorial team]]

Editors

2016-12-08T07:10:18Z

Sir Finkus:

The editorial team is responsible for checking and revising (if required) user submitted stories. Prospective editors should be prepared to devote a significant amount of time to checking stories, have a good grasp of the English language, and be familiar with slash's formatting options. Contact: '''editors@soylentnews.org''', or join #editorial in [[SoylentNews:IRC |irc]].

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoweare />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Editors Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| janrinok
| editor
| UTC+1 (CET)
|-
| mrcoolbp
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| n1
| editor
| UTC
|-
| martyb
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| CoolHand
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NotSanguine
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Cmn32480
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| takyon
| editor
| ?
|-
| charon
| editor
| ?
|-
| GreatOutdoors
| editor
| ?
|-
| Snow
| editor
| ?
|-
| goodie
| editor
| ?
|-
| mrpg
| editor
| ?
|}
<section end=whoweare />

==Retired Members==
Former editors that have lost their roles due to inactivity or retirement
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Retired members]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Subsentient
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| LaminatorX
| Team Leader
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| Dopefish
| editor
| UTC-8 (PST)
|-
| mattie_p
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| zizban
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Azrael
| editor
| ?
|-
| Woods
| editor
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
|}

==Projects==

*Continue to develop editorial process (see Documentation below)
*Maintain static pages (FAQ.shtml, about.shtml, and moderation.shtml)

==Documentation==
<section begin=documentation />

*A [[Story_Style|Story Style]] document outlines editorial guidelines, it may need additional refining and ratification eventually.
* [[Editing_Process|The Editing Process]] - builds on the Story Style and Submission Guidelines to describe how the editing process is carried out.
* [[Submission_guidelines|Submission Guidelines]] - Notes to all users regarding the formatting of submissions and relevant rules.
* [[Editorial_Policy|Editorial Policy]] - Policy Statement of the Editorial Team
* [[EditorialHTML|Editorial HTML]] - HTML useful in Story Editing

<section end=documentation />

==Dependencies==
*Main Website (slash)
**[[EditorPrivileges|editor privileges]]

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Editorial team]]

Editors

2016-12-08T07:08:41Z

Sir Finkus: Added new editors

The editorial team is responsible for checking and revising (if required) user submitted stories. Prospective editors should be prepared to devote a significant amount of time to checking stories, have a good grasp of the English language, and be familiar with slash's formatting options. Contact: '''editors@soylentnews.org''', or join #editorial in [[SoylentNews:IRC |irc]].

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoweare />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Editors Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| janrinok
| editor
| UTC+1 (CET)
|-
| mrcoolbp
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| n1
| editor
| UTC
|-
| martyb
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| CoolHand
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NotSanguine
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Cmn32480
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| takyon
| editor
| ?
|-
| charon
| editor
| ?
|-
| GreatOutdoors
| editor
| ?
|-
| Snow
| editor
| ?
|-
| goodie
| editor
| ?
|-
| mrpg
| editor
| ?
|}
<section end=whoweare />

==Retired Members==
Former editors that have lost their roles due to inactivity or retirement
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[Editors|Retired members]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| Subsentient
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| LaminatorX
| Team Leader
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| Dopefish
| editor
| UTC-8 (PST)
|-
| mattie_p
| editor
| UTC-7 (MST)
|-
| zizban
| editor
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| Azrael
| editor
| ?
|-
| Woods
| editor
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
|}

==Projects==

*Create and Submit a press release
*Continue to develop editorial process (see Documentation below)
*Maintain static pages (FAQ.shtml, about.shtml, and moderation.shtml)

==Proposals==

(8/23/14) WATCH THIS SPACE FOR MORE DETAILS.

*[[Original_Content_Proposal|Original Content Proposal]]
*[[SNPodcast]]

==Documentation==
<section begin=documentation />

*A [[Story_Style|Story Style]] document outlines editorial guidelines, it may need additional refining and ratification eventually.
* [[Editing_Process|The Editing Process]] - builds on the Story Style and Submission Guidelines to describe how the editing process is carried out.
* [[Submission_guidelines|Submission Guidelines]] - Notes to all users regarding the formatting of submissions and relevant rules.
* [[Editorial_Policy|Editorial Policy]] - Policy Statement of the Editorial Team
* [[EditorialHTML|Editorial HTML]] - HTML useful in Story Editing

<section end=documentation />

==Dependencies==
*Main Website (slash)
**[[EditorPrivileges|editor privileges]]

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:Editorial team]]

Historic:Updates

2016-11-13T06:15:20Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Updates" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
Below is an archive of updates surrounding the initial launch of the main site.

==Updates==

'''2014-02-18 16:33 UTC:''' Taking a break (Feb 18, 2014 11:26AM EST)

This is largely a duplicate of a status further down.

I'm putting together a manifesto and vision statement to answer everyone's questions regarding the future of the project. Briefly, the community will choose all aspects of the project including the business model.

I'm planning on first giving the community the opportunity to choose a permanent name, then the business model, then I'll start implementing the model (incorporating or whatever) while we sort out the rest of the issues.

I have warmed to the notion of non-profit, and would like to set before the community a list of notes and observations to provoke discussion. I'm hoping to write this coming week and publish by next week or the week after. (Still lots of things to do!)

I'm not able to follow all the threads or forums, so if anyone asks, please pass this along.

I've asked the system developers to '''take a break''' for at least a week. People are tired, and if we don't let people slow down we'll lose them (this has already happened). Maybe some light bug fixing if you feel up to it, but otherwise I want people to be rested.

Let's let the editorial team find their stride, everyone get everyone familiar with the system, and pick up on it in about a week.

Regarding development, it's always been the plan to do things properly: install good infrastructure, have testbed systems for debug and research, and have people who coordinate and curate the process. It's hard to choose commanders from a pool of 60 people who you only know by E-mail and have just met. We've been lucky so far, but I still don't have overlords for dev and style.

Also of note, ''I'm'' tired and was hoping to coast along with dev. I'm addressing individual registration issues at a leisurely pace, so if you've E-mailed a problem it'll get done eventually.

--John Barrabas John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

'''2014-02-17 20:44 UTC:''' I'm correcting problems. (Feb 17, 3:44PM EST)

I'm correcting individual registration problems when I can. My plan is to address wide-reaching issues first, then hand-fix problems on an individual level to get everyone going.

We're getting an SSL cert, which should eliminate the "Untrusted" popups. The cert process can take up to 24 hours.

We've installed an SPF record in the zone file, which should prevent your provider from flagging registration E-mails as spam. Check the spam filter rules in your individual readers to see if they need adjusting.

Of roughly 900 users so far I have registration errors from less than 10, so we're doing pretty well for first rollout in such a big project. Teething problems.

-- John

'''2014-02-17 06:23 UTC:''' We're up and running! (Feb 17, 1:23AM EST)

Soylentils rejoice! And welcome to SoylentNews.org - we done went live!

We deliver the best community-sourced news for nerds. A grassroots platform powered by submissions from our readers, we draw attention to those stories on the web which are important to everyone - especially nerds. We also provide a soapbox for discussion, allowing the
community to comment without mandatory registration.

We are mindful of community sentiment, and do not bend to overreaching corporate agenda. We want to be your source for news about technology, art, science and politics.

We are the new kid on the block and are adapting quickly to satisfy our community's needs. We look forward to exceeding your expectations and pushing the boundaries of web experience. And we will make no changes without community support.

Thank you everyone for your help and support! It's been a long, arduous, frustrating effort, but the rewards are definitely worth it.

...and we're ''not done yet''!

----

'''2014-02-16 22:57 UTC:''' Adding MX records (Feb 16, 5:57PM EST)

I am adding new MX records to the zone file in preparation for first launch. Mail may be unavailable for a few minutes (the TTL is 30 min). If you get E-mail bounce messages, please try again in an hour or so.

--John Barrabas

'''2014-02-16 13:32 UTC:''' Reposted from the site:

So, since this site went up three days ago, we've made tremendous progress in getting this site up and functional, and many of you gone above and beyond to try and give us content and provide meaningful comments. I'm completely blown away to say the least. I've got some big news to share, and a list of site improvements made over the last few days. Read on for more details ...

Moderation: IT WORKS! I finished implementing the algorithm last night, and purging slash of the old one so they won't conflict. The new algorithm is somewhat of a radical departure from the old one. I won't go into full details in this post, but there's a good write-up in my comments here.

Comment Counts: Got these working (again). ACs will only see a static HTML page which is updated every once in awhile. Logged-in users get the dynamic index which should have up-to-date counts. The fix is a bit wonky, so it might snap again. Let me know ASAP as the moderation scripts depend on this number being present (and correct!)

Theme: As you may have noticed, the site looks less ass. Due to the heroic efforts of audioguy, Paul, and others, we've gotten a steady stream of CSS fixes to make the site look and feel more consistent. Its not perfect (Firefox still has width issues), but its a fair improvement. This is one of the last major launch blockers

Topics: Finally got them implemented after we snapped the site in two last night. For the moment, they're all sharing the same icon, so it seems kinda unimpressive, but hopefully we'll have the art assets sometime soon to get them in place. Editors will notice I updated the labels to make them a bit clearer; two important notes on this: For an article to show up you MUST have "The Main Page" in the topic list (slash will complain if you don't have it).

Signoff Requirements: A new feature of SoylentNews requires that editors must have a peer sign-off an article before it can be displayed to the world. Slash has some limited support for this, and I got it working last night. For editors, stories are now marked in red and state "unsigned" on the index if only one person has edited it. Right now, this check is not enforced, but I plan to hopefully address that soon. For the moment, editors can future date and use the buddy system to get things checked off properly so we can have consistent formatting and quality.

Other Changes: I stripped out some of the dead features that I probably won't have time to fix before launch like OpenID login, and fixed the admin spellchecker. I also have a couple of ideas to get varnish going I need to bounce off Robin.

-- NCommander

'''2014-02-16 04:40 UTC:''' Expanded Alpha (Feb 15, 11:40PM EST)

We are expanding our alpha test to 100 users (from 70) over the next 24 hours. Stay alert for ways to get in on the action! Check the IRC Channel for details! ##altshashdot on freenode.net I am passing out about 2-3 approximately every hour.

-- Mattie_p.

'''2014-02-16 04:26 UTC:''' The plan is coming (Feb 15, 2014 11:26PM EST)

I'm putting together a manifesto to answer everyone's questions regarding the future of the project. Briefly, the community will choose all aspects of the project including the business model.

I'm planning on first giving the community the opportunity to choose a permanent name, then the business model, then I'll start implementing the model (incorporating or whatever) while we sort out the rest of the issues.

I have warmed to the notion of non-profit, and would like to set before the community a list of notes and observations to provoke discussion. I'm hoping to write this coming week and publish by Friday next or the Monday after.

I'm not able to follow all the threads or forums, so if anyone asks, please pass this along.

--John Barrabas John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

'''2014-02-15 17:30 UTC:''' Alpha Test (Feb 15, 2014 12:30PM EST)

Greetings, fellow Soylentils. As of right now, we have 20 articles posted on the alpha test site and about 60 registered users, who have produced over 150 comments so far. We're slowly increasing the number of Alphans on a daily basis. The best way to get invited is to participate somewhere, either in the forums, the IRC (##altslashdot on freenode.net), or on the wiki page. Contribute articles via the forum. Make suggestions. Etc. Anyway, I'd ask everyone to carefully read the [[Alpha_Bugs|Alpha Bugs]] page, particularly the Introduction to Alpha, it will give you information that will help you become an Alphan. Thanks for reading. --Mattie_p

'''2014-02-14 09:50 UTC:''' Status (Feb 14, 2014 4:50AM EST)

Started mod system rework. Here's my writeup on thoughts from the test site:

As the to-do list of tasks continues to be whittled bit by bit towards launch, one large item remains: distribution of moderation points. While I wish I could reuse the existing Slash code, the fact is that this code is completely inappropriate for a site smaller than Slashdot. So, I've been working with a couple of users in chat to rework the underlying math so that mod point distribution actually works in a reasonable way. If you're interested in the potential algorithm behind this, read on. Be warned, it is a bit dry and technical.

The current thoughts are that slash should enforce that a specific number of mod points must ALWAYS be in circulation, and in the hands of our potential moderators. Without going into too much detail, we're running off the assumption that the total number of moderations applied in an article should approximately equal the number of comments. To account for inactive users and for the constant flow of new articles/comments, twice as many mod points will be distributed.
Have I lost you yet? To reiterate, two mod points must exist for every comment in active articles. As far as problems go, having too many mod points in circulation is far preferable to too few. If you don't understand why, I recommend trying to find +5 posts on other slash sites like Slashdot Japan or BarraPunto.

Here's an example:
Assuming that we have two articles with approximately 200 comments each, that means we need to have 800 points in circulation. However, if we stuck with the old Slashdot method of 5 points to a user, we'd end up needing to have 80 people read an article and not comment on it. Obviously, that's not going to work, and as we have more articles/comments, that number will only increase.

Instead, we'll limit the number of moderators to approximately 30% of active accounts who haven't moderated relatively recently. In this context, active means that you have logged in within the last 5 days. The process_moderators script will calculate how many mod points are currently in circulation, how many need to be in circulation, and how many, if any, it needs to add to the pool. It then looks at the list of eligible moderators, selects 30% of them, and hands them out. To prevent moderation fatigue, we'll cap the maximum number of points a user can receive, and by the same logic, also set a minimum. I don't know about you, but I'd be a little annoyed if I found I had gotten a whopping 1 whole mod point.

This should allow a relatively fluid system, and I hope, allow us to have something very similar to the moderation system we've all grown to love. I'm open to suggestions or even radically different ideas on how to improve this below.
[[User:NCommander|NCommander]] ([[User talk:NCommander|talk]])

'''2014-02-14 02:50 UTC:''' Status (Feb 13, 2014 9:00PM EST)

We just modified the DNS a little. It'll take awhile for the changes to propagate through the net. I bumped the TTL down to 30 minutes (from 3 hours), so future changes should go pretty fast. There may be some intermittent problems for a short while.

We're not going live ''just'' yet, but we're comfortable letting more people in. Slowly I turned, step by step...

NCommander installed FusionForge on the dev site. It comes with MediaWiki (the same package as this), forum software, project management, and integrated bug tracking. It's pretty nice. It's the same package that runs SourceForge, so it'll be familiar to many people.

There's not a lot of discussion on the forums about which bug tracker to use, so absent any wailing and gnashing-of-teeth, I'd like to go with his choice. If people don't like this, start a protest and we'll talk.

'''2014-02-13 18:08 UTC:''' Status (Feb 13, 2014 1:08PM EST)

NCommander, our chief architect and hero, who has been putting in marathon days since Friday, is taking a much-needed "mental health day". We are idling in test mode (a few editors, the systems team, the alpha-test group) for at least a day while people catch their breath.

Varnish, our web accelerator, is not passing site cookies back to the user so we've disabled it for now. This means that the site is working, just not able to handle any sort of high-traffic load.

It's been pointed out that the wiki is a bad place to manage bugs. I agree completely, but for the first day it tends to avoid duplicates and it was only for a day or so anyway.

There's been some discussion among the ''system'' group (about a dozen people) about bug trackers, but that decision should really come from the ''dev'' team (30 or more, on the forum). The dev team should start discussing what they'd like to see for bug tracking on the forums. I'll monitor the thread and take consensus opinion (if there is one), or make an executive decision.

Please keep in mind the full scope of project bug tracking. System has suggested bug tracking be split into two sections - a mantis install, easy and user-friendly, used for overall site issues, and GitHub for technical issues which might be more appropriate for engineering bugs. Also, we intend to release the code open-source, so GitHub could field technical issues from other sites using our interface.

Food for thought.

'''2014-02-13 05:33 UTC:''' Status (Feb 13, 2014 12:33AM EST)

A select few editors, dev, and system types are working through the system finding bugs. User registration works, there are stories on the front page, comments and replies. A screenshot of testing from last night is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52836172/2014-02-13-SN-aplha.png

We could use a temporary bug tracking system that's easily accessible by the users (ie - not requiring onerous registration). Can anyone hook us up?
: How about "Bug:" namespace here on wiki? [[User:Yahwotqa|Yahwotqa]] ([[User talk:Yahwotqa|talk]]) 00:45, 13 February 2014 (MST) <=== Done
:: If you expect more reports, I suggest using something structured like [[Template:Bug]] (example use in [[Bug:Testbug]]). Expand the template however you see fit. :) [[User:Yahwotqa|Yahwotqa]] ([[User talk:Yahwotqa|talk]]) 02:07, 13 February 2014 (MST)
::: Technically, this solution still requires registration (since anonymous editing is disabled on the wiki), and I don't think it would be able to handle some usual features of bug trackers like being able to list issues and filter them by stuff like their status. [[User:FunPika|Fun]][[User_Talk:FunPika|Pika]] 04:22, 13 February 2014 (MST)
:::: I created a [[Bug tracker]] page for figuring out what we want to do. [[User:FunPika|Fun]][[User_Talk:FunPika|Pika]] 05:23, 13 February 2014 (MST)
: Why temporary? We should just get a proper bug tracker in place then even in the future when someone notices a quirk they can report it. One of the big issues with /. was people were constantly complaining about bugs with no way to tell if they were being addressed. How long were people complaining about unicode support? [[User:Vanderhoth|Vanderhoth]]

: ''Later we want to have recommendations and properly choose a system that's well suited. At present, we don't want to spend time on things not directly related to bringing the system up. -John''

E-mail me: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

'''2014-02-13 02:40 UTC:''' Status (Feb 12, 2014 9:40PM EST)

Freenode is complaining "Server is full" and not letting me into chat, so this is a '''guess status''' :-)

Thanks to everyone who volunteered to help test the system this evening. At the last minute, the team found a nest of bugs that effectively broke the moderation system, so testing was put off until 10:PM EST, and then later was put off until Thu.

* Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn’t have to do it himself.
* Any project can be estimated accurately once it’s completed.
* The sooner you get behind schedule, the more time you have to make it up.
* A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected
* A well planned project only twice as long as expected.
* Schedules are made to be broken
* Work expands to fill the Time. Cost expands to meet the Budget.
* The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The last 10% takes the other 90%.
* The only certainty in a project is uncertainty
* On time, on budget, on spec – pick 2.

'''2014-02-12 13:24 UTC:''' Status (Feb, 12 2014 8:24 EST)

'''WE HAVE A FIRST POST'''

From the site:
I know its been a long wait, but we've been steadily moving towards launch. With luck, you're reading this on the main index of the site, which means we've gone, and haven't gone mad in the process. Now that we're here, we hope to have made the wait worth it, but we depend on everyone in the community. To make this site a success, we depend on each and every single user even if its just from passing word of mouth. Remember, every single user can submit stories, moderate, and contribute to discussions all at the same time, and that's what makes us unique. May I be the first to welcome you to your new home.

[[http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16708]]

'''2014-02-11 20:01 UTC:''' Status (Feb 11, 2014 3:01PM EST)

We have a working system, and two people fixing the CSS (sadly, none for sphinx). As far as I can tell, we're trying to get the high-bandwidth aspects of the site running: Varnish, MySQL configuration options, and such. We want the system to be able to withstand a tsunami of visitors 10 meters high.

The system team has been working around the clock to get things running, and I mean that literally. I have to as-much-as order people to break off at night and go to bed. They *really* want to see this thing work. Send them some love in chat if you can.

Note that these are not "deadlines", nor do I particularly care if we miss them: We're reporting when we "predict" things will be ready. The first 90% of the project is done, now we're working on the remaining 90%.

Stand by for launch...

P.S. - Check out the logo

'''2014-02-11 17:01 UTC:''' Need some sphinx help (Feb 11, 2014 12:01PM EST)

We still need [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_(search_engine) sphinx (search engine)]
expertise, so if you are familiar with this package, please E-mail me:

If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

'''Quick Update:'''

* We upgraded the hosting by two tiers
* The System team is working on installing SlashCode. They are busting their collective tails to get this site up for us. Hopefylly, soon!
* This *might* be non-profit, see [[Finances|business model]].
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

Historic:Updates

2016-11-13T06:15:01Z

Sir Finkus:

Incorporation/Bylaws

2016-11-11T03:03:45Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Incorporation/Bylaws" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

'''DO NOT EDIT THIS DOCUMENT WITHOUT TALKING TO NCOMMANDER, MATT_, OR MRCOOLBP!'''

'''LIBRENEWS FOUNDATION BYLAWS'''

== Article I ~ Name ==

The name of this corporation (hereinafter referred to as the Foundation) shall be LibreNews Foundation.

== Article II ~ Purpose ==

The purposes of the Foundation shall be:
* to create the best sources for independent, not-for-profit journalism
* to create forums where people can discuss, and review any topic
* to be an advocate for freedom of press, freedom of speech, and digital rights
* to improve the dissemination of news to the general public
* to help promote awareness of issues and challenges facing the aforementioned items.
* to provide a legal basis for member sites which promote the purposes of the Foundation

== Article III ~ Membership ==

The Foundation shall have no members..

== Article IV ~ Member Sites ==

=== Section 1 - Creation of a Member Site ===
Voting for a new Member Site requires a majority vote of voting members present at a Board Meeting. New Member Sites may be proposed either by a Board Member or by an independent organization. Such proposals must be submitted to the Secretary, in writing, at least ten (10) business days prior to the Foundation Board meeting in which it is to be discussed/voted.

=== Section 2 - Member Site Charter ===
Each Member Site shall draft and present the Board of Directors with a charter that defines their operational procedures, and specific objectives. This charter shall include the following:
 '''ISSUE: what do we do about the site amending their charter after becoming a member''' 
'''ISSUE: how do we deal with disputes over the site charter between the board and the site's owners.'''
 '''Suggested resolution to both issues''': Amendments to a member site's charter must be approved by the Foundation Board-[[User:Mrcoolbp|mrcoolbp]] ([[User talk:Mrcoolbp|talk]]) 18:51, 3 June 2014 (UTC) 

* Name of the member site
* Specific objectives of the member site
* Operating staff positions of the member site
* Projected operating budget
* Method of Dissolution

Each Member Site shall appoint a member of its staff to represent it at Foundation meetings, and to raise issues regarding that Member Site.
 '''ISSUE: Does the staff member have a[n equal] vote at Foundation meetings?'''

=== Section 3 - Division of Income ===
A member site may raise funds via any means legal within the State of New Hampshire, and in accordance with both its charter and these bylaws. Money raised by a member site shall be deposited in an account designated by the Treasurer, and be divided in the following matter

* 10% of incoming funds shall be placed in account designated as "Available Funds" for a member site to use freely towards the benefit of their objectives.
* 10% of incoming funds shall be placed in the main account for the Foundation, to provide funding for Foundation activities.
* The remaining 80% shall be placed in trust between a member-site and the Foundation

The division of funds may be changed via agreement between the Board of Directors, and the operating staff of a Member Site.

=== Section 4 - Trust Funds ===
Each site's trust fund is money that set aside for the use of the Member Site that raised it. Funds in trust are reserved for the member site that raised it, but the Board of Directors may, at their discretion, leverage funds against trust accounts for the benefit of the Foundation as a whole. Staff from a member site may request access to funds in their trust for any purpose by submitting a request to the Secretary.

Requests may be one-time (i.e. purchase order), or in perpetuity (i.e., hosting expenses, employee salaries), and shall be submitted to the Treasurer any time at least ten (10) business days prior to the meeting at which they are to be raised. Assuming available funding, requests shall be approved unless there is any legal, pressing, or overwhelming reason(s) for such a request to be denied. In the case that the Treasurer determines a request for funds should be denied, the decision will be brought before the board to vote on at the next meeting.

Upon approval, funds shall be transferred to the Member Site's available funds, for use in the matter the request approved for.

=== Section 5 - Expenditure of Funds ===
Member Sites must maintain a record of use of all expenditures, and submit such records to the Treasurer, to be documented as part of the general expenditures of the Foundation. All expenditures of funds shall only be used to further the objectives of a member site, or the Fondation as a whole, and must meet the requirements set by these bylaws.

=== Section 6 - Employment by Member Sites ===
Member sites may, if they choose to hire full-time employees, part-time employees or contractors (collective referred to as "Paid Positions") to conduct duties including, but not limited to, site operation and maintenance, promotional activities and administrative support. The Operating Staff of a Member Site must submit a request for a paid position to the Secretary and Treasurer with the position name, description, and maximum expected expense that the respective site is willing to incur for said position.

For periods of employment for less than one (1) year, the member site must have funds available for the full duration of the position. For paid positions lasting more than one (1) year, funds must be available for at least one year. This condition may be waved by the Board of Directors if a Member Site's incoming revenue is stable, and can be expected to be maintained for the duration of employment.

Upon receiving a request, funds shall be transferred to the Foundation's account and the Foundation shall open a hiring requisition for the position, prudent to all rules and regulations in the State of New Hampshire and the United States Department of Labor. The Foundation in accordance with the Member Site shall select a candidate and make an offer of employment on behalf of a member site. A Member Site may withdraw their request for a paid position at any time; the Foundation shall return funds withdrawn from a member site account within ten (10) business days of the position being withdrawn.

Member sites may include paid positions within their organizational charts as they see fit. Paid positions of a member site are considered employees or contractors of the Foundation for all intents and purposes, and subject to same standards of behaviour of any volunteer of the organization. All paid positions are subject to these bylaws, as well as the charter of the member site which sponsored their employment. In the case of termination of an employee, remaining funds set aside for that position shall be returned to the Member Site within ten (10) business days.

=== Section 7 - Dissolution ===
A Member Site may be dissolved by either its own operating staff, or by the Board of Directors by majority vote if just cause exists. Upon dissolution, all assets operated by a member site shall immediately be controlled by the Board of Directors. '''ISSUE: why should foundation dissolve a member site. This can be abused to steal their funds. This should only be done when a site is essentially dead (i.e. no contact by the site's admins, or when there is an issue like the member site is knowingly hosting illegal stuff like CP).'''

'''ISSUE: how does a site unjoin the foundation and what happens to their funds. Should they be returned with a small maintenance fee removed?'''

== Article V ~ Board of Directors ==

'''ISSUE: no mention on how to become a board member, term lengths, and such. Also weather the member site's representative is a board member or just a non-voting attendee. Are Officers members of the board upon being voted on if they are not already board members. do we have members-at-large and do they have voting rights (i.e. community members that are part of the board for a period of time)'''

=== Section 1 - List of Offices ===
The officers of this association shall be:

* President
* Vice-President
* Secretary
* Treasurer

=== Section 2 - Term Lengths ===
Officers shall be elected by majority vote of the board present at the annual meeting for the term of two years.

=== Section 3 - Term Start ===
The term of officers so elected shall begin with the next meeting following the annual meeting, and shall continue until their successors take office (following an election).

=== Section 4 - Vacancies ===
A vacancy in any office shall be filled for the remainder of the term through appointment by the remaining officers, pending ratification by the membership at the next meeting.

=== Section 5 - General ===
The Board will determine the rules of its proceedings.

== Section VI ~ Duties of Officers ==

=== President ===

The President shall be responsible for the following:
* serve as the primary channel of communication with the Foundation and Member Sites.
* facilitate the appointment of committees and ensure that the goals and purposes of the Foundation are realized.
* have the power to pursue resources, pending ratification by the board of directors.

=== Vice-President ===
The Vice-President shall act in the capacity of the President in the President’s absence.

=== Secretary ===
The Secretary shall be responsible for the following:
* record attendance, take the minutes of all meetings, and maintain a file of meeting minutes for reference at future meetings.
* conduct necessary correspondence for the Foundation
* receive all petitions and notices from the general public and member sites to be discussed during the next meeting

=== Treasurer ===

The Treasurer shall be responsible for the following:
* collection, safekeeping, and disbursement of all funds and assets
* keep and maintain financial records of all financial transactions of the Foundation.
* keep records of all Member Site accounts.
* submit a financial accounting of the association’s transactions and financial status at the montly meeting and at other times when requested.
* assist any necessary documents for the IRS and the New Hampshire Attorney General related to the finances of the association.

== Article VII ~ Meetings ==

=== Section 1 - Frequency ===
Meetings of the Foundation shall be held monthly unless otherwise voted by the board of directors.

=== Section 2 - Quorum ===
Business can be conducted if a quorum is present. A quorum shall be defined as 2/3rds of officers with voting powers.

=== Section 3 - Special Meetings ===
Special meetings of the Foundation may be called at any time by the President or by two officers of the Foundation. Special meetings are meant for dealing with matters that can not wait until the general general meeting, and shall be limited to the specific topic that necessitated the meeting. Special meetings may be closed or open, as per Section 4 of this article.

=== Section 4 - Open/Closed Meetings ===
Meetings shall be open to the public unless voted otherwise by the Board of Directors. Closed meetings shall only be used to discuss confidential or sensitive information related to Foundation business, or when public disclosure is against the Foundations best interest. Meetings may be closed at any time by majority vote. Alternatively, a closed meeting may be scheduled in advance by the President, or two officers of the Foundation.

=== Section 5 - Location Of Meetings ===
Regular business meetings of the Foundation shall be conducted on IRC and be open to the general public. Such information shall be posted on the Foundation's web site, with the time, location, and access means for which the general public join. Closed meetings may be held in any venue considered secure for the contents of said meeting. Special meetings may be conducted in any matter that is practical given the subject matter.

=== Section 6 - Minutes ===
It shall be the duty of the Secretary to keep the minutes of all meetings. Should the Secretary be unavailable for a meeting, this duty shall pass to an officer selected by the President. Minutes for open (general or special) meetings shall published within ten (10) business days of the conclusion of that meeting. Closed meetings shall have minutes kept in the same matter, but dissemination shall be limited to the board of directors, and revelent parties.

=== Section 7 - Notification ===
Meeting dates shall be posted publicly, on the Foundation's web site, with at least ten (10) business days advance notice before the meeting date.

== Article VIII ~ Funds and Liability ==

=== Section 1 - Receivership of Funds ===
Funds received to the Foundation via a Member Site shall be divided as per the Member Site section of these bylaws. The Treasurer is responsible that funds are properly divided between the Foundation's account, and those of each Member Site.

=== Section 2 - Depositories ===
The Board of Directors shall determine what depositories shall be used by the Corporation as long as such depositories are located within the State of New Hampshire and are authorized to transact business by the State of New Hampshire and are federally insured. All checks and orders for the payment of money from said depository shall be signed such signatories as have been authorized and required in advance by the Board of Directors.

=== Section 3 - Records ===
Adequate records of accounts shall be maintained by the Treasurer. Records shall include (but not be limited to):
* Total Funds Received
* Balance of Member Site Accounts, and trusts
* Balance of Foundation Accounts
* Expected expenses (including recurring and one-time)

Such records shall be posted at the next meeting of the Foundation, and shall be available for public viewing.

=== Section 4 - Trust Funds ===
Should the Foundation's primary account be unable to cover costs and expenses, the Board of Directors may use money within Member Site's Trust Funds for the Foundation's operating expenses. The President shall notify all member sites in advance before Trust Funds are leveraged, with accounting how much shall be used, and for what reasons. The Treasurer shall transfer money within ten (10) business days from the notification.

=== Section 5 - Fiscal Year ===
The fiscal year shall be January 1 through December 31. The fiscal year may be changed by the Board of Directors without amending these bylaws.

== Article IX ~ Amendments ==

These bylaws may be amended, with ten (10) business days’ prior notice, at any meeting of the Foundation, by a 2/3rd's vote of the board of directors.

FAQ

2016-10-15T17:49:25Z

Sir Finkus: /* Why can't I log in here? (or on the main site?) */

=Frequently Asked Questions=

===What is this site about?===

This is a wiki for this project. If you'd like to learn more about the project, try the [http://soylentnews.org/about.pl about page] or the [http://soylentnews.org/faq.pl site FAQ].

====What's the purpose of the Wiki?====

Currently it provides a place for documentation about the project. Some examples:
*[[Development#Slashcode_Primer| A primer on Slashcode]]
*[[Development#Index_of_Development_Pages_and_Resources|Index of Development Pages and Resources]]
*[[CssWork]]
*The [[TeamPages]] | pages of the teams that work on this project
*The [[WhosWho]] | list of people involved

===How can I volunteer?===

If you are interested in volunteering, start in the '''[[SoylentNews#Get_Involved|Get Involved]]''' section.

===Where can I find information about wiki syntax used here?===

Try the [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Contents MediaWiki Help Docs]

===Can I comment on something here without modifying the page?===

Sure, just click the discussion link at the top of every page

===How can I sign my comments on discussion pages?===

Just type <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> after your comment.

===Why can't I log in here? (or on the main site?)===

The wiki and the main site are separate, you'll need to create an account on each individually. Due to spam, new accounts require manual administrator approval.

===Why can't I edit anymore?===

We've changed the wiki to only allow logged-in users to edit, you'll need to log in or create an account to make changes.

===I have more questions, what do I do?===

You could jump into [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]] and pester us until we answer you.

Board of Directors Meeting - September 30 2014

2016-10-11T21:39:21Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
[21:19] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ you want to chair? 
[21:19] <+matt__> k. 
[21:19] <+matt__> Issue 1: Officer nominations. 
[21:19] == Bytram|away has changed nick to Bytram 
[21:19] <@mrcoolbp> okay, what are our options for officers? 
[21:20] <+matt__> Assistant Treasurer was discussed at our last meeting, iirc 
[21:20] == matt_ [~4c76b3cf@Soylent/Staff/Management] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 
[21:20] <@mrcoolbp> lol 
[21:20] == matt__ has changed nick to matt_ 
[21:20] <+matt_> much better :) 
[21:20] <+matt_> I believe that Bytram wanted some time to consider the nomination. 
[21:20] == Strat_ [~d07e3056@208.126.ul.uq] has joined #staff 
[21:20] * Bytram was having comm issues, too. here. 
[21:21] <+Bytram> yes, and I appreciate having the opportunity to think it over. 
[21:21] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ I believe that's correct, bytram did you get to consider your nomination? 
[21:21] <@mrcoolbp> oh 
[21:21] <+Bytram> I am flattered to have been nominated. 
[21:21] <+Bytram> I have discusssed it with some people and at this time, must politely decline the invitation... 
[21:22] <@mrcoolbp> I understand 
[21:22] <+matt_> Bytram, understood :) 
[21:22] <+Bytram> however, I will gladly continue to assist in any way I can. 
[21:22] <@mrcoolbp> okay 
[21:22] <+NCommander> Did we have another nomination? 
[21:22] <@mrcoolbp> well, I'd like to have an odd number of members, so since I only have one other nomination, I'm not sure where that leaves us 
[21:23] <+matt_> are there any other nominations for officers? the main purpose would be to have someone to officially help mrcoolbp with any of the items on his large todo list. 
[21:23] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, keep in mind that officers need not be board members. 
[21:23] <@mrcoolbp> is @juggs around = ) 
[21:23] * mrcoolbp smiles sliley 
[21:24] <+Bytram> matt_: ISTR there are protections mentioned in the bylaws; do those apply equally for board members as well as officers? 
[21:24] <@paulej72> he was in soylent just a few minutes ago 
[21:24] <+matt_> Bytram, that is correct. Officers are indemnified for actions taken in good faith on behalf of the corporation. 
[21:25] <+Bytram> thanks... and the same/equal protections for board members? 
[21:25] <+NCommander> Bytram, corporate veil is the legal term to know here 
[21:25] <+matt_> Bytram, the indemnifications of the officers are detailed in the appropriate board action by which they are elected. 
[21:25] <+Bytram> thanks. 
[21:26] <@mrcoolbp> okay, well getting me an assistant is a secondary priority for me. Another thing we wanted to do eventually was expand the board to 5 memebers, I don't think we have an avenue to pursue that currently, let's defer this again to next meeting 
[21:26] * mrcoolbp moves to defer 
[21:26] <+NCommander> second 
[21:26] <+matt_> aye! 
[21:26] <@mrcoolbp> aye! 
[21:26] <+NCommander> neat 
[21:26] <+matt_> Issue 2: Follow-up on SoylentNews Policy Document - Updates: 
[21:26] <+matt_> Bytram, i believe that this was your issue? 
[21:27] * NCommander scanned and signed it! 
[21:27] <+Bytram> yes, thanks. 
[21:27] <@mrcoolbp> Okay, as per not having an assistant I haven't made any progress on this personally 
[21:27] <+Bytram> many thanks to crutchy for his suggestions and comments. 
[21:27] <@mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[21:27] <+Bytram> the main question I have at this point lies with copyright, 
[21:27] * juggs is here - sorry went afk for a few 
[21:27] <+Bytram> especially sith respect to stories. 
[21:27] <+Bytram> say user foo submits a story. 
[21:28] <+Bytram> the editor looks at it, likes it exactly as it is. 
[21:28] <+Bytram> editor pushes it to the main page. 
[21:28] <+Bytram> who owns the copyright? 
[21:28] <+NCommander> Honestly, I think the solution here is going forward, everything has to be put under a CC license 
[21:28] <+TheMightyBuzzard> the user. you can't transfer ownership of copyright, only assign rights. 
[21:29] <+NCommander> Probably CC BY-SA 
[21:29] <@mrcoolbp> yeah and put a disclaimer on the submission page 
[21:29] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, actually, yes you can */2 cents* 
[21:29] <@mrcoolbp> (juggs: no prob) 
[21:29] <+Bytram> the mental conflict I was facing was wrt the notice when a user submits a *comment* 
[21:29] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: this may be answered by issue #5 
[21:30] <@mrcoolbp> if you are worried about infringement 
[21:30] <@mrcoolbp> at least partially 
[21:30] <+Bytram> possibly... just two more quick things to finish the thought, if I may? 
[21:30] <+matt_> issue #5 is a good one. i do think that it would be good to have a clear statement of who owns the copyright to submissions if we don't have one already. 
[21:30] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[21:30] <+Bytram> comments: "The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. " 
[21:31] <+Bytram> and, wrt journal entries, I'm assuming those are also owned by the submitter; can probably use the same text as for comments. 
[21:31] <+Bytram> k, that's it. 
[21:31] <+NCommander> So, here is my 2 cents 
[21:31] <+NCommander> While having comments owned by who posted them is nice in theory, it does create future headaches 
[21:32] <+NCommander> For instance, if we ever wanted to release (pat of) the database freely, we don't own the copyright nor have a license to do so 
[21:32] <@mrcoolbp> interesting 
[21:32] <+matt_> NCommander, i wonder if that isn't somewhat intentional, as the poster may not have intended their comment to be so released... 
[21:32] <@mrcoolbp> . 
[21:33] <+Bytram> also, it provides some *protections* for us, should someone post something "troublesome" 
[21:33] <+NCommander> matt_, doesn't stop someone from scraping them out of the database 
[21:33] <+TheMightyBuzzard> should put some legalese in there stating that the user retains full rights but licenses us to use said comment in any form we see fit in the future. 
[21:33] <+NCommander> Pipedot already proved it was technically possible 
[21:33] <+Bytram> like the entirety of some copyrighted document. 
[21:33] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: excellent point. 
[21:33] <+NCommander> matt_, I rather put it to a community vote, and anything we do will *not* be retroactive 
[21:34] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
[21:34] <+matt_> sounds good. 
[21:34] <@mrcoolbp> okay, someone note that down 
[21:34] <+NCommander> If the database/content/etc. is CC, then the community has the means to fork in a way thats a *lot* cleaner than what we did w/ /. 
[21:34] <+TheMightyBuzzard> we need to mark the final comment under the old rules then and save that information 
[21:34] * NCommander looks at the chair 
[21:34] <@mrcoolbp> hah 
[21:34] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, not hard, we can do it at the CID< and allow users to retroactively release their old comments 
[21:34] <+Bytram> we would need some proper legalese... the submitter gives SOylentNews PBC, etc. a non-exclusive, worldwide, license to publish blah blah blah 
[21:35] <+NCommander> Bytram, wikimedia has a pretty sane form for that 
[21:35] <+NCommander> Since they release everything CC BY-SA 
[21:35] <@mrcoolbp> yeah that should do it then 
[21:35] <+Bytram> I' 
[21:35] <+Bytram> I'm not a legal beagle, but want to make sure we get the right wording when we do decide to go live with it. 
[21:35] <+matt_> NCommander, do you want to run a story on the site suggesting the change and see how many pitchforks come out? 
[21:36] * NCommander shivers 
[21:36] * mrcoolbp grabs blanket 
[21:36] <+NCommander> I do think we've released the idea before witout the community ripping our heads off 
[21:36] <+Bytram> there's also the matter of the copyright notice for the wiki and twiki. 
[21:36] <+NCommander> Bytram, wiki I think is CC BY-SA already 
[21:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i do have one thing to add here before we move on. we need to register a DMCA agent soonest or we get very few protections as a service provider. 
[21:37] <+NCommander> Bytram, yup: Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike unless otherwise noted. 
[21:37] <+Bytram> yes, agreed. but I'm unsure whether that was by *intention* or by default. 
[21:37] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that too 
[21:37] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: that's issue #5 
[21:37] <+matt_> TMB, that's issue#5 ;) 
[21:37] <@mrcoolbp> haha ninja-ed 
[21:37] <+matt_> hah! 
[21:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> teach me to read first 
[21:37] <+NCommander> Bytram, intentional default? Lets us use the stuff on it freely 
[21:38] <+Bytram> and, if someone comes at us for a copyright violatio0n bcause someone posted a violating item on there, are we protected? 
[21:38] <+Bytram> that leads to the need for a DMCA notice, too. 
[21:38] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram, yup #5 
[21:38] <+matt_> Bytram, you had a number of sub-items for issue #2. would you like to discuss any others? 
[21:38] <+Bytram> btw, I can't seem to put my hand to the agenda list; could someone pls post the link here? 
[21:38] <+matt_> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting 
[21:38] <+Bytram> matt_: thank you! 
[21:39] <+Bytram> matt_: looking/thinking 
[21:40] <@mrcoolbp> I think the plan was for me to go through this, tighten up a few screws, and send to staff for review, I have not done that yet 
[21:40] <+Bytram> have a mental block right now; I decline for the moment, but please ask again at the end. 
[21:40] <+Bytram> on second thought 
[21:41] <+Bytram> I have the genral areas roughed out where I see the need for certain items to be stated on the site. 
[21:41] <+Bytram> But, I lack the legal knowledge on how to phrase things, as well as full knowledge of what we actually *want* 
[21:41] <+Bytram> those are the stumbling blocks for me on Issues 2* 
[21:42] <+NCommander> Feel free to poke my brain for legal wording crap 
[21:42] <+Bytram> thanks! 
[21:42] <+Bytram> that leaves what do we WANT in the way of protections. 
[21:42] == mythterj [mythterj@txl.ORG] has joined #staff 
[21:42] <+Bytram> I'd rather not tie up a board meeting with the minutia 
[21:43] <+Bytram> maybe, send out an e-mail to board? staff? with each section in turn, and solicit feedback? 
[21:43] <@mrcoolbp> bytram, that was my plan 
[21:43] <+Bytram> I'm open to suggestions at this point; I just saw a need and wanted to get the ball rolling. 
[21:44] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: you've done some great work there, I just need an hour or two to give it a thourough read-through and I haven't gotten to it 
[21:44] <@mrcoolbp> my apologies everyone 
[21:44] <+matt_> TODO: mrcoolbp, review site policy document and send out to staff when ready. 
[21:44] <+matt_> shall we move on? 
[21:45] <@mrcoolbp> I think so 
[21:45] <@mrcoolbp> I don't think we can finish this now 
[21:45] <+matt_> Issue 3: We should buy quickbooks for accounting (and abandon GNU cash as this was always meant to be an interim measure) 
[21:45] <@mrcoolbp> I vote yes 
[21:45] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: we're a group of volunteers and sometimes the world does not permit the priorities we'd like to give the site; I understand! 
[21:45] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, any idea how much this would cost? 
[21:45] <@mrcoolbp> $150 I think 
[21:45] <+Bytram> I've not loked into it, lately, but ISTR there are 
[21:46] <+Bytram> additional "modules" that might cost extra 
[21:46] * Bytram has no idea if we'd need them, or the cost. 
[21:46] <+matt_> sounds reasonable to me (and a very good idea to get this done before year's end) 
[21:46] <+Blackmoore> Sadly i will also agree. Quickbooks is most likely something an accountant will want us to have 
[21:46] <+Bytram> is there anyone here who has used quickbooks before? 
[21:46] <+NCommander> matt_, ACK 
[21:46] <+NCommander> We've got money 
[21:46] <+NCommander> lets spend it 
[21:46] <+TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, yes but not in the past ten years. 
[21:46] <+NCommander> :-) 
[21:46] <@mrcoolbp> lol 
[21:46] <+matt_> Bytram, i have. it takes some getting used to. 
[21:47] <+NCommander> I've used Quicken, which uses a fair number of the same UI stuff 
[21:47] <+NCommander> and I know how to do accounting 
[21:47] <+Blackmoore> I did some back in prehisotic times 
[21:47] <+Bytram> great! 
[21:47] <+matt_> All those in favor of mrcoolbp buying a copy of quickbooks: 
[21:47] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[21:47] <+matt_> Aye! 
[21:47] <+NCommander> ^- what they said 
[21:47] <+matt_> Resolved! 
[21:47] <@mrcoolbp> yay 
[21:47] <+matt_> Issue 4: How much copyright content may be legally reproduced in a story summary? Some summaries contain copypasta of copyright material from commercial news sites. Do we need a scripty to scan and flag any summary, comment, journal or wiki article that reproduces more than a certain percentage of linked content? Something like MIN(10%,100 words) seems pretty safe. There could be a whitelist of sites (such as Wikipedia) that could be excluded from scanning. This is possibly not a board-level issue but I'm n 
[21:47] <+matt_> etc. :) 
[21:47] <+NCommander> Oh boy 
[21:48] <+NCommander> So, disclaimer on this one 
[21:48] <+NCommander> We're a US corporation, US Fair Use laws apply 
[21:48] <+NCommander> Please remember that during this discussion 
[21:48] <+NCommander> kthxbye 
[21:48] <+matt_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use 
[21:48] <+TheMightyBuzzard> Means, being a news organization, basically anything necessary for us to properly tell a story is fair game. 
[21:48] <+NCommander> matt_, note, fair use in the US is different than the rest of the world. 
[21:49] <+matt_> as usual, that wikipedia page is very U.S.-centric :) 
[21:49] <@paulej72> /. has the same types of stories as we do and it has not been an issue there 
[21:49] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: seems to hinge on the word *necessary* 
[21:49] <+Bytram> paulej72: that we know of. 
[21:49] * mrcoolbp notes Quickbooks is actually $249.95 
[21:49] <@mrcoolbp> = ( 
[21:49] <+Bytram> besides that run-in they had with the c of scientolgy 
[21:49] <+Bytram> and ISTR there was a problem with msft 
[21:49] <+TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod. good rule of thumb is try not to copy an entire article unless it's only two paragraphs. 
[21:50] <+matt_> in a nutshell, courts decide fair-use on a case-by-case basis :/ 
[21:50] <+matt_> TMB, agreed. 
[21:50] <+Bytram> and it coests quite a bit to get their opinion 
[21:50] <+Bytram> best to not get to that point 
[21:50] <+Bytram> one thing 
[21:50] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, the fuck O_o; 
[21:50] <+TheMightyBuzzard> well, we are a public corporation. eventually we WILL be sued. 
[21:50] <+NCommander> Er 
[21:50] <+NCommander> **** 
[21:51] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you want to re-vote that = ) 
[21:51] <+Bytram> it's also important, I would think, to try and clearly note the source when we ARE copying something verbatim 
[21:51] <+matt_> TMB, technically, we are a private corporation :) 
[21:51] <+TheMightyBuzzard> public in the sense of interacting... rather than what matt_ ninja'd me on 
[21:51] <@mrcoolbp> public-facing 
[21:51] <+TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, them 
[21:51] <+Bytram> ^^^ 
[21:51] <+NCommander> Honestly, as long as we're not copy and pasting large swatches of articles 
[21:51] <+NCommander> i.e., it doesn't look like one of my posts 
[21:52] <+NCommander> We should be fine 
[21:52] <@mrcoolbp> heh 
[21:52] <+NCommander> ANd if someone's legal department comes knocking, THEN we cross that bridge 
[21:52] <+TheMightyBuzzard> we can even use, dum dum dum, pictures if we like. 
[21:52] <@mrcoolbp> sure, the goal is to have a lawyer if we need it 
[21:52] <+matt_> NCommander, are you ok with the new quickbooks price that mrcoolbp mentioned above? 
[21:52] <@mrcoolbp> or money for a lawyer 
[21:52] <@mrcoolbp> $249.95 
[21:52] <@mrcoolbp> quickbooks ^ 
[21:53] <+Bytram> plus s/h, tax, etc.? 
[21:53] <+NCommander> matt_, it sucks, but yeah 
[21:53] <+NCommander> I don't think we're getting around that 
[21:53] <+Bytram> I propose that we 
[21:53] <+Bytram> authorize mrcoolbp obtain a copy with a total cost not to exceed, say, $300 
[21:53] <@mrcoolbp> all in favor of ^ 
[21:53] <+Bytram> anything more than that would require separate approval, and 
[21:54] <+Bytram> of course, if he can get a better price, go for it. 
[21:54] <+matt_> Aye! 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[21:54] <+Blackmoore> Aye 
[21:54] <+NCommander> Aye 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> I'll look around a bit 
[21:54] <+matt_> Resolved: mrcoolbp is authorized to buy quickbooks up to a maximum of $300. 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so we are still on #4 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> right? 
[21:54] * NCommander has a note to attach to Quickbooks 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> oh 
[21:54] <+NCommander> It should be licensed to the corp, and not mrcoolbp himself 
[21:54] <+NCommander> So we can move the seat around as needed 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> absolutely 
[21:55] <+matt_> correct. 
[21:55] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[21:55] <+NCommander> Just wanted to make that clear :) 
[21:55] <+Blackmoore> Aye 
[21:55] <@mrcoolbp> thanks 
[21:55] <@mrcoolbp> (Blackmoore: you don't have to vote = ) 
[21:55] <+matt_> getting back to issue #4: 
[21:55] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^ 
[21:56] <+Bytram> though I like the *idea* of an automated system for discerning the amount of duplication... 
[21:56] <+matt_> is the consensus that we allow the editors to use their discretion up until the point that we receive a complaint from a copyright-holder? 
[21:56] <+matt_> ...and then reassess? 
[21:56] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[21:56] <+Bytram> coding it is non-trivial 
[21:56] <+NCommander> THere's not way to code something like that 
[21:56] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i suggest a policy of best judgment and run anything questionable by laminatorx 
[21:56] <+NCommander> Or more specifically 
[21:56] <+NCommander> If I could code something like that, I'd be really rich 
[21:56] <+Bytram> ^^^ 
[21:56] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard++ 
[21:57] <+NCommander> In the entirity of /.'s history, I think they only ever had issues when people commented and posting the test of Scienologies OT3 
[21:57] <+NCommander> *text 
[21:57] <+Bytram> NCommander: I remember that one, but ISTR there was an issue with msft, too. 
[21:57] <+Bytram> but, I cannot at all recall the specifics 
[21:57] <+NCommander> Bytram, regardless, /. been around 20 something years, and never been stuck in a major legal battle on this front that we're aware of 
[21:58] <+Bytram> yes, that we are aware of. 
[21:58] <+Bytram> wait a sec 
[21:58] <+Bytram> I take that back 
[21:58] <+Bytram> I *DO* recall cmdrtaco mentioning on a couple of occasions mentioning 
[21:58] <+Bytram> having to do battle with lawyers 
[21:58] <+NCommander> Which is why we are raisng money to have a lawyer available if we need it 
[21:59] <+Bytram> to keep the site as open and freeeflowing as it was. 
[21:59] <+NCommander> But I'm not going to go absolute bonkers until we get there 
[21:59] <+matt_> this discussion is actually related to issue #5: 
[21:59] <+Bytram> I have not problem with having a lawyer,just making sure we are all coming from the same place. 
[21:59] <+matt_> Issue 5: We need a Service Provider Designation of Agent to Receive Notification of Claims of Infringement in order to shelter us from legal action in the event of a DMCA notice (see: [[1]] and [[2]]) 
[21:59] <@mrcoolbp> probably end up being me, ug. 
[21:59] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[22:00] <+TheMightyBuzzard> could be laminatorx if you really don't want it. 
[22:00] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, if you want, i can volunteer for this one. 
[22:00] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ that would be fine by me sir. 
[22:00] <@mrcoolbp> not going to volunteer LamX 
[22:00] <+Bytram> my sense is that matt_ has a better handle on the legal consequences and ramifications of any response we might make. 
[22:01] <@mrcoolbp> matt_: have you read the attached links? Your contact will be posted publicly 
[22:01] <+matt_> so, basically, we just send in a form to the US Copyright Office designating the official point of contact for takedown notices... 
[22:01] <@mrcoolbp> and like $40 bucks or something I think 
[22:01] * Bytram nominates Bender 
[22:01] * mrcoolbp can't remember 
[22:01] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, well, considering that the corporation's address is my address, i don't think i have much left to hide :) 
[22:01] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ tru, so yah, send in the form, small fee, and list contact info 
[22:02] <+matt_> mrcolbp, it's approximately $105 + $35 
[22:02] <@mrcoolbp> oh, 
[22:02] <+NCommander> Honestly, can't we put the address as our RA? 
[22:02] <+NCommander> Or failing that, matt_'s? 
[22:02] <+NCommander> His is public anyway due to it being on the articles of incorporation 
[22:02] <+matt_> ^^ 
[22:02] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: the address might be able to be our RA 
[22:02] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, they would just forward it to me anyway ;) 
[22:03] <+Bytram> RA == Resident Agent? 
[22:03] <+matt_> registered agent 
[22:03] <@mrcoolbp> aye 
[22:03] <@mrcoolbp> er that 
[22:03] <+Bytram> ah. thanks! 
[22:03] <@mrcoolbp> anyway, matt_ that would be great if you could volunteer, seems to make sense as to your last point 
[22:03] <@mrcoolbp> as for # 4, I think we will have a better idea after we get #2 wrapped up 
[22:04] <+matt_> All in favor of matt_ registering as our DMCA Agent? 
[22:04] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[22:04] <+matt_> Aye! 
[22:04] <+NCommander> Aye 
[22:04] <+matt_> Resolved! 
[22:04] <@mrcoolbp> sweet 
[22:05] <+matt_> TODO: matt_, register as DMCA Agent 
[22:06] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so I think we'll need to revisit everything else, do we have anything further matt_ ? 
[22:06] <+matt_> so, that brings us to the end of the wiki agenda. i had two outstanding issues from the last meeting. 
[22:06] <@mrcoolbp> please 
[22:06] <+matt_> 1. getting mrcoolbp access to the BoA account. 
[22:06] <@mrcoolbp> would require us paying more 
[22:06] <@mrcoolbp> or sharing a loging 
[22:06] <@mrcoolbp> login 
[22:06] <+NCommander> We could have gone with Wells Fargo :-P 
[22:06] <+NCommander> *ducks* 
[22:07] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: how much "more" are we talking about here? 
[22:07] <+NCommander> Oh, on that note 
[22:07] <+TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i gave up liking them when they quit running stage coaches 
[22:07] <+NCommander> I will be able to get validated at a BOA in November 
[22:07] <+matt_> Bytram, $15/month or a higher average balance to avoid the fee. 
[22:07] <+matt_> NCommander, nice! 
[22:07] <+NCommander> ... I think we can approve $15/month :-P 
[22:07] <+Bytram> matt_: thanks. at this point, that's a not-insignificant chunk of change 
[22:08] <+matt_> NCommander, do you think that a shared login would be ok for now. 
[22:08] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'm hesistant to add more monthlies, one-timers is something else, 
[22:08] <+matt_> our banking transactions are all very traceable... 
[22:08] <+NCommander> matt_, as long as it doesn't violate some BOA thingy 
[22:08] <@mrcoolbp> hrm 
[22:08] <+matt_> none that i'm aware of. 
[22:08] <+NCommander> I rather not get our account locked up 
[22:08] <+NCommander> Then we can share an account 
[22:08] <+Bytram> perhaps with a caveat? 
[22:09] <+Bytram> only one person is authorized to perform transactions? the other can review? 
[22:09] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: I have a card for transactions, I would only use to view account 
[22:09] <@mrcoolbp> if else, I'll check here or pester matt to do so 
[22:09] <+matt_> k. mrcoolbp, shall we coordinate this between ourselves? 
[22:09] <+Bytram> that allows access, for both, but retains a trail of who did what, even though two people would technically have benn able to do something with the login 
[22:09] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ yes 
[22:10] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: agreed, nicely said 
[22:10] <+Bytram> thanks 
[22:10] <+matt_> item 2: take necessary steps to get wildcard cert. 
[22:10] <@mrcoolbp> ah yes 
[22:10] <+Bytram> umm, what was the decision on 1? 
[22:10] <@mrcoolbp> bytram, we deffered 
[22:11] <+matt_> Bytram, that we would share a login for now, and that mrcoolbp and I would coordinate this. 
[22:11] <+Bytram> okay, tahnks. 
[22:11] <@mrcoolbp> oh wait, you mean that ^ 
[22:11] <+Bytram> and, at this point, only matt_ is authorized to perform transactions with the login? 
[22:11] <+NCommander> (brb, 2 minutes) 
[22:11] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[22:12] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: k 
[22:12] <+matt_> Bytram, both mrcoolbp and i are signers on the account, so we can both perform transactions. 
[22:12] <@mrcoolbp> (with cards) 
[22:12] <+matt_> we both have debit cards. 
[22:12] <+Bytram> but mrcoolbp can still use the debit card, as necessary/authorized. 
[22:12] <@mrcoolbp> yup 
[22:12] <+Bytram> okay, thanks! 
[22:12] <@mrcoolbp> matt, Bytram meant through the login 
[22:12] <+matt_> ah. 
[22:12] <+Bytram> ^^^ 
[22:13] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ so the idea is you want to try to migrate the whois right? 
[22:13] <+matt_> so, to recap the plan from our last meeting: 
[22:13] <+Bytram> btw, it been almost an hour in; any thoughts of a "bio break" for, say five minutes? 
[22:13] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: go 
[22:14] <+Bytram> k, back soon. 
[22:14] <+matt_> basically, as a temporary solution, we can _authorize_ SoylentNews PBC to apply for and obtain certificates for the domains, even without a transfer. 
[22:14] == Blackmoore has changed nick to blackmoore|afk 
[22:14] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[22:14] * NCommander is back 
[22:15] <+matt_> to do this, we just need me to write a letter to NC authorizing it, which i can do by this weekend. 
[22:16] <+NCommander> matt_, I think so? 
[22:16] <+NCommander> Ugh, we'd probably have to deal with the register and see what they want 
[22:16] <+NCommander> WHich is irritating as **** 
[22:16] <+matt_> although not strictly necessary, i do think that it would be a good idea to change the whois, simply because having it as "Peter Walsh" is not good... 
[22:16] <+TheMightyBuzzard> sounds too easy for something that's been a sticking point this long. how can we further complicate it so it takes another month? 
[22:16] <+NCommander> I'll finish the OV sometime this week 
[22:16] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I'll fire myself into the sun 
[22:17] <+Bytram> back 
[22:17] <+matt_> NCommander, I propose that we list you as the "Administrative Contact" for the domains, which, combined with my letter, should be all the CA could reasonably require. 
[22:18] <+NCommander> Sorry, I had an internet failure 
[22:18] <+NCommander> matt_, that should work 
[22:18] <+Bytram> sonds good to me. 
[22:18] <@mrcoolbp> ack 
[22:18] <+Bytram> s/sonds/sounds/ 
[22:18] <+matt_> if it doesn't we can just try something else :) 
[22:18] <@paulej72> speeking of the domains, can we set *.soylennews.com to point to soylentnews.org 
[22:18] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^ 
[22:18] <+Bytram> ^^^ 
[22:18] <+matt_> ^^^ 
[22:18] <+Bytram> we had a user comment to that effect. 
[22:19] <+NCommander> I think we own that domain 
[22:19] <+NCommander> So yeah 
[22:19] <@paulej72> matt has the access to that 
[22:19] <+Bytram> well, it does have the same Peter Walsh 
[22:19] <+matt_> the zone file is on linode, right? 
[22:19] <+matt_> or is it using the gandi zone file? 
[22:20] <@mrcoolbp> linode 
[22:20] <@paulej72> only for .org 
[22:20] * mrcoolbp thinks 
[22:20] <@paulej72> .com must be on gandi 
[22:20] <+matt_> ok, we should be able to fix that. 
[22:20] <@mrcoolbp> hmm 
[22:21] <+Bytram> paulej72: it is... 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Connecting to COM.whois-servers.net... 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Connecting to whois.gandi.net... 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Domain ID: 1845913633_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.gandi.net 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar URL: http://www.gandi.net 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Updated Date: 2014-03-10T20:23:57Z 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Creation Date: 2014-02-09T01:50:26Z 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2015-02-09T01:50:26Z 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar: GANDI SAS 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar IANA ID: 81 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@support.gandi.net 
[22:21] <+Bytram> Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +33.170377661 
[22:21] <+NCommander> eek 
[22:21] <+NCommander> Use a pastebin 
[22:21] <+Bytram> sry. 
[22:21] <@mrcoolbp> lol 
[22:21] <+matt_> this was the last item that i had for the board meeting, so if there are no other items, we could adjourn and get to fixing that 
[22:21] <+Bytram> matt_: I've got two thinkgs 
[22:21] <@mrcoolbp> I"m good with that 
[22:21] <@mrcoolbp> oh 
[22:22] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram you have the floore 
[22:22] <+Bytram> thanks 
[22:22] <+Bytram> 1.) we have users who are in a positon to provide addiotnal funding, but no way to provide it to us easily 
[22:22] <@mrcoolbp> they can buy additional years 
[22:22] <+Bytram> is there a reason why wee could not, say, let someone pay for our hosting for one month? 
[22:22] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[22:23] <@mrcoolbp> bytram: they can just buy 20 years subscription 
[22:23] <+Bytram> and add something on the homepage saying "Hosting for this month provided by: foo" 
[22:23] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ I'm not sure on this ^ 
[22:23] <+TheMightyBuzzard> That we could actually do. Call it selling a vanity space on the site. 
[22:23] <+Bytram> so, it's not a "donation" so no legal problems, there. and they are getting something for the payment. 
[22:23] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[22:24] <+Bytram> if someone wants to pay for the whole year, well, smile! 
[22:24] <+matt_> Bytram, indeed. it would be a form of advertisement. 
[22:24] <+Bytram> ding ding ding 
[22:24] <@juggs> that sounds good if the legalities allow 
[22:24] <@mrcoolbp> ^ 
[22:24] <+matt_> i doubt that the community would object (don't quote me on that :) 
[22:24] <+Bytram> juggs: that was my main concern, but I can't hitnk of any legal holes in it. 
[22:24] * mrcoolbp quotes you on that 
[22:24] <+Bytram> !grab matt_ 
[22:25] <+TheMightyBuzzard> oh some of them would object to being given $20 but mostly not 
[22:25] <@paulej72> we can put a meesage in the footer 
[22:25] <@juggs> Bytram, me either, I'm hardly concious of UK corp regs let alone US stuff 
[22:25] <+matt_> would we be ok with the front page saying: "This month's hosting brought to you by: Microsoft Corporation"? 
[22:25] <@mrcoolbp> uh, not if it's at the bottom 
[22:25] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[22:26] <+Bytram> make it a new option on the user settings page to show/hide the "advert" 
[22:26] <@mrcoolbp> hah 
[22:26] <+NCommander> I want to make sure we're not skirting stuff on donations 
[22:26] <+NCommander> */2 cents* 
[22:26] <@juggs> premium price for above the fold info box, less for a footer :D 
[22:26] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah that's a big "if" 
[22:26] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, we are but only in the way that thousands of other companies have already paved the way for. 
[22:26] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: but if it's billed as Ads, then, meh, right? 
[22:26] <+Bytram> from what I've seen so far, if we rely solely on donations, we're not going to last the year. 
[22:27] <@mrcoolbp> bytram: actually, if we keep at the pace we are going, we'll be fine 
[22:27] <@mrcoolbp> bytram, our goal includes a lot of one-time startup stuff 
[22:27] <+Bytram> and, as to the question as to whether I'd object to a notice saying "brought to you by MS", I'd really not mind. 
[22:27] <@mrcoolbp> bytram: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Finances 
[22:27] <@mrcoolbp> $3,600 for server hosting for one year 
[22:28] <@mrcoolbp> we are at $2,040 right now 
[22:28] <+Bytram> yes, but if someone comes up with the funding for the hosting, that frees up money for lawyers, etc. 
[22:28] <@mrcoolbp> absolutely 
[22:28] <+matt_> we should be clear in the policy doc. about our stance on editorial independence (i.e., independence from advertisers' influence) 
[22:28] <+Bytram> matt_++ yes, indeed. 
[22:29] <@mrcoolbp> someone note that please 
[22:29] <+matt_> Bytram, until you start seeing a lot of pro-MS stories being posted :) 
[22:29] <+Bytram> meh 
[22:29] * Bytram is an editor. =) 
[22:29] <+TheMightyBuzzard> helps that our editors aren't paid. hard to corrupt someone until you pay them. 
[22:29] * Bytram unchecks the [ ] display check box 
[22:30] <+Bytram> what MS stories? 
[22:30] <+Bytram> =) 
[22:30] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: what was item #2? 
[22:30] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: exactly. 
[22:30] <+Bytram> yeah, hodl on 
[22:30] <@mrcoolbp> we are running later than matt_ was hopoing 
[22:30] * Bytram is trying to remember 
[22:30] * matt_ slaps himself awake 
[22:31] <+Bytram> oh, the policy doc says that board meetings are listed in the "Site News" box at least a week in advance of the meeting. 
[22:31] * NCommander injects matt_ with coffee 
[22:31] <+Bytram> just want to make sure, when we come up with the next meeting date/time 
[22:31] <+Bytram> that we update that. 
[22:31] <+Bytram> that's it. 
[22:31] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, I've got 10000 Phillipian Pesos ready to bride the editoral team 
[22:31] <+NCommander> and a few million dong if more motivation is required 
[22:32] <@mrcoolbp> bytram: I thought we were doing that, I even changed everything (I think) when I had to push it forward due to issues outside my control) 
[22:32] <+TheMightyBuzzard> so, you could probably buy laminatorx a beer then? 
[22:32] <+Bytram> no comment 
[22:32] <+Bytram> I didn't see the notice appear until a couple days ago. 
[22:32] <+matt_> TheMightyBuzzard, how goes the work on accepting bitcoin? 
[22:32] <@mrcoolbp> ^& 
[22:32] <+Bytram> anyway that was the 2nd point./ 
[22:32] <+TheMightyBuzzard> matt_, it's ready for the 14.10 rollout as of today. 
[22:32] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: got it, thanks 
[22:32] <+matt_> nice! 
[22:32] <@mrcoolbp> yay! 
[22:32] <+Bytram> np 
[22:33] <+TheMightyBuzzard> tested it with live bitcoin on dev today, NCommander is now a sub on dev until 2017 
[22:33] <+NCommander> I am? 
[22:33] <+NCommander> Neat. 
[22:33] <@paulej72> the question you should now have is when will 14.10 be ready :) 
[22:33] <+Bytram> paulej72: when will 14.10 be ready? 
[22:33] * NCommander defers that to paulej72 since I haven't managed to do any dev work this cycle 
[22:33] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ can you check BoA to see if there are some new $0.01 transacs ? 
[22:33] <+matt_> checking... 
[22:34] <@paulej72> depends what we want to add to it? 
[22:34] <+TheMightyBuzzard> technically we could roll it out any time we like but it's going to be kind of thin right now. 
[22:34] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: there's nothing wrong with having a "thin" update; all the better to isolate problems when a bigger one comes along 
[22:34] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, none yet. 
[22:34] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, kinda thin? 
[22:34] <@mrcoolbp> = / 
[22:34] <+NCommander> Honestly, I don't mind if its a thin update 
[22:35] <+NCommander> 14.08 was very late, and was a big update 
[22:35] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, last transaction: $209.52 transfer from paypal on 9/30. 
[22:35] <@mrcoolbp> k 
[22:35] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ current balance? 
[22:35] <+Bytram> what is ready to go out in 14.10? I ask as I've been tied up with outside stuff a bit and haven't done much QA work. 
[22:35] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i'd like to get like two or three more issues cleared first. call it a 14.10.08 instead of 14.10.01. 
[22:35] <+TheMightyBuzzard> but that's entirely up to you and pj 
[22:35] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, $1969.61 
[22:35] <@mrcoolbp> k 
[22:35] <+NCommander> Bytram, honestly, I think the only thing going in is bitpay support 
[22:36] <+NCommander> whcih will give us money, which is a valid reason to release an update :-) 
[22:36] <+TheMightyBuzzard> some bug fixes but mostly yeah 
[22:36] <+Bytram> agreed on getting money being a good enough reason. 
[22:36] * TheMightyBuzzard shrugs 
[22:36] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I've got a couple minor bugs to report that could go in, too. 
[22:36] <+TheMightyBuzzard> .01 it is then 
[22:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> or as near as is feasible. 
[22:37] <+Bytram> mostly typos/capitalization etc. 
[22:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, catch me in the morning. i likely wouldn't remember now even with a sticky note on my forehead. 
[22:37] <+Bytram> same as in the past, roll it out on the weekend when things are quieter? 
[22:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> probably. pj? 
[22:38] <@paulej72> yes weekend 
[22:38] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: there are 4 1-cent transacs in bitpay, nothing in the account yet 
[22:38] <+Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: /me has an early morning at work; would prolly be thurs am sometime 
[22:39] <+matt_> ok, any other business for the board meeting? 
[22:39] <+TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, they won't do a transfer of less than $20 
[22:39] <@mrcoolbp> ah 
[22:39] <+TheMightyBuzzard> which works out really nice with our price point 
[22:39] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[22:39] <@mrcoolbp> okay, well I think we can adjourn now, though I'm not sure matt has time for the whois migration 
[22:39] <+NCommander> I'm not up to it 
[22:40] <+NCommander> Sorry 
[22:40] <+NCommander> matt_, I can send you my information for it 
[22:40] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: just setup a time you can be online when he does it 
[22:40] <+matt_> well, i won't be able to get that letter together until the weekend, so perhaps we should get it all taken care of then? 
[22:40] <@mrcoolbp> just in case 
[22:40] <+matt_> NCommander, will you be around this weekend? 
[22:41] <+NCommander> ++ 
[22:41] <+NCommander> I can try and get OV done by then 
[22:41] <+Bytram> hmmm, an idea... 
[22:41] <+Bytram> subscription is currently $20/year 
[22:41] <+Bytram> what if we announced that there was an increase coming in one month where it goes up to $25/year? 
[22:41] <+Bytram> that would pull some in quicker from those who have been procrastinating? 
[22:41] <+Bytram> no prob. thought I'd mention it. 
[22:41] <+NCommander> (organization verification) 
[22:41] <+Bytram> that's all I've got. 
[22:41] <+Bytram> if we can decide the date/time of the next meeting within 5 minutes, we'll have finished the meeting in 90 minutes. 
[22:41] <@mrcoolbp> lol 
[22:42] <@mrcoolbp> let's go with 2 weeks from today, 6 or 7pm ? 
[22:42] <@mrcoolbp> Oct 14 
[22:42] <+matt_> either time is fine for me. 
[22:43] <+NCommander> matt_, possibly 
[22:43] <+NCommander> matt_, discuss in private 
[22:43] <+matt_> k. 
[22:44] <+NCommander> matt_, if you could join #chillax :-) 
[22:44] * mrcoolbp moves to adjourn 
[22:44] <+matt_> seconds 
[22:44] * NCommander thirds 
[22:44] <+matt_> All in favour of adjourning? 
[22:44] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[22:44] <+matt_> Aye!

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - September 3 2014

2016-10-11T21:38:50Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
[19:07] <+mrcoolbp> .topic SoylentNews PBC Board Meeting 
[19:07] == juggler changed the topic of #staff to: SoylentNews PBC Board Meeting 
[19:07] <+mrcoolbp> .topic SoylentNews PBC Board Meeting 
[19:07] <+mrcoolbp> oopas 
[19:08] <+mrcoolbp> okay, Bytram: you are chairing this one? 
[19:08] <+Bytram> if you want, sure. 
[19:08] <+mrcoolbp> matt_: is that kosher? 
[19:08] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, well, afaik, we haven't yet signed the docs for the bylaws amendment yet :(, so this is still an action w/o a meeting... 
[19:09] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, so yes, kosher, since it's a bit less formal than a formal meeting :) 
[19:09] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ so we have to print/sign/send to you? 
[19:09] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, or you could print, sign, scan in and send. or even just print as a pdf, attach your signature as an image, and send. 
[19:10] <+matt_> send == email 
[19:10] <+NCommander> Shit 
[19:10] <+NCommander> I completely forgot 
[19:10] <+mrcoolbp> okay, I'll try to get that done, sorry 
[19:10] <+mrcoolbp> s/done/done soon/ 
[19:10] * NCommander has been having things constrain the amount of time and effort I can put into SN 
[19:10] <+mrcoolbp> same 
[19:10] <+Bytram> same 
[19:11] <+Bytram> so we have quorum, as all board members are in attendance. 
[19:11] * Bytram loads wiki page 
[19:11] <+Bytram> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting#Issues 
[19:11] <+Bytram> topic to be discussed: "Issue 1:We made some money (yay!) what do we do with it? (e.g. Pay bills, make payment to benefactors, advertise, mixture of all three?) " 
[19:11] <+Bytram> the floor is open for discussion 
[19:12] <+mrcoolbp> matt_: anything show up in the account? 
[19:12] <+matt_> fyi, our BoA checking account balance is $1,227.73 :) 
[19:12] <+mrcoolbp> as expected, nice 
[19:12] <+matt_> it looks like it takes a couple of days for things to make it from paypal to BoA. 
[19:12] <+matt_> according to paypal, we had 60 people sign up for subscriptions. 
[19:12] <+Bytram> matt_: any reports on how much we have raised from subscriptions and swag? 
[19:12] <+Bytram> lol 
[19:12] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ yes, I called them and squared away that we have our "ducks in a row" with them, they lifted the monthly withdral limit 
[19:12] <+matt_> a couple of people have signed up for more than one (they show up as $40 in paypal) 
[19:13] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp++ thank you! 
[19:13] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: that's all from Subs 
[19:13] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[19:13] <+NCommander> Very very nice 
[19:13] <+Bytram> that's a nice start. 
[19:13] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ I didn't notice, maybe they bought more than one year 
[19:13] <+Bytram> very nice indeed. 
[19:13] <+NCommander> Do wish the rate kept going, but yeah 
[19:13] <+mrcoolbp> oh wait, I know at least someone bought a gift for someone else... 
[19:13] * Bytram needs to get a pre-paid cash card so he can participate 
[19:14] <+mrcoolbp> okay, well the item was "So what do we do with what we "earned" ? 
[19:14] <+Bytram> how's the swag store been doing? 
[19:14] <+matt_> one thing we could do now is start paying ongoing expenses from the checking account. 
[19:14] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: kind of a fizzle, less than $100 to date, and we won't see that for 30 days 
[19:14] <+Bytram> :( 
[19:14] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ yes we could, but that's about 3 months worth of server costs 
[19:14] * Bytram is trying to find out how much we earned and how much more to anticipate. 
[19:14] <+matt_> well, somebody has to pay them :) 
[19:15] <+NCommander> I think we need to figure out how to get the server bill much much lower 
[19:15] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: how do we stand with linode? 
[19:15] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, bill paid for September 
[19:15] <+mrcoolbp> that would be good 
[19:15] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: copy that 
[19:15] <+NCommander> I think we need to re-evaluate our hosting needs, figure out where to cut costs, and see if we can get the bill down to $200-ish 
[19:15] <+Bytram> what bills do we have coming up in, say, the next few months through year end? 
[19:15] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: send me an "invoice" or receipt for september please 
[19:16] <+NCommander> Will do, please remind me if I don't do it by Friday 
[19:16] * mrcoolbp has to figure out how to start adding all these tiny sub payments into GNU cash 
[19:16] <+mrcoolbp> kay 
[19:16] <+matt_> Bytram, we should hire an accountant no later than the end of January to get our taxes sorted 
[19:16] <+NCommander> matt_++ 
[19:16] <+Bytram> good point... $ ??? 
[19:16] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ estimate on what that will cost? 
[19:16] <+NCommander> I might have a contact that can do it, I will check to see if he would be interested 
[19:16] <+mrcoolbp> great, let us know next meeting? 
[19:17] <+NCommander> Don't know if I will know by then 
[19:17] <+NCommander> MIGHT have to wait until I'm in NYC again, which will be in November 
[19:17] <+mrcoolbp> my action-item fizzled from the last meeting, I'm not sure the spider-oak thing is worth the trouble of even writing a proposal 
[19:17] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, well, if you explain in advance that we are a pretty simple case, it should be less than $1000, i would think. 
[19:17] <+NCommander> I don't think we need to worry TOO much about this until 2015, and then we can file for extension 
[19:17] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ nod 
[19:17] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: okay 
[19:18] <+Bytram> hold on a moment... 
[19:18] * NCommander holds 
[19:18] <+matt_> also, there will be an excise tax bill from DE and probably one for MA, for a total of around $600-$700. 
[19:18] <+Bytram> todos: mrcoolbp 'sign' and 'return' doc to matt_ via e-mail 
[19:18] <+matt_> due sometime in 2015 
[19:18] <+Bytram> todos: NCommander 'sign' and 'return' doc to matt_ via e-mail 
[19:18] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: thanks 
[19:18] <+Bytram> todos: NCommander check with friend on accounting 
[19:19] * Bytram can grep for those after the meeting... did I miss anything, so far? 
[19:19] <+mrcoolbp> I think that covers it so far 
[19:19] <+Bytram> thanks 
[19:19] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: should we start paying linode with the cash on hand? 
[19:19] <+Bytram> hosting expenses through year end? 
[19:19] <+mrcoolbp> basically 
[19:20] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think we should look at making that change, we can cover things as if for the rest of the year 
[19:20] <+NCommander> And if we can dump some weight, go further 
[19:20] <+NCommander> I need to get crap written up on our longer term plans, but I could use some help in this area 
[19:21] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: delegate sections to some of the teams mayber? 
[19:21] <+Bytram> NCommander: this week ahead is crazy busy, but if you can hit the 'high points', I can ask leading questions and help get things covered. 
[19:22] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: have we done any research into reducing server costs? 
[19:22] <+mrcoolbp> (specifics) 
[19:22] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, some, no action taken as of yet 
[19:22] <+NCommander> I'll try and work with paul to start downsizing crap 
[19:22] <+Bytram> NCommander: much appreciated! 
[19:22] <+mrcoolbp> okay, I think he is settling in now, hopefully he has some time to work on that soon 
[19:23] <+Bytram> NCommander: there was also a point raised a while ago about self-hosting *possibly* being less expensive. 
[19:23] * Bytram doesn't recall the specifics 
[19:23] <+NCommander> Indeed, we could probably go with one beefy server, and use VPSes, if we accept the single point of failure risk 
[19:23] <+NCommander> If someone wants to research that, I'd be game 
[19:24] <+Bytram> hrmm, single point opf failure does not sound so enticing. 
[19:24] <+mrcoolbp> Okay, while we are on the funding topic, if I may interject: we created a rough "Funding Meter" 
[19:24] <+mrcoolbp> it's on the staff slash in the site news box 
[19:24] * Bytram scurries over to look 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> could easily be copied over to prod in seconds, easy to manually update (once a week or so?) 
[19:25] <+matt_> nice! hard to miss :) 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: check it out 
[19:25] <+NCommander> Indeed 
[19:25] <+Bytram> huh! /me missed it. :( 
[19:25] * NCommander is dealing with the fact his phone keeping going off every 30 seonds 
[19:26] <+NCommander> I'm about to eject it out the window 
[19:26] <+Bytram> NCommander: going off, as in ringing? or as in losing your connection? 
[19:26] <+NCommander> Bytram, both 
[19:26] <+NCommander> I'm tethering because home internet is out 
[19:26] <+NCommander> When the phone goes off, I DC 
[19:26] <+NCommander> -_-; 
[19:26] <+mrcoolbp> fantastic 
[19:26] * Bytram has the same issue. 
[19:27] <+Bytram> let's try and move things along, then, shall we? 
[19:27] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, yeah. I'm dealing with fallout from a RL issue from last night 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: understood, any ideas on the funding meter? 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> like/hate etc. 
[19:27] <+NCommander> Love 
[19:27] <+NCommander> Really love 
[19:27] <+NCommander> Like, go put it on production right now 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> okay, is $10K our goal? 
[19:28] <+NCommander> matt_, did my math from the longer term plan email sound reasonable? 
[19:28] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: I like it a LOT, but ... need time stamps of some sort to gauge when/what the totals/amounts were obtained/posted. 
[19:28] * matt_ double-checks 
[19:28] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: hmm 
[19:28] <+Bytram> sounds in the ballpark of what I recall... but don't recall specifics 
[19:29] <+Bytram> btw, the bar graph looks GREAT! 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> audioguy and me collabed on that one 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> but I made him do the "work" of it 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> = ) 
[19:30] <+NCommander> Let's put 10k as a tentative goal, it lets us pay all our bills, handle lawyer and CPA, and have a bit left over 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> sounds good 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> I'll do that after the meeting 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> (put up on prod) 
[19:30] <+matt_> NCommander, it's a reasonable rough estimate of what will be needed in the next year or so at the current hosting rate. however, i think if you're going to ask for $10k from the community, you should be quite sure that it is needed and will be well spent. 
[19:30] <+Bytram> todos: add progress meter to main site on prod 
[19:31] <+Bytram> matt_: and that it will be enough, as well... budget in for the known unknowns. 
[19:31] <+NCommander> matt_, we know for the fact we need a CPA, and that's what our hosting costs are will be if nothing changes, and we want to hire a lwyer on retainer at some point 
[19:31] <+Bytram> at hits juncture, I'd estimate at least 20-25% 
[19:31] <+Bytram> s/hits/this/ 
[19:32] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ we've been pretty transparent about what we're spending the money on, should we re-iterate in a post? 
[19:32] <+matt_> NCommander, but i think we are considering methods to reduce hosting costs, and we should shop around a bit more for a lawyer if that will be half of our total annual budget... 
[19:32] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: good idea, but not so much re-iterate, as opposed to maybe a progress report -- state of site report, so to speak/write? 
[19:33] <+NCommander> matt_, agreed, but that was the rough industry standard on lawyering as far as I can tell 
[19:33] <+mrcoolbp> after we figure out ^^^^ 
[19:33] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[19:33] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, i would think that at least a link near the progress bar to as detailed a description as possible of what the requested money will be spent on. 
[19:33] * Bytram wonders if there is a cpa in the community? 
[19:33] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ could that go on the wiki? 
[19:33] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, yep! 
[19:34] <+Bytram> and then maybe a status report on the main site that points to it? 
[19:34] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ I can also try to scrape through the SN posts and find relevant ones to link to from there 
[19:34] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: you have time for that? 
[19:34] <+matt_> i think it would be great to start spending some funds on improving the user experience (original content, etc.). 
[19:34] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: meh, I'll make it happen 
[19:34] <+NCommander> Let's get a final budget setup for crap; matt, if you could review my numbers, and probably start a discussion on the list? 
[19:35] <+mrcoolbp> good idea ^ 
[19:36] <+NCommander> Longer term, we need to figure out wherelse we want to spend money 
[19:36] <+NCommander> adversing might be a good idea, if we are careful, but hard to know where 
[19:36] <+Bytram> todos: mrcoolbp " try to scrape through the SN posts and find relevant ones to link to from there" re: link on progress bar 
[19:36] <+mrcoolbp> got it down, thanks sir 
[19:36] <+matt_> NCommander, iirc, there has been discussion of a crowdfunding campaign. 
[19:36] <+mrcoolbp> ah yes 
[19:37] <+matt_> that can generate a lot of revenue very quickly. 
[19:37] <+NCommander> matt_, yes, that's kinda a longer term plan I've had, but we're some distance from it 
[19:37] <+mrcoolbp> Ncommander: agreed, I think the Subs were a sort of initial campaign 
[19:38] <+NCommander> They give us a good idea of what our community will raise as is 
[19:38] <+matt_> well, considering the amount recently raised by a high-tech beer cooler ($2.5M, i think), if the presentation is right, things don't have to be at too advanced a stage... 
[19:38] <+Bytram> is there any kind of acknowledgement / reminder on the user's page or the main site about subscriptions? A thanker/nagger kind of thing? 
[19:39] <+NCommander> matt_, do we want to try and go all in with crowdfunding now? 
[19:39] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: we have a link in the sitenews 
[19:39] <+matt_> NCommander, it could also be a good way of generating some much-needed publicity. 
[19:39] <+NCommander> or make it a much sooner term objective 
[19:39] <+mrcoolbp> it nags you when you need to re-up if you set the setting in settings = ) 
[19:39] <+NCommander> matt_, *chews* 
[19:40] <+NCommander> matt_, I want to make sure we look credible, and have folks with experience in the field with us up front to make it clear we're serious about this. 
[19:40] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: thanks; I was thinking more along the lines of... it's 10 months from now... who'll know/remember when it's time to renew 
[19:40] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: it nags you when you need to re-up if you set the setting in settings = ) 
[19:40] <+Bytram> k; will discuss offline; not germane to board mtg 
[19:40] <+matt_> NCommander, it should definitely be a polished presentation, i think, but can still be fairly conceptual. 
[19:41] <+NCommander> BTW< the subscription info emails are bugged 
[19:41] <+NCommander> Hard 
[19:41] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ a video would be ideal, those should be polished 
[19:41] <+NCommander> as is slash's internal subscription tracker numbers for revenue and crap 
[19:41] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: we have a year to fix right? = ) 
[19:41] * NCommander groans 
[19:41] <+Bytram> NCommander: bugged? as in a tracker? or as in buggy/dodgy/poor code? 
[19:41] <+NCommander> Bytram ask me later 
[19:42] <+Bytram> k 
[19:42] <+NCommander> Do we want to set a date of when we're going to launch crowdfunding by? 
[19:42] * NCommander wonders if we should try and do it right after the holidays 
[19:42] <+mrcoolbp> I think we should get a proposal together first 
[19:42] <+Bytram> ^^^^^ 
[19:42] <+Bytram> what's in it for the contributors? 
[19:42] <+matt_> Bytram, SWAG! 
[19:42] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, agreed, but I want to set a timeline of doing crap 
[19:43] <+Bytram> matt_: =) 
[19:43] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: okay, so maybe January, when we're spending money on Accountants = ) 
[19:43] <+NCommander> Indeed 
[19:43] <+matt_> NCommander, do you think that you could put together a rough proposal in a week or so? really just an outline of what is needed (video, list of rewards for contributors, etc.) 
[19:44] <+mrcoolbp> "what the rewards are" is the hard part I think 
[19:44] <+mrcoolbp> and the video maybe 
[19:44] <+NCommander> matt_, yeah, I think so 
[19:44] <+NCommander> !todo crowdfunding TODO list 
[19:44] <+Bytram> how about a non-calendar 'time', but upon completion of necessary tasks to be at a point we can say "we've already done foo, bar, and bazz. we need your help, now, to do fuzzbar" 
[19:44] <+NCommander> Bytram, having a set date of when we deliver by prevents it from going off to lala land 
[19:44] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, i think that most of the small rewards will be stickers, free subs, etc. (i.e., low-to-no cost) 
[19:44] <+Bytram> matt_++ 
[19:44] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ that sounds good 
[19:45] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, and of course, for the mega-contributors, dinner with NC :) 
[19:45] <+mrcoolbp> right 
[19:45] <+Bytram> matt_: dinner *for* nc! 
[19:45] <+mrcoolbp> you have to buy him a beer still though 
[19:45] <+NCommander> ugh 
[19:45] * NCommander feels his stomach turn 
[19:45] <+NCommander> Blah 
[19:46] <+Bytram> hrmmmm? 
[19:46] <+mrcoolbp> matt_, NCommander: so are we in aggreement about paying for server costs with cash on hand? 
[19:47] <+Bytram> nd for what duration? 
[19:47] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, sounds good to me. if they can be reduced asap without reduction in quality of service (i know it may be impossible) that would be good too, i think. 
[19:47] <+NCommander> Indeed 
[19:47] <+mrcoolbp> Move to Vote: "Pay for future server bills with cash on hand" 
[19:47] <+NCommander> We've got a month to get the bill lower 
[19:47] <+NCommander> AYE 
[19:47] <+Bytram> are we talkiong about just Sept? 
[19:47] <+matt_> Aye! 
[19:47] <+mrcoolbp> Aye 
[19:47] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: until further notice 
[19:48] <+Bytram> so, that would be for current hosting bills outstanding and ongoing? 
[19:48] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: you'll have to make me an account by the end of the year so I can put in the payment info 
[19:48] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, why don't you see if you can use your mastercard. if so, we can get 1% cash back :) 
[19:48] <+mrcoolbp> lol 
[19:48] <+NCommander> Bytram, indeed 
[19:48] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ then *I* get 1% back 
[19:48] <+mrcoolbp> = ) 
[19:48] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, oh, i forgot that it's a debit card, so we won't get cash back. 
[19:49] <+mrcoolbp> correct, we don't have a credit card yet 
[19:49] <+Bytram> unanimous vote: AGREED: "Pay for future server bills with cash on hand" 
[19:50] <+NCommander> What other business do we have to attend to? 
[19:50] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, we could actually apply for a credit card at any time. we may be able to get a reasonable credit line. 
[19:50] <+mrcoolbp> Yeah, but *I* wouldn't give us credit = ) 
[19:50] <+matt_> NCommander, there are 2 other items on the wiki: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting 
[19:51] <+mrcoolbp> Just Added ^ 
[19:51] <+Bytram> matt_: yup. 
[19:51] <+Bytram> let me ghet the next one... 
[19:51] <+Bytram> "Issue 2:Privacy Policy for the site/corp. I see nothing on the site's home page about this. Although I know we've endeavored to respect community member's privacy, it's been mostly a "trust us" kind of thing. Do we have any formal statement or policy? At a minimum, I would expect to see a link to it on the bottom of the home page (and, ideally, every page on the site.) " 
[19:51] <+Bytram> note... 
[19:51] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[19:51] * mrcoolbp withdraws the most recent sub payments to our bank account 
[19:51] <+NCommander> I actually meant to bring something like this 
[19:51] <+Bytram> I added this issue (and the one that follows) based on seeing a report that 4chan had added a DMCA notice on their site. 
[19:51] <+NCommander> I think we need a firm policy, and I also want a policy on dealing on doxing 
[19:52] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: "doxing" ? 
[19:52] <+Bytram> i realize that this may more proprly lie in the realm 
[19:52] <+NCommander> Its a reddit term 
[19:52] <+matt_> So, we have actually been working on a general "SN Policy Manual" for a few weeks now (on the wiki). janrinok has been instrumental in putting together the "Editorial Policy" section. 
[19:52] <+Bytram> of site operations, but I think it important that the board have 
[19:52] <+Bytram> a chance to weigh in on it 
[19:52] <+matt_> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/SoylentNews_Policy_Document 
[19:52] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ i've added nothing to the "rest of it" 
[19:52] <+NCommander> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxing 
[19:52] <+mrcoolbp> thx 
[19:53] <+mrcoolbp> okay, well we have some manifesto stuff to draw from for this 
[19:53] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[19:53] <+mrcoolbp> http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/05/12/0335243 
[19:53] <+mrcoolbp> manifesto post ^ 
[19:53] <+matt_> mechanistically, perhaps a good way of going about this would be to get all of the staff involved in creating the draft policy, then have the board officially adopt it. 
[19:53] <+NCommander> On a side note, I also think we should consider changing the default view level of the site 
[19:53] <+NCommander> From 0 -> 1 
[19:54] <+NCommander> There's been a lot of AC crap as of late 
[19:54] <+mrcoolbp> I can ACK that 
[19:54] * matt_ always changes to Nested so he can read everything easily... 
[19:54] <+matt_> and -1 
[19:54] <+Bytram> I've seen that, but I browse at -1 all the time. 
[19:54] <+NCommander> matt_, right, just general impression crap 
[19:54] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: but we should mention it someoewhere, or only allow for *new* accounts 
[19:54] <+Bytram> with everything pre-expanded... I see it all, all the time. 
[19:54] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, default for non-logged in and AC, nothing changed retroactively 
[19:54] <+mrcoolbp> s/allow/change for/ 
[19:54] <+mrcoolbp> oh 
[19:54] <+mrcoolbp> okay then 
[19:55] <+Bytram> NCommander++ 
[19:55] <+Bytram> is there a motion on the floor? 
[19:55] <+matt_> NCommander, as long as it's not retroactive for logged-in users, it sounds good to me. 
[19:55] <+NCommander> Uh ... 
[19:55] <+matt_> is this a board-level item? 
[19:55] * NCommander isn't sure this is a typical board thing 
[19:55] <+mrcoolbp> I guess we can vote on that, not really necessary though 
[19:55] <+mrcoolbp> lol 
[19:55] <+mrcoolbp> GMTA 
[19:55] <+matt_> ninja'd! 
[19:55] * NCommander coughs 
[19:56] <+NCommander> Moving on 
[19:56] <+mrcoolbp> yes 
[19:56] <+Bytram> not really a board level item, but if were gonna agree on somethjing, it's nice to know exactly what *it* IS. 
[19:56] * NCommander is really hopng we can finish today within an hour 
[19:56] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: you have 5 minutes then 
[19:56] <+mrcoolbp> s/you/we/ 
[19:56] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[19:56] <+mrcoolbp> okay, can we leave these two items for the next meeting then? 
[19:56] <+Bytram> okay, so what was the conclusion on the privacy policy issue? 
[19:57] <+NCommander> We need to draft one 
[19:57] <+NCommander> Any takers? 
[19:57] <+mrcoolbp> there wasn't one, other then we agree we need one 
[19:57] <+matt_> NCommander, mrcoolbp, how about sending an email to the staff list asking them to provide input on the Policy wiki 
[19:57] * NCommander is seriously tapped out 
[19:57] <+Bytram> I am fine with tabling till next mtg 
[19:57] <+mrcoolbp> matt_ okay, I can do that 
[19:57] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, cool! 
[19:57] <+mrcoolbp> I might want to tidy up some things before I let them tear it apart 
[19:57] <+matt_> Bytram, if you want, you could add a "Privacy" section to the policy wiki. 
[19:57] <+mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[19:57] <+Bytram> TODOS: mrcoolbp e-mail to staff on providing inout on the policy wiki 
[19:58] <+mrcoolbp> there we go 
[19:58] <+Bytram> TODOS: Bytram add Privacy section to policy wiki 
[19:58] <+mrcoolbp> got 'em, thanks 
[19:58] <+Bytram> the cair would accept a motion to adjourn 
[19:58] <+Bytram> s/cair/chair/ 
[19:58] <+mrcoolbp> anything else we need to discuss? 
[19:58] <+matt_> we have one remaining issue on the wiki about copyrights, i think... 
[19:58] <+Bytram> the next thing on the todo was the same tconcept, but about copyrights. 
[19:59] == prospectacle [~31b58f91@ai22-919-926-428.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #staff 
[19:59] <+Bytram> Issue 3:Copyright notice. The only notice I've found on SoylentNews.org is the notice appearing before the comments to a story or journal entry: "The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way." What about the rest of the site? The stories? Journal postings themselves? Other? At a minimum, I would expect to see a link to it on the bottom 
[19:59] <+Bytram> of the home page (and, ideally, every page on the site.) 
[19:59] <+matt_> ok. so, a "Copyright" section in the policy wiki too? 
[19:59] <+mrcoolbp> uuuh 
[19:59] <+mrcoolbp> sure. 
[19:59] <+Bytram> TODOS: Bytram add Copyright section to policy wiki 
[19:59] <+NCommander> I'd like to license future content going on as probably CC-SA, or something like that 
[19:59] <+Bytram> we do have a *diferent* privacy notice on the wiki, btw 
[20:00] <+mrcoolbp> bytram: link 
[20:00] <+mrcoolbp> ? 
[20:00] <+Bytram> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting#Issues 
[20:00] <+Bytram> look at the VERY bottom of the page, on the right hand side 
[20:00] <+Bytram> CC BY SA 
[20:01] <+Bytram> Also: there is the text: "Content is available under Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike unless otherwise noted." 
[20:01] <+Bytram> Huh! and there's a privacy policy on the wiki: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/SoylentNews:Privacy_policy 
[20:01] <+NCommander> lets get this consistent and conformed 
[20:01] <+mrcoolbp> Privacy Policy: "There is currently no text in this page" 
[20:01] <+NCommander> I don't think there will be much issue with fixing this going forward, as long as its not retroactive 
[20:02] <+Bytram> code on github... what license do we have there? 
[20:02] <+Bytram> GPL? v2? v3? 
[20:02] <+NCommander> GPLv2 
[20:03] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[20:03] <+NCommander> Which was the slash license, no provision to upgrade 
[20:03] <+NCommander> So that's decided 
[20:03] <+Bytram> TODOS: note: 'slashcode' for SN is GPL v2 
[20:03] <+Bytram> nod nod 
[20:04] <+NCommander> My stomach is gettng violently upset 
[20:04] <+matt_> shall we schedule the next meeting? say in 1-2 weeks? 
[20:04] <+NCommander> How about a week, but can we do it sometime other than Wednesday? 
[20:04] <+mrcoolbp> hmm 
[20:04] * Bytram loads his schedule 
[20:05] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander: Friday maybe? Though I only have 7-8pm if matt_ can't start earlier 
[20:05] * NCommander can make wednesday work, but they're a bit awkward for me 
[20:06] <+Bytram> brb 
[20:06] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, i can do Friday the 12th, and a little earlier, say 6pm? 
[20:06] <+mrcoolbp> that should work 
[20:06] == mythterj [mythterj@tonvizu.sdf.org] has joined #staff 
[20:06] * Bytram is working until 6:15 EDT on friday. 
[20:06] <+mrcoolbp> Bytram: how long is the commute? 
[20:07] <+Bytram> 15 minutes 
[20:07] <+matt_> want to make it 6:30? 
[20:07] <+Bytram> but, *you* are the board, so make the time that works for you. 
[20:07] * mrcoolbp pictures Bytram rushing home for the meeting 
[20:07] <+mrcoolbp> I'm fine with 6:30 
[20:07] * NCommander pictures Bytram on IRC while driving 
[20:07] <+NCommander> That would be 2:30 PM my time 
[20:07] <+NCommander> That should be OK 
[20:08] <+mrcoolbp> great: matt: send another notification for us if you would? 
[20:08] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, will do! 
[20:08] <+Bytram> I might be able to get out early, or may get tied up... but I'll sure try hard to get here by 6:30PM EDT (what time is that UTC?) 
[20:09] <+mrcoolbp> + 4 
[20:09] <+mrcoolbp> 22:30 I think 
[20:09] <+Bytram> Friday, Sept 12 at 20:30 UTC 
[20:10] <+mrcoolbp> I thinks it's 22:30 
[20:10] <+Bytram> ugh, yes. 22:30 
[20:10] <+Bytram> but is that AM or PM? ;) 
[20:10] <+Bytram> Friday, Sept 12 at 22:30 UTC 
[20:11] <+mrcoolbp> yup yup 
[20:11] <+Bytram> anything else to discuss? 
[20:11] * NCommander is done 
[20:11] <+mrcoolbp> not pressing 
[20:11] <+mrcoolbp> I move to Adjourn 
[20:11] <+matt_> nope 
[20:11] <+Bytram> matt_: would you be so kind to post the minutes on the wiki? 
[20:11] <+NCommander> Aye 
[20:11] <+NCommander> (and second) 
[20:11] <+mrcoolbp> lol 
[20:11] <+matt_> Aye! 
[20:11] <+mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[20:12] <+Bytram> meeting adjourned!

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - July 8, 2014

2016-10-11T21:38:22Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
<- Back to [[SoylentNews_PBC_Board_of_Directors|Board of Directors]]

[18:51] <@NCommander> Alright, I'm ready to begin 
[18:51] <@matt_> So, before we get to the agenda, a couple of quick points: 
[18:52] <prospectacle> NCommander. Sorry to hear it, hope you're on the upswing. 
[18:52] <@matt_> First: Our simple bylaws do not specifically allow board meetings over irc :( and we had less than the required 2 business days notice of this meeting :( but that's ok because we can take action without a meeting according to Article III, Section 11: "Action without a Meeting" :) 
[18:52] <@NCommander> prospectacle, for the most part 
[18:52] <@matt_> This works as long as "all members of the Board of Directors [...] consent thereto in writing or by electronic transmission, and such writings or electronic transmissions are filed with the records of the meetings of the Board of Directors", because "Such consent shall be treated as a valid and proper vote of the Board of Directors or committee thereof for all purposes". 
[18:52] <@matt_> So, long-story short, any decisions that we make here need to be unanimous to be binding. We can change this by voting to amend the bylaws during this meeting, if you want, or we can leave that for later. 
[18:52] <@matt_> Also, "Such filing may be in paper form if the minutes are maintained in paper form and may be in electronic form if the minutes are maintained in electronic form." 
[18:52] <@matt_> So, first question: do we want to keep the minutes in paper form or electronic form (i'm guessing electronic). If electronic, the Secretary (who we will elect in a minute) should make a clean copy in a flat file (it can also go up on an edit-locked wiki page or equivalent, if you like). 
[18:53] * NCommander votes for electronic 
[18:53] * mrcoolbp votes electronic 
[18:53] * matt_ also votes for electronic 
[18:53] <@matt_> I also recommend that immediately after this meeting we confirm by email (i) our presence at this meeting and (ii) any votes that we take here, just in case any of us are sockpuppets ;o 
[18:53] <@matt_> Ok, so i only have 8 agenda items (if you don't count items 2a-2c and 6a-6f as separate items :) 
[18:53] <@matt_> We can add additional items as needed. 
[18:54] <@matt_> Agenda items for discussion (some of which will require a vote): 
[18:54] <@matt_> 1. Ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws. 
[18:54] <@matt_> 2. Elect officers: 
[18:54] <@matt_> 2a. Required: Chief Executive Officer, President, Treasurer, Secretary 
[18:54] <@matt_> 2b. Optional: Any others, including one or more Vice Presidents, Assitant Treasurers, Assitant Secretaries, Chairman of the Board, etc. 
[18:54] <@matt_> 2c. Remember: Article IV, Section 3: "No officer need be a stockholder or Director. Any two or more offices may be held by the same person." 
[18:54] <@matt_> 3. Authorize opening a business checking account in the name of the Corporation. 
[18:54] <@matt_> 4. Authorize opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation. 
[18:54] <@matt_> 5. Discuss the plan to offer subscriptions (and SWAG?). 
[18:54] <@matt_> 6. Discuss upcoming expenditures: 
[18:54] <@matt_> 6a. operational costs (hosting, QuickBooks, ...?) 
[18:54] <@matt_> 6b. accountant ($1500 retainer, $1500 to file) + taxes ($500 MA, $500 DE) 
[18:55] <@matt_> 6c. lawyer ($5000 retainer) 
[18:55] <@matt_> 6d. commission original articles? how to structure? how much to budget? other ways to generate more original content? 
[18:55] <@matt_> 6e. pay editors, developers, et al. or maintain all as volunteers at least until we are more sure about our finances? 
[18:55] <@matt_> 6f. reimburse start-up costs or issue stock? 
[18:55] <@matt_> 7. Open the floor to discussion of any other pressing issues: Amending the bylaws to include community involvement, SN's policy on Editorial Independence, ... 
[18:55] <@matt_> 8. Adjourn! 
[18:55] <@matt_> Any objections to this agenda or any items to add (can add later at any point too)? 
[18:55] <@NCommander> .... damn .... 
[18:55] <@matt_> = ) 
[18:55] <@NCommander> This is good 
[18:55] * mrcoolbp says "nay" 
[18:55] <@mrcoolbp> (no objections) 
[18:55] <@NCommander> No objections here either 
[18:56] <@matt_> cool. 
[18:56] <@NCommander> Actually 
[18:56] <@NCommander> wait 
[18:56] <@matt_> k 
[18:56] <@NCommander> Amend the bylaws for IRC meetings 
[18:56] <@matt_> ok. added to item 7, 
[18:56] <@NCommander> That was a stupid oversight, I think we had concerns about IRC meetings legally, but TBH, as long as the notes and minutes are filed properly, I don't think its the issue 
[18:56] <@NCommander> Other than that, we're good 
[18:57] <@matt_> Ok, first up: Item 1: Ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws: 
[18:57] <@matt_> Would anyone like to make a comment or shall we proceed with our first vote? 
[18:57] <@NCommander> I think we can all vote on this, we've all looked at them extensively (and had considerably eye bleed) 
[18:57] * NCommander votes to vote 
[18:57] * mrcoolbp seconds 
[18:57] * matt_ thirds 
[18:57] <@matt_> Ok, let's put it to a vote. You can vote "Aye", "No", or "Present" (please don't vote "Present" ;-P ): 
[18:57] <@NCommander> Aye 
[18:58] <@matt_> Question: Does the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC (the "Corporation") hereby ratify the Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws of the Corporation in their current form? 
[18:58] <@matt_> Aye! 
[18:58] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[18:58] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[18:58] <@matt_> Resolved: The Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws are hereby ratified in their current form. 
[18:58] <@NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0 
[18:58] <@matt_> nice! 
[18:58] <@matt_> Next up: Item 2: The election of officers. Remember: Article IV, Section 3: "No officer need be a stockholder or Director. Any two or more offices may be held by the same person." 
[18:58] <@NCommander> (Aye/Nay/Abstain) 
[18:58] <@matt_> First, the President: 
[18:58] == Drop [~Drop___@via1-vhat2-0-3-jppz214.perr.cable.virginm.net] has joined #staff 
[18:58] <@matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 8: "The President shall be the chief operating officer of the Corporation and shall have general charge of its business operations, subject to the direction of the Board of Directors." 
[18:58] <@matt_> I nominate Michael. Are there any other nominations? 
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[18:59] <@NCommander> Question: since we need unambious voting, do I have to vote for myself? 
[18:59] * NCommander rather abstain 
[18:59] <@matt_> yes you do! 
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> haha 
[18:59] <@NCommander> Damn 
[18:59] <@matt_> :) 
[18:59] <@matt_> All those in favor of electing Michael Casadevall to the office of President of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Michael Casadevall fill the vacancy in the office of President of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified): 
[18:59] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[18:59] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:00] <@matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the President of SoylentNews PBC. 
[19:00] <@NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0 
[19:00] <@matt_> Next, the CEO: 
[19:00] == Azrael [~Az@a-30-52-93-384.freedom7surf.net] has joined #staff 
[19:00] <@matt_> The powers and authorities of this office are not specifically defined in the Bylaws, except insofar as Article IV, Section 11 states: "Subject to these Bylaws, each officer of the Corporation shall have in addition to the duties and powers specifically set forth in these Bylaws, such duties and powers as are customarily incident to his office, and such duties and powers as may be designated from time to time by the Board of Directors." 
[19:00] <@matt_> I nominate Michael. Are there any other nominations? 
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[19:01] <@matt_> NCommander, any other nominations for CEO? 
[19:01] <@NCommander> No nominations 
[19:01] <@matt_> All those in favor of electing Michael Casadevall to the office of Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Michael Casadevall fill the vacancy in the office of Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified): 
[19:01] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[19:01] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:01] <@matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC. 
[19:01] <@NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0 
[19:02] <@matt_> Next, the Treasurer: 
[19:02] <@matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 9: "The Treasurer shall, subject to the direction of the Board of Directors, have general charge of the financial affairs of the Corporation and shall cause to be kept accurate books of account. The Treasurer shall have custody of all funds, securities, and valuable documents of the Corporation, except as the Board of Directors may otherwise provide." 
[19:02] <@matt_> Let's discuss this one. 
[19:02] <@NCommander> So, we need to keep accurate books in a format an account can grok 
[19:02] <@NCommander> And in a style that's auditable and understanding such as double-book accounting 
[19:03] <@matt_> yeah. important to note, the Treasurer is not the only person who has _access_ to the books, accounts, etc. 
[19:03] <@NCommander> I'd also like to have our books accessible to the public to the extent permissible by law 
[19:03] <@matt_> the Treasurer simply is responsible for keeping them accurate, etc. 
[19:04] <@matt_> Also worth considering: it takes some time, requires someone who has a good eye for detail... 
[19:04] <@mrcoolbp> hmmm...eye for detail would be martyb/bytram 
[19:04] <@NCommander> I don't like volunteering someone who isn't here 
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> agreed, just making an observation 
[19:05] <@NCommander> In addition, we're likely going to need to use Quickbooks, so someone who is willing to use Windows or Mac OS X 
[19:05] <@matt_> Agreed. While it would be nice to elect a Treasurer at this meeting, since we are required by law to have one, it would be fine to postpone that until later, if you wish. 
[19:05] <@NCommander> I rather have someone fill the position in the interim 
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> well, I don't have a copy of quickbooks, but I do have a windows machine 
[19:06] * mrcoolbp nominates self 
[19:06] <@matt_> Good point. 
[19:06] * matt_ seconds 
[19:06] * NCommander seconds the nomination 
[19:06] <@matt_> ok, standby :) 
[19:07] <@matt_> All those in favor of electing Ben Prentice to the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Ben Prentice fill the vacancy in the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified): 
[19:07] <@NCommander> Aye, with the condition that we bring this up next meeting 
[19:07] <@matt_> that's not a voting option. 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> lol 
[19:08] <@NCommander> Aye 
[19:08] <@matt_> let's try that again! 
[19:08] <@matt_> All those in favor of electing Ben Prentice to the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Ben Prentice fill the vacancy in the office of Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified): 
[19:08] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:08] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[19:08] <@NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0 
[19:08] <@matt_> Resolved: Ben Prentice is the Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC. 
[19:08] <@matt_> Next, the Secretary: 
[19:08] <@matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 10: "The Secretary shall record the proceedings of all meetings of the stockholders and the Board of Directors in books kept for that purpose." 
[19:08] <@matt_> Any volunteers? 
[19:09] * NCommander nominates matt_ 
[19:09] * mrcoolbp seconds 
[19:09] <@matt_> lol!. please stand by. 
[19:10] <@NCommander> matt_, when you come to the meeting with an agenda that's on par with my site news posts, what did you expect :-P 
[19:10] <@matt_> hah! 
[19:10] <@matt_> All those in favor of electing Matt Angel to the office of Secretary of SoylentNews PBC (or, in the event that such an election would be unlawful at this meeting, resolving that Matt Angel fill the vacancy in the office of Secretary of SoylentNews PBC until such time as his replacement is duly elected and qualified): 
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:10] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[19:10] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:10] <@matt_> Next, the Chairman of the Board of Directors (optional): 
[19:10] <@NCommander> Motion Carries, 3/0/0 
[19:10] <@matt_> Bylaws, Article IV, Section 7: "The Chairman of the Board, if one is elected, shall preside, when present, at all meetings of the stockholders and of the Board of Directors. The Chairman of the Board shall have such other powers and perform such other duties as the Board of Directors may from time to time designate. In the event of a deadlock in voting on matters at meetings of the Board of Directors or of any Committee of the Board, the Chairman shall have an extra vote (casting vote) to break the deadloc 
[19:10] <@matt_> *cough* 
[19:11] <@NCommander> I think we should table this one 
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> second 
[19:11] <@matt_> it is optional, after all. 
[19:11] <@matt_> ok. tabled. 
[19:11] <@NCommander> I think Martyb or mattie_p would work in this regard, but w/o them present, I don't want to nominate them 
[19:11] <@matt_> Ok, would anyone like to elect any other officers, including one or more Vice Presidents, Assitant Treasurers, Assitant Secretaries, etc.? 
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> nay 
[19:11] <@NCommander> nay 
[19:12] <@matt_> nay 
[19:12] <@matt_> Next: Item 3. Authorize opening a business checking account in the name of the Corporation. 
[19:12] <@matt_> so, i had a good talk with a banker the other day. 
[19:12] <@NCommander> Actually, side question, did we get our EIN yet? 
[19:12] <@matt_> at BoA. The good news is that they don't need SSNs... 
[19:12] * NCommander knows we applied for it 
[19:12] <@matt_> yep, I sent it to you in the email with the incorporation docs. 
[19:13] <@matt_> as an attachment (pdf) 
[19:13] <@NCommander> Ah, brain fart 
[19:13] * NCommander waits for the bad news 
[19:13] <@matt_> However, they do require that anyone who will be a signer on the account present themselves in person... 
[19:13] <@matt_> with photo ID, and to sign. 
[19:13] <@matt_> But there is more good news, thankfully... 
[19:14] <@matt_> in the case of multiple signers in different locations, each signer can go to their local branch to sign up :) 
[19:14] <@NCommander> That might be problematic for me 
[19:14] <@NCommander> I don't think BOA *exists* in Alaska 
[19:14] <@matt_> really? 
[19:14] <@NCommander> I haven't seen one 
[19:14] <@NCommander> Checking Google Maps 
[19:15] <@NCommander> There's a BOA ATM, listed as "Permanently Closed" 
[19:15] <@NCommander> Hrm 
[19:15] <@matt_> what sort of banks are there in your area? 
[19:16] <@NCommander> Wells Fargo 
[19:16] <@NCommander> They basically have a monopoly on the state 
[19:16] <@matt_> hmm. that might work. 
[19:16] <@NCommander> Its not a blocker, the next time I'm on the east coast I can drop into a BOA 
[19:16] <@NCommander> But that might not be for a few months 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> Bank of America Mortgage 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> 579 Waddell St 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> Homer, AK 99603 
[19:16] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, Homer is ney impossible to get to without a car 
[19:16] <@matt_> perfect, NCommander, just pop down to Homer. 
[19:16] <@matt_> oh. 
[19:16] <@NCommander> I can rent one 
[19:17] <@NCommander> Yeah, if the Alaska Railroad went there, it would be trivial but argh 
[19:17] <@NCommander> -_-; 
[19:17] <prospectacle> http://locators.bankofamerica.com/locator/locator/LocatorAction.do says no branches or atms in alaska 
[19:17] <@NCommander> Cool, I caused the business equivelent of Abort/Retry/Fail :-P 
[19:18] <@matt_> so, most of the day-to-day transactions will be on the payment processor account, anyway (i.e., paypal) 
[19:18] <@NCommander> Well, I'd like to keep as little money as possible in PayPal 
[19:18] <@matt_> good plan. of course, they won't let you transfer it out of a new account for a few weeks, usually... 
[19:18] <@NCommander> That being said, I believe Linode accepts Paypal as a payment option 
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> cool 
[19:19] <@matt_> shall we go with BoA, then add NC as a signer as soon as he is in the lower 48 again (or makes it to Homer)? 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> I'm fine with it if NCommander is 
[19:19] <@NCommander> I don't think it will be a problem, most of the site stuff can be set on auto 
[19:20] <@NCommander> The only thing that requires manual intervention is the backup server, but we could just prepay it six months and forget about it 
[19:20] <@matt_> All those in favor of opening a business checking account at Bank of America in the name of the Corporation: 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> Aye 
[19:20] <@NCommander> Aye 
[19:20] <@matt_> Aye 
[19:20] <@matt_> Resolved. 
[19:20] <@matt_> Next up: Item 4. Authorize opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation. 
[19:21] <@matt_> All those in favor of opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation: 
[19:21] <@mrcoolbp> Aye 
[19:21] <@matt_> Aye 
[19:21] <@NCommander> Aye 
[19:21] <@matt_> who is going to take care of that one? 
[19:21] * matt_ can handle the BoA one. 
[19:21] * mrcoolbp was going to do it 
[19:21] <@matt_> cool. 
[19:21] * NCommander notes, for the record, I <3 you guys 
[19:22] <@matt_> Next: Item 5. Discuss the plan to offer subscriptions (and SWAG?). 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[19:22] <@matt_> duly noted. 
[19:22] <@matt_> =) 
[19:22] <@NCommander> Let me get the SN article thread out about this 
[19:22] <@matt_> so how is that plan coming along? 
[19:22] <@NCommander> Since its a good reference 
[19:23] <@NCommander> For context: http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/06/17/2034252 
[19:23] <@NCommander> To sumup, with discussions with the community 
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> http://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/06/17/2034252 
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> oops, too late, sorry 
[19:23] <@NCommander> Our initial offering on the subscription front is $20/yr, with a small set of perks 
[19:23] <@NCommander> Backend wise, we've got roughly 70-80 of that existing, as most of them were part of the "stock" slashcode subscription 
[19:23] <@matt_> yep, i guess i was more asking if there was anything left to be done code-wise, etc. 
[19:23] <@NCommander> Yeah, let me sum that up 
[19:24] <@NCommander> The biggest headache is that slashcode works on a usage base model, not time based 
[19:24] <@NCommander> While I understand WHY that was done, its confusing as heck TBH 
[19:24] <@NCommander> I've dug into the codebase, and theorically, its not difficult to retool 
[19:24] <@NCommander> The isSubscriber code is a single function, which does some fancy logic, fixing that (theorically) should be easy 
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[19:25] <@NCommander> My first attempt blew my dev instance to hell :-) 
[19:25] <@NCommander> We also need to do a bit to strip out the subscriber +1 functionality, and the ability to turn off the little star (that comment got repeated enough) 
[19:26] <@matt_> yeah, i remember those comments. 
[19:26] <@NCommander> It probably needs a weekend or two to get that bit working 
[19:26] <@NCommander> Here's the hard part 
[19:26] <@NCommander> We need to test to make sure /code properly intergrates with payment processors 
[19:26] <@NCommander> FOr Paypal, that means we need a dev account 
[19:26] <@matt_> yep. i actually did that on my website. 
[19:26] <@matt_> _very_ painful. 
[19:26] <@NCommander> I *don't* want day one with a few hundred users getting shafted because we did something stupid 
[19:27] <@NCommander> The "make subscriber" thing is a callback from Paypal (it hits a URL on the site with a special "secretword" in the string), so its stupidly fragile 
[19:27] <@matt_> ok. i guess all we should do at this meeting is confirm that getting that straightened out is a top priority. 
[19:27] <@NCommander> Yeah 
[19:27] <@matt_> unless you would like to delegate any specific tasks... 
[19:27] <@matt_> but it sounds like you have things under control =) 
[19:28] <@NCommander> I'll talk with paulej72 to see if he's willing to stomach it 
[19:28] <@matt_> nice. 
[19:28] <@NCommander> My time kinda limited at the moment 
[19:28] <@NCommander> We need to figure out what, if any, other payment processors we want 
[19:28] <@NCommander> Our community is likely to have an allergic reaction to paypal 
[19:28] <@NCommander> There's also a second aspect 
[19:28] <@NCommander> Do we want to require Paypal's extended verification 
[19:28] <@matt_> yeah. any ideas for other payment processors? 
[19:28] <@NCommander> i.e., requiring addresses and such, it reduces our liability but ... 
[19:28] <@matt_> and what's involved in getting extended verification? 
[19:29] <@matt_> oh. well we do have an address :) 
[19:29] <@NCommander> Its a switchbox as far as I know 
[19:29] <@NCommander> No, this is verifying the user 
[19:29] <@matt_> Oh. 
[19:29] <@NCommander> i.e., requiring them to put in an address and full name 
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: so not this: http://www.digicert.com/extended-validation-ssl.htm ? 
[19:29] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, no, though that reminds me of another thing we need to talk about :-) 
[19:29] <@NCommander> matt_, can we amend the agenda on "SSL certificates/domain" 
[19:29] <@matt_> I suspect once you set it up, you will get plenty of feedback from the community if they don't like what information is asked from them. 
[19:30] <@NCommander> matt_, I think we should leave it off unless we start getting abused 
[19:30] <@matt_> yep. i'll put that in item 7. as well. 
[19:30] <@NCommander> Final point, merchant fees 
[19:30] <@NCommander> Do we eat them, or charge them to the user 
[19:30] <@NCommander> We never brought this up in any of the discussions 
[19:30] <prospectacle> Just tell them you'll add various other payment options in the coming weeks (including pseudonymous ones), and these things take time. Most people would understand 
[19:31] * NCommander notes if we really wanted to do, we could always accept checks in the mail if we wanted to be arcaic 
[19:31] <@NCommander> But getting off topic 
[19:31] <@matt_> I think it's nice to pay only $20 for something that says it costs $20. (which i guess means we eat the merchant fee?) 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> I'm with you on that matt_ 
[19:32] <@NCommander> matt_, yeah, though I think for cases where tax applies (WA residents), that goes to the user 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[19:32] <@NCommander> Ok, so lets note this 
[19:33] <@matt_> ok, so the subscription plan is: NCommander talks with paulej72 to get the subscriptions working on the backend. 
[19:33] <@NCommander> We need a paypal dev account, I think those are easy to get though 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> I'll inquire about it when I setup the account 
[19:33] <@matt_> yeah. you can also just put the normal paypal account into "test" mode instead of "live" mode. 
[19:34] <@matt_> ok. if there's nothing else on subscriptions, let's move swiftly forward to... 
[19:34] <@NCommander> matt_, oh, thats probably saner, though we should probably have a dev account, and have dev.sn.org always pointed at it 
[19:34] <@matt_> SWAG! 
[19:34] <@NCommander> I think we've beaten this dead horse enough 
[19:34] <@matt_> any thoughts? 
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> coffee mugs and t-shirts 
[19:34] <@matt_> i would buy one of each! 
[19:34] <@NCommander> Off the top of my head, when I travel, I frequently send postcards, maybe offer special handwritten cards from unique places in the world (first one from Anchorage) 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Pipedot did custom USB sticks 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Like, really really freaking nice USB sticks 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> Shall we look into getting a 3rd party that will do all the work/shipping for us? 
[19:35] <@NCommander> So 
[19:35] <@NCommander> ... I hate to ask this 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Who owns the logo? 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I think frogblast made it 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Jon got it from the community 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> but I'm not sure 
[19:35] <@NCommander> I think we need to make sure we legally own it 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> ug 
[19:36] <@matt_> can we generate a backup logo? 
[19:36] <@NCommander> I think FrogBlast disappeared, I haven't seen him in ages 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> hold on 
[19:37] <@NCommander> http://pipedot.org/story/2014-05-02/pipedot-usb-drive - BTW, the pipedot USB stick 
[19:37] <@NCommander> We could preload a slashcode instance on it with a bootable dev environment 
[19:37] <@matt_> a *niche* item to be sure =) 
[19:38] <@matt_> any idea where bryan got them? 
[19:38] <@NCommander> He's sometimes around on our IRC network, so it wouldn't he hard to ask 
[19:39] <@NCommander> s/he/be/g 
[19:39] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, do you want to be in charge of drafting a swag plan? 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> yes, I'll look into it 
[19:39] <@matt_> and/or be in charge of recruiting one or more volunteers to do it =) 
[19:39] <@matt_> nice. 
[19:40] <@NCommander> Just to summarize previous RL meetings, I think we had the following ideas 
[19:40] <@NCommander> * customized UID t-shirts 
[19:40] <@NCommander> (probably also have UID 1/AC shirt) 
[19:40] <@NCommander> * USB drives 
[19:40] <@matt_> yeah. how about the idea of a limited-edition of NC-signed versions? 
[19:40] <@NCommander> * various SN shirts (conditional on making sure we don't have logo legal issue) 
[19:41] <@NCommander> That's fine for me, with the note that its going to have addition charge due to AK->anywhere requiring more postal 
[19:41] <@NCommander> (though we could do a variant on the usual "Free shipping*" * - except in Alaska) 
[19:41] <@mrcoolbp> heh 
[19:41] <@NCommander> Free Shipping in Alaska, all others pay cash :-) 
[19:41] <@matt_> nice. 
[19:41] <@matt_> unless there is anything else on swag, shall we move on to... 
[19:42] <@NCommander> Final note 
[19:42] <@NCommander> International shipping, we might have to look at VAT/customs/bleh 
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> = ( 
[19:42] <@matt_> :/ 
[19:42] <@NCommander> There's likely a vendor or two who can help us w/ that, but if we do it directly, we might have issues 
[19:42] * NCommander has had issues just carrying equipment over borders 
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> ideally for ease-of-use I'd like to get a 3rd party vendor that will print/ship for us 
[19:43] <@NCommander> I think the easiest solution is if we can find a vendor in the EU, which would allow us to ship across the scheign zone easily 
[19:43] <@NCommander> Which would cover 75-90% of the userbase 
[19:44] <@matt_> one commenter mentioned: http://www.topatoco.com 
[19:44] <@NCommander> I'm familiar with them, a lot of smaller sites (and web comics) use the, with good success 
[19:44] <@matt_> but, i think they may want us to have a known sales volume, etc. 
[19:44] <@matt_> perhaps worth contacting them, though 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> okay, noted 
[19:45] <@NCommander> We could always get preorders from the community :-) 
[19:45] <@NCommander> Boom, sales numbers 
[19:45] <@matt_> ok, any more swag thoughts? 
[19:45] <@NCommander> None off the top of my head 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> nope 
[19:46] <@matt_> Ok, Next is Item 6. Discuss upcoming expenditures: 
[19:46] <@matt_> First: 6a. operational costs (hosting, QuickBooks, ...?) 
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[19:46] <@matt_> I guess my question here is, are we in good shape as we are until the subscription revenue starts to come through? 
[19:47] <@NCommander> So, as previously stated, hosting costs are about $300 USD per month 
[19:47] <@matt_> ok. are you paying that month-to-month? 
[19:48] <@NCommander> Yeah 
[19:48] <@NCommander> Well, one node was prepaid a year by Jon 
[19:48] <@matt_> are you able to continue to do that for a while? 
[19:48] <@NCommander> (three of them were refunded, but one was left up) 
[19:48] <@NCommander> Yeah 
[19:48] <@NCommander> We need to seperate the linodes to a new account 
[19:48] <@NCommander> They're hosted on my personal linode account in my name, we can do that with a ticket to Linode 
[19:48] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: that should be easy, just mind those Zone files this time = _ 
[19:49] <@matt_> and you (or is it mrcoolbp, now) are planning to buy QuickBooks? 
[19:49] <@NCommander> Pfft, I haven't broken the site in months 
[19:49] * NCommander hears omnious thunder 
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ hmm let me see 
[19:49] <@matt_> are there any other operational costs that we're forgetting? 
[19:49] <@NCommander> Linode+Kimsurfi (offsite backup)+domain costs (but those are prepaid 2 years) 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Oh, SSL certificates 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> matt_, I can grab a copy 
[19:50] <@matt_> ah. how much will that be? 
[19:50] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, nice! save the receipt! 
[19:50] <@NCommander> So, I started the process with StartSSL.com 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Its a three step process 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Make account 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> matt_, will do = ) 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Get personally verified ($70 USD), already done 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Verify domain (free, done) 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Get the organization verified ($128 I think, not sure what they want for verification) 
[19:51] <@NCommander> Get a wildcard SSL certificate 
[19:51] <@NCommander> I can handle organization verification, but to get the SSL certificate in the domain name, we need to get the WHOIS information pointed to the right place 
[19:51] <@matt_> that reminds me, incorporation costs were $384 =) 
[19:51] <@matt_> NCommander, yeah. 
[19:51] <@matt_> that's in Item 7. =) 
[19:52] <@NCommander> Indeed 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ did you front all those costs too? 
[19:52] <@NCommander> But I was bringing it up for completeness 
[19:52] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, yep, it's paid. 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> oh, thanks 
[19:52] <@NCommander> If we take costs from golive, I'd estimate we're roughly $4k in the hole 
[19:52] <@NCommander> possibly 5 
[19:52] <@matt_> ok, shall we move on to: Item 6b. accountant ($1500 retainer, $1500 to file) + taxes ($500 MA, $500 DE) 
[19:52] <@matt_> so, these are rough estimates 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> ug 
[19:52] <@NCommander> That might not be as hard 
[19:52] <@matt_> the good news is... 
[19:53] <@matt_> that most of them don't need to be paid for several months. 
[19:53] <@NCommander> I have a CPA who might be willing to do it sans retainer for us 
[19:53] <@matt_> our fiscal year ends on Dec. 31, so we need to file our taxes next spring. 
[19:53] <@matt_> NCommander, nice! 
[19:53] <@NCommander> Due to having a prior relationship with yours truly, and the one I discussed our tax situation w/ 
[19:53] <@NCommander> I'll have to get a business arrangement formalized the next time I'm in New York, but he saw no problems with it 
[19:53] <@matt_> just something to keep on our radar screen, then. we should plan to get the accountant engaged before the end of the year. 
[19:54] <@NCommander> Ack 
[19:54] <@matt_> NCommander, great! 
[19:54] <@matt_> when will you be in NY next? 
[19:54] <@NCommander> I try not to be :-) 
[19:54] <@NCommander> November at the latest 
[19:54] <@matt_> i'm imagining you could just give him a call, instead? 
[19:54] <@NCommander> Yeah, or email 
[19:55] <@NCommander> But I'll probably have to sign legal paperwork, but its not a huge time crisis 
[19:55] <@matt_> which brings us to: Item: 6c. lawyer ($5000 retainer) 
[19:55] <@NCommander> So, if one thing we learned 
[19:55] <@NCommander> Finding a good lawyer is incredibly hard 
[19:55] <@matt_> true. and the good ones tend to be expensive. 
[19:55] <@NCommander> Especially one well versed in business laws and non-traditional stuff 
[19:56] <@matt_> perhaps it would be prudent to first get a sense of how much we can generate from subscription and swag revenue, and then regroup on the lawyer front? 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> second ^ 
[19:57] <@NCommander> thirded ^ 
[19:57] <@matt_> fourthed ^ 
[19:57] <@matt_> oh, wait. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> uh 
[19:57] <@matt_> =) 
[19:57] <@NCommander> .... there are three people here >.>; 
[19:57] <@matt_> ok, next: Item: 6d. commission original articles? how to structure? how much to budget? other ways to generate more original content? 
[19:57] <@NCommander> Oh boy 
[19:58] <@NCommander> So, while I"m pretty sure we can float our operational expenses off swag + subscriptions 
[19:58] <@NCommander> Not sure that will bring in enough on its own 
[19:58] <@NCommander> So I did some investigation of kickstarter/indiegogo (the later being my preferable choice) 
[19:58] <@matt_> i will now share with you my favorite comment to my stem-cell post: 
[19:58] <@matt_> "A. Good good extremely good. I felt I am at the right place reading this article." 
[19:58] <@matt_> =) 
[19:58] <@NCommander> Link? :-) 
[19:58] <@matt_> so, basically it looks like the community would enjoy some more original content... 
[19:58] <@matt_> http://soylentnews.org/comments.pl?sid=2730&cid=64653 
[19:59] <@NCommander> Well, the congressional rep thing went over suprisingly well 
[19:59] <prospectacle> I don't have voice, but: offer prizes for best article each week/month and the content quantity will take care of itself 
[19:59] <@NCommander> (that was kinda shocking, considering it "just happened") 
[19:59] <@NCommander> .voice prospectacle 
[19:59] == mode/#staff [+v prospectacle] by juggler 
[19:59] <@matt_> yeah, that was pretty awesome! 
[19:59] <@NCommander> prospectacle, now you have a voice 
[19:59] <@NCommander> So, here's roughly what I was thinking 
[20:00] <@NCommander> We want to have people work on a trial basis, writing what they feel like more or less, sites like ars technica often have op-ed pieces, with research/reviews/etc. 
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[20:00] <@NCommander> If someone can write, or we can mentor them, and the community likes them 
[20:00] <+prospectacle> thanks. I said: "ffer prizes for best article each week/month and the content quantity will take care of itself" 
[20:00] <@NCommander> prospectacle, we're all ops, so we can see it 
[20:00] <@matt_> i was actually thinking of starting on a purely "per article" basis. 
[20:00] <+prospectacle> oh, nevermind then 
[20:00] <@NCommander> I think we should work out paying on an article basis. 
[20:00] <@NCommander> damn it matt_, stop ninjaing me 
[20:00] <@mrcoolbp> heh 
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[20:01] <@matt_> wow! 
[20:01] <@NCommander> So, I actually brought this up w/ the accountant on how do we pay people 
[20:01] <@NCommander> We can basically 1099 (contractor) it, and call it good 
[20:01] <@matt_> yep, i 1099 a bunch of people, it's really cool :) 
[20:01] <@mrcoolbp> (quickbooks has a payroll function, but its per month) 
[20:02] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, 1099-MISC is a single piece of paper saying you gave someone this much money for X 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> (meaning costs lik $20/mo) 
[20:02] <@matt_> yeah, i use quickbooks payroll too (for employees). it's expensive, and they lock you in kind of. 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> cool 
[20:02] <@NCommander> They're stupidly easy to fill out 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah I've seen one or two 
[20:02] <@NCommander> So, couple of notes 
[20:02] <@NCommander> I *hate* to put htis limitation 
[20:02] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i'm paying $79/month :/ 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> matt: eek 
[20:02] <@NCommander> But US citizens, nations, and lawful permament residents only 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> ah 
[20:03] <@matt_> that's a pretty serious limitation. 
[20:03] <@NCommander> matt_, the problem is running afoul another countries laws 
[20:03] <@mrcoolbp> yeah, for a group of global volunteers 
[20:03] <@matt_> did the accountant recommend that? 
[20:03] <@NCommander> No, this is personal experience 
[20:03] <@NCommander> For example, France requires you to be incorporated there if you hire more than X people 
[20:03] <+prospectacle> Hiring people is good if you've got lots of money. Prizes are good if you don't. 
[20:03] <@NCommander> prospectacle, most prize giveaways are limited 
[20:03] <@NCommander> Prize laws are scary 
[20:03] <@NCommander> And I mean scary scary 
[20:04] <+prospectacle> ok, 
[20:04] <@NCommander> There are a lot of legal redtape to make sure you aren't ripping people off, there's a reason most giveaways say: 
[20:04] <@NCommander> Void in Florida, New York, California, North Dakota 
[20:04] <@matt_> NCommander, i wonder if we really even need to 1099 someone if we are just saying: "submit your story on topic X, and if we accept it, we will pay you 50USD" 
[20:04] <@matt_> it's basically a straight sale. 
[20:05] <@matt_> they're not performing a service, they're just selling us their product. 
[20:05] <@NCommander> matt_, Right, but if we wanted to send someone to a conference (i.e., linux.com.au), and recoup expenses 
[20:05] <@NCommander> I don't see it as a sale 
[20:05] <@NCommander> I doubt the IRS would either 
[20:05] <@matt_> Yeah, that makes sense. 
[20:06] <@NCommander> If we 1099 people, our asses our covered 
[20:06] <@NCommander> If someone doesn't file their 1099s with the IRS, well, I hate to say it, thats there problem 
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> s/our/are/ 
[20:06] <@NCommander> Looping back to the international regulation bit 
[20:06] <@NCommander> Its also more complicated, since its reveune derived from US soil 
[20:06] <@NCommander> Which means even folks working for us internationally would have to file with the IRS 
[20:07] <@NCommander> I *honestly* don't see how we could pay anything who isn't able to work in the United States at least in the immediate future 
[20:07] <@matt_> yeah. perhaps we should keep it simple for now, and expand to international contractors after we have an accountant and lawyer engaged. 
[20:07] <@NCommander> Yeah 
[20:07] <@NCommander> I think realistically 
[20:07] <@NCommander> We'd need a presense in the EU 
[20:08] <@matt_> it really seems like getting original articles, interviews, etc. on the site in the near term could help bring in more users... 
[20:08] <@NCommander> Its going to be a huge PITA, one we want to deal with, but "Not Enough Vespen Gas" 
[20:08] <@NCommander> It appears we had a spike w/ that congressional article 
[20:08] <@matt_> Really!? 
[20:08] <@NCommander> Our UIDs registered shot up, I have't looked at piwik 
[20:08] <juggs> perhaps give the option for the contributor to select to have their payment made to a charity of choice within the US? 
[20:09] <@NCommander> juggs, ... that honestly could work 
[20:09] <@NCommander> And if its a 501(c)(3), thats a tax rightoff for us 
[20:09] <@NCommander> *write-off 
[20:09] <juggs> avoids the int'l transfers hell 
[20:09] <@matt_> NCommander, unless that gets us into donation-solicitation-registration issues? 
[20:09] * matt_ is not sure 
[20:10] <@NCommander> RIght 
[20:10] <@NCommander> I think the international thing is too complicated 
[20:10] <@NCommander> We can take things pro-bono 
[20:10] <@NCommander> And perhaps be able to offer those people positions first if/when we can get them in internationally 
[20:10] <@NCommander> Until then, unfortunately, we're going to have to limit it to those who legally reside in the United States 
[20:11] <@NCommander> (I think the definition is "has a social security number that allows them to work") 
[20:11] <@matt_> so, to articulate a plan: shall we 1. see how much we bring in from subscriptions, and 2. figure out if there is a budget to pay for original articles, etc.? 
[20:11] <@mrcoolbp> it's a pity, but it's a large portion of our users methings 
[20:11] <@NCommander> Site statistics disagree with you 
[20:11] <@NCommander> I think 2/3rds are US based 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> 2/3rds counts as a large portion NCommander 
[20:12] <@matt_> The next point is somewhat related, so shall we move on to: Item 6e. pay editors, developers, et al. or maintain all as volunteers at least until we are more sure about our finances? 
[20:12] <@NCommander> Well, I'd like to look at researching doing crowdfunding 
[20:12] <@NCommander> A lot of people woul dlike to donate to us, which for legal reasons we can't do (yet) 
[20:12] <@NCommander> But if a third-party does it for us, we're in the clear 
[20:13] <@matt_> that sounds good. 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:13] <@NCommander> The catch is reveune raised this was is "pure income", its going to get taxed to hell and back 
[20:13] <@NCommander> Furthermore, learning from site stats 
[20:13] <@NCommander> We're a pretty insural group 
[20:13] <@NCommander> We have very little inbound traffic from third parties 
[20:13] <@matt_> oh, don't worry, we'll spend it, so there will be no net income :) 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: also they take a portion of the "winnings" so-to-speak 
[20:14] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, for indiegogo, its 4% + %5 if you fail to meet your goal 
[20:14] <@NCommander> (you keep what you raise regardless) 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> okay 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> that's not too bad 
[20:14] <@NCommander> If you're a 501(c)(3), you get a discount, but thats not an option for now 
[20:14] <@NCommander> The problem is promotion 
[20:15] <@matt_> Ok, so the final "upcoming expenditures" item is: Item 6f. reimburse start-up costs or issue stock? 
[20:15] <@NCommander> I prefer the former 
[20:15] <@NCommander> Easier, and saner 
[20:15] <@matt_> the issue is the following: 
[20:16] <@matt_> i don't think that we want to get into the situation of signing up a bunch of subscribers, and then spending all of that money to reimburse ourselves, leaving the site broke. 
[20:16] <@NCommander> WOrk out a payment plan, and just pay it back in small installments 
[20:16] <@matt_> if we sign up 200 people within the next couple of months, that's $4000 USD, which doesn't even cover our start-up costs. 
[20:16] <@NCommander> My concern w/ stock is legal stickiness, and we need a provision to have the board to buy back at a later date 
[20:16] <@matt_> so i actually have a template for that :) 
[20:17] <@NCommander> .... 
[20:17] <@NCommander> I *really* shouldn't be suprised 
[20:17] <@matt_> i think that the way to think about stock is: 
[20:17] <@NCommander> if we go stock, its common stock 
[20:17] <@NCommander> Not preferred 
[20:17] <@mrcoolbp> yes agreed 
[20:17] <@matt_> Our Certificate of Incorporation _only_ allows common stock. = ) 
[20:17] <@NCommander> Indeed 
[20:17] <@matt_> it would have to be amended to allow Preferred. 
[20:18] <@NCommander> I just don't want to accidently sell the corporation :-P 
[20:18] <@matt_> hah! 
[20:18] <@matt_> i like to think of it more like: the company is printing its own money... 
[20:18] * NCommander refuses to make the related Futurama joke about toliet paper 
[20:18] <@matt_> so, if we issue stock in exchange for "prior tangible and intangible contributions", then we don't have to reimburse. 
[20:19] <@matt_> we can build in a buy-back agreement or anything else we want. 
[20:19] <@matt_> it's just another contract = ) 
[20:19] <@matt_> this one is only 4 pages of solid legalese =) 
[20:20] <@NCommander> I'm thinking more tax considerations on this, stock holders would have to pay capital gains tax (since the stock, as issued now) is worthless 
[20:20] <@matt_> no capital gains tax if you elect an exemption under section 83(b) = ) 
[20:20] <@NCommander> .... you researched this way too much 
[20:21] <@matt_> i made sure to research ways to avoid paying capital gains tax, for sure! 
[20:21] * NCommander coughs 
[20:21] <@NCommander> We could always pay for news articles with stock 
[20:21] * NCommander ducks 
[20:21] <@matt_> why don't i send around the template for your consideration? 
[20:22] <@NCommander> Alright, though I'm still iffy on issuing any 
[20:22] <@matt_> thankfully, we already have all of the stockholder provisions in the bylaws, so it shouldn't take too much paperwork. 
[20:22] <@NCommander> My understanding was the provision for stock mostly existed to let us sell ourselves to the still theorical NFP parent organization 
[20:22] <@matt_> anyway, something to think about, but I just wanted to bring it up... 
[20:23] <@NCommander> Agreed 
[20:23] <@matt_> ...since it's a way to avoid paying thousands of dollars. 
[20:23] <@matt_> ok. 
[20:23] <@matt_> Now: Item 7. Open the floor to discussion of any other pressing issues: Amending the bylaws to include community involvement, SN's policy on Editorial Independence, Amend the Bylaws for IRC meetings, SSL certificates/domain, linode accounts... 
[20:23] <@NCommander> So, let's take it from the top 
[20:24] <@matt_> go for it :) 
[20:24] <@NCommander> I think we need a formal bylaw to make sure we can do IRC board meetings 
[20:24] <@matt_> that was taking it from the middle :) 
[20:24] <@NCommander> That was the first thing on the list :-P 
[20:24] <@matt_> nope, it's the 3rd :) 
[20:24] <@NCommander> Oh, brainfart 
[20:24] <@NCommander> Ok 
[20:24] <@matt_> anyway, i can draft an amendment to that effect, and circulate it. 
[20:24] <@NCommander> Ahem 
[20:25] <@NCommander> RIght, so lets action item matt_ on that 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> second 
[20:25] <@matt_> got it! 
[20:25] <@NCommander> Amending the bylaws for community involvement 
[20:27] <@matt_> how happy are we with our current voting system? 
[20:27] * mrcoolbp ducks 
[20:27] <@matt_> :) 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> I'm hesitent to bind us to requiring the community to make any decisions, but we should at least get their opinions and consider them in many cases 
[20:27] * prospectacle suggests meta.soylentnews.org 
[20:28] <@matt_> i'm sure they'll understand as long as we tell them "we are listening" 
[20:28] * matt_ ducks 
[20:28] <@mrcoolbp> prospectacle: meta.sn is already in the works 
[20:28] <+prospectacle> mrcoolbp++ 
[20:28] <Bender> karma - mrcoolbp: 8 
[20:29] <@matt_> so, this is one of the few things that i don't have a template for. we are venturing into uncharted waters. 
[20:29] <@mrcoolbp> Something like: "Whenever applicable, the community should be informed of and included in decision-making" 
[20:30] <@matt_> perhaps we should throw it to the community? "How would you like to be involved?" 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> perhaps 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> I imagine a lot of ducking on my part due to vote-jokes will be required 
[20:31] <@matt_> perhaps this is a chance to be bold! 
[20:32] <@matt_> that was my only idea. 
[20:32] <@mrcoolbp> how far through the agenda are we matt_? 
[20:32] <@matt_> this is the last item :) 
[20:32] <@matt_> and the hardest. 
[20:33] <@matt_> (not the last sub-item, of course :) 
[20:33] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[20:33] <@matt_> it would be good to have some kind of plan on this. 
[20:33] <@matt_> other than just "think about it some more", you know? 
[20:34] * mrcoolbp is waiting for NCommander to chime in on this one 
[20:34] <@matt_> oh, i know! since NC owes the community a mega-post on incorporation, he can include a question about how the community wants to be involved! 
[20:34] <@mrcoolbp> that's a good idea 
[20:34] <@NCommander> Damn it 
[20:34] <@NCommander> I DCed silently 
[20:34] <@NCommander> Last message I saw was five minutes ago 
[20:34] <@NCommander> <matt_> how happy are we with our current voting system? 
[20:35] <@NCommander> * NCommander hears load crickets 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> *loud 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> I think we still all have scars from the name vote 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> Furthermore, the biggest reason we didn't have a problem w/ sockpuppets and such is we more or less sprung it on the community w/ little warning 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> We're going to figure out a more robust system of voting which to the extent possible weeds out sock puppets, dupes, etc. 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> And intergrates into slashcode 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> I did a bit of work on this, but got sidetracked. Its not trivial, and going to be a rite PITA 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> I think this is more approiate as a longer term goal, we're not going to be able to solve this meeting, and I think its probably going to require a couple of NCommander posts to the community to resolve how we want to handle this 
[20:35] <@NCommander> <NCommander> What it boils down to though, is the community rep position MUST NOT be a "in name only thing", a lot of organizations do stuff like this, but limit the power of those so the corporate interests always win 
[20:35] <@NCommander> * NCommander remembers this from OpenSolaris, and other projects 
[20:36] <@matt_> <matt_> oh, i know! since NC owes the community a mega-post on incorporation, he can include a question about how the community wants to be involved! 
[20:36] <@NCommander> That works 
[20:36] <@mrcoolbp> that's a good idea 
[20:36] <@matt_> that seems like an easy next step. 
[20:36] <@matt_> great! 
[20:36] <@NCommander> I think I got rate limited 
[20:36] <@NCommander> I'll take that action item 
[20:37] <@matt_> which brings us to: SN's policy on editorial independence 
[20:37] <@matt_> this is a very important issue for any serious publisher, i think. 
[20:37] <@NCommander> Which brings us to the age-old debate on if SN should just cover tech news, or be more general 
[20:38] <@mrcoolbp> I suggest we involve the community on that decision = ) 
[20:38] <@matt_> right. and also, who makes the final editorial decisions. 
[20:38] <@NCommander> We probably need a "Chief Editoral Officer" or something 
[20:38] <@matt_> in other words, putting it in writing that the editors have actual final say on what gets published. 
[20:38] <@NCommander> Indeed 
[20:38] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:38] <@matt_> ok. i can draft something to that effect. 
[20:39] <@NCommander> We need a formal policy on it, and we also need a formal policy to handle retraction/corrections 
[20:39] <@matt_> it doesn't really need to be in the bylaws, just the SN policy manual or something. 
[20:39] <@matt_> yep. 
[20:39] <@NCommander> Sooner or later, we're going to post something that's wrong, retracting it can go a long way to avoid the libel suit 
[20:39] <@matt_> and a policy on user complaints, banning, etc, etc. 
[20:39] <@mrcoolbp> TOS/EULA/Privacy policy? 
[20:39] <@NCommander> We've got a lot of stuff to draw a formal policy from on that 
[20:40] <@matt_> yeah. although we want to keep it simple enough that people will actually read it and understand it. 
[20:40] <@NCommander> SO I probably shouldn't write it :-) 
[20:40] <@matt_> hah! 
[20:40] <@mrcoolbp> rofl 
[20:41] <@NCommander> Pretty sure I'm approaching war and peace in terms of wordcount on the site 
[20:41] <@matt_> ok. why don't i draft a section on editorial independence for the new SN Policy manual, and then we can regroup and figure out what other sections are needed? 
[20:41] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[20:41] <@NCommander> We should get the editoral team looped into that discussion 
[20:41] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:41] <@matt_> absolutely. 
[20:42] <@NCommander> Lets not make it in a vaccum, if anything, when we do it, it blows up in our face 
[20:42] <@NCommander> (subscriber 1.0 post anyone?) 
[20:42] <@mrcoolbp> ? 
[20:42] <@matt_> NCommander is still traumatized from that. 
[20:42] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, the first post about subscription ideas :-), which I tempted fate by saying "not-expecting-pitchforks dept" 
[20:43] * mrcoolbp is thinking we should have invited other staff to this meeting 
[20:43] <@NCommander> I was expecting, TBH, something a bit more businessnessy, less policy 
[20:43] <@NCommander> Though our attempts to organize site meetings have tended to end in abysmal failure 
[20:44] <@matt_> ok, so last sub-item of the last item is "SSL certificates/domain, linode accounts" 
[20:44] <@NCommander> That's a big one 
[20:44] <@NCommander> SO, right now, all the site assets are registered in various names (some of them likely false) 
[20:44] <@matt_> so another reason that i wanted to bring up the reimbursement vs. stock issue is: 
[20:44] <@matt_> if we go with the stock option, the "transfer of tangible and intangible property" is built in. 
[20:45] <@matt_> so it gets taken care of in that way. 
[20:46] <@NCommander> Make sure your stock proposal explains that bit :-) 
[20:46] <@NCommander> But right now, we need to get all the site assets under the name of the business, as well as tabulate and figure out current debts 
[20:47] <@NCommander> I'd like to know how deep the hole we're in is 
[20:47] <@matt_> yeah. who else currently owns important site assets? 
[20:47] <@matt_> in other words: who else owns anything that SN would be interested in owning? 
[20:47] <@NCommander> So, I believe I have the Linode's, and you (matt_) has the domains 
[20:48] <@NCommander> Ownership of the logo is unknown 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> correct, I can email frogblast and try to get an answer on that 
[20:48] <@matt_> if that's it, then it's pretty simple, relatively speaking. 
[20:48] <@NCommander> We're unsure who submitted the name originally, but given its not trademarked, and it was proposed for the very purpose of creating the site, I think we're in the clean 
[20:48] <@NCommander> *clear 
[20:49] <@mrcoolbp> yeah I have a first name only on that one 
[20:49] <@mrcoolbp> I could dig it up on the wiki if need be... 
[20:49] <@NCommander> Given that this was a proposal for creating the site vs. altslashdot, honestly, I'm not hugely concerned on it 
[20:50] <@NCommander> Its pretty cut and dry IMHO, "we need a name, submit ideas here", and we use it 
[20:50] <@matt_> ok, so shall we re-state our todo lists before we adjourn? 
[20:50] <@matt_> i have 4 items: 
[20:51] <@matt_> 1. Email template combined stock and property-transfer agreement. 
[20:51] <@matt_> 2. Draft and email amendment to Bylaws to allow IRC board meetings. 
[20:52] <@matt_> 3. In collaboration with the editorial team, draft an "editorial independence" section of the SN Policy Manual. 
[20:52] <@matt_> 4. Record the minutes of this meeting, and get confirmation from Michael and Ben by email of the votes that were taken. 
[20:53] <@NCommander> How about set next meeting date 
[20:53] <@NCommander> How frequently do we want to do these? 
[20:53] <@matt_> could do if you want, or we could just do it by email, etc. 
[20:53] <@matt_> it's just nice to have as much advance notice as possible :) 
[20:53] <@NCommander> Well, do we want to do monthly, biweekly, or weekly? 
[20:54] <@NCommander> Or something more arcane, like on every full moon :-P 
[20:54] <@matt_> i think that we will need to have another one before too long to tie up the loose ends from this meeting. 
[20:54] <@NCommander> How about a week from now, same time, same place? 
[20:54] <@matt_> say in a week or so? it kind of depends on our progress... 
[20:55] <@NCommander> It will be a quick meeting if not much has happened 
[20:55] <@NCommander> This one was just long since we had to confirm the officers 
[20:55] <@matt_> yeah, i can do one week from today at 7pm EST. 
[20:55] <@NCommander> I can do one week from today 4pm AKDT 
[20:56] <@mrcoolbp> hmm, I'm not 100% on it, I'll have to get back to you gusy 
[20:56] <@mrcoolbp> guys* 
[20:56] <@NCommander> Let's call it tentative meeting, assuming mrcoolbp can make it 
[20:56] <@mrcoolbp> okay 
[20:56] <@NCommander> if not, we can reschedule, I'm fairly flexible 
[20:56] <@NCommander> THough I'm without home internet until Thursday 
[20:56] * NCommander says bad things about GCI :-P 
[20:56] <@matt_> ok. 
[20:57] <@matt_> NCommander, how are you going to live without internet? 
[20:57] <@NCommander> matt_, I moved into a starbucks 
[20:57] <@matt_> i see :) 
[20:57] <@NCommander> Which is why I DCed, had to fill out the nag screen again 
[20:57] <@matt_> so, anything else for this meeting? 
[20:57] * NCommander has been commuting to and from starbucks all week 
[20:57] <@NCommander> :-) 
[20:58] <@NCommander> Oh 
[20:58] <@NCommander> One thing 
[20:58] <@NCommander> We should post minutes to the wiki, and I"ll summarize them into the "we're incorporated" post 
[20:59] <@matt_> ok. so, as Secretary, i am supposed to record the proceedings of this meeting. 
[20:59] <@mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Staff_Meetings 
[20:59] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, probably want a new section, Board Meetings 
[20:59] <@matt_> which means that I will print out a copy of this log, and put it in a safe :) 
[20:59] <@mrcoolbp> k 
[20:59] <@NCommander> Staff Meetings are site internal stuff 
[20:59] <@NCommander> matt_, I can give you an admin bit on the wiki so you can protect pages 
[21:00] <@matt_> cool. 
[21:00] <@NCommander> matt_, let me know when you make a wiki account and I'll bless it 
[21:00] <@matt_> will do! 
[21:01] <@matt_> ok. anything else (for the official board meeting)? 
[21:01] <@NCommander> Proposal: Close the meeting 
[21:01] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[21:01] <@matt_> All those in favor of adjourning? 
[21:01] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[21:01] <@matt_> Aye! 
[21:01] <@NCommander> Aye! 
[21:01] <@matt_> The first Meeting of the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC stands adjourned! 

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - July 16, 2014

2016-10-11T21:37:43Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
<- Back to [[SoylentNews_PBC_Board_of_Directors|Board of Directors]]

[23:08:02] <matt_> Ready to call to order today's meeting of the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC?
 [23:08:09] <matt_> First, a reminder that until we adopt an amendment to the bylaws to allow board meetings on IRC, a conservative interpretation of our bylaws suggests that actions that we take here should be unanimous and followed up with an email confirmation to ensure that said actions are binding. Addressing this with an amendment to the bylaws is an item on the agenda for today's meeting.
 [23:08:17] <matt_> On that note, so far, I only have 5 items for today's agenda:
 [23:08:22] <matt_> 1. Review the minutes of the last meeting.
 [23:08:26] <matt_> 2. Updates on progress towards financial stability (bank and payment-processor accounts, subscriptions, swag).
 [23:08:30] <matt_> 3. Discuss remaining issues related to setting up the corporation (amending the bylaws to allow meetings on IRC, stock proposal, etc.).
 [23:08:34] <matt_> 4. Any other business (community involvement in corporate governance, SN policies and procedures manual, including: staff appointment & authority, account and password management, individual team policy, policy on retaining records, etc.).
 [23:08:37] <matt_> 5. Adjourn.
 [23:08:41] <matt_> Any objections to this agenda or any items to add (remember that items can be added later at any point)?
 [23:08:56] <NCommander> No objections here
 [23:09:04] <Bytram> none here
 [23:09:06] <mrcoolbp> no objections
 [23:09:13] <matt_> Great! First up, Item 1: Review the minutes of the last meeting.
 [23:09:17] <matt_> At the last meeting, the Board adopted 7 resolutions:
 [23:09:22] <matt_> Resolved: The Certificate of Incorporation and Bylaws are hereby ratified in their current form.
 [23:09:25] <matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the President of SoylentNews PBC.
 [23:09:29] <matt_> Resolved: Michael Casadevall is the Chief Executive Officer of SoylentNews PBC.
 [23:09:33] <matt_> Resolved: Ben Prentice is the Treasurer of SoylentNews PBC.
 [23:09:41] <matt_> Resolved: Matt Angel is the Secretary of SoylentNews PBC.
 [23:09:45] <matt_> Resolved: The Board authorizes opening a business checking account at Bank of America in the name of the Corporation.
 [23:09:50] <matt_> Resolved: The Board authorizes opening a PayPal account in the name of the Corporation.
 [23:09:54] <matt_> Several other items were discussed, but no other votes were taken.
 [23:10:00] <matt_> The logs of the last meeting are available here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
 [23:10:07] <matt_> Any comments or shall we move on to: Item 2: Updates on progress towards financial stability (bank and payment-processor accounts, subscriptions, swag)?
 [23:10:13] -!- rand [rand!~rand@jsx-671.76-725-78.nts-online.net] has joined #staff
 [23:10:33] <xlefay> Are the non-voted on issues outlined specifically? Or just in the log itself?
 [23:10:43] <matt_> just in the log at the moment.
 [23:10:55] <NCommander> We probably need to define a standardized format of minutes
 [23:10:56] <xlefay> A suggestion: It may be wise, to make a table with a list of resolved items and unresolved/not-voted-on items after this meeting.
 [23:10:56] <Bytram> I have one thing
 [23:11:11] <xlefay> NCommander, said it better than I did. :)
 [23:11:12] <matt_> NCommander, i have a template for that :)
 [23:11:13] <Bytram> was there any consideration given to a bank *other* than Bank of America
 [23:11:27] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: yes
 [23:11:30] <matt_> Bytram, a fair amount of consideration, yes.
 [23:11:42] <Bytram> I personally have nothing against them, but wanted to ensure others were considered.
 [23:11:49] <NCommander> there was quite a few reasons to go with BoA, and some against
 [23:11:53] <Bytram> I'm good then, thanks!
 [23:11:59] <xlefay> Are those considerations also outlined somewhere? Or also in the logs?
 [23:12:01] <NCommander> BUt the pros outweighed the cons
 [23:12:20] <matt_> xlefay, a number of the considerations are in the logs, several came up in irl meetings.
 [23:12:20] <NCommander> xlefay, I think the pro/con didnt make it into the log fully, that was mostly RL meetings we had last month
 [23:12:39] <Bytram> I did not see any discussion in the logs
 [23:12:52] <xlefay> I realizes, there's a lot of "documentational" work here, perhaps, we should standardize such templates as well, even though it can be somewhat of a pain to document those things - they might be useful for future references?
 [23:13:02] <NCommander> ^- that
 [23:13:05] <matt_> Bytram, i think the logged discussion related mainly to the availability of branches in different locations.
 [23:13:07] <xlefay> (from this point forward)
 [23:13:25] <mattie_p> hey folks, sorry I'm late
 [23:13:30] <mrcoolbp> that's okay
 [23:13:38] <mrcoolbp> wb
 [23:13:43] <mattie_p> thanks
 [23:13:59] <Bytram> in light of the foregoing, I propose an agenda item for discussing a standard "format" for board meetings
 [23:14:56] <matt_> added to Item 4.
 [23:15:05] <matt_> Ok, getting back to the agenda:
 [23:15:07] <xlefay> In addition a question, how much time has been allocated to this meeting? Has there been a predefined length or?
 [23:15:13] <Bytram> matt_: thank-you.
 [23:15:21] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: we did not alot a timeslot
 [23:15:31] <matt_> xlefay, we were very self-disciplined last time, and kept it to 2 hours, despite having a lot to go over.
 [23:15:44] <matt_> xlefay, i think that sounds like a reasonable maximum.
 [23:15:59] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, thanks. In the future, we should also keep that in mind. So everyone can schedule accordingly.
 [23:16:10] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: noted, thank you.
 [23:16:12] <xlefay> I agree, anyway, please do go on. Don't want to hold things up.
 [23:16:21] <matt_> Ok, back to Item 2: Updates on progress towards financial stability (bank and payment-processor accounts, subscriptions, swag).
 [23:16:26] <Bytram> IIRC, our very *first* staff meetiong also lasted approximately two hours.
 [23:16:31] <matt_> Since the last meeting, we opened a business checking account at Bank of America and a paypal account, and set them up to receive payments.
 [23:16:37] <matt_> mrcoolbp and I have debit cards, which we can use to pay for hosting, etc., as soon as funds are available.
 [23:17:04] <NCommander> I've gone through ALL the old receipts and compiled an initial set of books when I fired off to mrcoolbp
 [23:17:19] <mrcoolbp> I can confirm all of that
 [23:17:22] <NCommander> so we know roughly how deep the hole is, and who owns which parts of it
 [23:18:00] -!- matt__ [matt__!~4c77e8d9@f-09-442-560-040.hsd9.ma.comcast.net] has joined #staff
 [23:18:06] -!- matt__ has quit [Changing host]
 [23:18:06] -!- matt__ [matt__!~4c77e8d9@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #staff
 [23:18:09] <xlefay> .voice matt_
 [23:18:09] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
 [23:18:25] <mrcoolbp> ?
 [23:18:32] <mrcoolbp> .voice matt_
 [23:18:32] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
 [23:18:38] <mrcoolbp> .voice matt_
 [23:18:38] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
 [23:18:43] <xlefay> .voice matt__
 [23:18:43] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt__] by juggler
 [23:18:45] <matt__> thanks
 [23:18:48] <matt__> Comments? Otherwise we can move on to: subscriptions: NCommander, were you and paulej72 able to make any headway on the backend?
 [23:19:03] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: do you have a rough summary of where we stand financially?
 [23:19:08] <mrcoolbp> yes
 [23:19:14] <NCommander> .op
 [23:19:14] -!- mode/#staff [+o NCommander] by juggler
 [23:19:15] -!- mode/#staff [-m #staff] by NCommander
 [23:19:21] <NCommander> to hell with that
 [23:19:28] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'll let you take those two questions
 [23:19:30] <paulej72> I was busy with the irc migration and did not work on that
 [23:20:00] <NCommander> Real life kinda derailed for me, miniminal progress
 [23:20:17] <mrcoolbp> okay so no progress on the Subscription Code
 [23:20:23] <NCommander> Sorry :-/
 [23:20:25] <matt__> ok, is that still a top priority?
 [23:20:27] <mrcoolbp> Ncommander: summary of financials?
 [23:20:36] <NCommander> Give me a sec, let me fire up gnucash
 [23:20:52] -!- matt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
 [23:21:03] <NCommander> ... still firing up gnucash
 [23:21:18] <NCommander> So, as of today
 [23:21:38] <NCommander> We're $3,217.58 USD in the hole.
 [23:21:46] <mrcoolbp> that's what I have as well
 [23:21:53] <matt__> that sounds about right.
 [23:22:19] matt__ is now known as matt_
 [23:22:25] <NCommander> Dividing on money in v. money out, most of that is owed to Matt, at a toal value of $2,484, and $833 to me.
 [23:22:31] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: are subscriptions a top business priority right now?
 [23:22:45] <NCommander> I believe so, they are, as they say, low hanging fruit
 [23:22:52] <mrcoolbp> great
 [23:23:05] <matt_> Ok, next is swag: mrcoolbp, how goes it?
 [23:23:09] <mrcoolbp> okay
 [23:23:23] <mrcoolbp> So we have a mock-up of the store setup
 [23:23:34] <mrcoolbp> techincally things can be purchased right now
 [23:23:49] <mrcoolbp> But there was a small hangup on the Tagline "...is people"
 [23:23:59] <matt_> mrcoolbp, do you want to add additional designs/items before going live?
 [23:23:59] <mrcoolbp> I wanted to resolve that here before we move forward
 [23:24:07] <matt_> ok, good point.
 [23:24:14] <xlefay> Could we get a preview/screenshot of said mock-up? So we can visualize it?
 [23:24:22] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: sec
 [23:24:27] <mrcoolbp> matt_: at the very least I'd like to spend a few hours on setting it up proper
 [23:24:37] <mrcoolbp> especially after we resolve the tagline issue
 [23:24:47] <mrcoolbp> (I think that's it for my update)
 [23:24:55] * mrcoolbp goes to get the screenshot
 [23:25:04] <xlefay> And what kind of "swag" are we selling? Like, t-shirts, hats, usb sticks?
 [23:25:11] <Bytram> Given the pent-up demand, I would prefer a couple extra day's time to get it solid before opening us up for potential troubles
 [23:25:12] <xlefay> planning on selling*
 [23:25:20] <paulej72> also I suggested we needed to add the url to the design as well
 [23:25:25] <mrcoolbp> ^^^
 [23:25:36] <matt_> so, my opinion of the tagline issue is: 1. it seems very unlikely that anyone will complain, 2. if we do get a letter or communication from someone who is unhappy with us using the tagline, we can probably work something out with them, and 3. since we aren't warehousing huge amounts of merchandise, it wouldn't be too difficult to change it later.
 [23:25:39] <xlefay> Perhaps, a QR code or something similar would also be benefitial considering most people have a smart phone?
 [23:26:27] <mrcoolbp> Screenshot of the 1st draft of the store: http://imgur.com
 [23:26:29] juggs|afk is now known as juggs
 [23:26:44] <xlefay> Where's the bacon++?! (hah)
 [23:26:53] <mrcoolbp> !todo bacon++ items
 [23:26:53] <Bender> todo item 22 added
 [23:27:01] <matt_> mrcoolbp, what are your thoughts on the tagline issue?
 [23:27:06] <NCommander> so we proceed w/ the tagline?
 [23:27:09] <NCommander> as is?
 [23:27:21] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I'm not well versed on the issue, I'll defer to your understanding of it
 [23:27:25] <xlefay> I think that looks amazing. Are there also plans on selling USB-sticks with SoylentNews stamped logo's? As for the tagline, SoylentNews .. is people!
 [23:27:26] <Bytram> Is this the proper time/place to discuss the *particulars* of the SWAG items? I'd suggest wse just recognize the need for the discussion, and if need be, have someone volunteer to lead the discussion and report back.
 [23:27:40] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: I have it noted, I just haven't gotten there
 [23:27:59] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: the tagline issue yes
 [23:28:06] <mrcoolbp> which items we are offering no
 [23:28:24] <xlefay> Bytram, I concur. That would seem like the most logical course of action, to set up a task force for it, and have the taskforce deal with the selection of items in the store.
 [23:28:29] <matt_> Bytram, the board just needs to make sure that we don't decide on something that places the corporation at unnecessary legal risk.
 [23:28:29] <Bytram> I fully agree. thanks. What is the potential issue with the tag line?
 [23:28:42] <mrcoolbp> matt_, NCommander: I will get to fleshing out the store ASAP, it will be on the top of my todo
 [23:28:47] <mattie_p> Bytram: probably copyright or trademark infringement from the movie
 [23:28:54] <matt_> mrcoolbp, sounds good!
 [23:29:05] <matt_> Next, Item 3: Discuss remaining issues related to setting up the corporation (amending the bylaws to allow meetings on IRC, stock proposal, etc.).
 [23:29:06] <NCommander> mattie_p, that was my concern
 [23:29:17] <matt_> unless there are any remaining swag issues...
 [23:29:22] <Bytram> yes
 [23:29:41] <Bytram> are we self-hosting the swag store; shipping, billing and all that?
 [23:29:41] <mrcoolbp> = /
 [23:30:03] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: negative, we went with a 3rd party solution due to resource constraints
 [23:30:03] <matt_> Bytram, the swag store is on CafePress.
 [23:30:21] <Bytram> do they get a cut of the sales, and if so, how much?
 [23:30:27] <xlefay> Bytram, matt_, perhaps, a task force for dealing with those items would be the best? Then, that taskforce can make recommendations to the staff and/or board?
 [23:30:29] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: self-hosting and shipping ourselves would take a huge amount of work
 [23:30:37] <matt_> Bytram, oh, that's a really good point. We need to decide on the markup.
 [23:30:49] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: of course they do, they set a base price and we set markup
 [23:30:50] <xlefay> Regarding, whether we oursource things, what items are in the store, etc.
 [23:31:03] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: I *fully* agree on self-hosting being work-intensive.
 [23:31:06] <matt_> xlefay, that is a good idea too. my understanding is that mrcoolbp is currently leading that task force.
 [23:31:17] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: I would love a taskforce on the specifics, I can make the rest happen
 [23:31:28] <mrcoolbp> any volunteers?
 [23:31:37] <xlefay> matt_, I see. Than I suggest, we wait till mrcoolbp and his team (which he'll assemble) make a recommendation.
 [23:31:48] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, count me in. I would be delighted to help out!
 [23:32:10] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: I'll send you an email, and send one out to staff soliciting other volunteers
 [23:32:14] <matt_> xlefay, that sounds good to me. shall we aim for about a week from today? does that sound reasonable?
 [23:32:26] <mrcoolbp> okay, any other swag issues? NCommander: are we okay with going WITH the tagline for now?
 [23:32:45] <xlefay> matt_, I believe that question is supposed to be targeted to mrcoolbp, since it's his taskforce :-)
 [23:32:50] <mrcoolbp> matt_ we can have a store ready-to-go in 7 days, yes
 [23:32:51] <Bytram> I have a question on how the task force will report back... e-mail to staff@soylentnews.org? Post it on the wiki? How?
 [23:33:02] <NCommander> Ulitmately, I'm worried about us getting sued out of existence for it since we'd be directly profitting
 [23:33:12] <NCommander> On the other hand, Soylent (food product) exists and hasn't been sued so ...
 [23:33:12] <mattie_p> re Tagline: I'm searching the USPTO and there are two live trademarks on soylent, one for the food and one by WB
 [23:33:21] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: I'll make the final decisions availalble on the staff list
 [23:33:35] <xlefay> Bytram / mrcoolbp , I suggest, we make one or multiple wiki pages, in which we'll disclose our findings and our recommendations. And then send that link to the staff.
 [23:33:39] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: that's great! thank you very much!
 [23:33:52] <NCommander> so, assuming we accept this as acceptable risk
 [23:33:56] <NCommander> I don't have an issue with it
 [23:34:10] <matt_> ok. ready to move on?
 [23:34:17] <mrcoolbp> I am
 [23:34:17] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, that'll allow us to, also be open regarding our process and the particular details. Thoughts?
 [23:34:21] <Bytram> was there a vote here?
 [23:34:28] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: great, let's discuss that later
 [23:34:37] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, agreed. :)
 [23:34:39] <NCommander> Bytram, vote on what?
 [23:34:39] <mrcoolbp> = )
 [23:34:46] <xlefay> moving on then ;-)
 [23:34:57] <matt_> <+matt_> Next, Item 3: Discuss remaining issues related to setting up the corporation (amending the bylaws to allow meetings on IRC, stock proposal, etc.).
 [23:35:04] <matt_> First, amending our Bylaws to allow meetings on IRC. (For those not here for the last meeting, our Bylaws may or may not allow meetings on IRC, but the Board can still take "action without a meeting" as long as it is unanimous and in writing.)
 [23:35:05] <mrcoolbp> (matt_ Bytram is wondering if that issue required a vote)
 [23:35:16] <Bytram> we have agenda items, and it would be good to note whenever we finish an item, what the conclusion/result was
 [23:35:35] <matt_> mrcoolbp, oh. Bytram, to be safe the board should authorize the opening of the store, when it is ready.
 [23:35:45] <Bytram> EXACTLY!
 [23:35:56] <mrcoolbp> matt_ that works for me (Bytram we aren't "ready" yet)
 [23:35:57] <matt_> Bytram, yes. so far, we have just been noting when we finish agenda items that require a vote.
 [23:36:34] <matt_> Bytram, one of the benefits of a 3-person board is that we don't have to worry too much about sticking to the details of parlimentary procedure :)
 [23:36:38] <Bytram> matt_: I have been at too many meetings where there has been lots of disussion
 [23:36:43] <xlefay> matt_, regarding item #3, I think allowing meetings on IRC is fine, but I do believe we should have a format for doing so. It can get quite complicated, multiple conversations running at once, etc. So we'll need to prevent that.
 [23:36:59] <Bytram> and when the meeting was over, it was unclear who was doing what by when
 [23:37:05] <xlefay> (e.g. focussing on one thing at a time)
 [23:37:18] <matt_> xlefay, yes. however we decide to do it, i strongly suggest that we confirm any decisions made at a meeting immediately after the meeting via email.
 [23:37:28] <mrcoolbp> ^^
 [23:37:34] <NCommander> xlefay, we need to fix the bylaws to formally allow it, kinda an oversight >.<;
 [23:37:54] <matt_> so i was hoping that we could vote on that amendment at this meeting.
 [23:38:00] <matt_> Shall we take a vote on amending the Bylaws to allow meetings on IRC?
 [23:38:03] <xlefay> NCommander, I understand. I'm just suggesting we discuss what kind of format before we do so.
 [23:38:26] <xlefay> Otherwise, we'll allow it, but there's no proper format to do so, and things can get messy down the road, which isn't what we want.
 [23:38:55] <NCommander> point taken
 [23:39:22] <matt_> Any objections to voting on the issue of whether to allow board meetings on irc?
 [23:39:24] <Bytram> these are the corporate bylaws that I reviewed a few weeks ago?
 [23:39:30] <matt_> Bytram, correct.
 [23:39:38] <Bytram> okay, thanks.
 [23:39:47] <xlefay> Just out of curiosity. This is already a board meeting, and yet, it isn't formally allowed by, the bylaws? That seems rather odd, lol
 [23:40:00] <matt_> exactly why i suggest we vote to fix that =)
 [23:40:07] <mrcoolbp> matt_ no objections, can we add discussion of meeting format as another topic?
 [23:40:17] <xlefay> matt_, the only objection I have is, that we first define a format to have such meetings, when we have that, I see no objection, not from me at least.
 [23:40:31] <matt_> xlefay, our bylaws allow "action without a meeting", by unanimous written consent of the board.
 [23:40:36] <mrcoolbp> ^^^
 [23:40:36] <xlefay> Then again, I'm not even sure if I'm on the board as it stands so.... rather confused about that ;)
 [23:40:45] <xlefay> I see, that's cool.
 [23:40:49] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: you are not currently on the board
 [23:40:54] <Bytram> so there are two questions here... (1) whether or not to allow board meetings on IRC, (2) what changes are required in the bylaws to support said change
 [23:40:55] <xlefay> ah I see
 [23:41:03] <matt_> mrcoolbp, added to Item 4.
 [23:41:05] <mrcoolbp> thanhks
 [23:41:42] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: that would be the change
 [23:41:55] <matt_> ok, so i have prepared a question for the vote. if we are ready to vote, i can pose the question :)
 [23:42:01] <mrcoolbp> NComander: shall we vote on item #3?
 [23:42:19] <NCommander> lets have the question specifically written up then vote
 [23:42:28] <xlefay> (just one question, as this is a board meeting, or at least, sort-of, does staff opinion/vote weigh in or?)
 [23:42:41] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: that's why you are here
 [23:43:09] <matt_> NCommander, i have a question written up, which I can present if you are ready to vote on it. Of course, you can vote "No" if you don't like the wording...
 [23:43:13] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, cool, just making sure. The "board meeting" subject in the e-mail implied it was for the board, but since I'm not on said board, I got a tiny bit confused.
 [23:43:14] <mattie_p> Query: If the board isn't sure it can have meetings on IRC: will a vote taken in an IRC meeting be valid?
 [23:43:16] <mrcoolbp> you don't get to vote (unless you are on the board) but we are hearing opinions for sure
 [23:43:19] <Bytram> from my reading of the bylaws, the community is invited to attend and to voice their views so that the board can make an informed decision.
 [23:43:32] <matt_> xlefay, staff opinion certainly weighs in, but only the current Directors may vote by law.
 [23:43:39] <mrcoolbp> mattie_p "action without a meeting"
 [23:43:51] <mrcoolbp> mattie_p technically this "isn't a board meeting"
 [23:43:56] <mrcoolbp> as I understand it
 [23:44:10] <matt_> mattie_p, from the logs of our last meeting:
 [23:44:11] <matt_> First: Our simple bylaws do not specifically allow board meetings over irc :( and we had less than the required 2 business days notice of this meeting :( but that's ok because we can take action without a meeting according to Article III, Section 11: "Action without a Meeting" :)
 [23:44:17] <matt_> This works as long as "all members of the Board of Directors [...] consent thereto in writing or by electronic transmission, and such writings or electronic transmissions are filed with the records of the meetings of the Board of Directors", because "Such consent shall be treated as a valid and proper vote of the Board of Directors or committee thereof for all purposes".
 [23:44:21] <matt_> So, long-story short, any decisions that we make here need to be unanimous to be binding. We can change this by voting to amend the bylaws during this meeting, if you want, or we can leave that for later.
 [23:44:39] <mattie_p> mrcoolbp, matt_ thanks for the clarification
 [23:44:46] <mrcoolbp> np
 [23:44:58] <Bytram> thanks for the clarification
 [23:45:10] <mrcoolbp> okay: move to vote on #3
 [23:45:12] <xlefay> matt_, thanks for the full explanation & clarification. It's much appreciated. Anyway, I suggest we just move to the vote.
 [23:45:26] <matt_> cool. NCommander, ready?
 [23:45:44] <NCommander> Call the vote
 [23:45:49] <matt_> All those in favor of amending the Bylaws of the Corporation to allow meetings of the Board of Directors to be held on IRC, such that any votes taken at such a meeting shall be confirmed after said meeting by email to the Secretary of the Corporation to be binding and effective, (or, in the event that such a meeting would be unlawful, to amend the Bylaws of the Corporation to allow the Board of Directors to take action without a meeting, such that
 [23:45:53] <matt_> Aye!
 [23:46:02] <NCommander> aye
 [23:46:02] * mrcoolbp reads
 [23:46:05] <NCommander> wait
 [23:46:08] <NCommander> where the rest of it
 [23:46:14] <mrcoolbp> such that...
 [23:46:14] <NCommander> "such that ..."
 [23:46:25] <matt_> please stand by :)
 [23:46:57] <matt_> it was too long :(
 [23:47:06] <matt_> ok, a 2-parter. please stand by :)
 [23:47:15] <xlefay> I cannot, as a staff member, agree with such an amendment unless, a format is first declared. So that, meetings on IRC will be properly structured and be sound. That's, my take on it anyway...
 [23:47:26] <xlefay> but, feel free to ignore that hehe :P
 [23:47:43] <NCommander> xlefay, the format doesn't need to be locked in the bylaws
 [23:47:46] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: a discussion on the format is forthcoming already
 [23:48:00] <xlefay> NCommander, true, but it should be declared (say, on the wiki)
 [23:48:05] <matt_> All those in favor of amending the Bylaws of the Corporation to allow meetings of the Board of Directors to be held on IRC, such that any votes taken at such a meeting shall be confirmed after said meeting by email to the Secretary of the Corporation to be binding and effective, (or, in the event that such a meeting would be unlawful, to amend the Bylaws of the
 [23:48:09] <matt_> Corporation to allow the Board of Directors to take action without a meeting, such that any such action shall require the vote of a majority of the Directors then in office, confirmed by email to the Secretary of the Corporation, to be binding and effective):
 [23:48:29] <NCommander> xlefay, and it will be, but this is just fixig the bylaws so we can formally do it on IRC at all
 [23:48:52] <Bytram> matt_: question....
 [23:49:00] <NCommander> matt_, still seems bifuricated, stuff it on pastebin.com or something
 [23:49:10] <NCommander> or maybe xchat being stupid
 [23:49:11] <Bytram> are we over-specifying by mentioning "IRC"...
 [23:49:13] <NCommander> I see the whole thing now
 [23:49:21] <matt_> Bytram, it is complete.
 [23:49:24] <mrcoolbp> bytram: no
 [23:49:37] <matt_> i meant NCommander :)
 [23:49:54] <paulej72> does this till have the x days stuff in effect
 [23:50:12] <matt_> Bytram, what other means would you envision wanting to use for a board meeting?
 [23:50:22] <xlefay> NCommander, mrcoolbp, I have full faith in the board and the staff, but.. this is binding so I generally feel safer if something is first declared/written up/proposed before it is decided, just to avoid misunderstandings and the likes later on. This is just me "playing it safe", feel free to disregard it
 [23:50:34] <matt_> paulej72, the final text will have to be approved via email.
 [23:50:42] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: it's been duly noted
 [23:50:52] <mrcoolbp> I'm gonna vote:
 [23:50:54] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
 [23:51:03] <Bytram> so, IRC and *ONLY* IRC? No other real-time chat-type system would be permitted. i don't know of any specific alternative off-hand, but it is an *instance* of a *class* of communication tools.
 [23:51:05] <matt_> xlefay, paulej72, the issue is that normally, this would be attached to an email or presented at a meatspace meeting, etc.
 [23:51:16] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: we can always ammend later.
 [23:51:43] <NCommander> Bytram, this is for regular BoD meetings, special meetings can be in any formal, meatspace or virtual space
 [23:51:54] <matt_> Bytram, if we wanted to use an alternative means, it would be easy to amend the bylaws again.
 [23:51:56] <xlefay> Also, I suggest, that, those decisions are only binding if they are, indeed, properly documented.
 [23:52:07] <Bytram> NCommander: like a conference call? If so, I'm good then.
 [23:52:10] <NCommander> and if we're going to move those somewhere else, we should have to vote on it
 [23:52:17] <xlefay> (with of course, those predefined templates)
 [23:52:18] <Bytram> agreed.
 [23:52:22] <NCommander> Bytram, that's already explicately allowed by the current bylaws
 [23:52:28] <matt_> xlefay, thus the "shall be confirmed after said meeting by email" line.
 [23:53:09] <xlefay> matt_, I meant, on a public forum - since, we are for the public benefit? Say, the wiki? Of course, I understand if there are exceptions to certain decisions.
 [23:53:18] <Bytram> NCommander: yes, I'd forgotten about that temporarily. thanks for the reminder. I'm good.
 [23:53:24] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: please bring that up at the format discussion
 [23:53:47] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, will do. Just figured I'd lay it out there, for possible amendment into the amendment itself.
 [23:53:58] <matt_> xlefay, we are posting the minutes on the wiki. Once we have an actual official meeting (if we amend the bylaws to allow such a thing over IRC, for example), the minutes will be placed on the wiki in a standard format, i would think.
 [23:54:28] <NCommander> anyway, Aye
 [23:54:34] <mrcoolbp> Aye
 [23:54:45] <xlefay> matt_, that's good - but shouldn't that be a requirement, for the sake of completeness? (forgive my questions, just ensuring I fully understand)
 [23:54:50] <matt_> hah! to the question 50 lines up :D let me restate it:
 [23:54:59] <matt_> All those in favor of amending the Bylaws of the Corporation to allow meetings of the Board of Directors to be held on IRC, such that any votes taken at such a meeting shall be confirmed after said meeting by email to the Secretary of the Corporation to be binding and effective, (or, in the event that such a meeting would be unlawful, to amend the Bylaws of the
 [23:55:04] <matt_> Corporation to allow the Board of Directors to take action without a meeting, such that any such action shall require the vote of a majority of the Directors then in office, confirmed by email to the Secretary of the Corporation, to be binding and effective):
 [23:55:09] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
 [23:55:11] <matt_> Aye!
 [23:55:18] <NCommander> Aye
 [23:55:20] <matt_> Resolved.
 [23:55:25] <matt_> Great! I will circulate the text of the amendment for final approval once I have it ready.
 [23:55:41] <NCommander> yay
 [23:55:44] <matt_> Now, on to the proposal for issuing common stock to NCommander and myself to facilitate the transfer of assets from us to the Corporation without placing the Corporation in debt.
 [23:55:53] <matt_> Did you guys have a chance to review the document that I sent? If so, what did you think of it? Would you like me to recap the purpose/benefits of this proposal?
 [23:56:05] <mrcoolbp> yes please
 [23:56:14] <matt_> To recap, this agreement accomplishes the following:
 [23:56:18] <NCommander> briefly, not sure, yes
 [23:56:19] <matt_> 1. SoylentNews acquires all rights to its own accounts, data, domains, etc., which are currently owned by Michael and myself.
 [23:56:24] <matt_> 2. SoylentNews gets long-term liabilities for start-up costs off of its books (i.e., SN is not in debt to anyone). If, once SN is financially stable, we wanted to reimburse start-up costs, the board could authorize the payment of a dividend, etc.
 [23:56:27] <matt_> 3. The agreement provides a mechanism for us to contribute some cash directly to SN, which would allow SN to start directly paying for hosting, etc., thus minimizing accumulation of personal expenses for which we would later want to seek reimbursement. If this is of interest, we should discuss the amounts of cash that we would want to contribute. I included $700 for me as an example in the attachment.
 [23:56:32] <matt_> 4. Tax implications are minimal because there are no restrictions that will lapse (e.g., vesting). If we wanted to include a vesting schedule, we would include that in a separate shareholder's agreement, which would be a bit more complicated (although I do have a template). This would then likely require the 83(b) election that I mentioned in our last meeting, unless we decided to impose vesting restrictions later.
 [23:56:37] <matt_> 5. If the same number of shares are issued to Michael and to me, then there will be no change in authority relative to the current situation with a 3-member board that includes the two of us. For example, it would not be possible to accidentally sell the corporation to DICE, as both Michael and I would have to agree to such a sale :)
 [23:56:47] <matt_> i think that's pretty much it. =)
 [23:57:30] <xlefay> I think that speaks for itself.. as a non-board member, let me just say "aye"
 [23:57:35] <mrcoolbp> heh
 [23:57:50] <Bytram> matt_: is this *common* stock or *capital* stock?
 [23:57:55] <mrcoolbp> common
 [23:57:59] <matt_> Bytram, those two are the same thing for us :)
 [23:58:06] <mrcoolbp> oh
 [23:58:17] <matt_> Bytram, our Certificate of Incorporation doesn't allow us to issue Preferred Stock or any other kind of capital stock.
 [23:58:31] <Bytram> ahhhhh, got it now. thanks!
 [23:58:37] <NCommander> I admit I'm still concerned about possible tax stuff on both a personal and corporate level
 [23:59:13] <NCommander> I'm willing to investigate further (I needo to talk w/ my accountant), and perhaps have things lined up for a formal yay/nay next meeting
 [23:59:20] <matt_> NCommander, the key with this is: if we want to do it, we should do it before the stock has any value, otherwise it gets more complicated.
 [23:59:31] <mrcoolbp> = /
 [23:59:33] <NCommander> Well, that's going to take awhile
 [23:59:41] <NCommander> with making sure we have proper provisions in allowing the PBC to buy itself back
 [23:59:51] <mrcoolbp> yes, agreed
 [00:00:27] <mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_: it's true that we don't currently have a revenue stream, but we do have plans in place to start that going
 [00:00:31] <Bytram> NCommander: I'm not so sure about how long it would take; between subscriptions and swag, we could be in the black in a few weeks.
 [00:00:52] <matt_> normally this type of agreement is done within 2-3 days of incorporation :/
 [00:01:05] <Bytram> NOTE: *could* not necessarily *will*.
 [00:01:12] <matt_> to eliminate any possibility that the stock has increased in value between incorporation and issuance.
 [00:01:27] <matt_> NCommander, when can you talk with your accountant?
 [00:01:53] <NCommander> probably this week
 [00:02:27] <matt_> ok. i know that you're planning a trip soon, do you think it would be realistic to try to sqeeze in a meeting before then, at least on this issue?
 [00:02:45] <NCommander> My concern with issuing stock of any kind is it means that part of the corporation isn't owned by itself. Lets say a year from now, we're in the black you have got stock though for the site
 [00:03:07] <NCommander> And then hit a personal issue like bankruptecy and sell assets to a third part :-P
 [00:03:08] <Bytram> can the board agree now to have the corporation issue stock, contingent on NCommander's discussion with his accountant and acceptance of it?
 [00:03:27] <matt_> NCommander, oh, this is a key point. The Board of Directors has to approve all transfers of stock.
 [00:03:28] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I don't beleive they can be sold to a third party
 [00:03:34] <mrcoolbp> ah that
 [00:03:37] <matt_> NCommander, so you're not allowed to sell it without board approval.
 [00:03:43] <matt_> that's in our bylaws.
 [00:03:58] <NCommander> ALright
 [00:04:15] <NCommander> I'm willing to approve a tentative approval to make sure I'm not upsetting a legal mess
 [00:04:29] * NCommander hopes that made sense
 [00:04:31] <matt_> approve a tentative approval :?
 [00:04:32] <paulej72> so what happens if someone does sell it. is the stock void?
 [00:04:43] <matt_> paulej72, the sale is null and void.
 [00:04:50] <paulej72> ok
 [00:04:51] -!- SirFinkus has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
 [00:05:08] <NCommander> matt_, basically, make it hinge on me talking taxes w/ my personal accountent, and if he doesn't see any issues for my person issue, ACK
 [00:05:25] <juggs> could a majority of board members cause the bylaw that forbids the sale of stock to be removed?
 [00:05:33] <matt_> ok. i can adjust my pre-prepared voting language to that effect.
 [00:05:43] <matt_> juggs, yes.
 [00:05:45] <NCommander> juggs, yes
 [00:05:46] <mrcoolbp> juggs: yes
 [00:05:55] <NCommander> wow, echo
 [00:06:03] <juggs> ha
 [00:06:07] <juggs> I hear ya!
 [00:06:27] <matt_> ok, please stand by for a vote. of course, let me know if you have any questions/issues with the following language.
 [00:06:34] <matt_> this is a long one :)
 [00:06:45] <matt_> All those in favor of authorizing the officers of the Corporation to sell and issue 50,000 shares of the Corporation's Common Stock to Michael Casadevall at a purchase price of $0.10 per share, payable in cash, or by any other form of consideration permitted by applicable law, including the contribution of tangible property, and authorizing the officers of the Corporation to sell and issue 50,000 shares of the Corporation's Common Stock to Matt Ang
 [00:06:49] <matt_> payable in cash, or by any other form of consideration permitted by applicable law, including the contribution of tangible property, and resolving that the form of the Founder's Common Stock Subscription Agreement be, and hereby is, adopted, ratified and approved, and that the sale and issuance of Common Stock to each of the above named persons shall be conditioned upon the receipt by the Corporation of (a) the purchase price for said stock and (b)
 [00:06:53] <matt_> Agreement, including executed copies of any and all documents attached thereto as exhibits, and that the officers of the Corporation be, and each of them hereby is, authorized and directed, for and on behalf of the Corporation, to take such further action and execute such additional documents as each may deem necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this resolution:
 [00:07:44] <mrcoolbp> matt_ are we getting message truncation again?
 [00:07:49] <mattie_p> looks like you missed a few words in there
 [00:07:55] <matt_> mrcoolbp, i think that came through.
 [00:08:04] <matt_> mattie_p, let me triple-check.
 [00:08:05] <mattie_p> matt_: your name didn't
 [00:08:09] <Bytram> first paragraph, your name is incomplete
 [00:08:25] <Bytram> matt_: ^^
 [00:08:28] <paulej72> flood control
 [00:08:39] <matt_> *sigh
 [00:08:40] * juggs quickly files a change of name to Matt Ang
 [00:08:46] <juggs> :D
 [00:08:49] <matt_> ok, trying again :)
 [00:09:10] <paulej72> paste in smaller chunks
 [00:09:16] <NCommander> matt_, pastebin.com or something similar is your friend
 [00:09:19] <paulej72> submit between each
 [00:09:37] <matt_> All those in favor of authorizing the officers of the Corporation to sell and issue 50,000 shares of the Corporation's Common Stock to Michael Casadevall at a purchase price of $0.10 per share, payable in cash, or by any other form of consideration permitted by applicable law, including the
 [00:09:44] <matt_> contribution of tangible property, and authorizing the officers of the Corporation to sell and issue 50,000 shares of the Corporation's Common Stock to Matt Angel at a purchase price of $0.10 per share,
 [00:09:50] <matt_> payable in cash, or by any other form of consideration permitted by applicable law, including the contribution of tangible property, and resolving that the form of the Founder's Common Stock Subscription Agreement be, and hereby is, adopted, ratified and approved, and that the sale and
 [00:11:24] -!- matt__ [matt__!~4c77e8d9@f-09-442-560-040.hsd9.ma.comcast.net] has joined #staff
 [00:11:35] <matt__> Agreement, including executed copies of any and all documents attached thereto as exhibits, and that the officers of the Corporation be, and each of them hereby is, authorized and directed, for and on behalf of the Corporation, to take such further action and execute such additional
 [00:11:40] <matt__> documents as each may deem necessary or appropriate to carry out the purposes of this resolution:
 [00:12:15] <paulej72> .op
 [00:12:15] -!- mode/#staff [+o paulej72] by juggler
 [00:12:34] <matt__> paulej72, i was flood-controlled :(
 [00:12:43] <NCommander> matt_, pastebin is your friend, seriously
 [00:12:46] <xlefay> matt__, hence why pastebin is suggested :)
 [00:12:47] <NCommander> Its easier to read
 [00:12:48] <juggs> missed a bit again around here "issuance of Common Stock to each of the above named persons shall be conditioned upon the receipt by the Corporation of (a) the purchase price for said stock and (b)"
 [00:12:49] <mrcoolbp> .voice matt__
 [00:12:49] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt__] by juggler
 [00:13:00] <matt__> NCommander, ack. ok, pastebin next time, definitely!
 [00:13:29] <matt__> anyway, i think everyone has the jist of it :)
 [00:13:32] <NCommander> matt__, 50k shared is > what either of us owe though
 [00:13:36] <NCommander> *shares
 [00:13:38] <matt__> so, we can just do the final text over email.
 [00:13:49] <matt__> NCommander, it's at $0.10 per share.
 [00:14:01] <NCommander> 50000*.10 == 5000
 [00:14:05] -!- matt_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
 [00:14:05] <juggs> $5K each?
 [00:14:07] <matt__> NCommander, we have to value our "Tangible and Intangible Property" in a way that the IRS, etc. will accept.
 [00:14:11] <mattie_p> up to 50,000 shares are authorized to be sold, don't have to sell them all
 [00:14:19] <NCommander> oh
 [00:14:19] <matt__> so, for example, your contributions to date add up to a total value of $5000.
 [00:15:01] matt__ is now known as matt_
 [00:15:10] -!- matt_ has quit [Changing host]
 [00:15:10] -!- matt_ [matt_!~4c77e8d9@Soylent/Staff/Management] has joined #staff
 [00:15:10] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by irc.sylnt.us
 [00:15:10] -!- mode/#staff [-v matt_] by juggler
 [00:15:26] <mrcoolbp> .voice matt_
 [00:15:26] -!- mode/#staff [+v matt_] by juggler
 [00:15:48] <matt_> Ok, so the last remaining step to get the Corporation officially set up is: I will collect all of the resolutions adopted by the board so far, including language for amending the Bylaws to allow meetings on IRC, and put together a "Unanimous Written Consent of the Board of Directors" document, which the three of us should sign.
 [00:16:18] <mrcoolbp> okay
 [00:16:24] <NCommander> k
 [00:16:26] <matt_> Finally, Item 4: Any other business (community involvement in corporate governance, SN policies and procedures manual, including: staff appointment & authority, account and password management, individual team policy, policy on retaining records, etc.).
 [00:16:37] <matt_> NCommander, how's your incorporation post going?
 [00:17:20] <matt_> i ask, because i think that it would be nice to post the bylaws, etc. on the wiki, so that everyone can see them...
 [00:17:50] <Bytram> matt_: point of order? was there a vote taken on the issuance of common stock?
 [00:17:58] <mrcoolbp> negative
 [00:18:10] <matt_> Bytram, due to technical issues, we will go with an email vote for that one, i think.
 [00:18:22] <NCommander> matt_, its going very slowly
 [00:18:30] <NCommander> I got about a 1/3rd through it
 [00:18:30] <matt_> Bytram, since it didn't seem that there were any questions (unless i missed any).
 [00:18:43] -!- mode/#staff [-v bryan] by juggler
 [00:18:55] <Bytram> matt_: okay, thanks.
 [00:19:42] <matt_> NCommander, also at the last meeting we had mentioned that your post would be a geat place to ask the community specifically how they would like to be involved in the governance of SoylentNews PBC.
 [00:20:12] <mrcoolbp> yes, please throw that in there somewhere
 [00:20:17] <matt_> let us know if you need any help with that, ok?
 [00:20:32] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, its in there
 [00:20:35] <NCommander> alright
 [00:20:36] <mrcoolbp> great
 [00:20:37] <matt_> Next is the SN policies and procedures manual.
 [00:20:38] <NCommander> *already
 [00:20:43] <mrcoolbp> On the Policy manual I have an update
 [00:21:14] <mrcoolbp> Janrinok and I started drafting an SN Policy manual based on conversations with LaminatorX and matt_
 [00:21:35] <mrcoolbp> once we have something readable, the plan is to circulate on the staff list for suggestions and criticisms
 [00:22:08] <mrcoolbp> matt_ can you elaborate on "staff appointment & authority
 [00:22:10] <mrcoolbp> ?
 [00:22:43] <matt_> mrcoolbp, actually, i think that you probably already have that in there. basically, how does someone become "staff", and what authority do staff have.
 [00:22:59] <mrcoolbp> oh, part of the policy manual got it
 [00:23:00] <mrcoolbp> okay
 [00:23:03] <mrcoolbp> account and password management: We have done a decent job of duplicating privledges and passwords on various accounts
 [00:23:15] <mrcoolbp> but I think we need to do a once over on each account
 [00:23:28] <mrcoolbp> I can work with paulej72 on making sure that is done
 [00:23:43] <mrcoolbp> I think 3 people should be able to access each system
 [00:24:09] <mrcoolbp> but we had discussed locking the keys in a container and needing mulitple people to unlock (food for thought)
 [00:24:30] <matt_> nice. it sounds like you have a good grip on the issue. the question of SN's policy on retaining records came up recently, as well.
 [00:24:35] <paulej72> would like it to be 3 qualified people, but we will tak what we can get
 [00:24:39] <Bytram> mrcoolbp: do we have *one* place which itemizes *all* the (computer) accounts we have? Each system (e.g. Boron), service, DNS entries, *everything*?
 [00:24:42] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: well said
 [00:24:53] <mrcoolbp> Bytram, not compiled, I'll note that
 [00:25:12] <Bytram> great! thank you.
 [00:25:27] <xlefay> We can certainly get records from LDAP, as for local accounts - that'll require some inventorisation.
 [00:25:28] <Bytram> might check with xlefay who has a pretty good list from setting up icinga, too.
 [00:25:33] <mrcoolbp> matt_ that's all I have for now on that item, is now a good time to bring up a point from a staff memeber who couldn't make it?
 [00:25:48] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: noted, thank you!
 [00:26:10] <matt_> mrcoolbp, yes! we have reached the end of the agenda, so let's open the floor.
 [00:26:22] <mrcoolbp> okay
 [00:26:31] <mrcoolbp> <+mechanicjay> I'm wondering about regular meetings, their frequency and I'd like to see 1 weeks notice before future meetings. While that wont' be an idea time, it does give folks a chance to arrange their schedules accordingly.
 [00:26:31] <mrcoolbp> <+mechanicjay> Also, now that incorporation has started, what are the responsibilities of regular old staff folks. Does the relationship between a volunteer staff person and the corporation get formalized at some point?
 [00:26:34] * juggs falls into the shark pool beneath the now open floor!
 [00:26:51] <mrcoolbp> idea = ideal I think
 [00:27:18] <mrcoolbp> the second one I'll add to my SN policy manual draft
 [00:27:38] <mrcoolbp> I have "a template for that"
 [00:27:41] * mrcoolbp winks at matt)
 [00:27:43] <matt_> mrcoolbp, yes, the second one sounds like it would be perfect for the policy draft.
 [00:27:45] <matt_> =)
 [00:28:14] <mrcoolbp> matt_ is one week notice a good goal to shoot for?
 [00:28:29] <matt_> mrcoolbp, as for the first one, it's also related to the policy draft, as it should be made clear that the board meetings are different than the staff meetings, i think.
 [00:28:32] * mrcoolbp notes 2 days is all that is required
 [00:28:52] <mrcoolbp> matt_ if you want I can add a distiction to the manual
 [00:29:03] <matt_> mrcoolbp, this also gets to the issue of electing additional directors, which we can do at any time.
 [00:29:11] <matt_> mrcoolbp, yes please.
 [00:29:13] <mrcoolbp> ah yes, nice segway
 [00:29:17] <mrcoolbp> matt_ noted
 [00:29:37] <matt_> also, i forgot one last item that was added to the agenda: discuss a standard format for board meetings
 [00:29:50] <mrcoolbp> okay, so let's take those one at a time
 [00:30:13] <mrcoolbp> first, are there any board positions that we feel should be fulfilled?
 [00:30:24] <mrcoolbp> matt_ could you recap the common unfilled positions?
 [00:30:33] <xlefay> oops, a bit too late, but... Additionally, when meetings are made in advance, people can easily - suggest topics/items ahead of time.
 [00:30:47] <matt_> mrcoolbp, well there are really two questions there: do we want to elect additional Directors, and do we want to appoint additional officers.
 [00:31:06] <mrcoolbp> matt_ can you elaborate on the difference?
 [00:31:27] <Bytram> I'd appreciate a refresher, too.
 [00:31:32] <matt_> xlefay, actually, wouldn't it be good if there were a wiki where people could raise issues, so that we would be sure to bring them up at the next meeting, whenever that meeting is?
 [00:31:53] <mrcoolbp> matt_ that's a great idea
 [00:31:55] <mattie_p> officers are "official" staff of the corporation, board members vote in these meetings. They do not necessarily overlap, although right now they do
 [00:31:58] <xlefay> matt_, that's a great idea!
 [00:32:31] <Bytram> how would/could they be different?
 [00:32:41] <matt_> mrcoolbp, ok. so directors are directors (they take votes at board meetings, and the board has general responsibility for the corporation), while the officers are President, CEO, Treasurer, Secretary, and any number of Vice Presidents, Assistant Treasurers, Assistant Secretaries, etc., each of whom has specific duties.
 [00:32:57] <paulej72> do we want team leaders to be board members?
 [00:33:05] <matt_> mattie_p, exactly!
 [00:33:08] <mrcoolbp> NCommander ^^
 [00:34:06] <NCommander> paulej72, dev, Ieditoral, community, IRC?
 [00:34:07] <mattie_p> officers run the day to day business of the corporation. board members control the overall direction and appoint officers, but do not make day-to-day operational business decisions
 [00:34:08] <matt_> i would suggest that the officers should be given maximum leeway to discharge their duties, and that the board only step in on specific issues if there is a credible legal or financial issue.
 [00:34:22] <NCommander> ack on what matt_ says
 [00:34:32] <mattie_p> so each of the three board members currently has two hats, if you will
 [00:34:43] <mrcoolbp> matt_ I ACK that as well
 [00:35:17] <paulej72> yes NCommander
 [00:35:35] <juggs> ack as in dislike?
 [00:35:44] <xlefay> ack as in acknowledge I assume
 [00:35:45] <mattie_p> ack = acknowledge
 [00:35:50] <juggs> ty
 [00:35:53] <Bytram> NCommander: and qa, too?
 [00:35:53] <matt_> i would also suggest that the board be kept to a reasonable size to facilitate scheduling, discussion, and voting.
 [00:36:09] <NCommander> Bytram, yes, but I also don't want to overcrowd the board
 [00:36:19] <Bytram> NCommander: noted.
 [00:36:39] <NCommander> I recommend we toss this on chillax or the mailing list, and bring it back up next meeting
 [00:36:54] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: agreed
 [00:36:54] <Bytram> matt_: in your experience, how large is "too big"?
 [00:36:55] <paulej72> and should the board confirm the current team structure or do a restructure if we do make team leaders booard members
 [00:37:20] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: we don't have an outline for the structure in any formal means
 [00:37:32] <mrcoolbp> so I wouldn't feel right confirming that
 [00:37:56] <matt_> Bytram, in the very early stages (e.g., now), it is helpful to keep it to 3, just to keep things moving forward. Pretty soon, i would imagine it could/should be increased, probably to a maximum of 5-ish.
 [00:38:46] <juggs> I d/conned not sure if I missed anything :(
 [00:38:57] <Bytram> matt_: thanks. My experience has been that many more than 6 or so and things take much longer to decide. thanks for the confirmation.
 [00:39:01] <mrcoolbp> juggs: check the log after
 [00:40:04] <matt_> Bytram, agreed. Also, there is a lot on the agenda in these early days, but pretty soon i would expect board meetings to need to happen less frequently, and have fewer major issues to discuss.
 [00:40:28] <mrcoolbp> okay, so should we move on to the Format for Board Meetings on IRC?
 [00:41:17] <matt_> ok. any thoughts?
 [00:41:28] <Bytram> should we discuss that here, and now, or just agree we need one and work itout later?
 [00:41:52] <Bytram> the details of the IRC board meeting, that is
 [00:41:56] <mrcoolbp> maybe get someone on a task force that could propose something for another meeting?
 [00:42:31] <Bytram> I'll take that.
 [00:42:45] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: thanks, I'd suggest working with xlefay
 [00:42:51] <mrcoolbp> okay, anything else?
 [00:42:54] <mrcoolbp> did we miss anything?
 [00:43:52] <Bytram> I can't think of anything off-hand.
 [00:44:11] <matt_> i think that's it. so my tasks (aside from investigating pastebin) are: draft and send a "Unanimous Written Consent of the Board of Directors" that includes the proposed amendment to the bylaws, and everything else that has been decided so far.
 [00:44:29] <NCommander> Mine are bang on the subscription code, and call accountent
 [00:45:24] <mrcoolbp> mine are the policy manual and the store
 [00:45:27] <Bytram> I'll work on a draft format for holding Board Meeting discussions on IRC.
 [00:45:30] * mrcoolbp checks notes
 [00:45:51] <matt_> NCommander, also to finish up your incorporation post?
 [00:45:52] <mrcoolbp> I think that's it
 [00:46:00] <NCommander> oh that too
 [00:46:07] <NCommander> Beyond that, anything else, or can we close this ot?
 [00:46:12] * NCommander really kinda needs to lie down :-/
 [00:46:15] <matt_> All those in favor of adjourning?
 [00:46:26] <Bytram> NCommander: I can help with the incorporation post
 [00:46:28] <NCommander> aye
 [00:46:29] <mrcoolbp> Aye!
 [00:46:30] <matt_> Aye!
 [00:46:32] <matt_> This Meeting of the Board of Directors of SoylentNews PBC stands adjourned!
 

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - August 26 2014

2016-10-11T21:37:14Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
[19:07] <+mrcoolbp> Call to order the Action without a meeting 
[19:08] == FunPika [~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 
[19:08] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, no, this is a schedued meeting 
[19:08] <+NCommander> no? 
[19:08] <+mrcoolbp> 1st Agenda item: Transfer of ownership 
[19:08] <+matt_> not until we get the bylaws amended... 
[19:08] <+matt_> NC^ 
[19:08] <+NCommander> fun 
[19:08] <+NCommander> ok 
[19:08] <+mrcoolbp> who wants to start? 
[19:08] <+mrcoolbp> the floor is open 
[19:09] <+NCommander> I want to sell stuff 
[19:09] <+NCommander> ^- tat 
[19:09] <+NCommander> 8THAT 
[19:09] <+NCommander> of or the love of 
[19:09] <+NCommander> *o for the 
[19:09] * matt_ seconds selling stuff 
[19:10] * mrcoolbp thirds 
[19:10] <+NCommander> yay 
[19:10] <+NCommander> But ok, serious side now 
[19:10] == FunPika [~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #staff 
[19:10] == mode/#staff [+v FunPika] by juggler 
[19:10] <+NCommander> I keep wondering if we're not overthinking this on a watchdog thing. if we, the board, go evil, the staff will desert us 
[19:10] <+NCommander> We already evicted one leader 
[19:10] <+mrcoolbp> agreed 
[19:11] <+matt_> NCommander, that went somewhat less than _smoothly_ 
[19:11] <+NCommander> matt_, indeed, but thats because I asked Barrabas to privately check his math, then he decided I won't pay and opened it up tp the community 
[19:13] <+NCommander> I ust keep thinking about audioguys position 
[19:13] <+NCommander> I kow I meant to write this up as well, and I'm sorry for failing in that 
[19:14] <+NCommander> matt_, I don't want to kill this discussion until we have a properl resolution 
[19:14] <+NCommander> But at the very least, I'd like to allow the site to start making money and not be hamstrung on us giong in circles 
[19:15] <+NCommander> so if we defer the stock issuance, how badly does it get later? 
[19:15] <+mrcoolbp> good question, I don't understand the specifics of "it will get complicated to issue stock after we make money" 
[19:15] <+NCommander> right now, ownership really is only a problem with the CA 
[19:16] <+matt_> NCommander, to answer your question: we could open the store now. 
[19:16] <+matt_> NCommander, you're right, the CA is really the only major sticking point at this moment. 
[19:16] <+mrcoolbp> (and open subscriptions) 
[19:16] <+NCommander> matt_, we've gone thus far w/o 
[19:16] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, correct. 
[19:16] <+matt_> NCommander, it's a calculated risk on a few levels. 
[19:17] <+NCommander> matt_, risk to start selling stuff, or risk to issue stock later? 
[19:17] <+matt_> If either you or I go nuts in the interim, the site would have little recourse. 
[19:18] <+NCommander> matt_, I've been locked in 10 hours of meetings on this subject for the last two weeks 
[19:18] <+matt_> NCommander, well, also, if we did want to issue stock later, it could likely work out without much modification. 
[19:18] <+NCommander> matt_, if you go nuts, we need a new business guru, and if I go nuts, I'm not sure we're stable enough to survive the transition 
[19:19] <+matt_> NCommander, exactly :) 
[19:19] <+matt_> how badly do we need a wildcard cert? 
[19:20] <+NCommander> matt_, its blocking nexus support, i.e., meta.soylentnews.org. 
[19:20] <+NCommander> But we can active the feature, and disable the subdomains for now 
[19:20] <@paulej72> and would be nice to have for paypal payments 
[19:21] <+NCommander> Or accept users will get an SSL certificat error on nexuses, SSLis wonky on the site 
[19:21] <+mrcoolbp> so it's definate nice-to-have, but not absolutely necessary 
[19:21] <+NCommander> bingo 
[19:22] <+NCommander> we've wanted it for a few months now 
[19:22] <+matt_> NCommander, we could do a separate agreement just to enable that, but that kind of gets into the "patchwork of separate agreements" thing i mentioned on that wiki page i made about our different options... 
[19:22] <+NCommander> matt_, well, even as we're setup you couldn't get a wildcard 
[19:22] <+NCommander> due to the fact WHOIS stuff is fucked up 
[19:22] <+matt_> yeah, we would have to fix that. 
[19:22] <+mrcoolbp> You two both offered to donate your assets to the Corp, is that still an option 
[19:22] <+mrcoolbp> ? 
[19:23] * NCommander is 
[19:23] <+matt_> that is an option. 
[19:23] <+NCommander> won't speak for matt_ though 
[19:23] <@paulej72> need to transfer domain to out Gandi account 
[19:23] <+mrcoolbp> I'm sure we could work on paying you back eventually 
[19:23] <@paulej72> our 
[19:23] <+NCommander> I'd like to propose one thing right now 
[19:23] <+NCommander> Can we open the store/subscription/other now? 
[19:23] <+NCommander> As a motion 
[19:23] <+mrcoolbp> okay 
[19:23] <+matt_> i'm ok with that. 
[19:23] <+mrcoolbp> sec 
[19:24] <+mrcoolbp> Move to vote on this, any seconds? 
[19:24] <+matt_> second 
[19:24] <+NCommander> second 
[19:24] <+mrcoolbp> Vote: Should we Open up the Soylent Swag Store and Subscriptions to all users? 
[19:24] <+matt_> Aye! 
[19:24] <+NCommander> aye 
[19:24] <+Blackmoore> aye 
[19:24] <+mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:25] <+NCommander> finally 
[19:25] <+NCommander> money plz 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> motion passes 0/0/3 
[19:25] <+matt_> yay! 
[19:25] <+NCommander> I'll take the action item to write up shit tomorrow with mrcoolbp 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> okay, I'll write up a post about the store and let NCommander post it maybe 
[19:25] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, if you want to write up the store, I'll write up scripts 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> perfect 
[19:25] <+NCommander> er 
[19:25] <+NCommander> subs 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> yeah 
[19:25] <+NCommander> Post tomorrow 
[19:25] * NCommander can't write now 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> that works 
[19:25] <+NCommander> will be gibberish 
[19:25] <+mrcoolbp> excellent 
[19:26] <+mrcoolbp> so any other items we'd liek to address now? 
[19:26] <@paulej72> do we want to keep subs at $20/year? 
[19:26] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, yes, but its something I honestly can't keep my brain focused 
[19:26] <+NCommander> paulej72, that was what was proposed, so unless we got a good reason to change it 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> NCommander, paulej72, matt_ the other thing we discussed is having some kind of token-thing people could buy for $whatever dollars 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> like a super-star 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> or unobtanium sig or something 
[19:27] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, thats something that could be rolled out later 
[19:27] <@paulej72> mrcoolbp: that is a subscription. lets not complicate this 
[19:27] <+mrcoolbp> okay 
[19:28] <+NCommander> We have a plan 
[19:28] <+NCommander> lets execute it 
[19:28] <+mrcoolbp> Sure! 
[19:28] <+NCommander> Lets not change it when the captain is almost literialy asleep at the switch 
[19:28] <+mrcoolbp> okay, so NCommander: are you moving to adjourn then? 
[19:28] <+NCommander> I am 
[19:28] <+NCommander> Sorry guys 
[19:28] <+NCommander> I really am struggling to stay up 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> I understand, I was like that yesterday night 
[19:29] <+NCommander> and if its another3 hour meeting, there might be blood 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> matt_: any final things? 
[19:29] <+matt_> this was the shortest board meeting i've ever had :) 
[19:29] <+matt_> that is all. 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> lol 
[19:29] <+NCommander> matt_, new policy, NCommander has to be half asleep for these 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> yes it was 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> okay, then I second NCommanders motion. 
[19:29] <+mrcoolbp> All in favour of adjourning? 
[19:29] <@paulej72> not enough time to get board :( 
[19:30] <+NCommander> We'll sell a book called "Sleepwalking to discuss" 
[19:30] <+NCommander> though if I wake up, and find this all to be a dream, you might hear a scream 
[19:30] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, aye 
[19:30] <+mrcoolbp> aye 
[19:30] <+matt_> Aye! 
[19:30] <+NCommander> Great 
[19:30] <+NCommander> good night

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - August 21 2014

2016-10-11T21:36:49Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
[19:05] <+Bytram> anyone here for the staff meeting? 
[19:05] <+Bytram> NCommander: ^^ 
[19:05] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: ^^ 
[19:05] <+Bytram> matt_: ^^ 
[19:05] <+matt_> i'm here. 
[19:06] <+Bytram> matt_: i! 
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> I'm here 
[19:06] * NCommander is here 
[19:06] <+Bytram> matt_: hi! 
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> yay 
[19:06] * NCommander just demolished a pizza nd is feeling fat 
[19:06] <+Bytram> hi everyone! 
[19:06] <+Bytram> looks like we have quorum? All present and accounted for. 
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ saw your email a few minutes ago 
[19:06] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, kewl! 
[19:07] * Bytram checks email 
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> For those that didn't, it suggested apointing a special memeber of the board that could veto the board's decision on behalf of the community 
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> however 
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> while that's a really cool idea and I think we should look into it 
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> it doesn't solve the issue of "permanent" control by stockholders 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> that being said, I'd really like to get this thing settled ASAP 
[19:08] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, it's true, the idea there was to have an elected community advocate, and unelected stockholders... 
[19:08] <+Bytram> mrcoolbp: thanks for the summary! 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> no prob 
[19:09] <+matt_> Bytram, to expand on mrcoolbp's summary: 
[19:09] <+Bytram> so, would someone like to pose the agenda for tonight's meeting? 
[19:09] <+Bytram> matt_: oops, go ahead 
[19:10] <+Bytram> .op 
[19:10] == mode/#staff [+o Bytram] by juggler 
[19:10] == Bytram changed the topic of #staff to: Board meeting currently in progress 
[19:10] <+matt_> I suggested that we could do the following 3 things at the same time to address the board-accountability issue brought up yesterday: 
[19:10] <+matt_> 1. increase the size of the board from 3 members to 5 members. 
[19:10] <+matt_> 2. appoint a "Community Advocate" who could veto board actions on behalf of the community. 
[19:11] <+matt_> 3. issue stock to NC and myself, as previously proposed, to serve as a check on the the board and community advocate. 
[19:11] <+matt_> basically, that's it in a nutshell. 
[19:12] <@Bytram> matt_: thanks for that. 
[19:12] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: honestly, the more we discuss it, the closer I'm leaning to approving the issuance of stock 
[19:12] <@Bytram> questions/discussion? 
[19:12] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: would you enumerate you concerns with it specifically for us one more time? 
[19:12] == xunie-laptop [~xunie@2001:981:9b5e:j:lhzl:hoog:tjs:xyis] has joined #staff 
[19:13] <@mrcoolbp> .voice bryan 
[19:13] == mode/#staff [+v bryan] by juggler 
[19:13] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, indeed 
[19:13] <@mrcoolbp> thanks 
[19:14] == Lagg [~anthony@2600:3c01::ygvs:jmhl:otmp:nsgw] has joined #staff 
[19:15] * mrcoolbp hopes NCommander didn't silently DC again 
[19:15] <+NCommander> My main concern is we're getting a de facto permanent overseer for the board, who has nothing to control or restrain them; since the board can not force a buyback, it is possible that any overseer is there indefinitely. Right now, we might be fine, but there is the possibility that I could go mad and then the future board is stuck w/ me forever 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> sounds about right 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> okay 
[19:16] <+NCommander> This is further compounded by the fact that both matt_ and myself are on the board as of right now, destablizing the board 
[19:16] <+NCommander> Since in effect we weild more power than the rest 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> I think that is a concern 
[19:16] <+matt_> thus the idea of simultaneously increasing the size of the board... 
[19:16] <@mrcoolbp> but I'm honestly less worried about the previous point 
[19:16] <+NCommander> In addition, we're only taking in account fiscial contributions to the site, and not "effort" 
[19:16] <@Bytram> ^^^ 
[19:17] <@Bytram> in reading your summary, I wonder if the solution may be hidden within "since the board can not force a buyback" 
[19:17] <@Bytram> is there some opportunity it modifiying the bylaws to address that, and, if so, do we want to? 
[19:18] <+matt_> Bytram, if the board can eliminate its overseers, it has no oversight... 
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I think we still plan to try to pay the staff something for their time, but as you two have actually put hundreds-thousands of dollars in, the situation is a little different 
[19:18] <@Bytram> matt_: good point. 
[19:19] <+NCommander> The problem is sometimes the watchdog is wrong though 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander is it better without one? 
[19:19] <@Bytram> matt_: so, does that mean it is not a problem that the board cannot force a buyback of shares 
[19:19] <+matt_> NCommander, also why both watchdogs have to agree :) 
[19:19] <@Bytram> iow, can we strike that as a concern and narrow our focus? 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram ^ matter of opinion 
[19:19] <+NCommander> As a note, the board can negate watchdogs merely by issuing additional stock 
[19:19] <+juggs> is it legally possible to get to a state where there effectively are no share / stockholders? i.e. the corp buys back all shares and all board members are simply that 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> and a point of contention 
[19:20] <+NCommander> juggs, that's legally what we are now 
[19:20] <+juggs> true 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: and that is still a possibilty if they actually agree to sell the stock back to us 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> "if" though 
[19:20] <+NCommander> I have to think in worse case scenarios 
[19:20] <+NCommander> That might not be until years from now 
[19:20] <+matt_> juggs, yes, but i think that's a bad situation, as there is then no one to make the board adhere to our purpose of engaging in and promoting free and open journalism... 
[19:21] <+matt_> juggs, basically, the board could turn SN into something completely different. 
[19:21] <@mrcoolbp> except the relatively benevolant board memebers 
[19:21] <+juggs> don't the byelaws or articles of incorporation or w/e provide a way to enforce the mission? 
[19:21] <@mrcoolbp> matt: couldn't the stockholders also do that? 
[19:21] <@Bytram> NCommander: agreed. though things are fine with the current "occupants"... we need to prepare for less benevolent "participants". 
[19:21] <+matt_> juggs, both can be amended/replaced by the board if there are no stockholders :) 
[19:21] <+juggs> ugh 
[19:22] <+NCommander> Ulitamtely, I keep going back to the not-for-profit model 
[19:22] <+NCommander> Where its a self-appointing board in 9 of 10 organizaitons 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> are there cases of NFPs having stockholders? 
[19:22] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, no, by definition there can't be 
[19:22] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, both stockholders would have to agree, and presumably get others to go along with them unless they planned on running everything themselves. 
[19:22] == Lagg [~anthony@2600:3c01::ygvs:jmhl:otmp:nsgw] has left #staff [] 
[19:22] <+NCommander> At best, a NFP might have members which elect the board, but the vast majority don't do that 
[19:23] <+NCommander> I.e., wikimedia foundation, the EFF 
[19:23] * mrcoolbp is torn between agreeing with both matt_ and NCommander at the same time 
[19:23] <+NCommander> Just to name two off the top of my head 
[19:23] <@Bytram> NCommander: thought experiment.. 
[19:23] * NCommander notes that having aparent NFP in the future will be our "permament" oversight 
[19:23] <@Bytram> atm there are just two stockholders. 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> (will be but yes) 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> it's proposed 
[19:24] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, maybe we need to take it from proposed, and set a realistic timetable to formation 
[19:24] <@Bytram> if we had, say, 10 (or 20), it would be harder for any one individual to 'run the whole show' 
[19:24] <+matt_> #define 'run the whole show' 
[19:25] <@Bytram> ummm 
[19:25] <+NCommander> In my "perfect" world, the B corp would issue shares to the NFP, who's board acts as the SAN check for the B-corp board 
[19:25] <@Bytram> matt_: meta term to define the problem we are trying to avoid? 
[19:25] <+NCommander> But, even in that case, you're in exactly the same situation, since what forces the NFP board to do the right thing 
[19:25] <+matt_> the issue is that without stockholders, we basically lose the benefit of being a B corp. we are effectively a normal for-profit right now, as there is nothing making the board adhere to the public benefit purpose... 
[19:26] * NCommander mulls 
[19:26] <@Bytram> off-the-wall thought... 
[19:26] <+NCommander> The problem can be defined in a single sentence 
[19:26] <+NCommander> "Who watches the watchmen?" 
[19:27] <@Bytram> issue a share to each subscriber? 
[19:27] * NCommander *really* dislikes the idea of money == power 
[19:27] <+matt_> Bytram, i doubt that the US securities and exchange commission would like that :) 
[19:27] <@Bytram> same here, but trying to think ouside the box 
[19:28] <+juggs> NCommander, then who watches the watchmen? Who watches the watchmen's watchers etc... 
[19:28] <+NCommander> matt_, the B corp was something of a stopgap because NFP incorporation was going to be difficult. YOu're right, without share holders, there is nothing keeping us in line 
[19:28] <@Bytram> the general idea I'm trying to express is to provide a means to *dilute* the power of any one person on the board. 
[19:28] <+NCommander> But if we go EVIL, the community is going to bug out 
[19:28] <@Bytram> there' 
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> and your stock will be worthless NCommander 
[19:28] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, exactly :) 
[19:28] <@Bytram> there's that; there's a built-in negative feedback loop! 
[19:28] <+NCommander> Worse than worthless, I would have TP more valuable :-P 
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: you're incentivised to do the right thing 
[19:29] <+NCommander> though for me, its not a matter of worse 
[19:29] <+NCommander> er 
[19:29] <+NCommander> WORTH 
[19:29] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp++ 
[19:29] <+juggs> TP? 
[19:29] <+NCommander> >.>; 
[19:29] <+NCommander> juggs, toliet paper 
[19:29] <+juggs> k 
[19:29] <+NCommander> Its a futurama reference 
[19:30] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: so, although *technically* NCommander or matt_ could go mad and run rough-shod over the community's wishes, it's in their best interests to do what is right for community. 
[19:31] <@Bytram> else, the community will ork the code, and start their *own* site... just like we did. 
[19:31] <@Bytram> s/ork/fork/ 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> I think NCommander's argument that makes the most sense is something like: If members of the board takes crazy pills, we can elect new memebers, but if the stockholders do, there's no recourse 
[19:31] <+matt_> Bytram, that, and also, we would both have to go mad at the same time, since neither would have >50% :) 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> IMO that is a huge if, and one I'm willing to live with, having met both of you two 
[19:32] <+juggs> Bytram, provided they are solely financially motivated. In going mad they could just decide to torch the place on the way out the door. 
[19:32] <+NCommander> ^- what juggs said 
[19:32] <+NCommander> I remember Jon 
[19:32] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: so we are most of the way there, we just need to find a way to keep >50% of the stockholders from going crazy at the same time? 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> that would be ideal, yes. 
[19:32] * NCommander is chewing on his lip 
[19:32] <+NCommander> I'm NOT happy with the situation 
[19:32] <+NCommander> But 
[19:33] <+NCommander> I'm debating ACKing it, with the condition that the board focuses on incorporiating a parent NFP ASAP 
[19:33] <@paulej72> If we had 4 stock holders it would be harder to have more than 1/2 go carazy at the same time 
[19:33] <@Bytram> atm NCommander has 50% and matt_ has 50% right 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> that is also a "proposed" action 
[19:33] <@Bytram> what if we issued more stock so as to dilute their ownership so that *together* they owned < 50% 
[19:34] <+matt_> Bytram, then the stockholders would be unable to hold the board accountable. 
[19:34] <+NCommander> Bytram, this is the add gas to a fire argument I've brought up 
[19:34] <+NCommander> Oh, as a side note 
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72: I like that idea, but it would give the organization more debt in a sense to buy back 
[19:34] <+NCommander> I'm competely for expanding the board 
[19:34] <@Bytram> matt_: I disagree. I think. 
[19:34] <+NCommander> Not sure if I voiced that 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> I am too 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> I have two nominations actually 
[19:35] <+NCommander> So, one thing we need to be SLIGHTLY careful of 
[19:35] <+matt_> NCommander, me too, although i strongly feel that we should have a solution to this issue either first or at the same time as expanding the board... 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> but I'm not sure what "positions they would be" 
[19:35] <+NCommander> If memory serves, the COI allows us to issue 100,000 shares totally 
[19:35] <+NCommander> matt_, indeed 
[19:35] <@Bytram> if the stockholders think the board is doing 'the right thing' there's no problem; and ifthe stockholders think there's a problem, it'll take some work, but enough of them can get tgether and force the board to 'do the right thing'. right? 
[19:35] <+NCommander> We need to make sure at least 51% remains unallocated for NFP buyout :-P 
[19:35] <+matt_> NCommander, it's 1,000,000, actually. 
[19:35] <+audioguy> I have two core problems with the proposal - too few board mebers and stock based solely on financial contributions. And I might add, if stock has been based upon money contributions, offers by others on staff has been con sistently refused, so there was no option for others to participate in this way. 
[19:36] <+NCommander> matt_, so 500,001 shares need to not be allocated :-) 
[19:36] <@Bytram> audioguy++ 
[19:36] <+matt_> NCommander, keep in mind that the NFP could also buy shares from current stockholders, but yes, it's a good idea too. 
[19:36] <+NCommander> audioguy makes a fair point 
[19:36] <+NCommander> I turned down the hat in an effort to keep things self-contained 
[19:37] * NCommander actually forgot about that >.>; 
[19:37] <@mrcoolbp> true 
[19:37] * Bytram recalls many offers of monetary support 
[19:37] <+NCommander> I do too 
[19:37] <+NCommander> Mostly a matter of not complicating ownership issues >.>; 
[19:37] <@Bytram> with a consistent responsetat money could *not* be accepted as a NF until the legal docs were in order. 
[19:37] <+NCommander> (that may have backfired in hindsight) 
[19:38] <@Bytram> NCommander: but a valiant and noble effort, nonetheless =) 
[19:38] <+NCommander> I wish I had a time machine 
[19:38] <+NCommander> Though if I had a time machine, becoming the richest person on earth would be trivial 
[19:38] * mrcoolbp runs around in circles chasing this conversation 
[19:38] <+audioguy> So open it up when the stock is issued. 
[19:39] * NCommander mulls 
[19:39] <@Bytram> hmmm 
[19:39] <+NCommander> At least in the short term I don't think anyone gong mad 
[19:39] <@Bytram> it'll come up at some point... 
[19:39] <+NCommander> What Bytram said 
[19:39] <+NCommander> There's another aspect to take in account 
[19:39] <+NCommander> What happens if the stockholders force a board change 
[19:39] <@Bytram> what about the folks who came, did a boat load of work, and have stepped away or whatever reason... and then want to come back and get 'part of the pie' 
[19:40] <+matt_> NCommanders, then the board changes. if the board was trying to beta the community, this is a good thing! 
[19:40] <+NCommander> The only recourse stockholders have to vote someone out 
[19:40] <@Bytram> based on time and effort. 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: they are S.O.L. for job abandonment? 
[19:40] <+NCommander> matt_, right, but unless its something clear cut, the SS Dramatrain is going to leave 
[19:40] <+matt_> NCommander, which is why it is very important that the stockholders be very soothing individuals :) 
[19:40] * NCommander looks around 
[19:40] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: I'm not advocating for them, just noting that it most likely *will* come up, and we need to be prepared. 
[19:41] <+NCommander> YOu got more potential stockholders to propose? 
[19:41] * NCommander ducks 
[19:42] <+NCommander> Bytram, that's an argument against, aka, the pandora's box argument 
[19:42] <@Bytram> NCommander: not *against* per se, just something to be mindful of so we aren't caught blind-sided and can be prepared ahead of time. that's all. 
[19:44] <@Bytram> I think, though a bit rough, is summed up quite well by mrcoolbp: "they are S.O.L. for job abandonment?" 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: I'm afraid if we start issuing stock to other memebers of staff, it's all or nothing, and it has to be equal amounts 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> that would be very complicated 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> (though I totally see your point) 
[19:45] <+audioguy> I don't see why a few shares is much noire complicated than two 
[19:45] <+NCommander> I think we're all agreed some form of oversight here 
[19:45] * Bytram has *not* been keeping track of the amount of time he put into the site; suspects most others are in the same boat. 
[19:45] <+NCommander> But part of me wonders if we're putting the cart before the horse 
[19:45] <+NCommander> Ulitmately, none of us are getting paid right now, there isn't a financal incentive right now to be evil 
[19:46] <+NCommander> If as a more-sooner objective we bootstrap the NFP and use THAT for oversight 
[19:46] <+NCommander> I can't help but see that as the correct and fair solution 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: that will require funding though. 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> that's why we skipped it in the first place 
[19:46] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, right, but now we have a way to raise money 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> but this is what is holding us back from making money 
[19:47] <@Bytram> NCommander: I'm missing something here. that sounds to me a lot like: kick the can down the road. 
[19:48] <+NCommander> Bytram, that's essentially what Im saying at this point 
[19:48] <+juggs> NCommander, matt_ - what would be the ballpark costs / effort to stand the NFP up? 
[19:48] <+NCommander> juggs, it was basically determined we'd need a lawyer not to step on landmines 
[19:48] <+matt_> juggs, ^^ 
[19:48] <+NCommander> Now, as a B-corp owned by a NFP though, it does sidestep a lot of the painw e had 
[19:48] <+juggs> I'll take that to mean pricey then. 
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> aye 
[19:49] <+matt_> it costs a lot of money to non-profit. 
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> heh 
[19:49] <@Bytram> juggs: and hence the problem... we need some money to get a lawyer to help s set up the rules so that we can get some money. =) 
[19:49] <@Bytram> hmmm 
[19:50] <@Bytram> juggs: and hence the problem... we need some money to get a lawyer to help us set up the NFP correctly so that we can get some money to pay for the lawyer. =) 
[19:50] * mrcoolbp throws an egg at the chicken 
[19:50] <@Bytram> and, oh by the way, now have a NFP in place. 
[19:50] <@Bytram> is that about right? 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> more or less 
[19:50] * Bytram ignores the governing issue atm 
[19:51] <+juggs> isn't the entire topic of this meeting Bytram ? 
[19:51] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: you missed. it's on the other side of the road. 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: kinda, we are evaluating methods for transfer of Tangible and intangible property to the B-Corp 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> some of those introduce "interesting" governance issues 
[19:52] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: exactly. 
[19:52] <+juggs> we need a lawyer :D xD 
[19:53] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, i would say we're evaluating methods for governance/accountability, and some of those have interesting features of eliminating debt :) 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> sure. 
[19:53] <@Bytram> matt_++ nice summation! 
[19:54] <@mrcoolbp> Well, from my perspective, one things for sure, we are a unique organization 
[19:54] <@Bytram> so, if [enough of] the board goes mad, the users revolt, fork the code, and go play elsewhere leaving the board with nothing. 
[19:54] <@Bytram> if the board stays sane, then not a problem. 
[19:54] <+NCommander> Bytram, you still spliter the community when you do that 
[19:54] <+juggs> mrcoolbp, I doubt we are unique 
[19:54] <@Bytram> true. 
[19:54] <+NCommander> Ulitamtely, I'd like to put the board ejection switch in the hands of the community 
[19:55] <@Bytram> NCommander: hmmmm 
[19:55] <@Bytram> we've been talking with a US-flavored view of governance... 
[19:55] <+juggs> NCommander, does the issuance of stock nix that option? 
[19:55] <@Bytram> what about the concept of a more 'parliamentary' form of govt... vote of no-confidence. can that help in any way? 
[19:56] <+NCommander> We could create a true community oversight position on the board 
[19:56] <+NCommander> BUT 
[19:56] <+NCommander> The board cna change its own bylaws 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: kinda 
[19:56] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #staff 
[19:57] <+matt_> NCommander, exactly, unless there is a mechanism to overrule them in such extreme cases. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: not if the community oversight person vetoes that 
[19:57] <@Bytram> then we just take *your* ball and go home... that's how we got here in the first place! 
[19:57] <+audioguy> Does anyone disagree we need more board members? 
[19:57] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, but the board could just fire the community oversight person :) 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> oh = ( 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I'd like to move towards 5 memebers 
[19:58] <@Bytram> audioguy: we only have 3 board members atm, right? what if we had, say, 7 or 9 board members. 
[19:58] <+matt_> audioguy, so, the only issue there is that we seem to have a little difficulty getting three people to agree... 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram, 9 seems like a lot, I'd rather give up my seat then have that many 
[19:58] <@Bytram> as the numbers go up, though, it makes it much harder to agree 
[19:58] <@Bytram> I'd prefer to keep it down to 5-7. 
[19:58] <+matt_> audioguy, it seems to me that it would be good to get the basic structures of governance set up, and then immediately expand the board. 
[19:58] <+audioguy> 5-7 works. 
[19:59] <+matt_> yeah, 5-7 seems rational. 
[19:59] <+audioguy> Proposed, curent board adds 1, community elects 2 
[19:59] <@Bytram> so, can we just work with the assumption (for the time being) that when the time comes, we'll expand the board to 5-7 members? 
[19:59] <@Bytram> I so motion. 
[19:59] <+NCommander> Bytram, I believe that's the flightplan 
[20:00] <+NCommander> I think we're expanding to five, and then playing it by ear 
[20:00] <@mrcoolbp> I'm on board with that <g> 
[20:00] <+NCommander> Too big a board, and we fall on our own weight 
[20:00] <@Bytram> NCommander: agreed. 
[20:00] <+NCommander> Too small, and we get in a situation where one person playing tiebreaker 
[20:00] <+NCommander> i.e., mrcoolbp 
[20:00] * mrcoolbp pulls hair out and eats it 
[20:00] * Bytram saw his cat do that 
[20:01] <@Bytram> okay. let's go with that for now. 5-7 board members at soonest opportunity. agreed? 
[20:01] <@mrcoolbp> I could agree with that 
[20:01] <+matt_> me too. 
[20:01] <+NCommander> +1 
[20:01] <+NCommander> (or +2-4 in this case) 
[20:02] <@Bytram> okay... from my perspecitve it looks like the board is in unanimous agreement. 
[20:02] <@Bytram> motion carried. =) 
[20:02] <+NCommander> I'd like to get the current question solved though before we do that 
[20:02] <@mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[20:02] <+NCommander> Bytram, there hasn't been an official vote 
[20:03] <@Bytram> NCommander: I just saw three votes for it, no? 
[20:03] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: we want to solve this issue first 
[20:03] <+NCommander> Bytram, it has to be formally called with the wording of what we're voting for to prevent ambiguity 
[20:03] <+juggs> tacit agreement does not a vote make 
[20:03] <@Bytram> you guys are great! 
[20:03] <+NCommander> Ok, so backing up 
[20:03] <@Bytram> point made! 
[20:03] <+NCommander> I think I see why we're stuck 
[20:03] <+NCommander> Its ulitmately boiling down to ideology 
[20:04] <+NCommander> On how watchdogs should operate 
[20:04] * matt_ looks to the US supreme court for inspiration :) 
[20:04] <+NCommander> I don't trust watchdogs to always be honest or act in the best interests of the community 
[20:04] <+NCommander> Matt does 
[20:04] * NCommander may be oversimplifying but I think thats the gist of it 
[20:05] <+matt_> i think that's a fair assessment, but i would just add that a good watchdog recognizes that his own best interest is inextricably linked with the best interests of those he watches. 
[20:05] <+NCommander> The normal (perhaps only) legal mechanism available to force oversight conforms to matt_'s world model 
[20:05] <+juggs> Perhaps each board member should document their ideas on how they think the governance / oversight should function. Then reconvene to discuss. 
[20:05] == TheMightyLaptop [~TheMighty@Soylent/Staff/Developer/TMB] has joined #staff 
[20:05] == mode/#staff [+v TheMightyLaptop] by juggler 
[20:06] * NCommander is taking the notion of stock at this point less of ownership, and more of a stewardship 
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:06] <+NCommander> juggs, I made some progress on it, and got stuck 
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: the stock issuance option isn't perfect, but I'm wondering do we have a better one? 
[20:07] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm coming to the conclusion of "no" 
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> = / 
[20:07] <+juggs> NCommander, it's not good if you get stuck expressing your own thoughts on the matter :/ 
[20:07] <+NCommander> At least, not one we could practically implement 
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: problem is there are legal limitations 
[20:07] <+NCommander> I think, long term, we need the parent NFP 
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: furthermore, non of us have a lot of experience in these matters 
[20:07] <+NCommander> Which then brings oversight closer to my model, or at least a middle ground between me and matt_'s view of the world 
[20:08] <@mrcoolbp> but who overseas the NFP!?!? = P 
[20:08] <+audioguy> issue some of the stock to staff-in-aggregate 
[20:08] <+juggs> mrcoolbp, I was thinking more along the lines of idealisations. Then bash those idealisations to fit with legal possibility. I guess that is what i happening here anyway. I'll shush :) 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> your fine 
[20:09] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, actually a valid point :) 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ could you address audioguy's question? 
[20:09] <+NCommander> the members of the NFP? 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ WRT issuing more stock to staff memebers 
[20:09] <+matt_> NCommander, i thought you envisioned a NFP without members? 
[20:10] <+NCommander> matt_, I've been somewhat convinced otherwise by my own arguments on this, and the need for oversight 
[20:10] * Bytram notes: NFP == Not For People 
[20:10] <+NCommander> NFP = Not For Production 
[20:11] * Bytram looks over at Hydrogen and nods knowingly 
[20:11] <+matt_> audioguy, well, i'm not against issuing stock more broadly, but in my view the idea is to avoid concentrating power in the board. 
[20:11] <+NCommander> matt_, a member NFP has issues, I won't deny that, but you're right about oversight. With a B-corp owned by a NFP, the "day-to-day" stuff is handled by those appointed 
[20:11] <+audioguy> the idea is to avoid concentrating power period. :-) 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy and paulej72 have a point, if anyone has "stock" in this organization, it's the people that have been working tirelessly on this project for 6 months in their free time. 
[20:12] <+NCommander> the NFP acts as both a long term advisory position, and as a circuit breaker incase we rock off into space 
[20:12] <+matt_> audioguy, in other words, the purpose of _this_ B-corp. is to "engage in and promote free and open journalism...". If the board and/or staff want to do something different, thats fine, but it may require a new entity. 
[20:13] <@Bytram> as I see it, we'ver got two parties, each trying to keep an eye on the other, and if there's less than 50% control, the other one can get out of line... but if you fix *that*, then the *other* party has more than 50% power, and we go around in circles. 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ that doesn't seem to be an arguement against issuing some stock to staff memebers 
[20:13] <+audioguy> Stock, board membership, and holdomg of debt all represent the aquisition of power by individuals. We are deciding now how that is to be apportioned. I would like to see it more spread out. 
[20:13] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, i am thinking of it more like the "stock bits". only the editors need editor bits, so only the editors get editor bits. editor bits aren't a reward for the amount of effort put in, they are a mechanism to enable a specific job to get done effectively. 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ my point is that the people that have not wavered in 6 months, the ones that have put in the hours, are probably the best-suited to "oversee" the mission 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> I could be wrong, but that's what I'm seeing them say 
[20:14] <+TheMightyLaptop> plus at even 50/50 split, 100% of parties have to agree to do anything. if staff get stock too only 51% do. 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> if the argument for stock is for oversight anyway 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyLaptop: interesting 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyLaptop: 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> Though we are only talking about a hopefully rare occurence in which the board needs to be overrulled 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> (sp) 
[20:15] <+NCommander> ah crud 
[20:15] <+NCommander> brb five minutes 
[20:15] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp++ 
[20:15] <+NCommander> (dealing w/ land lord) 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: okay 
[20:16] <@Bytram> we've been at this for over an hour... I make a motion for a 5-minute recess. 
[20:16] <@mrcoolbp> I'm in favor 
[20:16] <+matt_> seconded :) 
[20:16] <+TheMightyLaptop> smoke em if you've got em 
[20:16] <@mrcoolbp> --------5 minute rescess---- 
[20:16] <@mrcoolbp> (sp) 
[20:16] <@Bytram> meet back here at 22 minutes past the hour (or so) 
[20:23] <+NCommander> Ok 
[20:23] <+NCommander> I'm back 
[20:23] <@Bytram> I'm seeing a glimmer of a solution. we're trying to handle a black-or-white *worst* case scenario. Like a process that is hogging 100% of the CPU. Instead of look at a 'kill -9' command, we need to have some ways to 'nice' the 'abberant' process. If we have *those* in place and working, we'll never get to the point where we have to pull the kill switch. And the community will help keep us 'nice' -- it' 
[20:23] <@Bytram> s in all our best interests. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> oh, and I'm back. =) 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ we're ready 
[20:25] <+matt_> ...and, back! 
[20:26] * juggs present and correct for more OT comments 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so just as a "shot in dark" what about issuing stock to various staff memebers, what are the down-sides? 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> I'm sure there are some 
[20:27] <+TheMightyLaptop> mrcoolbp, ^^ 
[20:27] <+matt_> #define "various staff members" 
[20:27] * NCommander kicks his laptop 
[20:27] <+NCommander> Sorry 
[20:27] <+TheMightyLaptop> less of a hurdle to clear to screw something up with good intentions 
[20:27] * NCommander notes he'd love to expense a new machine -_-; 
[20:28] <@mrcoolbp> okay, well I don't know where we stand at this point 
[20:28] <+matt_> mrcoolbp: [20:14] <+TheMightyLaptop> plus at even 50/50 split, 100% of parties have to agree to do anything. if staff get stock too only 51% do. 
[20:29] <+TheMightyLaptop> that also works as a pro. all depends on the situation. 
[20:29] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I'm standing on the ground 
[20:29] <+matt_> NCommander, the board must approve that expense! :) 
[20:29] <@mrcoolbp> yeah, but if there were 4 more people let 
[20:29] <@mrcoolbp> let's say 
[20:29] <+juggs> What would be the position should a staffer choose to leave staff? 
[20:29] <@mrcoolbp> yeah, that would make it complicated 
[20:29] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: this is all in response to your questions^^^^ 
[20:29] <@Bytram> matt_: that may require a one-by-one enumeration. but for a starting point, those who are now on staff and have been with us from within a month of the site going live until now. 
[20:30] <+TheMightyLaptop> probably 9/10 times they'd want to sell back their stock 
[20:30] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: and the board has the right of first refusal. 
[20:30] <+matt_> TheMightyLaptop, not when they see what they'd get for it ;) 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyLaptop: and the board would have to approve that 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> I think. 
[20:30] <+juggs> TheMightyLaptop, quite possible. But does the corp have any funds to make the buy back? 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> not currently no 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> we don't really have many assets 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> that's why we're here tonight though. = _ 
[20:31] <+TheMightyLaptop> fairly soon we'll have "some" funds though. 
[20:31] <+matt_> bank account is at ~80USD, i think. 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> ^matts money 
[20:31] <@Bytram> matt_: depends on how much a share is 'worth', right? is this where par value comes in? 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> yes, but then there's the "valuation" thing that I don't understand 
[20:32] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: I think that is addressed in the part of the bylaws mentioning an appraisal ???? 
[20:32] <+matt_> Bytram, so "par value" is basically the absolute minimum value. in other words, the corp. doesn't issue stock below the "par value". 
[20:32] <+NCommander> matt_, what happened to 20 dollars? 
[20:32] <+TheMightyLaptop> could be replaced with preferred stock if you're not on the staff/board/nfp but that's another whole bag of worms 
[20:32] <+matt_> NCommander, i think you mean 10 cents? 
[20:33] <+NCommander> matt_, I thought we had $100 USD in the bank account, that's what I have on the ledger 
[20:33] <@Bytram> that rings a bell. 
[20:33] <+matt_> NCommander, oh, you mean the bank account. we spent 15 USD to transfer sylnt.us, i believe. 
[20:33] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^^^^^ 
[20:33] * Bytram was replying to matt_ 
[20:33] <+NCommander> We need to get a system of making sure our ledgers are up to date 
[20:33] <+NCommander> */discussion for another time* 
[20:34] <@Bytram> it was previously mentioned long ago, that if the need arose, we could go to the community and ask for help in a particular situation. I think that would apply in this case, as well. 
[20:35] <@mrcoolbp> which need? 
[20:35] <@Bytram> we've been up-front about everything all along. Just put out a request that we need $amt to buy back shares (or whatever) and ask for (ugh) donations. 
[20:36] <+matt_> Bytram, we need to register with each US state in which we solicit donations, i believe. 
[20:36] <@Bytram> I was referring to, if the need arose to buy back shares, and we lacked the funds, to post a request to the community. 
[20:36] <+TheMightyLaptop> Bytram, why not just allow the sale of the stock to the folks who would otherwise be donating 
[20:36] <+juggs> Ask people to buy 1000 coffee mugs then :D 
[20:36] <@Bytram> ignore that detail, then, ask the cty to buy swag. 
[20:36] <@Bytram> juggs++ 
[20:36] <+audioguy> The staff-in-aggregate was just one idea. It could be temporry. We could also let people buy in. People could be apporationed shares accoding to contributions, which would be shares which were an asset to the company. The thing is that I think there are many possibke ways to handle this that have not been expored. 
[20:36] <+matt_> TheMightyLaptop, a private sale of equity would require registration with the SEC, and various things, including us verifying that any investors meet accreditation standards, i believe. 
[20:37] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: we are open to suggestions 
[20:37] <@Bytram> matt_: can the corp allocate shares to staff without a registration? 
[20:37] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:37] <+TheMightyLaptop> matt_, yerk. pass then. 
[20:38] <+audioguy> I gues what I would like to see is the larger board take up this issue. Take a little time to really explore the possiblities. 
[20:38] <+matt_> audioguy, agreed on the exploring as many options as we can come up with. but, i also think that getting away from the notion of "buying" influence was a major part of the issue at hand. 
[20:39] <+NCommander> audioguy, I think the way to think of this is "these are the folks who watch the board" 
[20:39] <+NCommander> I'm not 100% convienced we're not drastically overhtinking this 
[20:39] <+audioguy> But influence is being bought by you and NCommander, in a sense. And by that fact no one lese had thsi opportunity. 
[20:39] <@Bytram> sunshine is the best disinfectant... post ownership stake allocations over time somewhere on the site. 
[20:39] <@mrcoolbp> I wonder if some aren't aware of matt_'s intangible contributions to the project (i.e. consulting on these matters and solely handling the incorporation/bank account etc.) 
[20:40] <+NCommander> what mrcoolbp said 
[20:40] <+NCommander> doesn't negate audioguy's point though 
[20:40] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[20:40] <+matt_> audioguy, note that the amount of $ that we contributed is different, but the proposed idea is for the number of shares to not be different. 
[20:40] <+audioguy> It not about his or NCommanders contributions. 
[20:40] <+matt_> audioguy, in that way, they are really a mechanism to provide oversight. 
[20:40] <+TheMightyLaptop> personally i think it's best to keep it to just the two of them until the NFP can get up and running and own a majority share. 
[20:40] <@mrcoolbp> but I think I'm seeing a notion for some that matt walked in and plumped a few thou down and now he would be able to control everything. 
[20:41] <+audioguy> That is what it looks like if you are not aware of the details. 
[20:41] <@Bytram> I can see how some could see it that way, but based on everything *I* have seen, he's been most patient and generous with his time and talents. 
[20:42] <@Bytram> just drawing up the drafts of the incorporation docs would have cost us some $bignum 
[20:42] <+audioguy> I wish there was a way to completely seprate money from contributions, which is part of why I suggested just issuing regular notes for debt. 
[20:42] <@Bytram> and if done wrong, would have cost even bigger $num to undo. 
[20:42] <@mrcoolbp> AND he's put a lot of money in, and after many conversations with matt_ I'm convinced he's not only benevolent, but he is a fine candidate to oversee this mission 
[20:42] <@Bytram> ^^^ 
[20:42] <@mrcoolbp> I don't think anyone would say that NCommander is any different 
[20:43] <+audioguy> I believe you and NC andhime have met personally, correct? 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> correct 
[20:43] <+matt_> on at least 2 occasions. 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:43] <+audioguy> An opportunity no others have had. 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> = ( 
[20:43] <@Bytram> having met NCommander and having had some long conversations with him, as well, I have no doubts he's all in for the *community* 
[20:43] <+audioguy> Personal comtacte makes a difference. 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: come out to boston, I have a spare bed = ) 
[20:43] <@Bytram> I've met NCommander *twice* 
[20:44] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ question: what if SN has enough money rollin' around, and you two want to sell your shares, can you two force that? 
[20:45] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, you mean sell to a 3rd party? 
[20:45] <+audioguy> At any rate, I think broadening the base of power and money are both good. 
[20:45] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ yes, or sell to the Corp 
[20:45] * NCommander has met a fair bit of the community, and will try and meet audioguy when I'm in his neck of the woods 
[20:45] <@Bytram> audioguy: in the widest sense of the term: diversify? 
[20:45] * Bytram knows it's the wrong word, but can't think of any thing better 
[20:46] <@Bytram> hmm, 'dilute'? 
[20:46] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, so the board would need to approve. now, if we both agreed, we could force the issue, which i imagine would cause the board to resign, most likely. 
[20:46] <@paulej72> Ok my question is why are ws planning on issueing 50k shares each to NCommander and Matt if the current vauation is 10 cents the PBC is on the hook for 10K 
[20:46] <+audioguy> Meanig that it uncortable having the same people controlling the board and having all the stock. 
[20:46] <+NCommander> Just a note: I'm here, but just watchng to see how the conversation plays out. 
[20:46] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72: I"m getting to that 
[20:46] <@paulej72> k 
[20:46] <@mrcoolbp> I see two things 
[20:47] <@mrcoolbp> as just mentioned, I'm wondering what the implication of the two super-board memeber seats are... AND... 
[20:47] <+audioguy> uncomfortable :-) 
[20:47] <@mrcoolbp> the other is that if the two people want to keep their power, they have effectively donated a lot of money to the organization, which is a huge benefit for us 
[20:48] <+audioguy> Let other donate too. 
[20:48] <+TheMightyLaptop> yeah, it's dangerous but no more dangerous than what we have now. right now if both proposed holders agree to something, it WILL pass. ditto when they have stock. 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> There's the added plus that they happen to be worthy of said power 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> imo 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: maybe you could pay some of the linode bills? 
[20:48] <+juggs> Then are we not back at the impasse of $$ buys influence? 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> or pay for a lawyer/cpa? 
[20:48] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: yes 
[20:49] <+audioguy> To me shares mean ownership of the company. I believe others here have earned the right to such a position. 
[20:49] <@mrcoolbp> might be a necessary evil unless matt and NCommander are willing to donate all their assetts AND turn over the power to whatever board gets elected 
[20:49] <@mrcoolbp> in my eyes they are investing in this organation, this vision 
[20:49] * NCommander is, as noted yesterday 
[20:49] <+audioguy> I have offered to buy out matt completely in the past. 
[20:49] <+matt_> audioguy, also, keep in mind that i believe there are a lot of proponents of finding a way to pay staff. 
[20:49] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: nod 
[20:50] <+audioguy> My offer of financial help still stands (I see not need to buy out matt now) 
[20:50] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ also said he'd be willing, BUT as I just mentioned, you two invest money, and you are incentivised to look after it. That's all I got for now 
[20:50] <+juggs> Maybe that's just the way it has to be mrcoolbp. Unless the US recognises something like a co-operative corporate structure where benefits accrue to all members of a community. I think that is a european concept though. 
[20:50] <+audioguy> What we actuallu have here is not 'stff' in the usual sense fo that word. 
[20:50] <+audioguy> staff 
[20:51] <@mrcoolbp> we are volunteerrs, yes 
[20:51] <@Bytram> audioguy: agreed. 
[20:51] <+audioguy> It is not uncommon even in strictly for profit businesses to give the people involved in a start shares, look at Microsoft. 
[20:51] <@mrcoolbp> we use that word because we have certain privs and powers (and responsibilities) in the day-to-day. It's not like we just decide to show up at a soup kitchen on a tuesday night 
[20:52] <+NCommander> I'd like to make a slight point 
[20:52] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: but not in NFPs 
[20:52] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: you have the floor 
[20:52] <+NCommander> I'm not sure I'm confortible with the corporation having an owner 
[20:52] <+NCommander> NFPs by definition don't 
[20:52] <+NCommander> and that's what we would have been if it wasn't for the pain involved in it 
[20:53] <@mrcoolbp> it's what we are modeling, yes 
[20:53] <+NCommander> We might loose the advantages of being a B corporation, but arguably, we did that to show we're on the level. As we discussed in meat space, we could have done all of this as a C corp 
[20:53] <+audioguy> Then perhaps there should be no stock at all. 
[20:54] <+NCommander> audioguy, the stock thing will rear its head again, but thats the way we legally sell ourselves to a NFP :-) 
[20:54] <+NCommander> */2 cents* 
[20:54] <+matt_> audioguy, my main argument against that is that we lose the benefit of being a public benefit corp. 
[20:54] <+matt_> since there is no mechanism to require the board to adhere to our public benefit purpose. 
[20:54] <+audioguy> Then there MUST be an owner to sell. Can there nit be an aggregate owner? 
[20:55] <+TheMightyLaptop> NCommander, don't sell to an nfp, do a stock swap. and again for each member site. 
[20:55] <@mrcoolbp> interesting ^ 
[20:55] <+NCommander> audioguy, without stock being issued, the company owns itself, and is controlled by the board. A legal person so to speak 
[20:55] <+TheMightyLaptop> and swap enough to dilute existing shares to a small minority 
[20:56] <@paulej72> npfs dont have stock, correct? 
[20:56] <+matt_> correct. 
[20:56] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: very interesting... 
[20:56] <@Bytram> I, for one, do not expect a financial windfall out of my efforts... but, I most certainly *do* want to see the vision succeed, and took the issuance of stock to be a *means* to that end, not an end in itself. 
[20:56] <+TheMightyLaptop> crap. was a good idea other than that though. 
[20:56] <@paulej72> and how does the NPF by SN PBC? 
[20:56] <@paulej72> buy 
[20:56] <+matt_> an NFP can own stock. 
[20:56] <+matt_> of another entity. 
[20:56] <+TheMightyLaptop> nod nod 
[20:56] <@paulej72> what assesets 
[20:57] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72: 1$ for 100K shares = ) 
[20:57] <+audioguy> Best delt with through who has the power to put people on the board, maybe. 
[20:57] <@mrcoolbp> I'll donate the dollar 
[20:57] <+TheMightyLaptop> swap would have given each member site an equal position in the nfp though 
[20:57] <@paulej72> then the shares that NCommander and Matt have would be worthless 
[20:57] <+audioguy> The electrical coop here elects its board through the membership. 
[20:58] <+audioguy> Board is completely seprate from the oprtatiomns people. 
[20:58] <+NCommander> paulej72, they effectively are, that's why issuing them before making money is easy 
[20:58] <+juggs> where is "here" audioguy - out of interest, feel free to decline to answer :) 
[20:58] <+audioguy> seems to work well. 
[20:59] <@paulej72> but that whole 10cents thing in the articles of incorportation must mean somthing 
[20:59] <+audioguy> Vernonia Oregon, Western Oregon Electric Coop 
[21:00] <+audioguy> But the debt owed to them would not be worthless, paulej72 
[21:00] * NCommander notes he's been there 
[21:00] <+juggs> OK - so the US does recognise co-ops. I'd assumed the concept would be way too ~damn socialist~ to exist there :D 
[21:00] * juggs ducks 
[21:00] * NCommander fires juggs out of a cannon 
[21:00] <+juggs> weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 
[21:00] <+audioguy> We actually have many like this, farmers are big on coops 
[21:00] <+TheMightyLaptop> nah, voluntary socialism is peachy keen. we just object to forced. 
[21:01] <@Bytram> for completeness sake, according to: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/SoylentNews_PBC_Certificate_of_Incorporation ... FOURTH. The total number of shares of all classes of capital stock which the Corporation shall have authority to issue is One Million (1,000,000) shares, with a par value of $0.001 per share (the Common Stock). 
[21:01] <@paulej72> if the debt the worth something then the stock then worh something and the NPF would need real money to by the PBC 
[21:01] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 
[21:01] <+NCommander> paulej72, the board can grant without accepting nything in return as far as I understand it 
[21:01] <+TheMightyLaptop> paulej72, we're a PBC. we're not obliged to make gainful fiscal decisions. 
[21:02] <+TheMightyLaptop> we absolutely can sell something for any value we like, even at a major loss. 
[21:02] <+audioguy> The company actually has assetes in the form of good will, work done by various staff, and other things. Just not 'cash' 
[21:03] <@paulej72> the grant NCommander and Matt 50K shares each and buy them back for a dollar for the lot :) 
[21:03] <+audioguy> All that is worth something. 
[21:03] <+TheMightyLaptop> audioguy, i agree but i don't think it's especially safe to open the stock floodgates wide before the nfp holds a majority. 
[21:03] * NCommander fires a cannon 
[21:03] <+NCommander> FOlks 
[21:03] <+NCommander> We're getting stuck in a loop 
[21:04] <@mrcoolbp> yup. 
[21:04] <+matt_> indeed 
[21:04] <+NCommander> Let's boil it down to what we have 
[21:04] <+NCommander> Here's what we could defacto do 
[21:04] <+NCommander> 1. Nothing, board oversees itself 
[21:04] <+NCommander> 2. Issue stock according to matt_'s plan 
[21:04] <+NCommander> 3. Brainstorm a realistic scenario of oversight, perhaps as a longer term plan 
[21:05] <@mrcoolbp> ^ seperate from current issue I beleive 
[21:05] <@mrcoolbp> well related 
[21:05] <+NCommander> From what I see, if we go down the stock route, we're opening a massive can of worms 
[21:05] <@mrcoolbp> sorry, go on 
[21:05] <+NCommander> My viewpoint is if we issue stock, its for the purposes of oversight, and I've already hilighted the idiological issues 
[21:06] <+NCommander> Furthermore, audioguy's point is extremely valid as well 
[21:06] == FunPika [~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 
[21:06] <+NCommander> We could argue it into submission 
[21:06] <+NCommander> But its not getting anywhere 
[21:07] <+NCommander> I'm also concerned if we vote for matt_'s plan as is, the staff are going to get a good chuck of resentment about it 
[21:07] <@mrcoolbp> looks that way = / 
[21:08] <+NCommander> THe fact is, at some point, something is going to have to give, and trust that things will play out 
[21:08] <+NCommander> hold on 
[21:09] <+NCommander> So 
[21:09] <+audioguy> Possible: issue everyone notes so there is some security for them that is official. Get the board up to size. 
[21:09] <+NCommander> Here's the question we need to ask 
[21:09] <+audioguy> (everyone owed) 
[21:10] <+NCommander> Do we as an organization trust ourselves to self-govern without going E-VIL to the point we can properly bootstrap a parent NFP 
[21:10] <+NCommander> which in turn has members elected from the community? 
[21:10] <+NCommander> If we do, then I think we see a course here 
[21:10] <+matt_> audioguy, issuing a debt instrument would require registration with the SEC, i believe, since we are a corporation. (it's easier for a natural person). 
[21:10] <+NCommander> If we don't, then I think we should go with matt_'s plan and hope matt_ and I can act as an anchor 
[21:11] <+audioguy> matt_: I don't think that is required for an ordinary promissory notes. Corporations use those every day. 
[21:12] <+matt_> audioguy, they do use them every day, but they comply with all securities laws or get in big trouble :) 
[21:12] <+audioguy> With not stock attached these are jusy ordinary biusiness loans. 
[21:12] <@mrcoolbp> "loans" are regulated 
[21:13] <@Bytram> NCommander: sounds good. seems to bypass much of the quicksand... yet, when the time comes that the NFP has been bootstrapped... then what? the NFP buys out the stock, keeps an eye on the PBC, and we're done? 
[21:13] <+audioguy> From banks. 
[21:13] <+matt_> fwiw, i agree with NCommander's summary of the issue, above. 
[21:13] <@mrcoolbp> me too 
[21:13] <+NCommander> Bytram, so, in my original plan, the NFP was board-only 
[21:14] <+NCommander> I think we need to seriously look at a member board vs. board-only 
[21:14] <@Bytram> I remember, yes. 
[21:14] <+NCommander> (members elect the borad of the NFP) 
[21:14] <+NCommander> (the NFP acts as oversight of the B-corp) 
[21:14] <+NCommander> Our watchdog so to speak 
[21:14] <@Bytram> nod nod 
[21:15] <+NCommander> Bytram, the NFP was envisioned with broader goals. the PBC exists primarily to run SN and its assets 
[21:15] <+NCommander> The NFP was more on freedom of press, etc. 
[21:15] <@Bytram> agreed. 
[21:16] <@Bytram> the NFP was the goal; the PBC was a *means* to get there, and the stock was a *means* to get the PBC bootstrapped to be able to pay the lawyers to ... =) 
[21:16] <+NCommander> Eh, on that last bit 
[21:17] <@Bytram> ugh. let me retry 
[21:18] * NCommander is not going to force anyone's hand here 
[21:18] <+NCommander> But I think we need to come to a decision 
[21:18] <@Bytram> nvm, I'm stuck in a recursive loop. :/ 
[21:18] <+NCommander> Else we throw it to the community and let all hell break loose 
[21:18] * NCommander however feels if we do that, we put it in terms of oversight 
[21:18] <+NCommander> THere's of course no promise the community will not get indigestion on this 
[21:18] * mrcoolbp hums stuck in the middle with you 
[21:19] <+TheMightyLaptop> oh they'll go apeshit and get their rage on 
[21:19] * Bytram hums along - steeler's wheel, iirc 
[21:19] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: nod nod 
[21:19] <+NCommander> TheMightyLaptop, probably, its a pity I'm out of community sized pepto-bismol 
[21:19] * matt_ likes throwing things to the wise community. my only concern, though, is that having stockholders to provide oversight of the board won't work unless >50% of the stockholders agree that there should be stockholders to provide oversight to the board :/ 
[21:20] <@Bytram> matt_: nailed it. 
[21:20] <+NCommander> Ok 
[21:20] <+NCommander> Lets throw it to the community 
[21:20] <+matt_> NCommander, so you really can't recuse yourself from this one... 
[21:20] <+NCommander> I think thats the only thing we can do at this point 
[21:20] <@Bytram> without stock, the vision was the NFP would provide oversight to the board, right? 
[21:20] <+NCommander> I'll vote aye to whatever the winds blow 
[21:20] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so let's go for it 
[21:20] <+TheMightyLaptop> we're so gonna lose community members over this 
[21:21] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I"m assuming you'll dazzle us with your novel-writing skills again? 
[21:21] * NCommander warms up the typewriter 
[21:21] <@Bytram> hold on a sec 
[21:21] <+audioguy> What we are missing is a number of very specifc options. 
[21:21] <+NCommander> I was about to get to that 
[21:21] <+NCommander> :-) 
[21:21] <+audioguy> Throw thjat to the community you will just get confusion 
[21:22] <+NCommander> I think we have a few proposals on the table 
[21:22] <+NCommander> 1. Matt's plan, as is 
[21:22] <+NCommander> 2. Proportional ownership across the staff, accepting the various cavaets that go with it 
[21:22] <+NCommander> (and the 50% issue) 
[21:22] <+NCommander> 3. NCommander's proposal, which is essentially "do nothing" 
[21:23] <+NCommander> sorry 
[21:23] <+NCommander> do nothing, then setup a NFP 
[21:23] <+NCommander> 4. Create a community advocation position or two on the board, with the understanding that its only under the boards goodwill that its respected 
[21:24] <+NCommander> I think that sums up the ideas that have been floating 
[21:24] <@Bytram> NCommander: I apologize, but what was matt_'s plan again? (a summary would suffice) 
[21:24] <+TheMightyLaptop> tell you right now they're going to want to be able to buy in too. better have an answer for that on tap. 
[21:24] <@mrcoolbp> some of those can overlap right? 
[21:25] <+matt_> Bytram, NCommander: matt_ would like the opportunity to edit the section on "matt_'s plan" before it goes live :) 
[21:25] <@Bytram> np 
[21:25] <+NCommander> TheMightyLaptop, tha twould by definition make us publicly taded 
[21:25] <+NCommander> Lets NOT IPO :-P 
[21:26] <+NCommander> *traded 
[21:26] <@Bytram> NCommander: yes, let's NOT. 
[21:26] <+TheMightyLaptop> not a suggestion just a warning to have an answer ready. 
[21:26] * NCommander feels a cloud of doom over his head 
[21:26] <+matt_> things only go bad when you're "not expecting torches and pitchforks", iirc ;) 
[21:27] <@Bytram> matt_: but seriously, can you please summarize what your plan was... broad strokes are okay, I'm just drawing a complete blank atm 
[21:27] * juggs swoops across the sky gathering all clouds of doom 
[21:27] <+NCommander> Bytram, matt_'s plan was issue stock to me and himself 
[21:27] <+matt_> Bytram, to summarize matt_'s plan: 
[21:28] <+matt_> simultaneously do the following 3 things: 
[21:28] <+matt_> 1. increase size of board from 3 to 5-7 directors. 
[21:28] <+matt_> 2. create board-level position of "Community Advocate" with veto power. 
[21:29] <+matt_> 3. issue equal number of shares of stock to NC and matt_ to create a means for providing oversight of the board. 
[21:29] <+NCommander> point three is the one in contention 
[21:29] <+NCommander> */just saying* 
[21:29] <@Bytram> matt_: thanks! 
[21:30] <@mrcoolbp> I'm going to need to adjourn soon, 2.5 hours already 
[21:30] <+matt_> true, but just wanted to be clear that my plan is not: issue shares of stock, and maintain stranglehold on board, etc. ;) 
[21:30] <@Bytram> question on point 2. ... is it necessary for the 'Community Advocate' to have veto power? what if we had, say, two or even three positions, with normal voting powers. would be enough of a counterforce, no? 
[21:30] <+NCommander> matt_, grow a beard, and stroke a white cat? 
[21:31] * matt_ strokes his coffee++ mug 
[21:31] <+NCommander> actually, stepping back a moment 
[21:31] <+NCommander> Veto is a little iffy for me 
[21:31] <+NCommander> Conceptially, I agree, but ... 
[21:31] <@mrcoolbp> what about what Bytram suggested above? 
[21:31] * NCommander nods 
[21:32] <+audioguy> With a larger, more diverse board, that position is less needed. 
[21:32] * Bytram smiles 
[21:32] <+matt_> Bytram, veto would allow the board to expand arbitrarily. 
[21:33] <+NCommander> matt_, I think maybe something closer to the ability to force a referium 
[21:33] <@Bytram> matt_: allow? I think you mean *prevent* the board from expanding arbitrarily (i.e. to sufficent size to dilute the power of the advocate(s)) 
[21:33] <+NCommander> vs. a flat veto 
[21:33] <@Bytram> hrmmmm. 
[21:33] <@paulej72> a community member with veto with no overide can be a evil as anyone 
[21:33] <+matt_> Bytram, oh, i mean that if a Community Advocate has veto power, then that power is not diluted as the board grows. 
[21:34] <@Bytram> paulej72: just a different person who can be E-VIL. 
[21:34] <+matt_> paulej72, which is why we need stockholders to provide oversight of the Community Advocate too :) 
[21:34] <+TheMightyLaptop> s'a hell of a lot of power for one person though 
[21:34] <@Bytram> matt_: ah, I see. thanks! 
[21:34] <+juggs> It also makes no sense if the existing board elects the Community Advocate 
[21:34] * NCommander kicks the internet 
[21:34] <+audioguy> Roman Tribunes. 
[21:34] <+matt_> juggs, the Community Advocate should be directly elected by the communiity. 
[21:34] <+audioguy> two 
[21:34] <+juggs> nod 
[21:34] <+NCommander> I smell a voting issue croping up 
[21:35] <+juggs> oh $deity 
[21:35] <@Bytram> okay, I apologize for the side-tracking.... just wanted to get it clear in my mind what the item was. carry on! 
[21:35] <@paulej72> but should a community advocate have a unconditional veto power 
[21:35] <@mrcoolbp> we are thinking no 
[21:35] <+matt_> paulej72, that way they would not be able to actually _make_ policy, but they would be able to overrule any policy changes. 
[21:36] <+matt_> such as closing the source, for example. 
[21:36] <@paulej72> they could also block every normal business item as well 
[21:36] <+matt_> if they do that, the board will appeal to the stockholders to have them replaced. 
[21:36] * NCommander notes board == stockholders 
[21:37] <+NCommander> In this case 
[21:37] <+matt_> which is why item 1. is increasing the board size :) 
[21:37] <+matt_> and so, the circle is complete :) 
[21:37] * NCommander exhales 
[21:37] <+NCommander> Ok 
[21:37] <@Bytram> okay, can we at least all agree that there is no obvious, foolproof solution? 
[21:37] <+NCommander> I think I got it 
[21:37] <+TheMightyLaptop> quick point. with only two stockholders it's going to look awefully like an elite club if you boot a community advocate. 
[21:37] <+NCommander> Bytram, I think I can ack that 
[21:38] <@Bytram> IOW, there's gonna be some holes no matter what, let's just and keep 'em small. 
[21:38] <@Bytram> s/just/just try/ 
[21:38] <+matt_> TheMightyLaptop, which provides a strong disincentive for the stockholders to act. 
[21:38] <+matt_> which is good. 
[21:39] <+NCommander> Ok 
[21:39] <+NCommander> I think I have enough to write this up 
[21:39] <+NCommander> Lets try and get this out the door on Monday 
[21:39] <@Bytram> and, at the moment, and after all this discussion, barring any surprises, I'm thinking matt_'s proposal looks good to me. 
[21:39] * TheMightyLaptop nods 
[21:39] <+audioguy> With only two stockholders, and a larger board, power devolves from the board to the two stockholders, effectively giving them a more powerful voice if they are also on the board. 
[21:40] <@Bytram> it's not perfect, but it seems less imperfect than the others we've discussed. 
[21:40] * NCommander once again feels like the third wheel 
[21:41] <+NCommander> But I think the only way we get out of this without resentment on all sides is if we poll the community 
[21:41] <@Bytram> so, add one more point to matt_'s proposal: 4. The board works to establish an NFP and transfer it's control to the NFP ASAP. 
[21:41] <@Bytram> i.e. the stock goes away (bought out with swag sales, e.g.) 
[21:42] * Bytram is sure matt_ has more legally valid wording 
[21:42] <@Bytram> . 
[21:42] <+NCommander> Bytram, nothing can force the stock going away 
[21:42] <+NCommander> or at least nothing we can realistically do 
[21:42] * matt_ would definitely like more detail in that item before adding it to a proposal (e.g., who is overseeing the NFP, etc.) 
[21:43] <@Bytram> well, if the stock was owned by the NFP, we'd be good, right? 
[21:43] <+TheMightyLaptop> NCommander, sell at an enormous loss 10x what was issued to you two to the nfp then issue no more. boom. solved. 
[21:44] * NCommander nods 
[21:44] <+NCommander> Let me get this written up 
[21:44] <+NCommander> We'll take it to email 
[21:44] <+matt_> Bytram, meaning let's think about how to set up a non-evil NFP, as not all NFPs are automatically good. 
[21:44] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: there's an upper bound on the number of shares the PBC can issue. 2x would suffice. 
[21:44] <+juggs> Why should NCommander and matt_ take a financial hit on what they have laid out this far? 
[21:44] <+TheMightyLaptop> nod nod 
[21:44] <@Bytram> matt_: agreed! 
[21:44] <+juggs> thus* 
[21:45] <+TheMightyLaptop> juggs, nobody said we can't then buy back for a higher price. 
[21:45] <+NCommander> >.>; 
[21:45] * NCommander is willing to take a fincancal hit ot escape this meeting 
[21:45] <+NCommander> :-) 
[21:45] <+audioguy> I do not think they should take a financial hit. I would refer a note to stock to give them something valid as a promise of payment. 
[21:45] <+TheMightyLaptop> har 
[21:45] <@paulej72> while I don’t want them to take a financial hit, there would be resentment if they made a profit from the stock 
[21:45] <+juggs> ok - I was reading out of context I think 
[21:45] <@Bytram> juggs: good point! I did not write what I meant above. the NFP could buy out matt_ & NCommander's stock and make them whole through the sale of swag or whatever. 
[21:45] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72: I agree with that statement 
[21:46] <+audioguy> Bytram, in other words, buy them out by issuing a note to be paid from swag sales. 
[21:46] <+matt_> paulej72, i think that both NCommander and I realize that that would be a pretty fast way to drive away our all-volunteer work force :) 
[21:46] <+TheMightyLaptop> nah, just wait for swag sales then buy them out with cash 
[21:47] <+audioguy> That could take a while. :-) 
[21:47] <@paulej72> matt_: but nothing in the orginal stock issue poropsal precluded that scenerio 
[21:47] <@Bytram> whateveer reasonably-legal thing that matt_ thinks will work, but basically get the stock out from being an issue atm (ceding the *control* to the PBC) whilst making matt_ and NCommander whole for their $ investments. 
[21:48] * NCommander exhales 
[21:48] <+audioguy> ^^^ 
[21:48] <@Bytram> ugh! ceding control to the *NFP* 
[21:48] <+TheMightyLaptop> how bout we close the meeting up, let NC go write his novel, and argue about it unofficially 
[21:49] <+juggs> roll on the discussions about governance of the NFP :) 
[21:49] * NCommander is sitting here wondering if I should just ACK the most recent proposal 
[21:49] <+NCommander> I just dislike stirring up drama 
[21:49] <+TheMightyLaptop> NCommander, it would save a community shitstorm but it's your vote n you gotta live with it. 
[21:49] <+NCommander> Anyway, I'm going to go get on my bike 
[21:49] <@Bytram> NCommander: please, don't decide just so as to get the deciding done. I think we *have* made a lot of progress! 
[21:49] <+NCommander> Indeed 
[21:50] * Bytram has debugged far more nasty code. 
[21:50] <+NCommander> In eithe rcase, we still have to let the community know 
[21:50] <+matt_> shall we reconvene this weekend for more discussion? 
[21:50] * NCommander twiches 
[21:50] <+juggs> nods - much better meeting this time. 
[21:50] * NCommander twiches more 
[21:50] <+matt_> or have we discussed to death? 
[21:50] <+NCommander> matt_, lets aim for sunday 
[21:50] <@mrcoolbp> sunday night might work for me 
[21:50] <+NCommander> Just to discuss my novel 
[21:50] <@mrcoolbp> 8pm EST? 
[21:50] <@Bytram> I can do AM (EDT) have evening shifts both sat and sun. 
[21:51] <@Bytram> juggs: agreed. 
[21:51] <+matt_> NCommander, ok. when do you think a draft will be ready? 
[21:51] <+juggs> Motions to have all times discussed as UTC :P 
[21:51] <+NCommander> actually 
[21:51] <+NCommander> Lets do something useful 
[21:51] <@mrcoolbp> oh? 
[21:52] <+NCommander> Official proposal: All times for meetings and such should be listed in UTC 
[21:52] <+matt_> with edt in parentheses? ;) 
[21:52] <+NCommander> ... though that actually might require a bylaw amendment >.>; 
[21:52] <+NCommander> matt_, great, we can use EDT when you're in EST 
[21:52] <+NCommander> *EVIL LAUGH* 
[21:52] * Bytram seems to recall we already generally do that (with a couple other TZs added for clarity) 
[21:53] <@paulej72> crutchy mountain time 
[21:53] <+NCommander> AKADT :-) 
[21:53] <@mrcoolbp> okay so what midnight UTC Sunday? 
[21:53] <+juggs> Bytram, they seem to get listed as EDT / EST with UTC in parenthesis. 
[21:54] <+NCommander> juggs, that's because almost everyone is in EDT 
[21:54] <+NCommander> on staff 
[21:54] <+juggs> Errr... really? 
[21:54] <+NCommander> audioguy, myself, cosurgi, janirock are the outlyers 
[21:54] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: yup 
[21:54] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, midnight UTC Sunday works for me. 
[21:54] <@Bytram> So, though I am not on the board per se, I would *really* like to continue to participate... is there a chance we could take a day off for NCommander to write his novel, and reconvene Sunday 2014-09-24 at 14:00 UTC? (== 10:00 EDT) 
[21:54] <+juggs> fair enough 
[21:55] <+NCommander> I'm in AKDT (theorically), audioguy is PDT, cosurigi and janirock are UTC/UTC+1 
[21:55] <+NCommander> Everyone else is in EDT 
[21:55] <@Bytram> ohhhh... wait a minunte... might be able to do that! hold on 
[21:55] <+NCommander> Hence why its our defacto official time 
[21:55] == pbnjoe [~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #staff 
[21:56] <@paulej72> stats say most of the users are EST too 
[21:56] * juggs shakes a fist at TZ nonsense then calms down 
[21:56] <@Bytram> matt_: midnight UTC sunday?? is that still sunday in EDT? 
[21:56] <+juggs> I thought our visitors were fairly spread paulej72 
[21:56] <@mrcoolbp> ug 
[21:56] <+NCommander> juggs, about half are US based, the rest is elsewhere 
[21:56] <+matt_> Bytram, i don't know, mrcoolbp said it first, i was just agreeing with him :) 
[21:57] <+matt_> i believe it is 8pm EDT. 
[21:57] <@paulej72> sunday 
[21:57] <+juggs> lol - I only brought it up as an amusing aside - I should have known better. 
[21:58] <@paulej72> Midnight is technically the next day 
[21:58] <@Bytram> paulej72: thank-you! 
[21:58] <@Bytram> hence my question. 
[21:58] <+juggs> feck - schedule it for 23:59 then 
[21:58] <@paulej72> easier to use 00-24 and it fixes itself 
[21:59] <@Bytram> so Sunday 2014-08-24 at 23:59 (UTC) == Sunday @ 7:59 PM, EDT. 
[21:59] <+NCommander> If I become dictator of the world, the first thing I'm doing is ambolishing timezones 
[21:59] <+NCommander> and then instituting metric time :-P 
[21:59] <@Bytram> and install a sun-dial in every yard =) 
[22:00] <@paulej72> UNCT Univerisal NCommander time 
[22:00] <+NCommander> I give you guys all a kilosecond to decide when our next meeting is :-P 
[22:00] <@Bytram> Okay, *that* I can do. 
[22:00] <+juggs> we could do with another time standard... we are surely lacking in candidates 
[22:00] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ can we adjourn 
[22:00] <@mrcoolbp> ? 
[22:00] <+NCommander> second 
[22:01] <@mrcoolbp> this went way longer then I expected, I need to take care of some things before bed 
[22:01] <+matt_> Aye! 
[22:01] <@mrcoolbp> Aye!

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Board of Directors Meeting - August 20 2014

2016-10-11T21:36:27Z

Sir Finkus:

{{log}}
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> ------------------====Staff & Board Meeting Starts NOW====----------------------- 
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ would you like to take the floor? 
[19:00] * juggs asks who is chairing and who is minuting 
[19:00] * NCommander can chair 
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> second 
[19:00] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, umm. would you like to go over the issues from the wiki? 
[19:00] <+matt_> third 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ I'd like to focus on the stock proposal 
[19:01] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, ok. 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> if we have time we can visit other topics for which I'm prepared to speak on 
[19:01] <+matt_> so, let me say one thing about that: 
[19:01] <@NCommander> Can someone bring up the link to the wiki? 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> sec 
[19:01] * NCommander is having searching issues 
[19:02] <@mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting 
[19:02] <@mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Mechanisms_for_the_Transfer_of_Assets_to_SoylentNews_PBC 
[19:02] <@mrcoolbp> lets focus on this one first though ^ 
[19:02] <+matt_> For the record, if we can't come up with a better option by next Monday, I will offer to donate the assets that I got from B. to the corp., free of charge. 
[19:03] <@NCommander> matt_, regardless of what happens, I do want to make sure you're at least compinisating for time and effort 
[19:03] <@NCommander> We have a bad tendency to rathole on the stock issue, so I'm going to put it last, if that's ok 
[19:03] <+matt_> nevertheless, we are being held up on two important fronts: wildcard certs and fundraising. 
[19:03] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander sure, your the chair = ) 
[19:03] <@NCommander> Let's go right down the list 
[19:04] <@mrcoolbp> Issue 1: Add support for crypto-currency via bitpay.com or gocoin.com for Subscription payment method 
[19:04] <@NCommander> !topic Add support for crypto-currency via bitpay.com or gocoin.com for Subscription payment method 
[19:04] <@NCommander> .... forgot we don't have a meeting bot 
[19:04] <@mrcoolbp> = ( 
[19:04] <@NCommander> So, if we're not directly handling bitcoin, we should theorically be exempt from capital gains stuff 
[19:04] <@NCommander> BUT 
[19:04] <@NCommander> Its not 100% clear 
[19:05] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #staff 
[19:05] <@NCommander> I did throw this question back to my accountant, and I got a resulting "I dunno" 
[19:05] <+Bytram> .op 
[19:05] == mode/#staff [+o Bytram] by juggler 
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> .op matt_ 
[19:05] == mode/#staff [+o matt_] by juggler 
[19:05] == Bytram changed the topic of #staff to: Add support for crypto-currency via bitpay.com or gocoin.com for Subscription payment method 
[19:05] <+audioguy> Suggest we table this til a later date as it may be complex and does nto seem likely to greatly help us immediately 
[19:05] <@mrcoolbp> second 
[19:06] <@NCommander> Item tabled 
[19:06] <@NCommander> Moving on 
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> we need to get an expert on that one 
[19:06] == NCommander changed the topic of #staff to: Currently our hosting costs are high for the amount of traffic we have, is there any way we can reduce that with minimal drawbacks? I realize this has been discussed before, and that our current setup allows us some room for growth, but as I understand additional nodes could be spun up as needed 
[19:06] <@NCommander> So, I talked with paulej72 on this one 
[19:06] <@Bytram> point of order... the motion was seconded, but properly needs a vote to table it. 
[19:06] <@NCommander> Oops 
[19:06] <@NCommander> Vote to table the cryptocoin discussion? 
[19:06] <@NCommander> Aye 
[19:06] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:06] <+audioguy> aye 
[19:07] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:07] * NCommander notes technically we're in the board meeting half of this 
[19:07] <@NCommander> Motion tabled 
[19:07] <+juggs> wait - who gets to vote lol 
[19:07] * Bytram asks: is this a board meeting or staff meeting 
[19:07] <@mrcoolbp> both = ) 
[19:07] <@Bytram> i.e. who can vote? 
[19:07] <@matt_> also, keep in mind that that means we will clear the item from the wiki. 
[19:07] <@NCommander> This is board meeting ATM, then we cascidate into staff meeting 
[19:07] <+audioguy> This is astff mtg, are there not other staff here who should be voting? 
[19:07] <+audioguy> staff mtg 
[19:07] * matt_ is confused about that as well... 
[19:08] <@Bytram> so: as this is currently the Board Meeting, matt_ mrcoolbp and NCommander are the only ones who can vote. 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> correct 
[19:08] <@NCommander> My intent was to run a normal board meeting, then have a staff meeting directly following 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^ 
[19:08] <@NCommander> Board == business stuff + legal stuff 
[19:08] <+audioguy> Oh, then sorry, I thought this was staff mtg 
[19:08] <@NCommander> staff == internal matters 
[19:08] <@Bytram> k 
[19:08] <@NCommander> audioguy, your input is welcome, and you're welcome to parcipate 
[19:08] <@NCommander> Just voting is limited during board meetings 
[19:08] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: that will follow 
[19:09] <+audioguy> OK. 
[19:09] <@NCommander> So 
[19:09] <+juggs> Aye! 
[19:09] <@NCommander> Repeating the topic 
[19:09] <@NCommander> Currently our hosting costs are high for the amount of traffic we have, is there any way we can reduce that with minimal drawbacks? I realize this has been discussed before, and that our current setup allows us some room for growth, but as I understand additional nodes could be spun up as needed 
[19:09] <@NCommander> I discussed this with paul at some length 
[19:10] <@NCommander> We've got our own self-rolled backup service to oxygen which is pretty much on par with what Linode is offering and cheaper to boot, so after I get it documented, and others are happy they otherstand it, we can nix the Linode backups 
[19:10] <@NCommander> Which will save about $40 USD per month 
[19:10] <+TheMightyBuzzard> yay moneys 
[19:10] <@paulej72> but 
[19:10] <@NCommander> paulej72, but? 
[19:10] <@paulej72> we need to upgrade boron to a 4G 
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> ....which would cost more I'm guessing 
[19:11] <@NCommander> ANother $20 USD 
[19:11] <@Bytram> paulej72: 4G? as in 4 GB of RAM? 
[19:11] <@NCommander> YEah 
[19:11] <@NCommander> Linode 4096 
[19:11] <@mrcoolbp> savings of $20/month total 
[19:11] <@NCommander> Well, there's other hanging fruit we can kill 
[19:11] <@paulej72> doubles the cpus and doubles the network bandwidth 
[19:12] <+FunPika> Any nodes that have more than what they need that could be downgraded? 
[19:12] <@NCommander> paulej72, the internal should be the same no matter what. bandwidth is for external 
[19:12] <@NCommander> FunPika, the only thing that isn't "cheapest" is the production nodes 
[19:12] <@NCommander> In terms of killing nodes 
[19:12] <@mrcoolbp> which is actually 4 nodes right? 
[19:13] <@mrcoolbp> 2 front, 2 back? 
[19:13] <@NCommander> We have 9 total, plus offsite backup machine which is oxgeyn 
[19:13] <@paulej72> NCommander; I need to confim the network as I wan not seeing that, but I may have not have been using the interal addresses 
[19:13] <@NCommander> 2 front, 2 back, 1 slashd + misc (boron) 
[19:13] <@NCommander> RIght now, hydrogen is out of service 
[19:14] <@NCommander> DUe to slashcode limitations, we can't do hotfailback, so we're not getting too much out of 2 back, but I intend to fix this with the next major site upgrade 
[19:14] <@Bytram> though average performance is interesting, how are these holding up under peak load? 
[19:14] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^ 
[19:14] <@NCommander> MySQL 5.6 added support for fulltext searching to InnoDB, so I think we can go and dump MyISAM across the board 
[19:14] <@Bytram> dump ==> remove? 
[19:14] <@NCommander> Yeah 
[19:14] <@Bytram> nod nod 
[19:15] <@NCommander> That would give us hot failback, and allow for easier node servicing and upgrading 
[19:15] <@paulej72> the forntends and boron are mostly ram limited at the momemt. they swap a lot. 
[19:15] <@NCommander> paulej72, fluorine is swapping? 
[19:15] <@NCommander> Ugh 
[19:15] <@NCommander> -_-; 
[19:15] <@NCommander> If we have to upgrade those again, we might be better off looking for dedicated servers 
[19:15] <@paulej72> Gluster is ram hog 
[19:15] <+TheMightyBuzzard> and ways to trim additional disk writes to gluster directories 
[19:16] <@Bytram> NCommander: or, see if there's something we can reduce/remove to lessen the memory pressure. 
[19:16] <@paulej72> Not sure if that can be tuned to use less 
[19:16] <+audioguy> I am wondering about how many virtual servers == 1 hardware server, and if we might be better off doing this ourslves. 
[19:16] <@NCommander> audioguy, Linode was a "best choice at the time" 
[19:16] <+TheMightyBuzzard> rss is low hanging fruit there, we should be able to get rid of an every 10m slashd task that writes to the htdocs folder 
[19:16] <@NCommander> If we can get signficant saving/something going elsewhere 
[19:16] <@paulej72> vertual servers allow use easy redundancy 
[19:16] <@NCommander> I suggest we explore it 
[19:17] <@NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that runs on boron though 
[19:17] <+audioguy> But at the time we did not have so many machines 
[19:17] <@NCommander> Well, there are some machines we can get rid of 
[19:17] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, still hits gluster 
[19:17] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so who will explore Alternate Hosting? 
[19:17] <@mrcoolbp> need a volunteer 
[19:17] * TheMightyBuzzard puts that aside for now 
[19:17] * NCommander looks at audioguy 
[19:18] <@NCommander> ... 
[19:18] * juggs mentions Digital Ocean at this juncture. 
[19:18] <+audioguy> Thinking... :-) I can do it, but I don't usually use anything but may own hardware, so someone else might know the field better. 
[19:18] * Bytram suggests we make an "Ask Soylentnews" story about it. 
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> not a bad idea 
[19:18] <@NCommander> Vote "Throw it to the community?" 
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[19:18] <+TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, meta, i like it. 
[19:18] <+audioguy> Good idea 
[19:18] <@NCommander> Aye 
[19:18] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:18] <@mrcoolbp> Aye 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> passes 
[19:19] <@NCommander> Ok, I guess I'll take the action item to write it up 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> thanks 
[19:19] <@NCommander> In other terms on this front 
[19:19] <@NCommander> We have some things we can downsize to reduce the number of nodes 
[19:19] <+juggs> Also would it be worth setting up some mrtg / nagios type monitoring to keep track of the resources on the various servers over time? 
[19:19] <@NCommander> We can probably loose two for another $40 dollars of savings, (merging nitrogen and carbon into beryllium) 
[19:19] <@paulej72> move beryllium stuff to nitrogen and kill bery 
[19:20] <@NCommander> juggs, we have icingia setup for awhile, but I tihnk it broke, and xlefay had vanished into the void 
[19:20] <@paulej72> do not keep bery it is the devil 
[19:20] <@NCommander> Ok 
[19:20] <@NCommander> Maybe retire Bery, and keep carbon :-P 
[19:20] <@paulej72> it is the odd man out being centos 
[19:20] <+audioguy> :-) 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> so, prospective $60/mo savings, that's something 
[19:20] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, probably more 
[19:20] <@NCommander> if we're careful 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> great 
[19:20] <@NCommander> lithium is too valuable to axe 
[19:21] <@NCommander> Beyond that, I don't see much in the low hanging fruits department 
[19:21] <@mrcoolbp> sounds good. Thanks NCommander 
[19:21] <+audioguy> the lists should be on staff. 
[19:21] <+audioguy> boron 
[19:22] <@NCommander> audioguy, there's a list of stuff and nodes on the wiki, I just don't see what else we could cut without impacting crap 
[19:22] <@paulej72> move mail to boron, other stuff to carbon 
[19:22] <+audioguy> I am not disagreeing 
[19:22] <@NCommander> I think the specifics are out of scope here, this is "lets save some money :-)" 
[19:22] <@NCommander> Let's leave further discussion to the mailing list and/or staff meeting 
[19:23] <@NCommander> Moving onto the next item down the line 
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> agreed 
[19:23] <+audioguy> Agree, this is for a sysops/dev meeting 
[19:23] == NCommander changed the topic of #staff to: Enrol in the SpiderOak Affiliate Program. See the ShareASale page for more information. 
[19:23] == NCommander changed the topic of #staff to: Enroll in the SpiderOak Affiliate Program. See the ShareASale page for more information. 
[19:23] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, this is your baby, so if you would :-) 
[19:23] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[19:23] <+juggs> http://www.shareasale.com/shareasale.cfm?merchantID=29362 << ShareASale page 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> https://spideroak.com/ does what is similar to dropbox with well recognized security 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> the link that juggs sent above describes the program I'm proposing 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> basically we refer people to spider oak and we get money 
[19:24] <@mrcoolbp> That's pretty much it 
[19:25] <@NCommander> So ... 
[19:25] <@NCommander> Opening a referals program is a bit iffy IMHO 
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> why's that? 
[19:25] <@NCommander> If we do it, we want to make sure what we're recommending is good 
[19:25] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i lurve this idea. extremely well targeted advertising of a product that our community partially already uses. 
[19:25] <+juggs> Q: Can existing SpiderOak users become referred? :) 
[19:25] <+audioguy> I doubt few of our users would be interested in this. Do a poll 
[19:25] <@NCommander> Also audioguy's point 
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> okay, maybe we run a poll then 
[19:25] <@NCommander> Unless we buy the referal on the FAQ, where do we want to hang it? 
[19:25] <@Bytram> "If you are not paying for it, then you are the product." -- what's the downside? 
[19:25] == SoyCow1098 [~3293445c@s-14-806-84-99.hsd2.tn.comcast.net] has joined #staff 
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> juggs:I'm not sure about your question but I doubt it 
[19:26] <+juggs> Bytram, their model is the upsell to paid tiers. 
[19:26] <@NCommander> "Disallowed sites include: Any illegal, porn, hate, etc... on your site, or on sites that you link to " 
[19:26] <@Bytram> juggs: thanks! 
[19:26] <+audioguy> We coould offer back services ourselves in the future, once things are stable and we actually have income. 
[19:26] <@NCommander> audioguy, the community bit my head off last time I brought that up 
[19:27] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, there's room on my screen right under the SoylentNews slashbox 
[19:27] <+audioguy> Then maybe not :-) 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: that seems like a lot of work/liability etc. 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> let's not worry about where to hang the referral link 
[19:27] <+TheMightyBuzzard> lil square badge or its own slashbox 
[19:27] * NCommander is mulling 
[19:27] <+audioguy> Everything connected to any biusiness is a lot of work and carries liability. :-) 
[19:27] <@Bytram> I would suggest that any such action on our part be noted as strinly being a referral instead of an endorsement... we should stick, as much as possible, to our PBC's goal. 
[19:27] <+juggs> audioguy, SpiderOak takes care of clientside encryption before upload... that's not easy to get right. 
[19:28] <@Bytram> s/stringly/strictly/ 
[19:28] <@NCommander> Bytram, I won't object to endorsing someone if the staff reviews it at length, and feel its something we'd recommend to our users 
[19:28] <@NCommander> As long as our policy is not to accept money FOR the endorsement 
[19:28] <+audioguy> That is why I like doing my own encryption :-) 
[19:28] * NCommander notes, for the record, audioguy would build a compiler with two sticks if he could :-P 
[19:29] <+audioguy> That is true. :-) 
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> Okay, well do we need to poll the community on this one? What do we think? 
[19:29] <@NCommander> Well, here's the points we need to discuss 
[19:30] <+juggs> I can do a brief write up on ~using~ SpiderOak on both linux and win7 if it helps at all. 
[19:30] <@NCommander> 1. We've made it very clear we're not doing ads unless we have to. Now, strictly speaking, this isn't an ad, but I want some feedback if it goes against the spirit of that 
[19:30] <@NCommander> 2. Make sure we're not tracking anyone, the referal should be a <a href> with locally hosted assets 
[19:30] <@Bytram> Nod nod. This would set a precedent, so I'd suggest we think this through as to what it would look like in a year or two. 
[19:30] <@NCommander> And Bytram stole point 3 
[19:31] <@Bytram> LOL! 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: can you look into point # 2 for us? 
[19:31] <@NCommander> As I said, I don't object, at least in concept, to this, but before we open pandoras box, lets make sure we know what we're doing 
[19:32] <+juggs> Good point NCommander - what is shareasale's relationship with Spider... 
[19:32] <+juggs> I'll take that action 
[19:32] <@NCommander> juggs, it might require an email to them 
[19:32] * NCommander notes things like GHostly usually doesn't always catch off-site hosted stuff 
[19:32] <+juggs> I think I can stretch to that :D 
[19:32] <@NCommander> :-) 
[19:32] <@NCommander> Awesome 
[19:32] <@Bytram> as to item #1, what makes this to NOT be an advert? Walks like a duck, ... it's an ad. Is it the *way* we get paid, the *timing*, or what? 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so we can mull and revisit once we get response from Juggs 
[19:33] <@Bytram> i that a motion? 
[19:33] * NCommander has a bit more to talk about 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> oh sorry = ) 
[19:33] <@NCommander> I think we need to define a general policy on this 
[19:33] <@NCommander> Since this question is going to repeat 
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: would this be SN Policy manual fodder, or a bylaws thing? 
[19:34] <@mrcoolbp> I'd guess the former 
[19:34] <@NCommander> Basically, do we refer folks to services (i.e., if we do a review of something, then I don't think anyone would object to sticking a referal link IN the review) 
[19:34] <@NCommander> If we do, do we limit it to when we refer/review things, or have a general purpose "referals" bar 
[19:34] <+juggs> as long as we are not getting back-handers 
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[19:34] <@matt_> NCommander, if we get paid in connection with a review, that could give the appearance of a conflict of interest. 
[19:34] <@NCommander> The former is pretty simple IMHO 
[19:35] == mj [~3293445c@s-14-806-84-99.hsd2.tn.comcast.net] has joined #staff 
[19:35] <@Bytram> NCommander: as long as it is *plainly* stated in the review that it *is* an affiliate link. 
[19:35] <+juggs> ohh - referrals - we would be getting backhanders lol 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: agreed 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Bytram, matt_: hence the need for a policy 
[19:35] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, ^^matt_. If we're going to advertise stuff we like, let's be up front about it being advertising. 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> absolutely 
[19:35] <@NCommander> Remember we want to be journalists, neutrality is our bread and butter :-) 
[19:35] <@Bytram> areed 
[19:35] <@Bytram> agreed 
[19:36] <@NCommander> So, I think the correct action here is we figure out what our policy is 
[19:36] <@NCommander> The board reviews it 
[19:36] <@NCommander> Then it goes into the SN Policy manual 
[19:36] <@NCommander> Who wants the task of writing something up about it? 
[19:37] * mrcoolbp looks at Bytram 
[19:37] * Bytram ponders 
[19:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, we should have several so we can take the best of each and argue about them. 
[19:37] <@NCommander> FOr and against? 
[19:37] <@NCommander> I like that 
[19:38] <@Bytram> I'm better at reviewing than composing; I'll gladly assist whomever drafts the original. 
[19:38] == LaminatorX [~63163961@22-50-35-25.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #staff 
[19:38] * NCommander is reminded of old babylon proverb: "Understanding is a three edged blade: their side, your side and the truth" 
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> hear, hear. 
[19:38] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, since you brought htis up, would you be willing to take the "for" side of the arguement on the advantages of doing this? 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> sure, I'll work with juggs 
[19:39] <@Bytram> hmmm, could make for an interesting 'story'... 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> if he isn't sick of me yet 
[19:39] <@NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, Bytram care to collobrate on the against? 
[19:40] * NCommander recommends at least 500+ words to 1k on both sides 
[19:40] <+TheMightyBuzzard> sure sure 
[19:40] <@Bytram> word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word word 
[19:40] <@Bytram> that's a start. 
[19:40] <+TheMightyBuzzard> oh, an NCommander post then. 
[19:40] <@NCommander> To be done by the next staff meeting :-P 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> k 
[19:40] <@Bytram> when's that? 
[19:40] <@NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, the community might get confused if its not XXXX words in article 
[19:40] <@NCommander> Bytram, thats a discussion point later :-) 
[19:40] <+TheMightyBuzzard> true true 
[19:41] <@Bytram> so long as it's at least a couple weeks away, I'd be willing. 
[19:41] <+juggs> OK - so to summarise - we want to review all available file lockers and assess their affiliate schemes? Did I get that right? 
[19:41] <+TheMightyBuzzard> you want this general or specific. if specific we'll need to collaborate with mrcoolbp and juggs 
[19:41] * Bytram notes the next staff meeting should be within the next 30 minutes or so. :( 
[19:42] * NCommander moves to speed this up 
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: I think we were just looking at spider oak for now, I guess we could look at others if we find them 
[19:42] <@NCommander> What I think we need is a review of SpiderOak Affiliate Program, thoughts on if we should even doing affilations, and the pro/cons against it 
[19:42] <@Bytram> oh! if that is what we were discussing, I need to politely decline... never used one. 
[19:42] <@NCommander> Gah 
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yeah I think we got the juicy bits on ths one already 
[19:42] <@Bytram> okay, that's better. 
[19:42] <+TheMightyBuzzard> gotcha 
[19:43] <@Bytram> more of a 'meta' discussion? 
[19:43] <+juggs> I suggest we take this offline to a working group. mrcoolbp, juggs, TheMightyBuzzard. 
[19:43] <@NCommander> The decision is more boardly put that if we should go down this road 
[19:43] <@NCommander> I don't thikn we know enough to say yes/no, and as matt_ said, this could comprimise our neutraity in some respects 
[19:43] <@NCommander> Furthermore, its something that can always be put off until we're near bankrupt :-) 
[19:43] <+TheMightyBuzzard> need a partner who is good with english. i'm too concise. 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> The 
[19:44] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: if we're doing the *meta* discussion, then I'm in. 
[19:44] <@Bytram> coffee++ 
[19:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 1 
[19:44] <+TheMightyBuzzard> cheers, Bytram 
[19:44] <+TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++ 
[19:44] <Bender> karma - coffee: 2 
[19:44] <@Bytram> lol 
[19:44] <+audioguy> Purely as a user, I would prefer just donating directly to soylent, without a third party scraping off a cut. I have seen this sentiment expessed by others in various discussion. Our user base is small and very loyal at this point, I cannot help but wonder if such schemes are premature. 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: we can all 4 work together as juggs suggested 
[19:44] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: that's the next topic of discussion kinda 
[19:44] <@Bytram> audioguy: that is one of the points that we will enumerate. 
[19:45] <@NCommander> If nothing else, (we hope) that will change, so must be prepared for the future 
[19:45] <+audioguy> ok :-) 
[19:45] <@Bytram> If I understand correctly, our *primary* goal is to gather pros [cons] and bring them to the board so *they* can make an informed decision. 
[19:45] <@NCommander> Ok, I think we discussed this to death, vote to move on? 
[19:45] <+juggs> I suggest a steering group to assess SpiderOak and possibly others. The output to be a review of the service and a suggested policy for adoption by the board. 
[19:45] <@NCommander> Bytram, bingo 
[19:46] <@Bytram> If something seems clear, we an make a recommendation, as well. 
[19:46] <@Bytram> s/an/can/ 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> juggs: yeah, I suggest the 4 of us work together on that front, that way we can move this meeting along 
[19:46] * NCommander nods 
[19:46] <@NCommander> Can we move on ? :-) 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I'll second 
[19:47] <@matt_> Aye! 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> Aye 
[19:47] == NCommander changed the topic of #staff to: Would we be better off just selling "gold stars" than swag? 
[19:47] * NCommander guesses this refers to some sort of badge or something on the site 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[19:47] <@paulej72> new subs have a gold star 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> Basically, we've thought up all these different ways of using 3rd parties to work with that will take a significant cut from our fundraising efforts. Could we instead "sell" a gold star (or whatever) 
[19:48] <+audioguy> yes, for now, but both would be good. 
[19:48] <@mrcoolbp> well then a platinum one 
[19:48] <+TheMightyBuzzard> you'd better not cancel it before i get a beer stein at christmas 
[19:48] == SoyGuest25584 [~AndChat14@mkry95-315-917-18.range07-172.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 
[19:48] * matt_ cradles his precious coffee++ mug 
[19:48] * NCommander needs to buy a coffee++ mug 
[19:48] * mrcoolbp puts on his shirt with UID 
[19:48] * NCommander really wishes he had UID -1 
[19:49] <@NCommander> Ok, on the serious front 
[19:49] * TheMightyBuzzard is probably ordering one of those shirts tonight 
[19:49] <@matt_> i think the idea with swag (and affiliates, for that matter) is that if it's something you would likely get anyway (like a coffee mug or shirt), why not get the SN version and help the site. 
[19:49] <@Bytram> or sell a 'membership certificate' or the like for some period of time... i.e. a subscription, but comes with a nice-lettered, frame-able certificate? 
[19:49] <@paulej72> I think the costs for swag is already done. We spent may hours getting artwork ready. Anything we get now is porfit 
[19:49] <@NCommander> paulej72, I think what mrcoolbp meant was "in addition to" 
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> Okay, I shouldn't have said "instead" 
[19:49] <@NCommander> so, my concern on this is we creating a "holier than thou" attitude 
[19:49] <+audioguy> Yes, I would not want to drop all the work done. 
[19:49] <@Bytram> from *my* perspective, I'm with paulej72; the work's put in, and it does NOT prevent us from offering other items. 
[19:49] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[19:50] <@NCommander> Granted, we have that with the sub star anyway 
[19:50] <@Bytram> NCommander: excellent point. 
[19:50] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, we did that when we didn't start with 4digit uids 
[19:50] <@NCommander> But $20 USD/yr is pretty cheap 
[19:50] <@Bytram> just note it in the user's page? 
[19:50] <@matt_> but we could also do a tiered subscription, where the only thing you get at different tiers is different colors of stars? 
[19:50] <@NCommander> matt_, the community was really really unhappy with the idea of teired subscriptions 
[19:50] <@matt_> like nonprofits have different levels of donors. 
[19:50] <+juggs> I thought the question was around whether selling a ~virtual~ star would be considered the same as a direct donation. 
[19:50] <@NCommander> juggs, that too 
[19:50] <@Bytram> matt_: what NCommander said. and then some 
[19:51] <@matt_> NCommander, i think they mainly reacted to the things that the tiers would represent, and being forced to be identified as having paid, iirc. 
[19:51] <@mrcoolbp> yeah I agree 
[19:51] * NCommander nods 
[19:51] <LaminatorX> We could send postcards out for under a buck if we need a tangible asset provided to not be a donation. 
[19:51] == Ethanol-fueled [~62b0c2de@cp88-216-234-862.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #staff 
[19:52] * NCommander tends to send postcards when he goes abroad 
[19:52] <@Bytram> I sensed a number of different reasons, but the general feeling that I got was: "Do. Not. Want." -- seemed anonymous donations were preferred 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: that would create "work" to do in meatspace 
[19:52] <@NCommander> We could always put me on the store, selling postcards from whatever remote places on Earth I am 
[19:52] <@NCommander> :-) 
[19:52] <+TheMightyBuzzard> there you go. officially NCommander-gathered postcard. 
[19:52] <@Bytram> "Soon to be a collector's item!" 
[19:52] <@NCommander> Make it a quality limited action 
[19:52] <@Bytram> Get. Yours. Noooow! 
[19:53] <+TheMightyBuzzard> or something anyway. shot glass, funny hat, something. 
[19:53] <@paulej72> get NCommander a SN post marker 
[19:53] <@NCommander> and charge $50 dollars for 10 :-P (given postage in some countries ...) 
[19:53] <LaminatorX> "Where in the World is NCommander?" 
[19:53] <@Bytram> getting back to the question at hand. Does anyone see any problem with our selling swag? 
[19:53] <@NCommander> Or the NCommander Party Pack. NCommander shows up to your house with a keg 
[19:53] <+TheMightyBuzzard> oooh, picture of NCommander with a shoe on his head in various locations. 
[19:53] <@NCommander> Bytram, no, we had a lot of support for the idea when it was pitched 
[19:53] <+juggs> NCommander == Scarlet Pimpernel :D 
[19:54] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I suspect we need to consult eiter a lawyer or CPA on the crytpo-currency issue, maybe we could ask about selling "colored stars" as well? 
[19:54] <@Bytram> so, 'gold stars' would be in *addition* to, rather than *instead of*, swag? 
[19:54] <@NCommander> I think one of our very first "big purchases" will be a CPA from the money we get from the Known-To-Be OK stuff 
[19:54] <@NCommander> Bytram, in addition 
[19:54] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp misspoke 
[19:54] <@mrcoolbp> yes that was a mis-type on my part 
[19:55] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, if you want to give the users who just want to donate more options, maybe expanding the "unobtanium edition" line to more than just a keychain? 
[19:55] <LaminatorX> I'm in favor of multiple vectors. Some will want anonymity, others will want cred, some will want swag, etc. 
[19:55] <@NCommander> LaminatorX, agreed 
[19:55] <@Bytram> LaminatorX++ 
[19:55] <Bender> karma - laminatorx: 5 
[19:55] <@NCommander> I also think there's money to be had from slashcode itself, especially now that UTF_8 actually works 
[19:55] <+juggs> How much are we shelling out to CPAs and lawyers to advise on this stuff that may not net a great deal at the end of the day? 
[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ possibly, but zazzle takes a big cut of that on the larger items 
[19:55] <@Bytram> is it not open-source? 
[19:55] <@NCommander> (hell, there might be an entire business on selling support to the code base) 
[19:55] <@NCommander> juggs, well, CPA is kinda essential come tax time 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[19:56] <+juggs> ok 
[19:56] <@NCommander> so that one isn't money down the hole ... so to speak 
[19:56] <@NCommander> *cough* 
[19:56] * Bytram hands NCommander a throat lozenge 
[19:56] <@NCommander> For stuff like this, its mostly all CPA 
[19:56] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, you'll likely need to pay someone if you're selling their admin/coding chops unless you're volunteering 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> good time for an update on the swag? 
[19:56] == prospectacle [~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has joined #staff 
[19:56] <@NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, that's a future discussion item 
[19:57] <@Bytram> ok, 'gold star'? 
[19:57] <+juggs> we could pimp TheMightyBuzzard out for profit! 
[19:57] <@NCommander> I actually am working on drafting our "next six months" plan in email, mrcoolbp has seen the start of a draft 
[19:57] <+audioguy> The simple truth is that the deck is stacked against small businesses and startups, and most do a little bending of the rules initially. If you obsess too much over this tuff it will kill you. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[19:57] <@NCommander> juggs, illegal in the states unless he lives in Rhode Island 
[19:57] * TheMightyBuzzard puts on his hot pants 
[19:57] <+juggs> NCommander, pimp out for coding work :P 
[19:57] <@matt_> audioguy, true, although most don't say that on a logged channel ;) 
[19:57] <LaminatorX> While it's OSS, there's a fair amount of know how required to get it running. That's where the value we could provide lies. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: can I provide a quick update on the swag store? 
[19:57] <@NCommander> audioguy, indeed 
[19:57] <@NCommander> mrcoolbp, the floor is yours 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> okay: 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> The store is ready to "launch", we are just waiting on the executive order. The link has been released to: [all staff memebers] and [a 'lucky' few that happened to be around on IRC recently]. 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> Despite that pool of approximately 30 people, we've received only *one* order and very little feedback (e.g. Pricing, Quality, Store graphics and navigation, Selection of products, etc.) 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> I realize there was a major hiccup in announcing the store "Alpha/Test launch" to staff, then saying "Wait don't order yet!" and then re-launcing the Alpha/Test and this may have created some "mistrust/disintrest" among staff, that may be a factor. 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> Nevertheless, I get the impression that this will be a minor source of revenue. Subsequently, I doubt it will significatly help SoylentNews support it self financially. I hope to be proven wrong on this. 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> Lastly, one person suggested that the royalty percentage should be close to 50% for most items. The thinking here: the main idea is to help support us financially, so the premium prices are justfied. However, I personally think this will discourage sales (i.e. our cheapest mug would be $28.95). I'm open to other opinions though. 
[19:58] <+audioguy> IF the goverment does not like us selling gold stars they will tell us, we will say oops, sorry, and that is that. they don't give a shit about us unles we A don't pay out taxes, B do something to blantent and public. 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> (that's it) 
[19:59] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: thanks to you and juggs (and any others I forgot) for putting this all together. 
[19:59] <+audioguy> I am not suggestimng anything specific. :-) 
[19:59] <@Bytram> I was waiting for the all clear to know when it was ready. 
[19:59] <@mrcoolbp> thank you sir. 
[20:00] <@Bytram> I still think that items which have some kind of "time-stamp" associated with them will boost sales. Limited edition -- don't miss out! 
[20:00] <+TheMightyBuzzard> nix the 50% idea. i'm staff and know ahead of time that it's really a donation and $20 for a coffee mug is already a little hurty. 
[20:00] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: we can expand on it later 
[20:00] <prospectacle> audioguy, you could have a few minor features that accompany a gold-start subscription, e.g. longer comment history on your user page, or two extra tags available in your journal. Then it's not just a donation. 
[20:00] == Ethanol-fueled [~62b0c2de@cp88-216-234-862.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #staff [] 
[20:00] <@Bytram> e.g. coffee mug: coffee++ \n [2014] 
[20:01] == mj [~3293445c@s-14-806-84-99.hsd2.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 
[20:01] <+TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, we can change the logo to match a theme every year end 
[20:02] <@Bytram> nod nod; details are not so important as is the concept. Like getting a 2-digit uid... 
[20:02] <+TheMightyBuzzard> or every SN birthday. whichever. 
[20:02] <@Bytram> exactly! 
[20:02] <@NCommander> Ugh 
[20:03] <@NCommander> sorry 
[20:03] * Bytram notes that an hour has elapsed 
[20:03] <+TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, good, bad, dumb idea? 
[20:03] <@NCommander> My laptop decided that was a perfectly good time to panic 
[20:03] <@NCommander> What did I miss? I saw mrcoolbp's summary 
[20:03] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i said the 50% was a bad idea and by suggested making swag limited edition by date acquired. 
[20:04] <@NCommander> Ulitmately, with both this and subscriptions 
[20:04] <@NCommander> Its hard to know how much (if any) revenue it will take 
[20:04] == NCommander [~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 
[20:04] <@Bytram> see the PM; I copy/pasted it ther. 
[20:05] == NCommander [~mcasadeva@2600:3c00::gkjo:ggkm:vshr:juyz] has joined #staff 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: we can make anything easily 
[20:05] <@Bytram> matt_: question as to running the meeting? what is quorum? 
[20:05] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 
[20:05] == NCommander [~mcasadeva@2600:3c00::gkjo:ggkm:vshr:juyz] has quit [Changing host] 
[20:05] == NCommander [~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has joined #staff 
[20:05] == mode/#staff [+v NCommander] by juggler 
[20:05] <+NCommander> .op 
[20:05] == mode/#staff [+o NCommander] by juggler 
[20:05] <@NCommander> Ugh 
[20:05] <@matt_> Bytram, so for a board meeting, a quorum constitutes a majority of the directors then in office. 
[20:05] <@Bytram> do *all* three board members need to be present for descions to hold weight? 
[20:06] <@Bytram> so, two out of three is sufficient? 
[20:06] <@matt_> Bytram, however, since we have not yet amended the bylaws to allow board meetings on irc, we've been taking advantage of the "action without a meeting" provision of our bylaws. 
[20:06] <@matt_> Bytram, which requires unanimity. 
[20:06] <LaminatorX> Do the bylaws have any rules for Staff meetings as distinct from Board meetings? 
[20:06] <+TheMightyBuzzard> matt_, slackers. 
[20:06] <@matt_> LaminatorX, the bylaws do not mention staff. 
[20:06] <@Bytram> LaminatorX: not to my recall; entirely separate area. 
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^ 
[20:07] <@matt_> LaminatorX, SoylentNews PBC Bylaws: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/SoylentNews_PBC_Bylaws 
[20:07] <LaminatorX> Thanks. 
[20:07] == NC|WebChat [~a6935821@ndnflnvjrd4nn578-fcm.mycingular.net] has joined #staff 
[20:07] <NC|WebChat> Something is seriously wrong on my end 
[20:07] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so looks like most are relatively happy with the Store/Prices, though they call for more items. Is that about right? 
[20:07] <NC|WebChat> mrcoolbp: please take over, I don't know how stable my connection will be on my end 
[20:08] * NC|WebChat is troubleshooting 
[20:08] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ can you chair? 
[20:08] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i second the "more items" idea. 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, sounds right. we can discuss the timed versioning nearer an anniversary. 
[20:08] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, sure! 
[20:08] <@Bytram> for the record, 'NC|webchat" is, presumably the same person as 'NCommander' 
[20:08] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ thanks 
[20:08] * NC|WebChat will kill his proxy in a moment and NickServ ID 
[20:08] == NCommander [~mcasadeva@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has quit [Client Quit] 
[20:09] == NC|WebChat has changed nick to NCommander 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ so I'm good with moving on to the next issue if you are 
[20:09] <+juggs> NC /ghost is your friend 
[20:09] <prospectacle> What if it's not a gold star, but instead you can choose your own icon from a list. Then you're selling a feature. 
[20:09] == NCommander [~a6935821@ndnflnvjrd4nn578-fcm.mycingular.net] has quit [Changing host] 
[20:09] == NCommander [~a6935821@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mcasadevall] has joined #staff 
[20:09] == mode/#staff [+v NCommander] by juggler 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> unless NCommander has anythign to add on the swag 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> prospectacle: I like that idea 
[20:09] <+NCommander> I don't, aside from the fact that we have no certainities on success 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[20:09] <@Bytram> prospectacle: interesting concept, but I think we could get lost in lots of implementation details. 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> * NCommander (~a6935821@ndnflnvjrd4nn578-fcm.mycingular.net) Quit (Changing host) 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> ooops 
[20:10] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, i suspect that shortly after the full launch of the swag store, you will get quite a bit of feedback from the community :) 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> .voice prospectacle 
[20:10] == mode/#staff [+v prospectacle] by juggler 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> <prospectacle> What if it's not a gold star, but instead you can choose your own icon from a list. Then you're selling a feature. 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ yes, I was hoping to avoid pitchforks 
[20:10] * mrcoolbp dawns pitchfork armor +8874 
[20:10] <@Bytram> is it generally agreed that we're generally in favor of offering *some kind* of site-based 'thing' in exchange for a subscription? 
[20:10] <+TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, we're not +m right now. i heard him fine. 
[20:10] <@Bytram> details to be determined later. 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> oh, I see 
[20:11] <+NCommander> Bytram: possibly 
[20:11] <+NCommander> We're getting ratholed 
[20:11] <+TheMightyBuzzard> personally i like the idea but shurg. 
[20:11] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: I think so, NCommander wanted an ACK from a CPA thing, but it's probably okay 
[20:11] <+NCommander> Right now, until we manage to get what we have going, its all just speculation 
[20:11] <@Bytram> I'd favor a CPA ack, too. 
[20:11] <+audioguy> We have many people who have offered to jusy donate in the past. It seems to me those should be taken care of first. Whether gold star or postcard. After that, we can try oout things like special privileges or graphics. 
[20:12] <+NCommander> audioguy: indeed 
[20:12] <@Bytram> audioguy++ 
[20:12] <Bender> karma - audioguy: 10 
[20:12] <+NCommander> RIght now, as I said, lets launch what we have, then come back next time and know where we need to expand 
[20:12] <+NCommander> I think we can move on, no? 
[20:12] <+TheMightyBuzzard> do eet 
[20:12] <@matt_> Aye! 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> Aye 
[20:12] <@Bytram> s, what was decided? 
[20:12] <@Bytram> s/s/so/ 
[20:12] <@paulej72> all of that is setup on one leve of subscriptions. if you want that chenged to multi level subs it is going to require a lot of work 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> .topic "What mechanism should we use to transfer important assets (accounts, domains, database, other rights, etc.) to the corporation? Here is a discussion of possible mechanisms" 
[20:12] == juggler changed the topic of #staff to: "What mechanism should we use to transfer important assets (accounts, domains, database, other rights, etc.) to the corporation? Here is a discussion of possible mechanisms" 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Mechanisms_for_the_Transfer_of_Assets_to_SoylentNews_PBC 
[20:13] <@Bytram> afk brb 
[20:13] <+audioguy> So the question is, what are we going to tell the next person who wants to donate? Buy a gold star on our site? 
[20:13] * NCommander hears sharks in the water 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: we're not quite there yet 
[20:13] <+TheMightyBuzzard> audioguy, that or an unobtanium keychain 
[20:13] <+NCommander> audioguy: I'd love to accept donations if possible. Too many unknown knowns 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> that will require some backend work 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> as per paulej72 above 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> we can't just Accept Donations currently 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> we need to be liscensed in all states 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> or registered or whatever 
[20:15] <+NCommander> folks 
[20:15] <+NCommander> We're already running over 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> yessir? 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> ah 
[20:15] <+juggs> register an office in pisspotamia and takedonations via that organ 
[20:15] <+audioguy> So let them donate on a page in (where we incorporated) 
[20:15] <@mrcoolbp> I have about 30 min before I gotta run off 
[20:15] <+NCommander> audioguy: its a more complicated isue than that; ping me after the meeting and we'll go into detail 
[20:15] <+audioguy> table this then 
[20:16] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:16] <+audioguy> ok 
[20:16] * NCommander is not trying to block discussions, but tick-tock :-/ 
[20:16] <+NCommander> Ok, the all powerful blocker on stuff 
[20:16] <@mrcoolbp> .topic "What mechanism should we use to transfer important assets (accounts, domains, database, other rights, etc.) to the corporation?" 
[20:16] == juggler changed the topic of #staff to: "What mechanism should we use to transfer important assets (accounts, domains, database, other rights, etc.) to the corporation?" 
[20:16] <@matt_> <@mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Mechanisms_for_the_Transfer_of_Assets_to_SoylentNews_PBC 
[20:16] <+NCommander> matt_: do you care to sum up the situation 
[20:16] <@matt_> sure: 
[20:17] <@matt_> basically, i think that the key concept is that we need to transfer some important assets to the corporation, as detailed on the above wiki page. 
[20:17] <@matt_> normally, this is done in connection with the issuance of stock, however, 
[20:18] <@matt_> at last Wednesday's meeting, we decided to explore alternatives 
[20:18] <@Bytram> back 
[20:18] <+NCommander> Do we have any reasonable alternatives? 
[20:18] * NCommander notes that the big hangup with stock was an issue of voiting power, not to rehash that entire discussion 
[20:19] <@matt_> well, in my opinion, no great ones. issuing bonds will place the corp. in debt, and would likely require registration and filing with the SEC... 
[20:19] * Bytram agrees 
[20:19] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, corporate bonds would eliminate that and could even be sold for $currencyOfChoice 
[20:19] <LaminatorX> SEC-- 
[20:19] <Bender> karma - sec: -1 
[20:19] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard: matt_ looked into it :-/ 
[20:19] <+TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod 
[20:19] <@matt_> writing a license (like a payment plan or "lease to own") would be quite complex. 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> i.e. we'd need an expert to do that ?" 
[20:20] <+audioguy> Whjy can't an ordinary promissory note be used? These are operating expenses, mostly. We are late paying out phone bill and someone paid it for us... 
[20:20] <+NCommander> Which would probably be the "sanest" approach from where I am sitting 
[20:20] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #staff 
[20:20] <+NCommander> matt_: is audioguy's point an option? 
[20:20] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, we could do it, but it misses a critical issue, in my opinion: 
[20:21] <@matt_> audioguy, if we default on the note, what happens? 
[20:21] <@matt_> audioguy, normally, this would be bankruptcy. 
[20:21] * NCommander notes if we default on the note, the assets are pretty worthless anyway 
[20:21] <+NCommander> .... shoot me for that pun 
[20:21] <+audioguy> What the rerms written in the note says. But no sec approval required 
[20:21] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, in my view it is important to establish the capital structure of the corp. 
[20:22] <@matt_> which means, having stockholders, for the following reason: 
[20:22] <+audioguy> For gods sake $2000 or so is penuts to most businesses. 
[20:22] <+NCommander> audioguy: I'm aware of that 
[20:22] <@matt_> without stockholders, there is no way to hold the board accountable for its actions. 
[20:22] <@mrcoolbp> Definition of 'Capital Structure' 
[20:22] <@mrcoolbp> A mix of a company's long-term debt, specific short-term debt, common equity and preferred equity. The capital structure is how a firm finances its overall operations and growth by using different sources of funds. 
[20:22] <@mrcoolbp> Debt comes in the form of bond issues or long-term notes payable, while equity is classified as common stock, preferred stock or retained earnings. Short-term debt such as working capital requirements is also considered to be part of the capital structure. 
[20:22] <@matt_> for example, SoylentNews PBC was set up for a specific public benefit purpose: 
[20:22] <+NCommander> matt_: and no different that a non-member non-for-profit 
[20:22] <@matt_> "The specific public benefit purpose of the Corporation is to engage in and promote free and open journalism through the production, publication, and community-sourced analysis and discussion of news and original and third-party-sourced works of fact and opinion. " 
[20:23] <@matt_> ^ that is in our certificate of incorporation. 
[20:23] <@matt_> without stockholders, there is no one who can require the board to adhere to that purpose. 
[20:23] <+TheMightyBuzzard> 'sa fair point 
[20:23] <@matt_> also, keep in mind the following: 
[20:23] <@matt_> there is a big difference betweeen SoylentNews (the site/community) and SoylentNews PBC (a Delaware public benefit corporation): 
[20:23] <+NCommander> Part of this is why I want to get directly involvement from the community on the board, via elections and such 
[20:24] <@matt_> SoylentNews (the site/community) can't be owned, because... ...it's people! 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: that's still possible 
[20:24] <@matt_> but SN PBC needs stockholders to hold the board accountable. 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I agree with you about disliking the condensing of powers but ^^ 
[20:24] <+NCommander> matt_: what holds the board of a NFP accountable? 
[20:24] <@matt_> remember that the PBC exists simply to manage the site's assets/business. 
[20:24] <LaminatorX> Perhaps board elections as a subscriber privilege? 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> yeah, nice. 
[20:24] <+NCommander> LaminatorX: that's dangerous terroritatory 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> oh, good point NCommander 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> $ Shall not give thee more voice 
[20:25] <+prospectacle> LaminatorX, then you can anonymously buy lots of subscriptions and (quasi)control the board 
[20:25] <+TheMightyBuzzard> s'why i suggested balancing the stock issued to NC/matt_ with an equal issuance to staff. got a check and balance right there. 
[20:25] <LaminatorX> Less so than voting be shares of stock perhaps. 
[20:25] <@Bytram> NCommander++ someone with $bignum could impose *their* view on the board and hence, the site. 
[20:25] <Bender> karma - ncommander: 19 
[20:25] <+audioguy> I do not think just two people omn the board is appropriate. It is simply too few. 
[20:26] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: there's issue with that too 
[20:26] <+NCommander> audioguy: three 
[20:26] <+TheMightyBuzzard> mrcoolbp, suck 
[20:26] * NCommander notes expanded the board is on my TODO 
[20:26] <@matt_> LaminatorX, the shareholders are like the supreme court. if there isnt one, then the board isn't accountable to the founding principles. 
[20:26] <@mrcoolbp> I think we should move towards 5 memebers 
[20:26] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: *nod* 
[20:26] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: agreed, but offtopic 
[20:26] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:26] <+audioguy> But ther proposal would have rediuced that from what I understand. Three is too few too, I suggest 5 as a minimum. 
[20:26] <LaminatorX> How does the gaming subs scenario compare risk wise to buying up shares? 
[20:27] <@matt_> if all decisions are made by elected officials, minority viewpoints are easily quashed. 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> Audioguy: That is not technically correct 
[20:27] <LaminatorX> Is our PBC close-held? 
[20:27] <+NCommander> LaminatorX: we have issued no stock as of date 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: i.e. the board still exists, I still ahave 33% 
[20:27] <+NCommander> The board has the option to do so per the bylaws 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> voting power 
[20:27] <+audioguy> mrcoolbp: I though I remembered you saying that 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> well, kinda 
[20:27] <@Bytram> as I see it, there's two different 'concepts' at play here. (1) how to keep the board in check (capital stock). (2) How to reimburse original investnts (capital stock). Is that correct? 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> they can now override me if they have the stock 
[20:27] <+NCommander> Bytram: more or less 
[20:28] <@mrcoolbp> yes 
[20:28] <+audioguy> Stock is poer. 
[20:28] <@matt_> LaminatorX, our PBC isn't held at all (because there are no stockholders :) 
[20:28] <+audioguy> power 
[20:28] <+NCommander> I feel 1. should be handled by community involvement of oard members, SOME NFPs do this via member elections 
[20:28] <+NCommander> (most NFPs are board-only and succceed themselves, including ones like the EFF) 
[20:29] <@Bytram> so, the 'capital stock' is a *means* to an end for item (2); but is a *requirement* for item (1)? 
[20:29] <+NCommander> 2. I have no issue with reimbursement, but any powers granted to the debt holder should terminate at the end of that debt. 
[20:29] <@matt_> Bytram, that's a fair assessment. 
[20:29] <@Bytram> matt_: thanks! 
[20:29] <+NCommander> Bytram: the problem is the board has no grounds to force a buyback of stock. It many be a long time before we have sufficent assets to pay off everything in full 
[20:29] <LaminatorX> Public and community broadcasters typically have their boards via paying membership holders. Credit unions also. 
[20:29] <+NCommander> Bytram: what happens if I go mad? 
[20:30] <@Bytram> I'll buy you a beer to cheer you up? 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: we'd like to more closely imitate NFPs though 
[20:30] <+juggs> NCommander, I come after you with a flamethrower. 
[20:30] <+audioguy> That is why we need five board members, as that is a distinct possibility :-) 
[20:30] <@Bytram> NCommander: but you *do* raise a valid point; well taken. 
[20:30] <+NCommander> We went with B-incorporation because it was least amount of questions/cost 
[20:30] <LaminatorX> s/via/elected via 
[20:30] <+TheMightyBuzzard> audioguy, number of board members does nothing vs stockholders 
[20:30] <+NCommander> Folks, I don't object to talking about expanded the board 
[20:30] <+NCommander> But lets please keep this on topic 
[20:30] <+audioguy> Both are issues. 
[20:31] <@Bytram> okay, let's assume we increase the size of the board... what positions do we now have? and what would we add? 
[20:31] <@Bytram> oops. nvm 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ ^ 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> oh. 
[20:31] <+NCommander> Stock != size of the board 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[20:31] <@matt_> ^^^ 
[20:31] <+NCommander> Stockholders can elect board members, and they can set the size of the board should they choose 
[20:31] <@matt_> but they should only do so if *absolutely* necessary. 
[20:31] <@mrcoolbp> AND override the board, but ^^^^^^ 
[20:31] <+audioguy> I would like to see the board expanded first, then a possible tranfer of asets to the corp through stock that recodnizes others than just NC and Matt's contributions. 
[20:31] <@paulej72> I have a question if we issue stock and we need more captital to keep going what then? 
[20:31] <@matt_> the stockholders are the final check. 
[20:32] <+NCommander> If the company defaults, then stock holders are in line to get stuff after creditors, debitor, preferred stock holders (not relevent here) get their share 
[20:32] <@mrcoolbp> paulej72: matt and NCommander said they may be able to contribute more money depending 
[20:32] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, seems we're either going to have to trust the shareholders, you and matt_, or we have to trust the board members, you and matt_ and mrcoolbp 
[20:32] <@mrcoolbp> I beleive 
[20:32] <@matt_> paulej72, we would have all options that we currently have, including issuing more stock. 
[20:32] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: the difference is I can be voted out. They would not be able to be 
[20:33] * mrcoolbp wants to stay on the island 
[20:33] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[20:33] <+NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard: we can change the board to expand it, which is something that obvious should be done soonish, and move to involve the community as soon as possible 
[20:33] <+TheMightyBuzzard> honestly that does not lend confidence to me. the more cooks the worse things end up. 
[20:33] <+prospectacle> re: the transfer of assets: Is it worth waiting a week after swag+subscriptions go live and see if you have enough money to just buy the assets? 
[20:34] <+NCommander> prospectacle: there's a legal hiccup that this decision is best made before $$$ comes in 
[20:34] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^ 
[20:34] <+NCommander> Its not impossible to issue stock afterwords but ... 
[20:34] <@matt_> prospectacle, the "valuation" of the stock would increase... 
[20:34] <+TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, IOU from the company to the proposed shareholders to be revisited after a month or two of store/subs? 
[20:34] <+prospectacle> ah 
[20:35] <+audioguy> Stock may be exchanged for value contributed other than money. 
[20:35] <@matt_> audioguy, exactly, and this is the mechanism that was proposed to ensure an exact 50/50 split between me and NC, to maintain that balance. 
[20:35] <@mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard: That would be the "promisory note" option (discussion above) 
[20:35] <+TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod 
[20:35] <+NCommander> My hangup is the board can't force a buyback of stock 
[20:35] <+NCommander> Who watches the watchmen 
[20:35] <@Bytram> proposal: less "ongoing expenses", I propose that any excess income from swag, subscriptions, etc. be used to repay current stockholders... would that advance the situation? 
[20:35] <+TheMightyBuzzard> use it but only as a short-term stopgap so that this discussion may not be necessary. 
[20:36] <+NCommander> The only thing the board can do is issue MORE stock, which to me is putting gas on a fire 
[20:36] <+audioguy> The question in my mind is whay matt_ feels he is intitled to 50% of the stock. 
[20:36] <@matt_> Bytram, frankly, i would rather see income from swag, etc. go towards the site first. 
[20:36] <+TheMightyBuzzard> audioguy, easy there big guy 
[20:36] <+NCommander> audioguy: in terms of money in, matt_ actually has more than I do 
[20:36] <@mrcoolbp> ^^ 
[20:36] <+audioguy> I do not know these details. 
[20:36] <@matt_> audioguy :) it is simply a mechanism to prevent a single person from being a majority shareholder. 
[20:36] * NCommander was able to refund a LOT of B's large expenses which reduced my debts 
[20:36] <@Bytram> matt_: I'm open to a rephrasing, just wanted to put something out there that would get us along the way. 
[20:37] <+prospectacle> If you want to act like an NFP instead of a FP, then stock should not be proprotion to the assets someone invested. Assets should be paid for (perhaps with an promissory note) and stock should be considered separately by separate rules 
[20:37] <+audioguy> I would like to see a specific accounting. 
[20:37] <+NCommander> prospectacle: non-for-profits can't issue stock, period 
[20:37] <@matt_> Bytram, you bring up an important point, though. issuing stock would avoid putting the corp. into debt, so any money raised from swag, etc. could go to original content, paying editors, etc., etc. 
[20:37] <+NCommander> audioguy: I posted it a few weeks ago in GNUcash 
[20:38] <@mrcoolbp> audioguy: I've reviewed it as well 
[20:38] <+audioguy> Ok. 
[20:38] <+prospectacle> NCommander, true, but to the extent that they represent control, a comparison can be made 
[20:38] <@Bytram> question: just how much does SoylentNews PBC owe the 'original investors', at this pont? 
[20:38] <+TheMightyBuzzard> seriously though. is there issue with issuance of prommisory notes to be revisited in 2-3 months just so we can get this off the ground? 
[20:38] <+NCommander> matt_: but ulitmately, that stock could come do at any point when the stockholders sell 
[20:38] * NCommander is for the promisory note 
[20:38] <+NCommander> If we default, well, we're kinda fucked all around anyway 
[20:38] <+TheMightyBuzzard> if you default you issue another 
[20:39] <+TheMightyBuzzard> don't specify the means of payment 
[20:39] * NCommander is mulling 
[20:39] * Bytram sips mulled cider 
[20:39] <+TheMightyBuzzard> could be stock, bonds, another promisory note, beer. 
[20:39] <+NCommander> matt_: could we simply issue stock to the board itself, and hold it in reserve until we can figure this out once and for all? 
[20:39] <@matt_> TheMightyBuzzard, i think it would basically amount to a donation, if the proissory note isn't really expected to be repaid 
[20:39] <+juggs> nah, just issue some more promisary notes - seems to work for the bankers :) 
[20:39] <@mrcoolbp> guys, I have to go very soon 
[20:39] * NCommander suspects that will create more trouble 
[20:39] <@matt_> NCommander, how would that relate to the transfer of assets? 
[20:39] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: :-/ 
[20:40] <+NCommander> matt_: more that if we decide that stock is the right option, the board can just transfer is own assets then trying to generate stock at a later date 
[20:40] <+TheMightyBuzzard> matt_, it should be repaid just unclear as to exactly when. so we hopscotch along every 3 months as necessary and as you two are willing to say okay. 
[20:40] * NCommander is still object to issuing stock at all, but is trying to be part of the solution 
[20:41] <@Bytram> NCommander: stock looks to be a 'necessary evil', according to what matt_ wrote, to keep the board 'in check'? 
[20:41] <@matt_> NCommander, i think the bigger issue is having a mechanism to hold the board accountable to the public benefit purpose of the corp. 
[20:41] <+audioguy> I still think stock should be issued more broadly, for more than just monetary contributions. 
[20:41] <+TheMightyBuzzard> it's debt, yes, but if you two are untrustworthy right now we're kinda screwed anyway 
[20:41] * NCommander agrees w/ audioguy's point 
[20:42] <+NCommander> matt_: but there are other mechanisms available to that end 
[20:42] <@matt_> such as? 
[20:42] <+audioguy> I amm just not comfortable with the same tow people having all the stock and a majority on the board. 
[20:42] <+NCommander> ones that don't leave us with a potential permament watchdog 
[20:42] <@Bytram> audioguy++ some folks have contributed no *cash*, but in sweat equity at going rates, something worth a lot of $$ 
[20:42] <Bender> karma - audioguy: 11 
[20:42] <+prospectacle> Can stock be made non-transferrable (i.e. "we can buy it back but you can't sell it to your friend")? 
[20:42] <+TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, that was a given 
[20:43] <+prospectacle> good 
[20:43] <@matt_> prospectacle, according to our bylaws, the board must approve any transfer of stock. 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> that is already the case 
[20:43] <+NCommander> matt_: define a set of electors for the board, perhaps from subscription members, who can call for a vote of no-confidence 
[20:43] <@Bytram> prospectacle: According to the bylaws, the PBC has right of first refusal. IIRC. 
[20:43] <@mrcoolbp> well what matt_ said 
[20:43] <+audioguy> paulej72 never seems to sleep, at his rate his contributions would probably be in 10s of thousands by now. 
[20:43] <@Bytram> zactly 
[20:43] <@matt_> NCommander, even if it adopted such a rule, the board could change it at will. 
[20:43] <@Bytram> then there's the editors 
[20:43] <+NCommander> matt_: and the board can issue more stock at will 
[20:44] <@matt_> please note that stock != money. 
[20:44] <@matt_> as in, you can't buy food with it :) 
[20:44] <+NCommander> We're talking about oversight here 
[20:44] <+audioguy> it is power. 
[20:45] <@matt_> NCommander, the point being that if the board adopts a rule to restrict its activities, it can always rescind that rule if there are no stockholders. 
[20:45] <@Bytram> yeah, we kind of slid over here from the discussion on how to repay the original $$ investments. 
[20:45] * NCommander fires a cannon to get back on topic 
[20:45] <@matt_> Bytram, the two are pretty linked, though. 
[20:45] == LaminatorX [~63163961@22-50-35-25.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 
[20:45] <+prospectacle> Can/should you have a hard limit of # stock-per-person, to minimise the risk of domination? 
[20:45] <@Bytram> yup 
[20:45] <+NCommander> matt_: the flip side of that coin though is you have board-only NFPs which don't (and can't) have stock holders. 
[20:45] <@Bytram> (ugh. yup was directed at matt_ ) 
[20:46] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ NCommander: I'll need to leave in a few minutes, I'm guessing we're not near a vote on this 
[20:46] <@matt_> NCommander, and they can't take advantage of capital markets. 
[20:46] <@mrcoolbp> I'm happy if y'all continue discussion, but I'm going to ask that no more votes be held 
[20:46] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: fair enough 
[20:46] <@matt_> mrcoolbp, ok. 
[20:46] <+NCommander> matt_: are we planning to do that? 
[20:47] <+TheMightyBuzzard> board gents, you lot need to decide something soonest. not deciding alone can sink the site. 
[20:47] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp++ thank-you for your contributions here, in the swag store, and everything! 
[20:47] <Bender> karma - mrcoolbp: 9 
[20:47] * NCommander would prefer to opreate as an NFP until the point we have assets to actually incorporate one as an umbrella 
[20:47] <@matt_> basically, that's what issuing stock would mean. in other words, if we were a nonprofit, we wouldn't have the option of issuing stock to avoid debt. 
[20:48] <+NCommander> And in that nonprofit world, what would be the correct way to handle this situation? 
[20:48] <+juggs> All I am seeing here is circular discussions. I move to table this discussion with an action on ~someone~ to come up with a better topic than "What mechanism should we use to transfer important assets (accounts, domains, database, other rights, etc.) to the corporation?". i.e. Present the realistic options and discuss those. Otherwise this discussion will go on forever with no tangible outcome. 
[20:48] * NCommander is asking 
[20:48] <+NCommander> juggs: welcome to the last two rounds of this -_-; 
[20:48] <@matt_> juggs, so, that was the purpose of the wiki page :/ 
[20:48] <@matt_> which didn't generate much discussion... 
[20:48] <@matt_> http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Mechanisms_for_the_Transfer_of_Assets_to_SoylentNews_PBC 
[20:49] <+NCommander> matt_: I thought you were still editing it 
[20:49] <@matt_> it's been complete for a few days now. 
[20:49] <+NCommander> ... oops 
[20:49] <+NCommander> My bad 
[20:49] <+audioguy> I suugest that at least each board member come uop with a specific proposal, in detail on how to solve this, along with amy staff that wants to submit one. 
[20:49] * NCommander agrees w/ audioguy and will do that 
[20:49] <+NCommander> I thikn matt_'s position is pretyt well known :-) 
[20:50] <@mrcoolbp> I'm for the promisory note thing with an ammendum to look into some means of oversight (though he already considers the board oversight) 
[20:50] <+audioguy> matt_: already listed some options, though somewhat vaguely. I am talking specific that can actually voted on. 
[20:50] <+NCommander> We did vote at the last meeting if we couldn't resolve it, it would go to the community to decide 
[20:50] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^^^^^^^ 
[20:50] <+audioguy> This hard shit :-) 
[20:50] <@matt_> on last monday ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
[20:50] <+NCommander> Ok 
[20:51] <+NCommander> I'll take an action item to write up a realistic alternative 
[20:51] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: you're welcome to join in with your own, else not 
[20:51] * juggs applies short circuit to this item 
[20:51] <@Bytram> unless I missed something, is a promissory note still a viable way to handle the issue of repayment to the 'founders' for their investments? (perhaps as some precentage of net income from subscripions and swag) 
[20:51] <@matt_> audioguy, i circulated detailed docs to NC and mrcoolbp several weeks ago. 
[20:51] <+NCommander> On Friday, we'll do a brief meeting on this topic alone to see if we can unstick ourselves 
[20:51] <+NCommander> If not, it goes to the community 
[20:51] <@Bytram> that would get one aspect behind us, and then we could discuss governing concerns 
[20:51] <+NCommander> Objections? 
[20:52] <@matt_> NCommander, i suggest that the proposal be focused on only the following item: accountability of the board. 
[20:52] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: can't do friday, I can do tomorrow 
[20:52] <@matt_> we can deal with any reimbursement later. 
[20:52] <+NCommander> Seconded 
[20:52] <+NCommander> matt_: ok, that's perfectly fine by me 
[20:52] <@Bytram> I work late on friday (and saturday) 
[20:52] <+NCommander> matt_: on the terms of repayment only, would you be ok with a promisary note? 
[20:52] <+NCommander> or more specifically 
[20:52] <+NCommander> Would it be a viable option 
[20:53] * mrcoolbp get's ready to leave 
[20:53] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp: ok, lets bring this up tomorrow ~approx same time 
[20:53] <+NCommander> See if we can unstick this without causing community drama 
[20:53] <@mrcoolbp> sure! 
[20:53] <@matt_> NCommander, frankly, depending on what the community wants to do about the accountability issue, i might prefer to just donate. 
[20:53] <+NCommander> Else we bring it to the community 
[20:53] <+NCommander> matt_: I'll do the same 
[20:53] <+NCommander> Well, whatever happens, we do it together 
[20:54] <@matt_> ok. now, who's ready for a staff meeting? =) 
[20:54] <+NCommander> Hold on 
[20:54] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: do we need to vote to solidify that action item? 
[20:54] <@mrcoolbp> of NOt going to the community yet 
[20:54] <+juggs> Right - so whois taking what actions from that item? 
[20:54] <@Bytram> ^^^ 
[20:54] <+NCommander> Vote to enact NCommander's discussed plan above? 
[20:54] <+NCommander> Action: NCommander to come up with proposals for oversight 
[20:55] <+NCommander> Action: NCommander to come up w/ proposals for reimbursement 
[20:55] <+juggs> By tomorrow apparently 
[20:55] <+NCommander> Action: The board reconvienes tomorrow ~approximately same time to discuss and vote on this issue 
[20:55] <+NCommander> juggs: you haven't seen me write 
[20:55] <@mrcoolbp> ROFL 
[20:55] <+juggs> yes I have 
[20:55] <@mrcoolbp> it's a sight to behold in person though 
[20:55] == LaminatorX [~470ab0b6@23-00-716-777.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #staff 
[20:55] <+NCommander> juggs: you haven't see the SPEED at which I write 
 [20:55] <+NCommander> I'll put it on chillax, and on staff mailing lists 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Ok, let's get a vote on this 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Aye 
[20:56] <@matt_> Aye! 
[20:56] <+juggs> And it is copious. Which means others will not have time to absorb your output in time 
[20:56] <+NCommander> I'll set a word limit 
[20:56] <+NCommander> :-P 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Action carries 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Vote to end board meeting: 
[20:56] <@matt_> Aye! 
[20:56] <+juggs> NAH! 
[20:56] * NCommander notes we didn't get to communication of board times 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Aye 
[20:56] <@matt_> oops. 
[20:56] <+juggs> ISSUE 6 
[20:56] <@Bytram> one last thing if I may? 
[20:56] <+NCommander> Bytram: go for it 
[20:57] <+NCommander> matt_: I think this can be handled as a staff meeting thing, and the board just photocopies it :-) 
[20:57] * NCommander notes the issue is the same on boath 
[20:57] <@Bytram> in the future set *separate* dates for board meetings from the staff meetings? please!? 
[20:57] <+NCommander> Bytram: Alright 
[20:57] <@Bytram> thanks! 
[20:57] * NCommander officially closes the board meeting 

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Finances4

2016-10-06T00:41:51Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances4" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal: $3,000 (June-Decmber 2016). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,620 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$700 Tax preparations*
*$420 State Taxes*
*$230 Administrative/buffer*
*$33 domains*
All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a small percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

<nowiki>* (estimate of HALF the cost for the entire year to "spread" it throughout the FY)</nowiki>

Finances3

2016-10-06T00:40:36Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances3" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal: $3,000 (January-June 2016). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,620 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$700 Tax preparations*
*$420 State Taxes*
*$230 Administrative/buffer*
*$33 domains*
All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a small percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

<nowiki>* (estimate of HALF the cost for the entire year to "spread" it throughout the FY)</nowiki>

Finances2

2016-10-06T00:40:21Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances2" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal was $1910 (July-December 2015). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,560 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$100 Administrative costs
*$250 Unexpected costs buffer

All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

Finances1

2016-10-06T00:39:59Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances1" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

<- [[Finances]] (parent)

Funding goal was $4,500 (January-July 2015). Here's a breakdown:
*$1,950 for server hosting/backups for 6 months
*$1,250 for C.P.A.
*$420 Massachusetts Foreign Corp. tax
*$420 Delaware Franchise Tax
*$200 Administrative costs
*$250 Unexpected costs buffer

All costs are enumerated in US dollars.

'''If you would like to support us''': we are funded mainly through '''[http://soylentnews.org/subscribe.pl Subscriptions]''', and we also receive a percentage of our [http://www.zazzle.com/soylentnews* swag] sales.

Finances

2016-10-06T00:38:48Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Finances" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

Though all the day-to-day operations are completely handled by our volunteer staff in an ad-hoc nature, our official business entity [[SoylentNews_PBC|SoylentNews PBC]] technically makes financial decisions through the [[SoylentNews_PBC_Board_of_Directors|Board of Directors]] with their goal being the preservation of the 'public benefit' that this site entails.

Below is a list of all of the funding goals that we have had to date with an explanation of the breakdown of each:

* [[Finances1|Q1/Q2 2015]]
* [[Finances2|Q3/Q4 2015]]
* [[Finances3|Q1/Q2 2016]]
* [[Finances4|Q3/Q4 2016]]

Discussion of future spending outside the realm of hosting/domains/taxes can be found on the [[ProposedSpending|Proposed Spending]] page.

Board of Directors Meeting - September 12 2014

2016-10-06T00:34:46Z

Sir Finkus:

{{Log}}
[18:42] <@Bytram> okay, so are we all here? 
[18:44] == Bytram changed the topic of #staff to: Board Meeting now in Progress; Everyone that doesn't have a voice or operator status in this channel: your messages will be forwarded to the channel ops. 
[18:44] <+NCommander> indeed 
[18:44] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[18:44] <+matt_> good 
[18:45] <@Bytram> looks like all are present. 
[18:45] <+matt_> so, there are 6 issues on the wiki. shall we jump right in? 
[18:45] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[18:45] <@Bytram> The items for this meeting, as far as I know, are at: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting 
[18:45] <@Bytram> sounds good. 
[18:45] <+matt_> Issue 1: Site wildcard certificates - status? 
[18:46] <@mrcoolbp> I think we need the domain under SN's control to do that 
[18:46] <+NCommander> yeah 
[18:46] <+matt_> my understanding is that the status of this is: pending transfer decision 
[18:46] <@mrcoolbp> yeah 
[18:47] <@Bytram> whose decision is that? 
[18:47] <+matt_> the board's, mostly :) 
[18:47] <@Bytram> oh. 
[18:47] * NCommander twiches on that discussion 
[18:47] <+matt_> the thing is, it's not just getting the whois right, we should have an actual transfer so that the agreement with the CA is actually correct... 
[18:48] <@mrcoolbp> exactly 
[18:48] <@Bytram> are there any issues with domain ownership at the moment, or are all those now under our control? 
[18:48] <+matt_> the PBC doesn't yet own the domains. 
[18:48] <+matt_> we have had a few discussions about how to achieve this. 
[18:49] <@mrcoolbp> lots of circular discussions from my recollection 
[18:49] <+matt_> and to reiterate, the default position (i.e., if we can't think of a better solution) is a donation, although in my opinion that has its own drawbacks 
[18:49] <@mrcoolbp> like? 
[18:50] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, like defeating the purpose of being a public-benefit corp., since without shareholders the board isn't required to adhere to our journalistic purpose. 
[18:50] <+matt_> so, we're basically a standard for-profit that is relying on the goodwill of the board to stay true to the PBC's stated mission. 
[18:50] <@mrcoolbp> goodwill of board or goodwill of shareholders, they're similar situations 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> though not identical 
[18:51] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, one provides a distribution of power, while one concentrates it imho 
[18:51] <@Bytram> For completeness sake, who currently owns the domains: sylnt.us and soylentnews.org? 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> we own sylnt.us 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> Landon donated it 
[18:51] <+matt_> my understanding is that the PBC owns sylnt.us and i own soylentnews.org 
[18:52] <+NCommander> Yeah, we have sylnt.us under our control 
[18:53] <@Bytram> so what is the issue with getting the wildard certs? 
[18:53] <@mrcoolbp> the PBC doesn't own the domain, so it would be legit 
[18:53] <+matt_> Bytram, the CA requires that the applicant own the domain 
[18:53] <@mrcoolbp> wouldn't 
[18:53] <@Bytram> which domain are we talking about atm 
[18:54] <+matt_> Bytram, the one for which the wildcard cert is required :) 
[18:54] <@Bytram> matt_: gee, thanks! :/ 
[18:54] <+matt_> i'm assuming that is soylentnews.org 
[18:54] <@mrcoolbp> bingo 
[18:54] <@Bytram> that's my assumption, too. 
[18:54] <+NCommander> yeah 
[18:54] <@Bytram> okay. so who/what *owns* soylentnews.org right now? 
[18:54] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ 
[18:54] <+matt_> me 
[18:55] <@Bytram> okay. sorry, I'm playing catchup here, it seems. 
[18:55] <+matt_> Bytram, that is what i bought from Barrabas all those months ago. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> and the problem is matt_ != Soylentnews PBC 
[18:55] <@mrcoolbp> yes sir. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> so we can't get the wildcard certs? 
[18:55] <@mrcoolbp> correct. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> but, matt_ could? 
[18:56] <@mrcoolbp> not really our end-goal, but technically yes 
[18:56] <+matt_> i suppose that's true 
[18:56] <@Bytram> okay, so it's not so much a *technical* problem; we *could* get the wildcard certs at the moment if we wanted to, the problem is a (for lack of a better term) political/governance one? 
[18:57] <@mrcoolbp> kind of 
[18:57] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[18:58] <@Bytram> backtracking a moment; there was mention at the last meeting about needing some PDF file signed(?) and forwarded (correct me if I'm wrong there)... has this been done?> 
[18:58] <+matt_> not to my knowledge 
[18:59] * Bytram goes to track down the last meeting's minutes 
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> I have printed it out, but I had a minor breakdown in not reading all 40 or so pages collective of the documents 
[18:59] <+NCommander> Bytram, that was to authorize an agent to deal with the A 
[19:00] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: Ugh. I'm *still* recovering from reading the incorporation docs! 
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> exactly 
[19:01] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, it was only 28 pages :) 
[19:01] <+matt_> (the vast majority of which were just the incorporation docs attached as exhibits) 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ which parts are new/changed? 
[19:02] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, ok, so there are 2 documents: 
[19:02] <@Bytram> matt_: Yeah, but the incorporation docs had a single sentence that contained over 300 words. :( 
[19:02] <+NCommander> ... .oO(can't help but think this could be simpler :-P) 
[19:02] <+matt_> 1. the first document basically ratifies everything that we've done so far. 
[19:02] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #staff 
[19:02] <+matt_> 2. the second document amends the bylaws to allow meetings over IRC 
[19:02] == mode/#staff [+v rand] by Bytram 
[19:03] <+matt_> really there are only a total of ~5 pages of new stuff :/ 
[19:03] <+matt_> which isn't much for setting up an entire corporation... 
[19:03] <@Bytram> matt_: could you please e-mail me a copy for review? 
[19:04] <+matt_> Bytram, k. 
[19:04] <@Bytram> thanks! 
[19:04] * NCommander has repeatively failed to get to fedex office to print and sign the ive pages 
[19:05] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: There's quite a discussion thread on chilax.soylentnews.org about the incorporation docs, should you have any questions. Matt_ was most helpful in explaining things that I'd misunderstood, and I'd be happy to answer any questions I can. 
[19:05] <+matt_> Bytram, email sent! 
[19:05] <@Bytram> here's the URL: https://chillax.soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/06/17/0027254 
[19:05] * Bytram checks mail 
[19:07] <@Bytram> matt_: mail received. THanks! 
[19:07] <+matt_> =) 
[19:07] == Ethanol-fueled [~46b32f79@ka34-838-68-197.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #staff 
[19:07] == Ethanol-fueled [~46b32f79@ka34-838-68-197.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #staff [] 
[19:08] * Bytram is downloading PDFs now. 
[19:08] == mythterj [mythterj@tonvizu.sdf.org] has joined #staff 
[19:08] <@Bytram> okay, so continuing with where we left off... 
[19:09] <@Bytram> Just a wild idea, but if matt_ had the signed docs in hand, what would the problem be if he just went and got the wildcard certs? Could they not also be transferred along with the site, should the need arise? What am I missing? 
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> not sure if they are transferrable, NCommander might know 
[19:10] <+matt_> certainly not a permanent solution, but it could solve the immediate problem. 
[19:10] <+NCommander> the CA wants proof that we own the domain, by validating us via the postmaster address (done) AND getting the WHOIS info matching up 
[19:11] <@Bytram> NCommander: the (infamous) 'Peter Walsh'? 
[19:11] <+NCommander> bingo 
[19:12] <@Bytram> what do they (the CA) need to get that fixed? 
[19:12] <+matt_> i can fix the whois 
[19:12] <@Bytram> matt_++ 
[19:12] <+matt_> well, by "fix" i mean "change" 
[19:12] <+matt_> the question is what to change it to 
[19:12] <+NCommander> The register (gadhi) has to fix the WHOIS 
[19:13] <@Bytram> okay, there are three 'contacts' - Registrant, Admin, and Tech... right? 
[19:13] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[19:14] <+matt_> Bytram, one snag i seem to remember is that for some reason we needed a "corporate account" (was that with the CA or gandi?) 
[19:14] <@Bytram> idk 
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you remember? 
[19:15] <+NCommander> matt_, the CA requires one, but that wasn't the headache 
[19:15] <+NCommander> I can handle that side of it relatively easy 
[19:17] <+matt_> Bytram, so we had a page up on the wiki with a few options for the transfer. Given that the default option is a donation/transfer, i really think this issue boils down to the question of whether we want there to be stockholders (as would normally be the case) or for the power to be concentrated in the board. 
[19:18] <+matt_> If we can answer that question, everything else will be pretty much automatically decided, i think. 
[19:19] <@Bytram> matt_: thanks for that... 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> I think that sums it up nicely 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> should we press on with the agenda? 
[19:19] <+NCommander> yeah 
[19:19] <@Bytram> ummm, 
[19:20] <@Bytram> what stops us from getting the wildcard certs, for now, and deal with the stockholder/board issue later? 
[19:20] <@Bytram> or is that a 'cart before the horse' kind of thing 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> I'd have to defer to NCommander on how to answer that question. 
[19:21] == Ethanol-fueled [~46b32f79@ka34-838-68-197.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #staff 
[19:21] == TheMightyBuzzard [bob@Soylent/Staff/Developer/TMB] has joined #staff 
[19:21] == mode/#staff [+v TheMightyBuzzard] by juggler 
[19:21] <+NCommander> the domian has to be owned by the corporation 
[19:21] <+NCommander> That's the hangup 
[19:22] <@Bytram> corporation == "SoylentNews PBC" ?? 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I think he was proposing that matt_ get the CA cert under his name 
[19:22] <+matt_> NCommander, as i understand it, technically the corporation simply has to have permission to use the domain. 
[19:22] <+matt_> i'm not sure if actual ownership is really required. 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> or that ^ 
[19:24] <@Bytram> okay, so backing up for a moment, the agenda item was: "Issue 1: Site wildcard certificates - status?" 
[19:24] <+NCommander> matt_, yeah, that's a possibility, as long as the certificate license allows you to do it for profit and such 
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> Maybe matt_ can investigate and NCommander assist if needed 
[19:25] <+matt_> NCommander, should we do it that way? I could change the whois, and write a letter giving SN PBC express permission to obtain a wildcard cert? 
[19:25] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, yes, let me investigate that a little more to see if i can find any problems. 
[19:26] <+NCommander> matt_, that should be able to work 
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> great, thanks guys 
[19:26] <+matt_> TODO: matt_: investigate changing whois and giving SN PBC permission to apply for a wildcard cert. 
[19:26] <@paulej72> here if i am needed 
[19:26] <@Bytram> perfect! You guys are great! 
[19:26] <@Bytram> paulej72: hi! 
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> sup paulej72 
[19:27] <@paulej72> just got to my parents :) 
[19:27] <@Bytram> May I suggest we skip agenda item 2 for now and skip ahead to 3? 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> if you like 
[19:27] <@Bytram> that way we can make some quick progress? 
[19:27] <+matt_> Bytram, since i believe you added agenda item 2, that should be fine :) 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> That's what I was thinking. 
[19:27] <@Bytram> item 2 has 5 parts and each of them could turn into a rats hole of discussion. 
[19:28] <+matt_> oh, one thing about item 2, though. 
[19:28] <@Bytram> matt_: yes? 
[19:28] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, at the last meeting we discussed sending out an email to the staff list asking for input on the policy doc, iirc. 
[19:28] <+matt_> perhaps it is now ready for that? 
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> yes, I need to give it a once over before I do 
[19:28] <+matt_> k. 
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> I've been swamped lately, sorry guys 
[19:29] * mrcoolbp has a todo list 
[19:29] <@Bytram> yes; the parts I added are a ** D R A F T ** 
[19:29] <+matt_> TODO: mrcoolbp, give the policy doc. a once over, and if it is ready send an email to the staff list asking for input. 
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> well the whole thing is a draft still 
[19:29] <@Bytram> I *really* want someone to go over them once before they go out for general review. 
[19:29] <+matt_> ok, on to agenda item 3? 
[19:29] <@Bytram> matt_: that works for me. 
[19:30] <+matt_> Issue 3: Treasurer's Report - Month of August 2014 
[19:30] <@mrcoolbp> Okay: so I don't have access to the bank account, but according to Paypal we've earned $1200 in August 
[19:30] * matt_ notes that the current bank account balance is: $1,379.49 
[19:30] <@mrcoolbp> (from subs alone) 
[19:31] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, you should have access to the bank account. 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ if there is a way for me to have a seperate loging that would be good 
[19:31] <@Bytram> yes, each person who access the account should have their *own* id 
[19:31] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, not sure if there is one. i will investigate further. 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> I have been withdrawing money as often as possible (from paypal to the account) to avoid any issues with paypal not feeling like giving us our money = ) 
[19:31] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp++ 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> TODO: matt_: investigate a seperate login on B o A account for mrcoolbp 
[19:32] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think paypal has a type of autosweep for that 
[19:32] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, thanks! i'm racking up the todos today! 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> happens sir. 
[19:32] <@Bytram> hmm, can paypal pull money *back* from a linked bank account? 
[19:33] <+NCommander> from what I've see, we're getting about a sub per day 
[19:33] <+matt_> Bytram, i really doubt that. 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yes minus the past 2-3 
[19:33] <@Bytram> not that I expect that to continue, but 365 * $20 = $73,120 /year 
[19:34] <+matt_> Byram, you may want to upgrade your copy of Mathematica :) 
[19:34] <@Bytram> ugh. that didn't look right! 
[19:35] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think once we put a banner up about it, it might help 
[19:35] <@Bytram> that works out to: 365 days/year * $20/day = $5300/year 
[19:35] <@Bytram> NCommander: nod nod 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yes, other thing I wanted to do was get a breakdown of expenses that we could link to from the banner with the Funding goal progress bar we built 
[19:35] <+matt_> Bytram, try once more. 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> on my todo list = ) 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> also helping TheMightyBuzzard setup bitpay account 
[19:36] == Ethanol-fueled [~46b32f79@ka34-838-68-197.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #staff [] 
[19:36] <+TheMightyBuzzard> all their bitcoins are belong to us 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> hopefully, at least some of them 
[19:36] <+NCommander> we got lucky on that 
[19:37] <+NCommander> yay for paypal embracing bitcoin 
[19:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> paypal does bitcoin? 
[19:37] * Bytram had resisted increasing the font size on his cmd windows for too long 
[19:37] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: kinda but not really 
[19:38] <@Bytram> 365 * 20 = 7300 
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> that is correct 
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> okay, are we moving to the next item or is there more to discuss on this one? 
[19:38] <@Bytram> how have we done with swag sales? 
[19:38] <+NCommander> I think we've covered it 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: sec 
[19:39] <@Bytram> k 
[19:39] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, also, are we starting to pay for hosting from the bank account? 
[19:39] <@Bytram> time's up. ;) 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: need a login that I can pay linode with 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: $95.63 USD, but we won't see it all for about 30 days 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> from zazzle ^ 
[19:40] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: thanks!@ 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> any thing else I missed? 
[19:40] * Bytram has procrastinated in getting a temp card to buy swag with. 
[19:40] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I can fix that 
[19:41] <@mrcoolbp> for completeness (starting balance/ending balance isn't far off from $0 -> $1200, and effectively that is the case more or less) 
[19:41] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: thanks 
[19:42] <@Bytram> TODO: NCommander will get mrcoolbp linode access so mrcoolbp can pay monthly hosting bill 
[19:42] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: perfect! that's exactly what I was looking for! 
[19:42] <@Bytram> are we now ready to move on to the next item? 
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> more detail would be: Starting was $100 I think, Expenses: $15 sylnt.us transfer, income of ~$1180 (paypal fees) 
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: I am 
[19:43] <@Bytram> i am 
[19:43] * matt_ is 
[19:43] <+matt_> so, we already did: Issue 4: Current Balance(s) 
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> I think we are at Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki? 
[19:43] <@Bytram> nod nod 
[19:44] <@Bytram> I posted that one so I can elaborate 
[19:44] <@Bytram> we've espoused openness in our dealing with the community 
[19:44] <@Bytram> I am unsure just how much detail we need/want to put out there, but at a minimum... 
[19:45] <@Bytram> I would think that, for each month, a summary of where we started, what we spent, and where we ended up would be useful. 
[19:45] <@mrcoolbp> basically a summarized balance sheet 
[19:45] <@mrcoolbp> If others agree, I can't think of a good reason not to do this, other than it's yet another thing we have to do every month 
[19:45] <@Bytram> at this point, our transactions are so few, that we *could* itemize each of them, I suppose. 
[19:45] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: bintgo 
[19:45] <+TheMightyBuzzard> all in favor of making Bytram do it? 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:46] <+matt_> Aye! 
[19:46] <+NCommander> aye 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ROFL 
[19:46] <@Bytram> since mrcoolbp is the treasurer, I defer to him. 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ug 
[19:46] <+NCommander> we could make an assistent treasurer position 
[19:46] * NCommander strokes beard 
[19:46] <+matt_> ^^^ 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^^ 
[19:47] <@Bytram> hey, I need to use the rest room... I'll be right back! =) 
[19:47] <@Bytram> j/k 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> if someone is nominating Bytram, I would Nominate paulej72 to round out to an odd number of positions 
[19:47] * mrcoolbp looks around at other board memebers 
[19:47] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, what position would you like to nominate paulej72 for? 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ what do we got? 
[19:47] <@paulej72> for a while 
[19:48] <+matt_> I nominate Bytram for the position of Assistant Treasurer. 
[19:48] * NCommander fires an on topic cannon 
[19:48] <@Bytram> matt_: I thought I'd been nominated for chairman a while ago 
[19:48] <+NCommander> While I want to expand the board, lets do it in a serious way 
[19:48] <@paulej72> assistant lightbulb changer 
[19:48] <@Bytram> NCommander: agreed. 
[19:49] <+matt_> NCommander, also, remember that officers need not be board members. 
[19:49] <@Bytram> topic at hand: "Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki?" 
[19:49] <@Bytram> is there anyone here who thinks we should *not* do this? 
[19:49] * mrcoolbp looks at his todo list 
[19:49] <+matt_> Bytram, well, actually, I think we were on topic, as this would be another thing for mrcoolbp's todo list. 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> = / 
[19:50] <+matt_> otherwise, i think it's a good idea. 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> not that hard I guess 
[19:51] <@Bytram> in spite of my recent display of math skills, if mrcoolbp can forward me all transaction data, I can help with computing the monthly tallies 
[19:51] <@mrcoolbp> once I have access, or if matt_ continues emailing monthly statements 
[19:52] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, that reminds me, i can send you the latest one now. 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[19:52] <@Bytram> hmm, if I could independently access the account's data, I would think it's pretty straightforward to dump as a .csv file and get a tally. 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: if sufficient, matt_ could just CC you on these 
[19:53] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: that might work. I'd have to see one, first. 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> (or I can forward them or whatever) 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> They are "Montly Statements" like you would get for your own account 
[19:54] <@mrcoolbp> should work 
[19:54] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: please send 'em. I'll see what I can do. 
[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> will do 
[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so moving on? 
[19:55] <@Bytram> so, we've kind of nailed down the details, is it agreed we will track treasurer's reports on the wiki? 
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[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ what do you think? Good idea/Bad idea? 
[19:55] <+NCommander> ack 
[19:56] <+matt_> sounds good to me. 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> okay, it's agreed then 
[19:56] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, email sent! 
[19:56] <@Bytram> AGREED: Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki? YES. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ rcvd, thx 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> okay: Issue 6: Start repayment of initial cash investments by Matt_ and NCommander? Maybe $20-$25/person/month? 
[19:57] <+matt_> so, at that rate, it would take just over 10 years to be fully repaid :) 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> fantastic 
[19:58] <@Bytram> matt_: optimist! 
[19:58] <@Bytram> it's just a number I pulled out of the air, not knowing where we stood with 
[19:58] <+matt_> i think repayment can be put off for now (especially considering that we barely have enough money to pay for hosting for the next few months). 
[19:58] <@Bytram> cash on hand or with cash flow. the whole idea was to at least *get started* on making you guys "whole". 
[19:59] * matt_ likes lump sums :) 
[19:59] <@Bytram> matt_: and THAT was the competing thought. 
[19:59] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: hard to gauge; we need to see how this plays out, we've only been live with subs for a few weeks, I predict they will start dropping off now 
[19:59] <@mrcoolbp> we'll get a little bump with the crypto guys 
[19:59] <+matt_> Bytram, also, personally, i would like to see money going towards generating original content, maybe paying editors/sysops/devs, and other things in the not-too-distant future, as well. 
[19:59] <+NCommander> Reddit does pretty good with their gold givings 
[20:00] <@Bytram> NCommander: ummm, what's that? 
[20:00] <@mrcoolbp> reddit gold 
[20:00] <+NCommander> Well, on reddit, eveyr post as a "Give Gold" which you can gift it, and it happens frequently enough that there's money to be had there 
[20:00] <+NCommander> I think 
[20:01] <@Bytram> so, I read a post (== story?) and if I like it, I can 'give gold' ?? 
[20:01] <+NCommander> Bingo 
[20:02] <+NCommander> We can gift subscriptions as they are now 
[20:03] <@Bytram> NCommander: interesting! So, it would *not* be considered a donation -- but more like a payment for services rendered? So, no tax law issues? 
[20:04] <+NCommander> Bytram, if we did a monthly version of the script for say 3 dollars, and then allowed it to be easily gifted 
[20:04] <+NCommander> I could see it working 
[20:04] <+NCommander> We already allow gift subscriptions 
[20:04] <+TheMightyBuzzard> hell, the mechanics are already written for it in the form of gift subscriptions. we'd just need to script up a button and allow partial subs to be bought. 
[20:04] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: like an auto-renewing, monthly subscription? 
[20:05] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: oh, nvm. I misread what you wrote. 
[20:05] <+TheMightyBuzzard> probably one-shot donation of a buck n change for a month 
[20:05] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: k, thanks! 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> <mythterj> Question from the floor: Is it true that Swag brought in less than 100 bucks ? If so how much did subscriptions bring in in the same period? 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> .voice mytherj 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> .voice mythterj 
[20:05] == mode/#staff [+v mythterj] by juggler 
[20:06] <@paulej72> if the price is too small it gets eaten up in fees 
[20:06] <@Bytram> paulej72: what kind of fees do we have? 
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> mythterj: yes, more than 10x that amount, we reviewed that earlier 
[20:06] <@paulej72> paypal 
[20:07] <@paulej72> think it is .88 per, but might be moe for cc trans 
[20:07] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: you recently coded up bitcoin support... what kind of fees does that kind of transaction entail? 
[20:07] <@paulej72> not sure waht the bitpay fees are 
[20:08] <+NCommander> I thought paypal had some sorta microtransaction feature with reduced merchant fees for stuf flike this 
[20:08] <@mrcoolbp> We lose $.88 on each of our $20 transactions, it might be a percentage AND/OR fixed not sure exactly 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> zero until we hit... um... lemme get back to you on that 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i wanna say our first million is fee-free but it might be a decimal point either way. 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> afterwards it's a flat 1% fee 
[20:08] <+mythterj> Mrcoolbe: Thanks. I might have misses where the bulk came from, joined late. We need to push subscriptions. 
[20:08] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: thanks! 
[20:09] <+TheMightyBuzzard> fees come out of the buyer's end though. we get what we charge. 
[20:09] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: nice to know. thanks! 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> mythterj: we have a plan to put a "Funding Goal" progress bar up very soon linking to the breakdown of what our plans for the money consists of 
[20:09] <@Bytram> okay, I think we were discussing "Issue 6: Start repayment of initial cash investments by Matt_ and NCommander? Maybe $20-$25/person/month?" 
[20:09] <+NCommander> I'm fine deferring that 
[20:09] <+NCommander> I rather see us be independent first 
[20:10] * NCommander waits for matt_'s 2 cents 
[20:10] <+matt_> ^^^^ 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: looks like they'd both like to defer until we have a little more cash flow 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram, and on Item #2 I'm thinking we should flesh that out before the board "ACK"s it 
[20:11] <@Bytram> how long before we should revisit this decsion? 2/3 months? start of the new year? 
[20:11] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, Bytram, on Item #2, it would be good to put it to an all-staff vote, then if it passes, have the board adopt it. 
[20:11] <@mrcoolbp> even better 
[20:11] <+matt_> Bytram, start of new year is fine by me (unless we get inexplicably rich before then). 
[20:12] * mrcoolbp shudders at the thought of a vote 
[20:12] <@Bytram> NCommander: how does the start of the new year sound to you for revisiting when we should take another look at paying you back? okay? 
[20:12] <+NCommander> works for me 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> TODO: The Board: revisit repaying benefactors on or around Jan 1st 2015 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[20:13] <@Bytram> NCommander: thanks!! 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> okay, are we looking at nominating an officer? 
[20:14] <+matt_> nominate away! 
[20:14] <@Bytram> I make a motion that board discussion on "Issue 2: Follow-up on SoylentNews Policy Document - Updates: " be tabled for now. Upon such time that it has been reviewed, and then sent out to staff for approval, then bring it back to the board? 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> yes, that seems logical 
[20:14] <+matt_> Bytram sounds good. 
[20:14] * Bytram notes that bad english is my specialty tonight. 
[20:15] <@Bytram> since I'm the usual suspect in reviewing docs, who wants to review my stuff? 
[20:15] <+matt_> i think mrcoolbp already volunteered for that. 
[20:16] <@Bytram> hmm, crutchy offered some comments on the doc already, too. I'll see if I can get him to take a look-see. 
[20:16] <@paulej72> get an ed to,look at it too 
[20:16] <@Bytram> matt_: yes, I forgot. thanks! 
[20:16] <@Bytram> paulej72: brilliant! thanks! 
[20:17] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: yeah I need to once-over the whole thing and then I guess we can see if anyone has anything they'd like to add. I'm sure we'll need to add things as times goes by, but I'm not sure the board really has to ack each one, it's more of a site-governance than a business-type thing 
[20:17] <@Bytram> matt_: there's some legal ramifications in there pertaining to copyrights, I'd appreciate your trained eye on that. 
[20:17] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: in general, I'd agree. when it comes to copyrights, and who *owns* what, that's a different matter, no? 
[20:17] <+matt_> Bytram, will do. i'll wait until mrcoolbp has a go, and then take a close look. 
[20:17] <@Bytram> matt_: much obliged! 
[20:18] <@mrcoolbp> Sure, sounds good guys. 
[20:18] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: pls send matt_ and me a head's up when you're done. 
[20:18] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[20:18] <@Bytram> great! 
[20:19] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, you mentioned nominations. nominate now or forever hold your peace! 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> "<+matt_> I nominate Bytram for the position of Assistant Treasurer." 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> hehehe 
[20:19] <+matt_> do i hear a second? 
[20:19] <+NCommander> ack 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> Second 
[20:20] <@Bytram> umm, what are the the duties? 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> nothing yet =) 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> but I imagine 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> Treasurer's reports on wiki will be one of them = ) 
[20:20] * Bytram is pretty sure he can handle doing nothing. at least for the time being. 
[20:21] <@Bytram> I'll get back to you on that once I see what the reports look like. 
[20:21] <@mrcoolbp> Guys: we are approaching the two-hour mark, I have lots to work on 
[20:21] <+matt_> Bytram, would you like to accept the board's nomination or defer until the next meeting? 
[20:21] <+matt_> (would still require a vote) 
[20:21] <@Bytram> btw, ISTR in an early board meeting that there was discussion of needing a chairman of the baord and that my name was mentioned...it was held off as I was not in attendance. 
[20:22] <@Bytram> if THAT is still a consideration, I doubt I coul dhandle both roles. 
[20:23] <@mrcoolbp> We've kind of all been co-chairing lately 
[20:23] <@paulej72> need a fifth board member 
[20:23] <+matt_> Bytram, i believe that our bylaws currently contemplate the Chairman being a Director, so we would need to first expand the board before electing one. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> matt_: I'm leaning to accept the nomination. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> but, it's late, and I prefer not to leap before I look. 
[20:24] <+matt_> which is a whole other discussion... 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> okay, issue number one then = ) 
[20:24] <+matt_> k. sounds good. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> so, may I get back to you on that at the next board meeting? 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> (for the next meeting) 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> Issue One: Expand Board? Bytram has been nominated at least for an officer position and paulej72 was mentioned as well as a candidate. 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> Issue 2: recap on the Policy Document effores 
[20:25] <@Bytram> works for me. 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> efforts 
[20:26] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: shall we retain the current "Issue 2" on the wiki? 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: maybe we should look at those items, yeah let's leave as-is 
[20:27] <@Bytram> okay. 
[20:27] <@Bytram> that's all I got. anyone else have anything? 
[20:28] <+matt_> nope 
[20:28] <+NCommander> no 
[20:28] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[20:29] <@Bytram> is there a motion to adjourn? 
[20:30] <@Bytram> matt_ NCommander mrcoolbp "Motion to adjourn" is there a second? 
[20:30] <+matt_> second 
[20:30] <+NCommander> third 
[20:30] <@Bytram> seconded. All in favor? 
[20:30] <+matt_> Aye! 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[20:31] <@Bytram> meeting adjourned! 
[20:31] <@Bytram> thanks everyone!

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Template:Log

2016-10-06T00:33:43Z

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Board of Directors Meeting - September 12 2014

2016-10-06T00:29:05Z

Sir Finkus:

{{archival}}
[18:42] <@Bytram> okay, so are we all here? 
[18:44] == Bytram changed the topic of #staff to: Board Meeting now in Progress; Everyone that doesn't have a voice or operator status in this channel: your messages will be forwarded to the channel ops. 
[18:44] <+NCommander> indeed 
[18:44] <@mrcoolbp> right 
[18:44] <+matt_> good 
[18:45] <@Bytram> looks like all are present. 
[18:45] <+matt_> so, there are 6 issues on the wiki. shall we jump right in? 
[18:45] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[18:45] <@Bytram> The items for this meeting, as far as I know, are at: http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Issues_to_Be_Raised_at_the_Next_Board_Meeting 
[18:45] <@Bytram> sounds good. 
[18:45] <+matt_> Issue 1: Site wildcard certificates - status? 
[18:46] <@mrcoolbp> I think we need the domain under SN's control to do that 
[18:46] <+NCommander> yeah 
[18:46] <+matt_> my understanding is that the status of this is: pending transfer decision 
[18:46] <@mrcoolbp> yeah 
[18:47] <@Bytram> whose decision is that? 
[18:47] <+matt_> the board's, mostly :) 
[18:47] <@Bytram> oh. 
[18:47] * NCommander twiches on that discussion 
[18:47] <+matt_> the thing is, it's not just getting the whois right, we should have an actual transfer so that the agreement with the CA is actually correct... 
[18:48] <@mrcoolbp> exactly 
[18:48] <@Bytram> are there any issues with domain ownership at the moment, or are all those now under our control? 
[18:48] <+matt_> the PBC doesn't yet own the domains. 
[18:48] <+matt_> we have had a few discussions about how to achieve this. 
[18:49] <@mrcoolbp> lots of circular discussions from my recollection 
[18:49] <+matt_> and to reiterate, the default position (i.e., if we can't think of a better solution) is a donation, although in my opinion that has its own drawbacks 
[18:49] <@mrcoolbp> like? 
[18:50] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, like defeating the purpose of being a public-benefit corp., since without shareholders the board isn't required to adhere to our journalistic purpose. 
[18:50] <+matt_> so, we're basically a standard for-profit that is relying on the goodwill of the board to stay true to the PBC's stated mission. 
[18:50] <@mrcoolbp> goodwill of board or goodwill of shareholders, they're similar situations 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> though not identical 
[18:51] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, one provides a distribution of power, while one concentrates it imho 
[18:51] <@Bytram> For completeness sake, who currently owns the domains: sylnt.us and soylentnews.org? 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> we own sylnt.us 
[18:51] <@mrcoolbp> Landon donated it 
[18:51] <+matt_> my understanding is that the PBC owns sylnt.us and i own soylentnews.org 
[18:52] <+NCommander> Yeah, we have sylnt.us under our control 
[18:53] <@Bytram> so what is the issue with getting the wildard certs? 
[18:53] <@mrcoolbp> the PBC doesn't own the domain, so it would be legit 
[18:53] <+matt_> Bytram, the CA requires that the applicant own the domain 
[18:53] <@mrcoolbp> wouldn't 
[18:53] <@Bytram> which domain are we talking about atm 
[18:54] <+matt_> Bytram, the one for which the wildcard cert is required :) 
[18:54] <@Bytram> matt_: gee, thanks! :/ 
[18:54] <+matt_> i'm assuming that is soylentnews.org 
[18:54] <@mrcoolbp> bingo 
[18:54] <@Bytram> that's my assumption, too. 
[18:54] <+NCommander> yeah 
[18:54] <@Bytram> okay. so who/what *owns* soylentnews.org right now? 
[18:54] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ 
[18:54] <+matt_> me 
[18:55] <@Bytram> okay. sorry, I'm playing catchup here, it seems. 
[18:55] <+matt_> Bytram, that is what i bought from Barrabas all those months ago. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> and the problem is matt_ != Soylentnews PBC 
[18:55] <@mrcoolbp> yes sir. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> so we can't get the wildcard certs? 
[18:55] <@mrcoolbp> correct. 
[18:55] <@Bytram> but, matt_ could? 
[18:56] <@mrcoolbp> not really our end-goal, but technically yes 
[18:56] <+matt_> i suppose that's true 
[18:56] <@Bytram> okay, so it's not so much a *technical* problem; we *could* get the wildcard certs at the moment if we wanted to, the problem is a (for lack of a better term) political/governance one? 
[18:57] <@mrcoolbp> kind of 
[18:57] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[18:58] <@Bytram> backtracking a moment; there was mention at the last meeting about needing some PDF file signed(?) and forwarded (correct me if I'm wrong there)... has this been done?> 
[18:58] <+matt_> not to my knowledge 
[18:59] * Bytram goes to track down the last meeting's minutes 
[18:59] <@mrcoolbp> I have printed it out, but I had a minor breakdown in not reading all 40 or so pages collective of the documents 
[18:59] <+NCommander> Bytram, that was to authorize an agent to deal with the A 
[19:00] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: Ugh. I'm *still* recovering from reading the incorporation docs! 
[19:00] <@mrcoolbp> exactly 
[19:01] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, it was only 28 pages :) 
[19:01] <+matt_> (the vast majority of which were just the incorporation docs attached as exhibits) 
[19:01] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ which parts are new/changed? 
[19:02] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, ok, so there are 2 documents: 
[19:02] <@Bytram> matt_: Yeah, but the incorporation docs had a single sentence that contained over 300 words. :( 
[19:02] <+NCommander> ... .oO(can't help but think this could be simpler :-P) 
[19:02] <+matt_> 1. the first document basically ratifies everything that we've done so far. 
[19:02] == rand [~rand@cea-547.64-463-42.nts-online.net] has joined #staff 
[19:02] <+matt_> 2. the second document amends the bylaws to allow meetings over IRC 
[19:02] == mode/#staff [+v rand] by Bytram 
[19:03] <+matt_> really there are only a total of ~5 pages of new stuff :/ 
[19:03] <+matt_> which isn't much for setting up an entire corporation... 
[19:03] <@Bytram> matt_: could you please e-mail me a copy for review? 
[19:04] <+matt_> Bytram, k. 
[19:04] <@Bytram> thanks! 
[19:04] * NCommander has repeatively failed to get to fedex office to print and sign the ive pages 
[19:05] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: There's quite a discussion thread on chilax.soylentnews.org about the incorporation docs, should you have any questions. Matt_ was most helpful in explaining things that I'd misunderstood, and I'd be happy to answer any questions I can. 
[19:05] <+matt_> Bytram, email sent! 
[19:05] <@Bytram> here's the URL: https://chillax.soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=14/06/17/0027254 
[19:05] * Bytram checks mail 
[19:07] <@Bytram> matt_: mail received. THanks! 
[19:07] <+matt_> =) 
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[19:08] * Bytram is downloading PDFs now. 
[19:08] == mythterj [mythterj@tonvizu.sdf.org] has joined #staff 
[19:08] <@Bytram> okay, so continuing with where we left off... 
[19:09] <@Bytram> Just a wild idea, but if matt_ had the signed docs in hand, what would the problem be if he just went and got the wildcard certs? Could they not also be transferred along with the site, should the need arise? What am I missing? 
[19:10] <@mrcoolbp> not sure if they are transferrable, NCommander might know 
[19:10] <+matt_> certainly not a permanent solution, but it could solve the immediate problem. 
[19:10] <+NCommander> the CA wants proof that we own the domain, by validating us via the postmaster address (done) AND getting the WHOIS info matching up 
[19:11] <@Bytram> NCommander: the (infamous) 'Peter Walsh'? 
[19:11] <+NCommander> bingo 
[19:12] <@Bytram> what do they (the CA) need to get that fixed? 
[19:12] <+matt_> i can fix the whois 
[19:12] <@Bytram> matt_++ 
[19:12] <+matt_> well, by "fix" i mean "change" 
[19:12] <+matt_> the question is what to change it to 
[19:12] <+NCommander> The register (gadhi) has to fix the WHOIS 
[19:13] <@Bytram> okay, there are three 'contacts' - Registrant, Admin, and Tech... right? 
[19:13] <+NCommander> Yeah 
[19:14] <+matt_> Bytram, one snag i seem to remember is that for some reason we needed a "corporate account" (was that with the CA or gandi?) 
[19:14] <@Bytram> idk 
[19:15] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: do you remember? 
[19:15] <+NCommander> matt_, the CA requires one, but that wasn't the headache 
[19:15] <+NCommander> I can handle that side of it relatively easy 
[19:17] <+matt_> Bytram, so we had a page up on the wiki with a few options for the transfer. Given that the default option is a donation/transfer, i really think this issue boils down to the question of whether we want there to be stockholders (as would normally be the case) or for the power to be concentrated in the board. 
[19:18] <+matt_> If we can answer that question, everything else will be pretty much automatically decided, i think. 
[19:19] <@Bytram> matt_: thanks for that... 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> I think that sums it up nicely 
[19:19] <@mrcoolbp> should we press on with the agenda? 
[19:19] <+NCommander> yeah 
[19:19] <@Bytram> ummm, 
[19:20] <@Bytram> what stops us from getting the wildcard certs, for now, and deal with the stockholder/board issue later? 
[19:20] <@Bytram> or is that a 'cart before the horse' kind of thing 
[19:20] <@mrcoolbp> I'd have to defer to NCommander on how to answer that question. 
[19:21] == Ethanol-fueled [~46b32f79@ka34-838-68-197.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #staff 
[19:21] == TheMightyBuzzard [bob@Soylent/Staff/Developer/TMB] has joined #staff 
[19:21] == mode/#staff [+v TheMightyBuzzard] by juggler 
[19:21] <+NCommander> the domian has to be owned by the corporation 
[19:21] <+NCommander> That's the hangup 
[19:22] <@Bytram> corporation == "SoylentNews PBC" ?? 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: I think he was proposing that matt_ get the CA cert under his name 
[19:22] <+matt_> NCommander, as i understand it, technically the corporation simply has to have permission to use the domain. 
[19:22] <+matt_> i'm not sure if actual ownership is really required. 
[19:22] <@mrcoolbp> or that ^ 
[19:24] <@Bytram> okay, so backing up for a moment, the agenda item was: "Issue 1: Site wildcard certificates - status?" 
[19:24] <+NCommander> matt_, yeah, that's a possibility, as long as the certificate license allows you to do it for profit and such 
[19:25] <@mrcoolbp> Maybe matt_ can investigate and NCommander assist if needed 
[19:25] <+matt_> NCommander, should we do it that way? I could change the whois, and write a letter giving SN PBC express permission to obtain a wildcard cert? 
[19:25] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, yes, let me investigate that a little more to see if i can find any problems. 
[19:26] <+NCommander> matt_, that should be able to work 
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> great, thanks guys 
[19:26] <+matt_> TODO: matt_: investigate changing whois and giving SN PBC permission to apply for a wildcard cert. 
[19:26] <@paulej72> here if i am needed 
[19:26] <@Bytram> perfect! You guys are great! 
[19:26] <@Bytram> paulej72: hi! 
[19:26] <@mrcoolbp> sup paulej72 
[19:27] <@paulej72> just got to my parents :) 
[19:27] <@Bytram> May I suggest we skip agenda item 2 for now and skip ahead to 3? 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> if you like 
[19:27] <@Bytram> that way we can make some quick progress? 
[19:27] <+matt_> Bytram, since i believe you added agenda item 2, that should be fine :) 
[19:27] <@mrcoolbp> That's what I was thinking. 
[19:27] <@Bytram> item 2 has 5 parts and each of them could turn into a rats hole of discussion. 
[19:28] <+matt_> oh, one thing about item 2, though. 
[19:28] <@Bytram> matt_: yes? 
[19:28] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, at the last meeting we discussed sending out an email to the staff list asking for input on the policy doc, iirc. 
[19:28] <+matt_> perhaps it is now ready for that? 
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> yes, I need to give it a once over before I do 
[19:28] <+matt_> k. 
[19:28] <@mrcoolbp> I've been swamped lately, sorry guys 
[19:29] * mrcoolbp has a todo list 
[19:29] <@Bytram> yes; the parts I added are a ** D R A F T ** 
[19:29] <+matt_> TODO: mrcoolbp, give the policy doc. a once over, and if it is ready send an email to the staff list asking for input. 
[19:29] <@mrcoolbp> well the whole thing is a draft still 
[19:29] <@Bytram> I *really* want someone to go over them once before they go out for general review. 
[19:29] <+matt_> ok, on to agenda item 3? 
[19:29] <@Bytram> matt_: that works for me. 
[19:30] <+matt_> Issue 3: Treasurer's Report - Month of August 2014 
[19:30] <@mrcoolbp> Okay: so I don't have access to the bank account, but according to Paypal we've earned $1200 in August 
[19:30] * matt_ notes that the current bank account balance is: $1,379.49 
[19:30] <@mrcoolbp> (from subs alone) 
[19:31] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, you should have access to the bank account. 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ if there is a way for me to have a seperate loging that would be good 
[19:31] <@Bytram> yes, each person who access the account should have their *own* id 
[19:31] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, not sure if there is one. i will investigate further. 
[19:31] <@mrcoolbp> I have been withdrawing money as often as possible (from paypal to the account) to avoid any issues with paypal not feeling like giving us our money = ) 
[19:31] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp++ 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> TODO: matt_: investigate a seperate login on B o A account for mrcoolbp 
[19:32] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think paypal has a type of autosweep for that 
[19:32] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, thanks! i'm racking up the todos today! 
[19:32] <@mrcoolbp> happens sir. 
[19:32] <@Bytram> hmm, can paypal pull money *back* from a linked bank account? 
[19:33] <+NCommander> from what I've see, we're getting about a sub per day 
[19:33] <+matt_> Bytram, i really doubt that. 
[19:33] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yes minus the past 2-3 
[19:33] <@Bytram> not that I expect that to continue, but 365 * $20 = $73,120 /year 
[19:34] <+matt_> Byram, you may want to upgrade your copy of Mathematica :) 
[19:34] <@Bytram> ugh. that didn't look right! 
[19:35] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I think once we put a banner up about it, it might help 
[19:35] <@Bytram> that works out to: 365 days/year * $20/day = $5300/year 
[19:35] <@Bytram> NCommander: nod nod 
[19:35] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: yes, other thing I wanted to do was get a breakdown of expenses that we could link to from the banner with the Funding goal progress bar we built 
[19:35] <+matt_> Bytram, try once more. 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> on my todo list = ) 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> also helping TheMightyBuzzard setup bitpay account 
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[19:36] <+TheMightyBuzzard> all their bitcoins are belong to us 
[19:36] <@mrcoolbp> hopefully, at least some of them 
[19:36] <+NCommander> we got lucky on that 
[19:37] <+NCommander> yay for paypal embracing bitcoin 
[19:37] <+TheMightyBuzzard> paypal does bitcoin? 
[19:37] * Bytram had resisted increasing the font size on his cmd windows for too long 
[19:37] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: kinda but not really 
[19:38] <@Bytram> 365 * 20 = 7300 
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> that is correct 
[19:38] <@mrcoolbp> okay, are we moving to the next item or is there more to discuss on this one? 
[19:38] <@Bytram> how have we done with swag sales? 
[19:38] <+NCommander> I think we've covered it 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: sec 
[19:39] <@Bytram> k 
[19:39] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, also, are we starting to pay for hosting from the bank account? 
[19:39] <@Bytram> time's up. ;) 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: need a login that I can pay linode with 
[19:39] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: $95.63 USD, but we won't see it all for about 30 days 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> from zazzle ^ 
[19:40] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: thanks!@ 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[19:40] <@mrcoolbp> any thing else I missed? 
[19:40] * Bytram has procrastinated in getting a temp card to buy swag with. 
[19:40] <+NCommander> mrcoolbp, I can fix that 
[19:41] <@mrcoolbp> for completeness (starting balance/ending balance isn't far off from $0 -> $1200, and effectively that is the case more or less) 
[19:41] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander: thanks 
[19:42] <@Bytram> TODO: NCommander will get mrcoolbp linode access so mrcoolbp can pay monthly hosting bill 
[19:42] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: perfect! that's exactly what I was looking for! 
[19:42] <@Bytram> are we now ready to move on to the next item? 
[19:42] <@mrcoolbp> more detail would be: Starting was $100 I think, Expenses: $15 sylnt.us transfer, income of ~$1180 (paypal fees) 
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: I am 
[19:43] <@Bytram> i am 
[19:43] * matt_ is 
[19:43] <+matt_> so, we already did: Issue 4: Current Balance(s) 
[19:43] <@mrcoolbp> I think we are at Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki? 
[19:43] <@Bytram> nod nod 
[19:44] <@Bytram> I posted that one so I can elaborate 
[19:44] <@Bytram> we've espoused openness in our dealing with the community 
[19:44] <@Bytram> I am unsure just how much detail we need/want to put out there, but at a minimum... 
[19:45] <@Bytram> I would think that, for each month, a summary of where we started, what we spent, and where we ended up would be useful. 
[19:45] <@mrcoolbp> basically a summarized balance sheet 
[19:45] <@mrcoolbp> If others agree, I can't think of a good reason not to do this, other than it's yet another thing we have to do every month 
[19:45] <@Bytram> at this point, our transactions are so few, that we *could* itemize each of them, I suppose. 
[19:45] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: bintgo 
[19:45] <+TheMightyBuzzard> all in favor of making Bytram do it? 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[19:46] <+matt_> Aye! 
[19:46] <+NCommander> aye 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ROFL 
[19:46] <@Bytram> since mrcoolbp is the treasurer, I defer to him. 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ug 
[19:46] <+NCommander> we could make an assistent treasurer position 
[19:46] * NCommander strokes beard 
[19:46] <+matt_> ^^^ 
[19:46] <@mrcoolbp> ^^^^^ 
[19:47] <@Bytram> hey, I need to use the rest room... I'll be right back! =) 
[19:47] <@Bytram> j/k 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> if someone is nominating Bytram, I would Nominate paulej72 to round out to an odd number of positions 
[19:47] * mrcoolbp looks around at other board memebers 
[19:47] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, what position would you like to nominate paulej72 for? 
[19:47] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ what do we got? 
[19:47] <@paulej72> for a while 
[19:48] <+matt_> I nominate Bytram for the position of Assistant Treasurer. 
[19:48] * NCommander fires an on topic cannon 
[19:48] <@Bytram> matt_: I thought I'd been nominated for chairman a while ago 
[19:48] <+NCommander> While I want to expand the board, lets do it in a serious way 
[19:48] <@paulej72> assistant lightbulb changer 
[19:48] <@Bytram> NCommander: agreed. 
[19:49] <+matt_> NCommander, also, remember that officers need not be board members. 
[19:49] <@Bytram> topic at hand: "Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki?" 
[19:49] <@Bytram> is there anyone here who thinks we should *not* do this? 
[19:49] * mrcoolbp looks at his todo list 
[19:49] <+matt_> Bytram, well, actually, I think we were on topic, as this would be another thing for mrcoolbp's todo list. 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> = / 
[19:50] <+matt_> otherwise, i think it's a good idea. 
[19:50] <@mrcoolbp> not that hard I guess 
[19:51] <@Bytram> in spite of my recent display of math skills, if mrcoolbp can forward me all transaction data, I can help with computing the monthly tallies 
[19:51] <@mrcoolbp> once I have access, or if matt_ continues emailing monthly statements 
[19:52] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, that reminds me, i can send you the latest one now. 
[19:52] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[19:52] <@Bytram> hmm, if I could independently access the account's data, I would think it's pretty straightforward to dump as a .csv file and get a tally. 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: if sufficient, matt_ could just CC you on these 
[19:53] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: that might work. I'd have to see one, first. 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> (or I can forward them or whatever) 
[19:53] <@mrcoolbp> They are "Montly Statements" like you would get for your own account 
[19:54] <@mrcoolbp> should work 
[19:54] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: please send 'em. I'll see what I can do. 
[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> will do 
[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> okay, so moving on? 
[19:55] <@Bytram> so, we've kind of nailed down the details, is it agreed we will track treasurer's reports on the wiki? 
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[19:55] <@mrcoolbp> NCommander, matt_ what do you think? Good idea/Bad idea? 
[19:55] <+NCommander> ack 
[19:56] <+matt_> sounds good to me. 
[19:56] <@mrcoolbp> okay, it's agreed then 
[19:56] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, email sent! 
[19:56] <@Bytram> AGREED: Issue 5: Treasurer's Reports - Track on Wiki? YES. 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> matt_ rcvd, thx 
[19:57] <@mrcoolbp> okay: Issue 6: Start repayment of initial cash investments by Matt_ and NCommander? Maybe $20-$25/person/month? 
[19:57] <+matt_> so, at that rate, it would take just over 10 years to be fully repaid :) 
[19:58] <@mrcoolbp> fantastic 
[19:58] <@Bytram> matt_: optimist! 
[19:58] <@Bytram> it's just a number I pulled out of the air, not knowing where we stood with 
[19:58] <+matt_> i think repayment can be put off for now (especially considering that we barely have enough money to pay for hosting for the next few months). 
[19:58] <@Bytram> cash on hand or with cash flow. the whole idea was to at least *get started* on making you guys "whole". 
[19:59] * matt_ likes lump sums :) 
[19:59] <@Bytram> matt_: and THAT was the competing thought. 
[19:59] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: hard to gauge; we need to see how this plays out, we've only been live with subs for a few weeks, I predict they will start dropping off now 
[19:59] <@mrcoolbp> we'll get a little bump with the crypto guys 
[19:59] <+matt_> Bytram, also, personally, i would like to see money going towards generating original content, maybe paying editors/sysops/devs, and other things in the not-too-distant future, as well. 
[19:59] <+NCommander> Reddit does pretty good with their gold givings 
[20:00] <@Bytram> NCommander: ummm, what's that? 
[20:00] <@mrcoolbp> reddit gold 
[20:00] <+NCommander> Well, on reddit, eveyr post as a "Give Gold" which you can gift it, and it happens frequently enough that there's money to be had there 
[20:00] <+NCommander> I think 
[20:01] <@Bytram> so, I read a post (== story?) and if I like it, I can 'give gold' ?? 
[20:01] <+NCommander> Bingo 
[20:02] <+NCommander> We can gift subscriptions as they are now 
[20:03] <@Bytram> NCommander: interesting! So, it would *not* be considered a donation -- but more like a payment for services rendered? So, no tax law issues? 
[20:04] <+NCommander> Bytram, if we did a monthly version of the script for say 3 dollars, and then allowed it to be easily gifted 
[20:04] <+NCommander> I could see it working 
[20:04] <+NCommander> We already allow gift subscriptions 
[20:04] <+TheMightyBuzzard> hell, the mechanics are already written for it in the form of gift subscriptions. we'd just need to script up a button and allow partial subs to be bought. 
[20:04] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: like an auto-renewing, monthly subscription? 
[20:05] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: oh, nvm. I misread what you wrote. 
[20:05] <+TheMightyBuzzard> probably one-shot donation of a buck n change for a month 
[20:05] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: k, thanks! 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> <mythterj> Question from the floor: Is it true that Swag brought in less than 100 bucks ? If so how much did subscriptions bring in in the same period? 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> .voice mytherj 
[20:05] <@mrcoolbp> .voice mythterj 
[20:05] == mode/#staff [+v mythterj] by juggler 
[20:06] <@paulej72> if the price is too small it gets eaten up in fees 
[20:06] <@Bytram> paulej72: what kind of fees do we have? 
[20:06] <@mrcoolbp> mythterj: yes, more than 10x that amount, we reviewed that earlier 
[20:06] <@paulej72> paypal 
[20:07] <@paulej72> think it is .88 per, but might be moe for cc trans 
[20:07] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: you recently coded up bitcoin support... what kind of fees does that kind of transaction entail? 
[20:07] <@paulej72> not sure waht the bitpay fees are 
[20:08] <+NCommander> I thought paypal had some sorta microtransaction feature with reduced merchant fees for stuf flike this 
[20:08] <@mrcoolbp> We lose $.88 on each of our $20 transactions, it might be a percentage AND/OR fixed not sure exactly 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> zero until we hit... um... lemme get back to you on that 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> i wanna say our first million is fee-free but it might be a decimal point either way. 
[20:08] <+TheMightyBuzzard> afterwards it's a flat 1% fee 
[20:08] <+mythterj> Mrcoolbe: Thanks. I might have misses where the bulk came from, joined late. We need to push subscriptions. 
[20:08] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: thanks! 
[20:09] <+TheMightyBuzzard> fees come out of the buyer's end though. we get what we charge. 
[20:09] <@Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: nice to know. thanks! 
[20:09] <@mrcoolbp> mythterj: we have a plan to put a "Funding Goal" progress bar up very soon linking to the breakdown of what our plans for the money consists of 
[20:09] <@Bytram> okay, I think we were discussing "Issue 6: Start repayment of initial cash investments by Matt_ and NCommander? Maybe $20-$25/person/month?" 
[20:09] <+NCommander> I'm fine deferring that 
[20:09] <+NCommander> I rather see us be independent first 
[20:10] * NCommander waits for matt_'s 2 cents 
[20:10] <+matt_> ^^^^ 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: looks like they'd both like to defer until we have a little more cash flow 
[20:10] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram, and on Item #2 I'm thinking we should flesh that out before the board "ACK"s it 
[20:11] <@Bytram> how long before we should revisit this decsion? 2/3 months? start of the new year? 
[20:11] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, Bytram, on Item #2, it would be good to put it to an all-staff vote, then if it passes, have the board adopt it. 
[20:11] <@mrcoolbp> even better 
[20:11] <+matt_> Bytram, start of new year is fine by me (unless we get inexplicably rich before then). 
[20:12] * mrcoolbp shudders at the thought of a vote 
[20:12] <@Bytram> NCommander: how does the start of the new year sound to you for revisiting when we should take another look at paying you back? okay? 
[20:12] <+NCommander> works for me 
[20:12] <@mrcoolbp> TODO: The Board: revisit repaying benefactors on or around Jan 1st 2015 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> = ) 
[20:13] <@Bytram> NCommander: thanks!! 
[20:13] <@mrcoolbp> okay, are we looking at nominating an officer? 
[20:14] <+matt_> nominate away! 
[20:14] <@Bytram> I make a motion that board discussion on "Issue 2: Follow-up on SoylentNews Policy Document - Updates: " be tabled for now. Upon such time that it has been reviewed, and then sent out to staff for approval, then bring it back to the board? 
[20:14] <@mrcoolbp> yes, that seems logical 
[20:14] <+matt_> Bytram sounds good. 
[20:14] * Bytram notes that bad english is my specialty tonight. 
[20:15] <@Bytram> since I'm the usual suspect in reviewing docs, who wants to review my stuff? 
[20:15] <+matt_> i think mrcoolbp already volunteered for that. 
[20:16] <@Bytram> hmm, crutchy offered some comments on the doc already, too. I'll see if I can get him to take a look-see. 
[20:16] <@paulej72> get an ed to,look at it too 
[20:16] <@Bytram> matt_: yes, I forgot. thanks! 
[20:16] <@Bytram> paulej72: brilliant! thanks! 
[20:17] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: yeah I need to once-over the whole thing and then I guess we can see if anyone has anything they'd like to add. I'm sure we'll need to add things as times goes by, but I'm not sure the board really has to ack each one, it's more of a site-governance than a business-type thing 
[20:17] <@Bytram> matt_: there's some legal ramifications in there pertaining to copyrights, I'd appreciate your trained eye on that. 
[20:17] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: in general, I'd agree. when it comes to copyrights, and who *owns* what, that's a different matter, no? 
[20:17] <+matt_> Bytram, will do. i'll wait until mrcoolbp has a go, and then take a close look. 
[20:17] <@Bytram> matt_: much obliged! 
[20:18] <@mrcoolbp> Sure, sounds good guys. 
[20:18] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: pls send matt_ and me a head's up when you're done. 
[20:18] <@mrcoolbp> sure 
[20:18] <@Bytram> great! 
[20:19] <+matt_> mrcoolbp, you mentioned nominations. nominate now or forever hold your peace! 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> "<+matt_> I nominate Bytram for the position of Assistant Treasurer." 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> hehehe 
[20:19] <+matt_> do i hear a second? 
[20:19] <+NCommander> ack 
[20:19] <@mrcoolbp> Second 
[20:20] <@Bytram> umm, what are the the duties? 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> nothing yet =) 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> but I imagine 
[20:20] <@mrcoolbp> Treasurer's reports on wiki will be one of them = ) 
[20:20] * Bytram is pretty sure he can handle doing nothing. at least for the time being. 
[20:21] <@Bytram> I'll get back to you on that once I see what the reports look like. 
[20:21] <@mrcoolbp> Guys: we are approaching the two-hour mark, I have lots to work on 
[20:21] <+matt_> Bytram, would you like to accept the board's nomination or defer until the next meeting? 
[20:21] <+matt_> (would still require a vote) 
[20:21] <@Bytram> btw, ISTR in an early board meeting that there was discussion of needing a chairman of the baord and that my name was mentioned...it was held off as I was not in attendance. 
[20:22] <@Bytram> if THAT is still a consideration, I doubt I coul dhandle both roles. 
[20:23] <@mrcoolbp> We've kind of all been co-chairing lately 
[20:23] <@paulej72> need a fifth board member 
[20:23] <+matt_> Bytram, i believe that our bylaws currently contemplate the Chairman being a Director, so we would need to first expand the board before electing one. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> matt_: I'm leaning to accept the nomination. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> but, it's late, and I prefer not to leap before I look. 
[20:24] <+matt_> which is a whole other discussion... 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> okay, issue number one then = ) 
[20:24] <+matt_> k. sounds good. 
[20:24] <@Bytram> so, may I get back to you on that at the next board meeting? 
[20:24] <@mrcoolbp> (for the next meeting) 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> Issue One: Expand Board? Bytram has been nominated at least for an officer position and paulej72 was mentioned as well as a candidate. 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> Issue 2: recap on the Policy Document effores 
[20:25] <@Bytram> works for me. 
[20:25] <@mrcoolbp> efforts 
[20:26] <@Bytram> mrcoolbp: shall we retain the current "Issue 2" on the wiki? 
[20:27] <@mrcoolbp> Bytram: maybe we should look at those items, yeah let's leave as-is 
[20:27] <@Bytram> okay. 
[20:27] <@Bytram> that's all I got. anyone else have anything? 
[20:28] <+matt_> nope 
[20:28] <+NCommander> no 
[20:28] <@mrcoolbp> no 
[20:29] <@Bytram> is there a motion to adjourn? 
[20:30] <@Bytram> matt_ NCommander mrcoolbp "Motion to adjourn" is there a second? 
[20:30] <+matt_> second 
[20:30] <+NCommander> third 
[20:30] <@Bytram> seconded. All in favor? 
[20:30] <+matt_> Aye! 
[20:30] <@mrcoolbp> Aye! 
[20:31] <@Bytram> meeting adjourned! 
[20:31] <@Bytram> thanks everyone!

[[Category:Board of Directors meetings]]

Historic:ProposedSolutionForTheCommunityPoll

2016-10-06T00:28:41Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "ProposedSolutionForTheCommunityPoll" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
[[CommunicationSystems]] - parent

This is just a proposal, a starting place. It is meant to be amended as needed. IF you wish to amend it, put a comment at the end of this page with your name (and maybe a number) as a proposed amendment, in the form: change OLD TEXT to NEWTEXT. This way we can discuss the 'audioguy amendment 1' etc. and even vote on them if needed.

The problem roughly divides into two parts, which I think of as the 'Social Part' and the 'Technical Part' so these are dealt with separately.

== The Social Part ==
* We need to have peoples permission to email them for the voting. That permission will be obtained in this fashion:
** On Monday,SOMEDATE,UTC a notice on Soylent will go out that on Thursday,SOMEDATE,UTC a copy of the user database will be dumped.
** Anyone who has You/Preferences/Messages/DailyHeadlines set to to 'E-mail' at that time will be considered to have registered to vote and given their permission for us to email them ballots.
** Anyone who does NOT wish to participate should make sure their You/Preferences/Messages/DailyHeadlines is NOT set to E-mail on Thursday,SOMEDATE,UTC. After Thursday,SOMEDATE,UTC the preference can be set back to whatever is desired.

* A normal internal staff poll will be held for the name.
* The results of this poll will not be made public yet.
* The top five names in that poll will be reserved.
* The first stage community poll will go out (asking for submissions of names).
** What goes out as the proposed choice for this purpose will simply be the existing name.
* These names are collected, and the first poll is done on this list (which may be quite long).
* The results of that poll will be totaled, and the top five choices determined.
* The submitters of those top five choices will be contacted, and asked to provide a note promising to allow us to use the name.
* If the submitters have not already done so, we will reserve those names.
* The runoff poll will now go out to the community, but this time will include the top five choices of staff, and the top five choices of the community. (all already reserved by this point)
* At this point, the staff will have a second full vote on the same ten items the community voted on.
* The result of this vote, and the community vote, including its runoff, will then be published.
* The staff vote is the final decision. We have to live with this. But it is expected the community will have a powerful influence on the final staff vote.

== The Technical Part ==
* The existing staff poll code will be forked and installed under a new user, after at least one full test of the staff system is completed, to find any problems with the existing code.
* The database dump referred to earlier can be created from a simple script that selects the needed fields from the main db, and copies that over to the staff server for use.
* The system will, using that db, create an md5sum of the username, userid, useremail, passwordhash, and the specific poll id used (the one identified on the staff poll setup page as 'Poll Identifier'). This creates a unique user id that is non sequential, hard to guess, unique to each user, and unique to each poll.
* Code will be added to add the ability for the poll system to send each user a unique email (with their identifier, the md5sum mentioned above). I have code already which can be modified slightly for this purpose. It just reads through the database sends each email with its special id, taking the addreses and ids from the database.
* On the receiving end, procmail can be used to extract the user identifier from each email. Each email can then be saved under that identifier. This will prevent people from voting twice - each time an email is received it will overwrite any previous emails, so only the last will count. (All emails will also be copied elsewhere so they can be checked for cheaters later, if desired). This approach has the side benefit that it allows people who change their mind to do so, provided they do so before the votes are totaled.
* A check will be added so that any duplicates WITHIN the same email will also be dropped.
* A check will be added so that emails sent for the wrong phase will be dropped. (procmail)
* The code will be more heavily armored against badly formatted emails (I am already testing this).
* The regex will be tightened up to match, specifically, domain names for this particular poll. These follow a regular, predictable format.
* It is suggested that the names people submit all be under the .com first level domain, this will help remove dups. Alternately, this could be done in the code by strippimg off the endings. This would preclude the submission of 'cute' names like 'news.foryouand.me', however.
* The totalling etc should be pretty usable as is.
* Step '4. Send the first real poll out' will need to be split into two steps for the public poll. Currently it automatically grabs all the submitted poll questions, sorts and selects them, and immediately sends them out as the first poll. This is fine for small staff polls, but could be a disaster for polls with possibly hundreds or thousands of items. We need a break to do a quick manual check, 'just in case' so our computer does not send out 3000 'mistakes'. ;-)

=== Stuff requiring others help to make this happen ===

* Everyone needs to be signed up for the staff poll so that final testing can be done.
* It would be nice if we could use a virtual subdomain for this (easy for the users to remember). Needs to go into domain name. (I need to look up what was decided abou this earlier)
* If someone who is more up to date in their knowledge of mysql/sql could help with the database query, it would be faster than I could do it. (needs data from two tables, and one field may be a bitfield we need to extract a value from)
* The modifications to the vote sytem will need to be tested. Fortunately all the staff is also registered on the main site, so this can be done with this subset of users. Will need people to participate in a test poll or two.

== Proposed Amendments, Changes ==
(put your proposed changes here)

* After reading the editors discussion in staff list, I am feeling my original permission plan is flawed. This probably needs to be something that requires an active step by the user - the problem with the Daily headlines idea is that it is on by default. Looking at other possibilities.

* Attempt to use a tag in sig field aborted...
* NCommander added a checkbox to main site for this, yeah! Problem solved.

== Final Finished Plan ==

=== The Social Part (final) ===

* We need to have peoples permission to email them for the voting. That permission will be obtained in this fashion:
* A new checkbox has been created in the users section of the main site, called 'Willing to Vote'
* Users checking this box are indicating they wish to participate in the next vote, and giving us permission to email them the voting forms at the email address they used so sign up for the site.
** On Monday,SOMEDATE,UTC a notice on Soylent will go out that on Thursday,SOMEDATE,UTC a copy of the user database will be dumped.
** Anyone who has You/Preferences/Homepage/'Willing to Vote' checked at that time will be considered to have registered to vote and given their permission for us to email them ballots.
** Anyone who does NOT wish to participate should make sure this checkbox is unchecked. (It is off by default).
* A normal internal staff poll will be held for the name.
* The results of this poll will not be made public yet.
* The top five names in that poll will be reserved.

* The first stage community poll will go out (asking for submissions of names).
** What goes out as the proposed choice for this purpose will simply be the existing name.
* These names are collected, and the first poll is done on this list (which may be quite long).
* The results of that poll will be totaled, and the top five choices determined.
* The submitters of those top five choices will be contacted, and asked to provide a note promising to allow us to use the name.
* If the submitters have not already done so, we will reserve those names.
* The runoff poll will now go out to the community, but this time will include the top five choices of staff, and the top five choices of the community. (all already reserved by this point)
* At this point, the staff will have a second full vote on the same ten items the community voted on.
* The result of this vote, and the community vote, including its runoff, will then be published.
* The staff vote is the final decision. We have to live with this. But it is expected the community will have a powerful influence on the final staff vote.

* The time frames for each step will be three days plus a possible buffer day per step.
* The staff vote can happen at the same time as the community votes, these do not have to be sequential.

Historic:ProposedSolutionForTheCommunityPoll

2016-10-06T00:28:34Z

Sir Finkus:

Historic:Administration/Manifesto

2016-10-06T00:22:55Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Administration/Manifesto" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
So, I realize this has been a long time coming, but I wanted to lay down what I see for the vision of what SN comes, with when we're incorporated, this being in the basis of the bylaws, and an actual constitution for the site. Until that happens, this document should serve as a basis for both the staff and the community to know what to expect.

As we grow as a community, a pressing question is who are we, and what will become. A site lives or dies by the community that forms around it, and with all communities, there is a social contract that exists between a site and its community. The staff of any site exists to serve its community, and to meet the needs of their userbase; if we fail to do this, we will die and wither away. We need a framework in which in which problems can be identified and course corrections made before the inevitable happens. We were born out of a revolution, and now is the time to institute the social contract that prevents us from going down the same route. To that end, here are what the guiding principles that will help define what we are

== Freedom of Expression ==

Everyone has an opinion, and everyone is entitled to have and voice their own free will, and thoughts. The moment you silence someone on their beliefs is the moment you create a precedent. Removing information may be with the best of intentions, but once you have a precedent, it becomes easier to justify. The moment you decide to censor people, you take a step down a slippery road. This is a road we will not travel. To put simply, except to as required by law, we will not remove or ban users based on their posts. Any opinion has the right be posted, discussed and moderated.

That being said, this is a two way street; users are expected to not to abuse their rights. The staff reserve the right to ban a user or IPID for disruptive behaviour. A ban is a last resort, only when the moderation system is overwhelmed, and all other anti-spam provisions have failed. I hope we never get to the point where this is necessary and that we can refine moderation and spam prevent to the point that such comments will get down to -1 without staff intervention, but I'm not naive enough to believe we never have to ban someone from the site.

== Right Of Representation ==

It has been stated before and again, but this site and staff exist to serve the community, not via versus.

== Concept Of No Ivory Towers ==

There's one great secret about any website, the folks running it are human too, and we have the ability to get something wrong. None of the staff (including myself) are immune from criticism, and if we screw up, we need to correct it. There shall be no ivory tower where something is immune to the community feedback; if something has to change, it will change. Moderation, staffing, commenting, if something is broken, we will fix it. If we get something wrong, we will take steps to address it.

'''Right Of Reversion'''

Historic:Administration/Manifesto

2016-10-06T00:22:45Z

Sir Finkus:

Historic:To do

2016-10-06T00:20:39Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "To do" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
This appears to be archival, '''check: [[TodoList]] or [[Development]]''' instead.

[[SlashcodeTodo|Slashcode Todo list]]

* Install SlashCode on the production site
* Get some people to help with the site
* Run a contest for a better name [[NewName|New name discussion]]
* Incorporate
* Consult a lawyer
* How to handle Advertising (necessary evil) - Opt Out, Limited, Typical(box with ads in the top-right corner)?
::Why can't we have an advertising cookie with things we are in the market for? I.e. if I'm in the market for a computer, I see computer-related ads. If I opt out, then I don't see any ads. An interest-centric (not user centric) cookie. <=='''+1 Insightful'''
:::OK, this is brilliant and adds agency to a necessary evil, should seriously consider trying something like this.
* Improved Mod/Meta-Mod/Story-Selection system to minimize required editor input
* Provide a voting system to decide which articles hit the main page (Mod point related?)
* Find and submit some stories

Historic:To do

2016-10-06T00:20:31Z

Sir Finkus:

Historic:SignificantNumbers

2016-09-27T23:24:03Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "SignificantNumbers" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
Numbers significant to geek culture:

*2600: 2600 hertz, the tone used by a blue box to gain control of telephone networks
*1337: "leet speak" for "elite"
*6667
*42
*23
*22
*80
*119
*cat /etc/services: ... obviously =)

Historic:SignificantNumbers

2016-09-27T23:23:54Z

Sir Finkus:

SystemAdministration-OLD-2024

2016-09-27T22:52:01Z

Sir Finkus: removed obsolete information

[[TeamPages]] - parent, [[Development]]

==Welcome==

This is a comphensive index dealing with aspects of system administration and management of our clusters, as well as some of the more archine bits of setup required to make it work.

==Who we are==
<section begin=whoarewe />
{| class="wikitable" width="100%"
!colspan="3"|'''[[SystemAdministration|Sysop Team Main Page]]'''
|-
| style="width: 20%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''nick'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''position'''
| style="width: 40%; background-color: #f2f2f2;"|
'''timezone'''
|-
| [[User:paulej72|paulej72]]
| Co-leader
| UTC-4 (EDT)
|-
| mechanicjay
| Co-leader
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|-
| NCommander
| Member
| UTC-9 (AKDT)
|-
| Audioguy
| Member
| UTC-7 (PST/PDT)
|-
| The Mighty Buzzard
| Emergency Reserve Member
| UTC-5 (CST/CDT)
|-
| martyb/bytram
| Catastrophe Reserve Member
| UTC-4 (EST/EDT)
|}
<section end=whoarewe />

==Index of Development Pages and Resources==

===Servers===

List of servers on linode: [http://wiki.soylentnews.org/wiki/Category:SystemAdministration/Servers Category:SystemAdministration/Servers]
* [[soylent-www]] - Primary Apache, mysqld, and varnish servers for main site. Fluorine hosts slashd and ipnd as well.
:: [[Hydrogen]], [[Fluorine]]
* soylent-db -- ndb-cluster servers for mysql, hold the rehash database.
:: [[Helium]], [[Neon]]
* dev -- Development server.
:: [[Lithium]]
* staff-slash -- Staff server, ssh entry point, staff-only rehash.
:: [[Boron]]
* irc -- IRC server and related services.
:: [[Beryllium]]
* [[SystemAdministration/Backups|backups]] -- Backup services. (NOT on linode)
:: [[Oxygen]]
* directory services -- Hesoid and Kerberos.
:: [[Helium]], [[Boron]]
* [[soylent-services]] - mail, wiki, other services as needed.
:: [[Beryllium]]
* [[load-balancer]]
:: [[Sodium]], [[Magnesium]]

==Resources==
* [[SystemAdministration/AccessInstruction|Access Instructions]] - how to get on the nodes, get around, and kerberos for users primer
* [[SystemAdministration/GroupPermissions|Group Permissions]] - understanding our LDAP groups, what machines they can access, and where you can sudo
* [[SystemAdministration/LDAPManagementForDummies|LDAP Management for Dummies]] - how to do basic shit in that source of miserary known as LDAP
* [[SystemAdministration/TheRiseAndFallOfNewNodeManagement|The Rise And Fall Of New Node Management]] - from bash to fully intergrated node, this doc has it
* [[SystemAdministration/TheHitchhikersGuideToTheli694-22Domain|The Hitchhikerr's Guide to The li694-22 Domain]] - machine list, general information
* [[SystemAdministration/KerberosAdministration|Kerberos Administration Or Everything You Wanted To Know About Kerberos But Were Afraid To Ask]]
* [[DnsRecords]] - copy of the zone file pasted from the machine that was accidentally turned off
* [[EmergencyProcedures|Emergency Technical Procedures]] - in case of fire, break glass (Read before messing with servers)
* [[SystemAdministration/Backups|Backup Information]] - information on where and what is being backed up.

[[Category:Teams]]
[[Category:System administration]]

Historic:Stories from former Slashdot users

2016-09-27T20:56:59Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Stories from former Slashdot users" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
[[Confessions of an Ex-Slashdot Beta User]]

[[Banned from Slashdot]]

[[Dice is killing Slashdot]]

Historic:Stories from former Slashdot users

2016-09-27T20:56:52Z

Sir Finkus:

{{archival}}
[[Confessions of an Ex-Slashdot Beta User]]

[[Banned from Slashdot]]

[[Dice is killing Slashdot]]

Historic:Comments

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Sir Finkus: Protected "Comments" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
== Noteworthy Comments==
*Grabbed the Domain Names: AltSlashdot.org, Soylentnews.org
*Other potential website solutions
::Bruce Perens (created "technocrat.net") is aware of Soylentnews.org and is considering contributing (Relaunch ?? stay tuned)
::/. user 'dotancohen' registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot (He is willing to coordinate and has cloud experience)
::Add info on Pipedot...[http://pipedot.org/ pipedot.org] by 'Bryan'
::User somenickname (1270442) has registered bangslashdot.(org|net|com)
::Usenet was also suggested as an alternative 'comp.misc is the new Slashdot'
*Scrapping content from old Slashdot suggestion made. benefits/drawbacks ? Overall I think this is a thumbs down
::Content is easier to "find"
::Moral/Legal objections were brought up (Even if it was initially "our" content)
::We should build our own brand
::Pointless to scrap, since it is the comments that draw people in
::Editors should be in multiple timezones to cleanup/improve/multi-source submissions for presentation to the main page
*Initial code build will be from Slashcode... Available (Git?), Old:(5 years) Workable:(maybe)
*Alternate choices for code base: Wiki, Discourse, Usenet
*Non-profit vs For-profit discussion should go here ( [[Business]] )
:: Debian style project organization ?
:: Community driven projects need strong leadership or they tend to flounder
*Codebase
:: Code should be in the public domain
:: Allow the entire website (Stories+Comments+Code)? to be created as a Creative commons work - codebase also available ?
:: AGPL
*Keep the former Slashdot community together

[[Comment History]]

== Comments ==


* Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization '''please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* From Hacker News on Slashdot: 'When you have the same group of minds selecting the content that gets seen, over the course of years, the users eventually get burnt out seeing the same type of stuff, chosen by the same people over and over again. The content becomes stale even if its fresh <--- A really good point

* Check this out while it's still available. feedback appreciated http://slashdot.org/submission/3324011/a-modest-proposal-re-beta-vs-classic?utm_source=rss1.0&utm_medium=feed&sbsrc=firehose

Historic:Comments

2016-09-27T20:56:17Z

Sir Finkus:

Historic:Comment History

2016-09-27T20:55:41Z

Sir Finkus: Protected "Comment History" ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))

{{archival}}
* I've picked up the domain altslash.org, and I'm looking to be a part of a join effort to create a slashdot alternative more in the style of the classic slashdot system. I picked up this domain simply because a lot of the alternatives being discussed (e.g., altslashdot.org) may end up being the target of a trademark dispute. The "trademark" for altslash.org would be altslash, with the "dot.org" being merged into .org. It reads the same way as the original "slashdot.org," but looks very clean in my opinion.

* Have you considered talking with Bruce Parens? He had a site called "technocrat.net" that some people from slashdot were quite fond of not too long ago. It seems some people on slashdot are already trying to get him to re-launch it. I don't know if the two of you would have compatible goals or not, but it might be worth sending him an email. He has a parking page up on technocrat.net right now that has his email address on it.

* I'm a professional web developer and can help. I was about to register a domain on my VPS to start something like this. If you want, I'll do what I can to help. I've built a few CMS from scratch and am downloading slashcode right now. Incidentally I'm a hybrid as I am also a digital artist (namely in UI). We need an IRC channel to talk about this I think.--[[User:Hedgie|Hedgie]] ([[User talk:Hedgie|talk]]) 18:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I don't know about other people, but I think I would be more liable to stick with an alternative if it scraped content from original /. in addition to whatever else you do. [[Special:Contributions/173.13.21.65|173.13.21.65]] 09:21, 6 February 2014 (MST)

*''I'm against this. I don't consider it fair - they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community. If we are to succeed, we need to do it on our own merits."

*There are no doubt legal as well as moral objections to content scraping, but when you say "...they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community...", well, for over 15 years *we* have been that community and if not for us there would be some former college students who used to have a little hobby site.--unitron

* Scraping bad. Having editors dotted around the timezones that create their own better versions of the summaries, even if they contain just the same links as the /. story that inspired them, not bad. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:14, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Agree with scraping bad. The general trend for the summaries has gone downhill badly over the past few years so better to have editors (re-)publish articles even if they use the same (or better) links ([[User:Qwade|Qwade]])

* Scraping Slashdot is pointless. It's been said many times, the discussion is the thing, not the articles. Considered purely as a news site, Slashdot is CRAP, always has been. Speaking of discussion, a Wiki is about the worst discussion medium I can imagine - is there anywhere we can move this to? - Mike Baranczak, 2014-02-07

* Maybe a wiki is the best way to do this? I see you've started with slashcode, but that might be a misstep. You have noticed by now that slashcode hasn't been updated in many years, hence it will be way behind the current slashdot.

*I think you might be better off hacking a wiki into slashdot-style functionality.
''I agree, this may be a misstep (and this occurred to me independently of your note). My best guess is to attempt installing slashcode and see where that goes, and try for a new system if it's unworkable. We'll see.''

:* I think hacking slashcode into slashdot-style functionality would be easier and better than hammering a wiki into that round hole. [[User:Mfnickster|Mfnickster]] ([[User talk:Mfnickster|talk]])

*[[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikinews]] is Wikimedia's attempt to turn a wiki in to a news site. Not sure how easy that would be to mold in to a more Slashdotty site

* If you don't want to use the old slashcode, have you considered looking at '''discourse''' as the site server? AFAICT, it's a reasonably new project which being developed intended to address the authors' perceived flaws in the status-quo of forum software. It's written in JavaScript, but it might serve as a starting point for a new codebase, or worth a look to get some inspiration:
::http://www.discourse.org/faq/
::https://github.com/discourse/discourse

* '''Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

*''In my experience, community-driven projects don't usually do well. This is not to say that no such projects succeed, but the balance of probability does not favor group management.''

*''There is a wide selection of projects which are successful because one person had a vision and the drive to make that vision happen - every successful business starts this way.''

*''I've run businesses that use a lot of volunteer help, so I've got some experience there.''

*''As far as selling the website, it's crossed my mind. I don't want to "sell out" and destroy the community, but it would be nice to have an "exit strategy". Commenting on Slashdot fun, but doing it as a day job will probably get tedious.''

*''I don't know what the answer is - it's something that we'll have to work out.''

* Attempt to '''coordinate and combine''' the parallel efforts. E.g. Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~dotancohen dotancohen] has [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46171009 apparently] registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot there. There are probably a dozen people hacking away separately on similar efforts. Competition is probably good, but combining efforts should be considered. --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].

* [https://github.com/digilord DigiLord] - I would like to help

* I'm the dotancohen mentioned by JustinOpinion. I have some limited experience with Amazon Web Services to run cloud servers for sites with very dynamic load profiles. Altslashdot seems like the perfect application of that technology, as we can expect to get slashdotted at any time. I also agree that we should coordinate efforts, as the whole premise is to keep the /. community together. [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:38, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Re: combining efforts. User somenickname (1270442) has registered bangslashdot.(org|net|com) [[http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757113&cid=46169131]]

* I ([[User:Bryan|Bryan]]) also plan on making a slashdot-inspired site. The website will be called "Pipedot" and be reachable at [http://pipedot.org/ pipedot.org] or [http://pipedot.com/ pipedot.com]. The motto will be "News for nerds, without the corporate slant." Get it? A pipe character looks like a slash without the slant! However, I plan on creating my own software instead of using slashcode/mediawiki/etc so it may take a while to get feature complete with slashdot classsic. (Why? Because I've always wanted to scratch that itch. Duh!)

* I think it would be best to just go over to Usenet. It is distributed, uncensorable, scales extremely well, the infrastructure is already in place, and it works. No Javascript, no business models, nothing but pure text-mode comment goodness. [http://www.eternal-september.org Eternal September] is free and works well, but does not allow binaries. That's fine, we have magnet links these days. EDIT: comp.misc is the new Slashdot. It's official now. Join us there and keep it free as in FREEDOM!

* I suggest that when updates to the code are made, it should be in the charter (or whatever we are calling it) to make that code public. -- CommonJoe

::* See [[SoylentNews#Licensing.3F|my questions about licensing below]]. The AGPL would guarantee that the code remain public... anyone actually working with the new site/codebase want to weigh in? ~ [[User:Seandiggity|Seandiggity]] ([[User talk:Seandiggity|talk]]) 07:56, 10 February 2014 (MST)

* Additional points: Make the whole website (including stories/comments) available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC-BY-SA] to retain the [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork right to fork]. You should also reconsider the name. I imagine "AltSlashdot" could get you into all sorts of legal trouble, since it is very close to the "Slashdot" trademark. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

* Relevant Slashdot stats from 2011 [[http://www.dbasoul.com/2011/992.html]]
:::5.5 million user visits per month.
:::7,000 comments are added every day.
:::Over 9 million pages views daily.
:::Over 21 million comments.
:::Average monthly bandwidth usage is around 40-50 mbit/sec (450GB/day)