SoylentNews - User contributions [en]

SoylentNews

2014-02-13T08:09:55Z

Sfm:

[[FAQ|Frequently Asked Questions]] ... Was your question not answered? Get on IRC and pester the relevant person: [[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]

'''Feb 13, 2014 12:33AM EST:''' Status

A select few editors, dev, and system types are working through the system finding bugs. User registration works, there are stories on the front page, comments and replies.

We could use a temporary bug tracking system that's easily accessible by the users (ie - not requiring onerous registration). Can anyone hook us up?
: How about "Bug:" namespace here on wiki? [[User:Yahwotqa|Yahwotqa]] ([[User talk:Yahwotqa|talk]]) 00:45, 13 February 2014 (MST) <=== Done

E-mail me: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) com

'''Feb 12, 2014 9:40PM EST:''' Status

Freenode is complaining "Server is full" and not letting me into chat, so this is a '''guess status''' :-)

Thanks to everyone who volunteered to help test the system this evening. At the last minute, the team found a nest of bugs that effectively broke the moderation system, so testing was put off until 10:PM EST, and then later was put off until Thu.

* Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn’t have to do it himself.
* Any project can be estimated accurately once it’s completed.
* The sooner you get behind schedule, the more time you have to make it up.
* A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected
* A well planned project only twice as long as expected.
* Schedules are made to be broken
* Work expands to fill the Time. Cost expands to meet the Budget.
* The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The last 10% takes the other 90%.
* The only certainty in a project is uncertainty
* On time, on budget, on spec – pick 2.

==WE HAVE A FIRST POST==

From the site:
I know its been a long wait, but we've been steadily moving towards launch. With luck, you're reading this on the main index of the site, which means we've gone, and haven't gone mad in the process. Now that we're here, we hope to have made the wait worth it, but we depend on everyone in the community. To make this site a success, we depend on each and every single user even if its just from passing word of mouth. Remember, every single user can submit stories, moderate, and contribute to discussions all at the same time, and that's what makes us unique. May I be the first to welcome you to your new home.

[[http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16708]]

'''Site Announcements'''

'''Feb 11, 2014 8:01PM EST:''' Status

Yeah, yeah... we're working on it.

We're starting to get overlords that manage various features. An overlord is responsible for granting access - it's intended to be a ''no work'' position, so that it can be held for long periods without requiring much time.

So for example, Applesmasher is the overlord of forums. He grants access to people and recovers access when people leave, but he doesn't ''have'' to do any work himself (although he can if he wants). He ensures that the people with access are reliable.

So if you need a forum for your group, ask the overlord of forums. If you want a set of wiki pages, ask the overlord of the wiki, and so on.

The current overlords have agreed to hold the position until Mar 1, at which time we will choose overlords via some formal process. (And the current overlords might ask to continue.)

The current overlords can be contacted here:

art@SoylentNews.org

editors@SoylentNews.org

forums@SoylentNews.org

wiki@SoylentNews.org

chat@SoylentNews.org

There will be more to come. This is temporary to get us going - the community can change the structure later, but for now things seem to naturally separate into these areas of interest.

'''Feb 11, 2014 3:01PM EST:''' Status

We have a working system, and two people fixing the CSS (sadly, none for sphinx). As far as I can tell, we're trying to get the high-bandwidth aspects of the site running: Varnish, MySQL configuration options, and such. We want the system to be able to withstand a tsunami of visitors 10 meters high.

The system team has been working around the clock to get things running, and I mean that literally. I have to as-much-as order people to break off at night and go to bed. They *really* want to see this thing work. Send them some love in chat if you can.

Note that these are not "deadlines", nor do I particularly care if we miss them: We're reporting when we "predict" things will be ready. The first 90% of the project is done, now we're working on the remaining 90%.

Stand by for launch...

P.S. - Check out the logo

'''Feb 11, 2014 12:01PM EST:''' Need some sphinx help

We still need [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_(search_engine) sphinx (search engine)]
expertise, so if you are familiar with this package, please E-mail me:

If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

----

'''The Slashcott is getting attention'''
:A selection of Slashcott/Beta comments from around the web.......

::* http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/slashdots-new-interface-could-kill-what-keeps-slashdot-relevant/ <=== Nice article by Ars
::* http://spallshurgenson.blogspot.com/2014/02/tragedy-of-commons-redesigning-social.html <=== A good summary of the situation
::* https://community.republicwireless.com/thread/23151 <== "How not to treat your community"
::* http://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2014/02/biting-hand-feeds-less-boycotting-slashdot-org-1-week
::* http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/442346-trouble-at-slashdot

Check out the [http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16688| look and feel] of the new site!

----

'''To everyone involved... THANK YOU!'''

We are building a news site alternative to Slashdot. We have started only a few days ago, and this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

The idea is to build a news aggregation site that delivers what's important - better articles, less fluff, and all the functionality you expect from the moderation system. We are still looking for volunteers so stop by the boards and the IRC and let us know you want to help!

* The proposed business model is [[Finances|here]] 
* Some business planning is [[Business|here]] 
* A statement of functionality (turn into a requirements document?)--- [[FeatureList]]

''' Get Involved '''

'''Hop in to IRC!''' - [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]]: ##altslashdot on chat.freenode.net ([https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=##altslashdot Webchat], we are growing in [http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?net=freenode&room=%23%23altslashdot strength!])

'''Register on the forums''' - http://forums.SoylentNews.org
* Go to forums.SoylentNews.org and register a user
* Read [http://forums.soylentnews.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38&sid=e55255cb6dfe68b28c8cf5f2b9697a64| this] post if you are having problems. (Thanks MrGuy)
* Add yourself to whichever groups you are interested in
* For tech issues with the forum software, please Email Joel: soylent (at) finite (dot) ms

'''Slashcott''' Organized boycott of the Dice-owned Slashdot pages
* Show your support for the "Get rid of Beta" crowd by avoiding Slashdot during the week of February 10-17

'''Tell Somebody''' A friend, a colleague, any major news source....
*Do what you can to get the word out

'''Contact:'''
If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

==Status==

Check out the [[FAQ]]

* Forums are available at forums.SoylentNews.org
::The forums have four user groups: Code, Content, Style, and System.
* We upgraded the hosting by two tiers
* The System team is working on installing SlashCode. They are busting their collective tails to get this site up for us. Hopefylly, soon!
* Probably won't be non-profit, see [[Finances|business model]].
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

Mailing list update Messages are [[MailingListUpdates|here]]

== Site Name ==
We have a '''temporary''' name!

Thanks go out to everyone who made suggestions - some of them were
absolutely brilliant! For example, it hadn't occurred to me to choose a name based on a
non-English word, or a palindrome, or a puzzle. Many of the entries were quite clever.
(Adies, it took me more than a day to figure yours out. Bravo!)

I won't post the runners up because squatters might take the names before we hold the real
contest. We'll figure out a way to prevent this somehow - at worst case we can choose judges
and do it privately.

Jerry had the winning entry.

The temp name is: '''SoylentNews''' with the tagline: '''SoylentNews is people!'''

Does this rock? It hits the trifecta of website goodness:

* Descriptive in a way that mundanes will understand (compare "Photoshop" with "GIMP", "Internet Explorer" with "Firefox", and "MediaPlayer" with "VLC")

* It's part of Nerd culture, a pun, and slightly twisted

* It's suggestive of being community driven

* Possible Trademark issues

* It is attached to some movie about eating corpses and implies "News fresh as processed corpses" (??)

This will be a hard act to beat. Start thinking up names for the contest, or throw your weight
behind this one. The contest will be held soon after we open the doors.

(And it was poutine (from IRC) who suggested we use a temporary name. Others may also have suggested it, but it was his post that I noticed. Be sure to thank him if you see him on IRC.)

== List of Discussion Pages ==
*[[NewName|NewName]]
*[[MailingListUpdates|MailingListUpdates]]
*[[Finances|Finances]] -- which model would allow to minimise and/or distribute hosting costs
*[[Business|Business]]
*[[Extended moderation|Moderation]] -- how/if to enhance; was it so bad it was the primary reason for the diaspora?
*[[FeatureList]] -- discussion of required/desired characteristics
*[[Submission guidelines|Submission guidelines]]
*[[Content]]
*[[Style]]
*[[Migration of users from Slashdot]] -- how to handle Nicks and UIDs
*[[Licensing]]
*[[WhosWho]] -- points of contact in different project areas
*[[Spreading the word]]
*[[Comments]]
*[[To do]]
*[[Bugs]]
*[[Stories from former Slashdot users]]

== IRC ==
General Slashdot Discussion: Come on IRC channel #slashdot at irc.slashnet.org. Or use the web client: http://www.slashnet.org/webclient

SoylentNews Discussion: Head to IRC channel ##AltSlashdot on irc.freenode.net, Web client is here: https://webchat.freenode.net/

'''Mumble (Voice / Text Server)''' : voice.whackperiod.org

__NOTOC__

SoylentNews

2014-02-13T08:07:17Z

Sfm:

[[FAQ|Frequently Asked Questions]] ... Was your question not answered? Get on IRC and pester the relevant person: [[WhosWho| Who's Who?]]

'''Feb 13, 2014 12:33AM EST:''' Status

A select few editors, dev, and system types are working through the system finding bugs. User registration works, there are stories on the front page, comments and replies.

We could use a temporary bug tracking system that's easily accessible by the users (ie - not requiring onerous registration). Can anyone hook us up?

E-mail me: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) com

'''Feb 12, 2014 9:40PM EST:''' Status

Freenode is complaining "Server is full" and not letting me into chat, so this is a '''guess status''' :-)

Thanks to everyone who volunteered to help test the system this evening. At the last minute, the team found a nest of bugs that effectively broke the moderation system, so testing was put off until 10:PM EST, and then later was put off until Thu.

* Nothing is impossible for the person who doesn’t have to do it himself.
* Any project can be estimated accurately once it’s completed.
* The sooner you get behind schedule, the more time you have to make it up.
* A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected
* A well planned project only twice as long as expected.
* Schedules are made to be broken
* Work expands to fill the Time. Cost expands to meet the Budget.
* The first 90% of a project takes 90% of the time. The last 10% takes the other 90%.
* The only certainty in a project is uncertainty
* On time, on budget, on spec – pick 2.

==WE HAVE A FIRST POST==

From the site:
I know its been a long wait, but we've been steadily moving towards launch. With luck, you're reading this on the main index of the site, which means we've gone, and haven't gone mad in the process. Now that we're here, we hope to have made the wait worth it, but we depend on everyone in the community. To make this site a success, we depend on each and every single user even if its just from passing word of mouth. Remember, every single user can submit stories, moderate, and contribute to discussions all at the same time, and that's what makes us unique. May I be the first to welcome you to your new home.

[[http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16708]]

'''Site Announcements'''

'''Feb 11, 2014 8:01PM EST:''' Status

Yeah, yeah... we're working on it.

We're starting to get overlords that manage various features. An overlord is responsible for granting access - it's intended to be a ''no work'' position, so that it can be held for long periods without requiring much time.

So for example, Applesmasher is the overlord of forums. He grants access to people and recovers access when people leave, but he doesn't ''have'' to do any work himself (although he can if he wants). He ensures that the people with access are reliable.

So if you need a forum for your group, ask the overlord of forums. If you want a set of wiki pages, ask the overlord of the wiki, and so on.

The current overlords have agreed to hold the position until Mar 1, at which time we will choose overlords via some formal process. (And the current overlords might ask to continue.)

The current overlords can be contacted here:

art@SoylentNews.org

editors@SoylentNews.org

forums@SoylentNews.org

wiki@SoylentNews.org

chat@SoylentNews.org

There will be more to come. This is temporary to get us going - the community can change the structure later, but for now things seem to naturally separate into these areas of interest.

'''Feb 11, 2014 3:01PM EST:''' Status

We have a working system, and two people fixing the CSS (sadly, none for sphinx). As far as I can tell, we're trying to get the high-bandwidth aspects of the site running: Varnish, MySQL configuration options, and such. We want the system to be able to withstand a tsunami of visitors 10 meters high.

The system team has been working around the clock to get things running, and I mean that literally. I have to as-much-as order people to break off at night and go to bed. They *really* want to see this thing work. Send them some love in chat if you can.

Note that these are not "deadlines", nor do I particularly care if we miss them: We're reporting when we "predict" things will be ready. The first 90% of the project is done, now we're working on the remaining 90%.

Stand by for launch...

P.S. - Check out the logo

'''Feb 11, 2014 12:01PM EST:''' Need some sphinx help

We still need [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphinx_(search_engine) sphinx (search engine)]
expertise, so if you are familiar with this package, please E-mail me:

If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

----

'''The Slashcott is getting attention'''
:A selection of Slashcott/Beta comments from around the web.......

::* http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/02/slashdots-new-interface-could-kill-what-keeps-slashdot-relevant/ <=== Nice article by Ars
::* http://spallshurgenson.blogspot.com/2014/02/tragedy-of-commons-redesigning-social.html <=== A good summary of the situation
::* https://community.republicwireless.com/thread/23151 <== "How not to treat your community"
::* http://www.tidbitsfortechs.com/2014/02/biting-hand-feeds-less-boycotting-slashdot-org-1-week
::* http://community.spiceworks.com/topic/442346-trouble-at-slashdot

Check out the [http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16688| look and feel] of the new site!

----

'''To everyone involved... THANK YOU!'''

We are building a news site alternative to Slashdot. We have started only a few days ago, and this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

The idea is to build a news aggregation site that delivers what's important - better articles, less fluff, and all the functionality you expect from the moderation system. We are still looking for volunteers so stop by the boards and the IRC and let us know you want to help!

* The proposed business model is [[Finances|here]] 
* Some business planning is [[Business|here]] 
* A statement of functionality (turn into a requirements document?)--- [[FeatureList]]

''' Get Involved '''

'''Hop in to IRC!''' - [[SoylentNews:IRC|IRC]]: ##altslashdot on chat.freenode.net ([https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=##altslashdot Webchat], we are growing in [http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?net=freenode&room=%23%23altslashdot strength!])

'''Register on the forums''' - http://forums.SoylentNews.org
* Go to forums.SoylentNews.org and register a user
* Read [http://forums.soylentnews.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38&sid=e55255cb6dfe68b28c8cf5f2b9697a64| this] post if you are having problems. (Thanks MrGuy)
* Add yourself to whichever groups you are interested in
* For tech issues with the forum software, please Email Joel: soylent (at) finite (dot) ms

'''Slashcott''' Organized boycott of the Dice-owned Slashdot pages
* Show your support for the "Get rid of Beta" crowd by avoiding Slashdot during the week of February 10-17

'''Tell Somebody''' A friend, a colleague, any major news source....
*Do what you can to get the word out

'''Contact:'''
If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

==Status==

Check out the [[FAQ]]

* Forums are available at forums.SoylentNews.org
::The forums have four user groups: Code, Content, Style, and System.
* We upgraded the hosting by two tiers
* The System team is working on installing SlashCode. They are busting their collective tails to get this site up for us. Hopefylly, soon!
* Probably won't be non-profit, see [[Finances|business model]].
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

Mailing list update Messages are [[MailingListUpdates|here]]

== Site Name ==
We have a '''temporary''' name!

Thanks go out to everyone who made suggestions - some of them were
absolutely brilliant! For example, it hadn't occurred to me to choose a name based on a
non-English word, or a palindrome, or a puzzle. Many of the entries were quite clever.
(Adies, it took me more than a day to figure yours out. Bravo!)

I won't post the runners up because squatters might take the names before we hold the real
contest. We'll figure out a way to prevent this somehow - at worst case we can choose judges
and do it privately.

Jerry had the winning entry.

The temp name is: '''SoylentNews''' with the tagline: '''SoylentNews is people!'''

Does this rock? It hits the trifecta of website goodness:

* Descriptive in a way that mundanes will understand (compare "Photoshop" with "GIMP", "Internet Explorer" with "Firefox", and "MediaPlayer" with "VLC")

* It's part of Nerd culture, a pun, and slightly twisted

* It's suggestive of being community driven

* Possible Trademark issues

* It is attached to some movie about eating corpses and implies "News fresh as processed corpses" (??)

This will be a hard act to beat. Start thinking up names for the contest, or throw your weight
behind this one. The contest will be held soon after we open the doors.

(And it was poutine (from IRC) who suggested we use a temporary name. Others may also have suggested it, but it was his post that I noticed. Be sure to thank him if you see him on IRC.)

== List of Discussion Pages ==
*[[NewName|NewName]]
*[[MailingListUpdates|MailingListUpdates]]
*[[Finances|Finances]] -- which model would allow to minimise and/or distribute hosting costs
*[[Business|Business]]
*[[Extended moderation|Moderation]] -- how/if to enhance; was it so bad it was the primary reason for the diaspora?
*[[FeatureList]] -- discussion of required/desired characteristics
*[[Submission guidelines|Submission guidelines]]
*[[Content]]
*[[Style]]
*[[Migration of users from Slashdot]] -- how to handle Nicks and UIDs
*[[Licensing]]
*[[WhosWho]] -- points of contact in different project areas
*[[Spreading the word]]
*[[Comments]]
*[[To do]]
*[[Bugs]]
*[[Stories from former Slashdot users]]

== IRC ==
General Slashdot Discussion: Come on IRC channel #slashdot at irc.slashnet.org. Or use the web client: http://www.slashnet.org/webclient

SoylentNews Discussion: Head to IRC channel ##AltSlashdot on irc.freenode.net, Web client is here: https://webchat.freenode.net/

'''Mumble (Voice / Text Server)''' : voice.whackperiod.org

__NOTOC__

Traditional moderation

2014-02-13T03:39:15Z

Sfm:

* I forget who suggested this originally, but in addition to the above constraints, only allow users to moderate a subset of any particular article's comments.
::This seems like a bad idea. A moderator should be allowed access to any comment under an article. Maybe set a limit on how many points they can burn in a particular article, but don't make some comments off-limits based on an arbitrary randomization process.

* '''Moderation Engine'''
::{| class="wikitable"
|+ Moderation tags (default scores)
|-
! Mod Up
! Points
! Mod Down
! Points
|-
| Interesting
| +1
| Offtopic
| -1
|-
| Informative
| +1
| Troll/Spam
| -1
|-
| Insightful
| +1
| Groupthink ('''New''')
| -1 (or -0.5?)
|-
| Underrated
| +0.5 ('''New''')
| Overrated
| -0.5 ('''New''')
|-
| Funny
| +0.5 ('''New''')
| Flamebait
| -0.5 ('''New''')
|-
| Devils Advocate ('''New!''')
| +1
| Jibberish ('''New!''')
| -1
|}

::::'''Also suggested:''' Bullshit, I_disagree, Controversial

* Users assign own weights to tags in the range -2.0 -> 2.0 with 0.5 increments
* System rounds x.5 towards 0 in comment spill / threshold logic, display capped at -1 and 5.
* A score for the default weights is saved for the comment for use by article spill (for googlebot or "load all comments" from anonmyous user)
* An optional cryptocoin tipping system, when you like someone's post you can give him a small cryptocoin tip. That might also work as an additional moderating system. Non-moderators could mod-up comments (Insightful, Funny, etc) by eg. 0.5 points by spending some money.

* I think it would be good to display both the positive mods and negative mods on a comment in a concise form (so you could see that this comment is generally regarded both Insightful.... but also Flamebait) <== Or a total of positive and negative comments to take up less space
* I like the idea of a system that allows users to have mod points on a regular basis. That way they do not feel like they have to use up all their points on comments that don't deserve them. A much better quality of moderation should do a better job of making the best comments float to the top.
* Let users set both ends of their moderation based comment 'scope'. To see the highlights, set at +4 and above. To look for abusive moderations, set to display 0 and below. (And I'm sure that someone will want to browse "only the 3's", so the system should allow that too). It was also suggested that we have a method to filter out posts from AC.

'''Discussion: Ability to comment and moderate in the same article'''
* What about not-posting in the thread where you moderated? Good or bad rule? Maybe if you really must post, allow cryptocoin paying for post? (eg. "Warning: you have moderated in this thread (or whole story), if you really want to post you need to spend cryptocoin on that" (??)) Not posting in the thread is okay, and much better than disallowing the whole story.
* I believe the ability to add a comment to an article after you have already moderated in that tree is a benefit. But can also see a path for abuse. While not a fan of Cryptocoin, what about letting a moderator add a comment, but at a cost of a mod point ??

===Moderation strategy===
* Chops instead of Karma
* Chops are derived from:
:: Articles accepted for submission
::: But NOT articles self-authored on a channel you're an editor of
:: Comments that are replied to by others without a troll/flamebait modifier
:: Positive moderation (as judged by the mod action with respect to their own point value weights... so if they think funny is bad, it counts against you)
:: Positive metamoderation outcome (see below) Discussion required
* Registered users that have used the site > [threshold] days, posted > [threshold] times, and have positive chops get moderation duty (possibly [x] mod points per day?)
* The more chops, the more mod points per day, with a total cap for unused points

'''Meta-moderation'''
Meta-moderation is a check and balance system that acts to identify bad moderators. It works best when a large number of users are available and willing to evaluate a comment's existing moderaton values
* Meta-moderation is available to users that have used the site > [big threshold] days and have > [threshold] chops
* Metamoderation is not "special", a meta-mod capable user can see a random selection of recent mods at any time and metamod.
* Metamod takes 2 mod points <==Wouldn't adding a cost for Meta-moderation decrease the pool of users willing to use it?
:::Metamod actions are like moderation actions, you spend modpoints on them. But they are twice as expensive as direct moderation. The theory is that users with more chops (and thus more modpoints to throw around) are more likely to spend some of them on metamoderation.
:::Alternatively.... Meta-mod should be open to all in good standing for RANDOM comments. Maybe allow burning 2 mod points to meta-mod a specific comment?
* Metamod can spend a mod point to "re-roll" and see a new set of random moderations
* A moderation is undone when it's "score" goes negative. It is "reapplied" when it goes positive. If the score dips to -3, the moderation is removed entirely. Default moderation value should be > 0, possibly 2 ??
* A user is not rewarded or punished for the metamod specifically
* A running total of positive and negative meta-moderations against them is calculated
::Receiving a threshold for positive or negative meta-mod counts result in fixed deltas in chops (Proposed Values)
+5 positive yields +1 chops 5 negative meta-mods -1 chpos score
+10 positive yields +2 chops 10 negative meta-mods -2 chops score
+15 positive yields +3 chops 15 negative meta-mods -3 chops score

* Your current chops as of more than 4 weeks ago is rolled into a fixed amount capped at 1.5 times the "Excellent" value and 1.5 times the most negative "Worst Poster" value.
* On a weekly basis a task is run across all accounts that collects chop point actions since the last summarization date forward a week (actions that happened about 3 weeks ago), applies these to the last +4 weeks ago score, truncates it to the ranges above, and stores it in the database with the new summarization date for that user's account.
* This prevents a user from "banking" actions that give them more chops to only later be a jerk.
* However it lets you be a bit grumpy in the short term since the value can go above the thresholds when calculating the current display/privs value (query all the outstanding chop actions for this user, add the point values to the historic value, store it for easy reference later, cached for an hour)

== Misc ==

From Danny B. on ARS:Try something novel.
::How about being able to mod and feedback on ads!

2014-02-10T21:21:39Z

SoylentNews

2014-02-10T19:23:11Z

Sfm:

[[FAQ|Frequently Asked Questions]]

'''Site Announcements'''

If you are having tech issues with the forum software, please Email Joel: soylent (at) finite (dot) ms

It's not certain whether we will be able to rollout on Monday as planned, but it's not out of the question either. Expect a rollout status update, late Monday

The slashcode group has been working very hard to get things up and running. SlashCode is 5 years old, heavily dependent on older revs (Apache, Perl, MySQL), and ran as root

Check out the [http://imgbin.org/index.php?page=image&id=16688| look and feel] of the new site!

----

We have a '''temporary''' name!

Thanks go out to everyone who made suggestions - some of them were
absolutely brilliant! For example, it hadn't occurred to me to choose a name based on a
non-English word, or a palindrome, or a puzzle. Many of the entries were quite clever.
(Adies, it took me more than a day to figure yours out. Bravo!)

I won't post the runners up because squatters might take the names before we hold the real
contest. We'll figure out a way to prevent this somehow - at worst case we can choose judges
and do it privately (like I did, but with more people).

Jerry had the winning entry.

The temp name is: '''SoylentNews''' with the tagline: '''SoylentNews is people!'''

Does this rock? It hits the trifecta of website goodness:

* Descriptive in a way that mundanes will understand (compare "photoshop" with "gimp", "Internet Explorer" with "Firefox", and "MediaPlayer" with "VLC")

* It's part of Nerd culture, a pun, and slightly twisted

* It's suggestive of being community driven

* It is attached to some movie about eating corpses and implies "News fresh as processed corpses" (??)

* Trademark issues

This will be a hard act to beat. Start thinking up names for the contest, or throw your weight
behind this one. The contest will be held soon after we open the doors.

(And it was poutine (from IRC) who suggested we use a temporary name. Others may also have suggested it, but it was his post that I noticed. Be sure to thank him if you see him on IRC.)

----

'''To everyone involved... THANK YOU!'''

We are building a news site alternative to Slashdot. We have started only a few days ago, and this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

The idea is to build a news aggregation site that delivers what's important - better articles, less fluff, and all the functionality you expect from the moderation system. We are still looking for volunteers so stop by the boards and the IRC and let us know you want to help!

* The proposed business model is [[Finances|here]] 
* Some business planning is [[Business|here]] 
* A statement of functionality (turn into a requirements document?)--- [[FeatureList]]

''' Get Involved '''

'''Hop in to IRC!''' - [[AltSlashdot:IRC|IRC]]: ##altslashdot on chat.freenode.net ([https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=##altslashdot Webchat])

'''Register on the forums''' - http://forums.SoylentNews.org
* Go to forums.SoylentNews.org and register a user
* Read [http://forums.soylentnews.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=38&sid=e55255cb6dfe68b28c8cf5f2b9697a64| this] post if you are having problems. (Thanks MrGuy)
* Add yourself to whichever groups you are interested in

'''Mumble (Voice / Text Server)''' : voice.whackperiod.org

'''Slashcott''' Organized boycott of the Dice-owned Slashdot pages
* Show your support for the "Get rid of Beta" crowd by avoiding Slashdot during the week of February 10-17

'''Contact:'''
If you want to send the project lead a message: John (at) SoylentNews (dot) org

==Status==

Check out the [[FAQ]]

* Forums are available at forums.SoylentNews.org
* We upgraded the hosting by two tiers - this should fix the problems people were having yesterday accessing the system.
* The System team is working on installing SlashCode. If all goes well, we expect to have a working system by Monday. Everyone believes this goal is achievable.
* The site now has forums with four user groups: Code, Content, Style, and System.
* Probably won't be non-profit, see [[Finances|business model]].
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

Mailing list update Messages are [[MailingListUpdates|here]]

==ToDo==
[[SlashcodeTodo|Slashcode Todo list]]

* Install SlashCode on the production site
* Get some people to help with the site
* Run a contest for a better name [[NewName|New name discussion]]
* Incorporate
* Consult a lawyer
* How to handle Advertising (necessary evil) - Opt Out, Limited, Typical(box with ads in the top-right corner)?
* Improved Mod/Meta-Mod/Story-Selection system to minimize required editor input
* Provide a voting system to decide which articles hit the main page (Mod point related?)
* Find and submit some stories

== List of Discussion Pages ==
*[[NewName|NewName]]
*[[MailingListUpdates|MailingListUpdates]]
*[[Finances|Finances]] -- which model would allow to minimise and/or distribute hosting costs
*[[Business|Business]]
*[[Monetization]] - Duscussion on how to cover costs to make this thing happen (and grow)
*[[FeatureList]] - Discussion of required/desired characteristics
*[[Submission guidelines|Submission guidelines]]
*[[Content]]
*[[Style]]
*[[Migration of users from Slashdot]] (if we build it, they will come)

== Milestones==

== Comments ==

* Have you considered talking with Bruce Parens? He had a site called "technocrat.net" that some people from slashdot were quite fond of not too long ago. It seems some people on slashdot are already trying to get him to re-launch it. I don't know if the two of you would have compatible goals or not, but it might be worth sending him an email. He has a parking page up on technocrat.net right now that has his email address on it.

* I'm a professional web developer and can help. I was about to register a domain on my VPS to start something like this. If you want, I'll do what I can to help. I've built a few CMS from scratch and am downloading slashcode right now. Incidentally I'm a hybrid as I am also a digital artist (namely in UI). We need an IRC channel to talk about this I think.--[[User:Hedgie|Hedgie]] ([[User talk:Hedgie|talk]]) 18:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I don't know about other people, but I think I would be more liable to stick with an alternative if it scraped content from original /. in addition to whatever else you do. [[Special:Contributions/173.13.21.65|173.13.21.65]] 09:21, 6 February 2014 (MST)

''I'm against this. I don't consider it fair - they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community. If we are to succeed, we need to do it on our own merits."

There are no doubt legal as well as moral objections to content scraping, but when you say "...they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community...", well, for over 15 years *we* have been that community and if not for us there would be some former college students who used to have a little hobby site.--unitron

** Scraping bad. Having editors dotted around the timezones that create their own better versions of the summaries, even if they contain just the same links as the /. story that inspired them, not bad. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:14, 6 February 2014 (MST)

** Agree with scraping bad. The general trend for the summaries has gone downhill badly over the past few years so better to have editors (re-)publish articles even if they use the same (or better) links ([[User:Qwade|Qwade]])

** Scraping Slashdot is pointless. It's been said many times, the discussion is the thing, not the articles. Considered purely as a news site, Slashdot is CRAP, always has been. Speaking of discussion, a Wiki is about the worst discussion medium I can imagine - is there anywhere we can move this to? - Mike Baranczak, 2014-02-07

* Maybe a wiki is the best way to do this? I see you've started with slashcode, but that might be a misstep. You have noticed by now that slashcode hasn't been updated in many years, hence it will be way behind the current slashdot. I think you might be better off hacking a wiki into slashdot-style functionality.

''I agree, this may be a misstep (and this occurred to me independently of your note). My best guess is to attempt installing slashcode and see where that goes, and try for a new system if it's unworkable. We'll see.''

:* I think hacking slashcode into slashdot-style functionality would be easier and better than hammering a wiki into that round hole. [[User:Mfnickster|Mfnickster]] ([[User talk:Mfnickster|talk]])

**[[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikinews]] is Wikimedia's attempt to turn a wiki in to a news site. Not sure how easy that would be to mold in to a more Slashdotty site

* If you don't want to use the old slashcode, have you considered looking at '''discourse''' as the site server? AFAICT, it's a reasonably new project which being developed intended to address the authors' perceived flaws in the status-quo of forum software. It's written in JavaScript, but it might serve as a starting point for a new codebase, or worth a look to get some inspiration:
** http://www.discourse.org/faq/
** https://github.com/discourse/discourse

* '''Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

* see Freenode, #slashdot-refugees for real time discussion.

'''UPDATE:''' ''My proposed [[Finances|business plan]] should allay these fears.''

''You make some good points.''

''In my experience, community-driven projects don't usually do well. This is not to say that no such projects succeed, but the balance of probability does not favor group management.''

''There is a wide selection of projects which are successful because one person had a vision and the drive to make that vision happen - every successful business starts this way.''

''I've run businesses that use a lot of volunteer help, so I've got some experience there.''

''As far as selling the website, it's crossed my mind. I don't want to "sell out" and destroy the community, but it would be nice to have an "exit strategy". Commenting on Slashdot fun, but doing it as a day job will probably get tedious.''

''I don't know what the answer is - it's something that we'll have to work out.''

* (I put in a topic with a suggestion on the discussion page so this doesn't get too cluttered. ~ElectricTurtle)

* Additional points: Make the whole website (including stories/comments) available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC-BY-SA] to retain the [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork right to fork]. You should also reconsider the name. I imagine "AltSlashdot" could get you into all sorts of legal trouble, since it is very close to the "Slashdot" trademark. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Attempt to '''coordinate and combine''' the parallel efforts. E.g. Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~dotancohen dotancohen] has [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46171009 apparently] registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot there. There are probably a dozen people hacking away separately on similar efforts. Competition is probably good, but combining efforts should be considered. --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].

* [https://github.com/digilord DigiLord] - I would like to help

* I'm the dotancohen mentioned by JustinOpinion. I have some limited experience with Amazon Web Services to run cloud servers for sites with very dynamic load profiles. Altslashdot seems like the perfect application of that technology, as we can expect to get slashdotted at any time. I also agree that we should coordinate efforts, as the whole premise is to keep the /. community together. [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:38, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Re: combining efforts. User somenickname (1270442) has registered bangslashdot.(org|net|com) [[http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757113&cid=46169131]]

* I ([[User:Bryan|Bryan]]) also plan on making a slashdot-inspired site. The website will be called "Pipedot" and be reachable at [http://pipedot.org/ pipedot.org] or [http://pipedot.com/ pipedot.com]. The motto will be "News for nerds, without the corporate slant." Get it? A pipe character looks like a slash without the slant! However, I plan on creating my own software instead of using slashcode/mediawiki/etc so it may take a while to get feature complete with slashdot classsic. (Why? Because I've always wanted to scratch that itch. Duh!)

* I think it would be best to just go over to Usenet. It is distributed, uncensorable, scales extremely well, the infrastructure is already in place, and it works. No Javascript, no business models, nothing but pure text-mode comment goodness. [http://www.eternal-september.org Eternal September] is free and works well, but does not allow binaries. That's fine, we have magnet links these days. EDIT: comp.misc is the new Slashdot. It's official now. Join us there and keep it free as in FREEDOM!

* relevant slashdot stats from 2011 [[http://www.dbasoul.com/2011/992.html]]
**5.5 million user visits per month.
**7,000 comments are added every day.
**Over 9 million pages views daily.
**Over 21 million comments.
**Average monthly bandwidth usage is around 40-50 mbit/sec (450GB/day)

* I suggest that when updates to the code are made, it should be in the charter (or whatever we are calling it) to make that code public. -- CommonJoe

::* See [[SoylentNews#Licensing.3F|my questions about licensing below]]. The AGPL would guarantee that the code remain public... anyone actually working with the new site/codebase want to weigh in? ~ [[User:Seandiggity|Seandiggity]] ([[User talk:Seandiggity|talk]]) 07:56, 10 February 2014 (MST)

== IRC ==
General Slashdot Discussion: Come on IRC channel #slashdot at irc.slashnet.org. Or use the web client: http://www.slashnet.org/webclient

AltSlashdot Discussion: Head to IRC channel ##AltSlashdot on irc.freenode.net, Web client is here: https://webchat.freenode.net/

=== Stories from former Slashdot users ===

[[Confessions of an Ex-Slashdot Beta User]]

[[Banned from Slashdot]]

[[Dice is killing Slashdot]]

== An interesting Idea ==
Check this out while it's still available. feedback appreciated
* http://slashdot.org/submission/3324011/a-modest-proposal-re-beta-vs-classic?utm_source=rss1.0&utm_medium=feed&sbsrc=firehose

== Telling the world about SoylentNews.org ==
*I don't know what John wants as far as advertising this page but I'm sure he wants as much exposure as possible.
*Please mention SolentNews.org as much as possible.
*It seems like the word is spreading (over 25,000 in 5 days) Good job everyone!
**Any idea on how and where to make sure people know about this project, please post them here?
:::I'd send a note along to Ars Technica & BoingBoing. (That would get some attention) 
:::Anyone have a Reddit account with a reasonable activity level? 
:::The Register, Digg, Hacker News and anything else you feel would help get the word out there
* Contacted:
** The Register
::: No word back
** Ars Technica
::: Was passed along to one of the writers
** Hacker News
::: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193251 Submission from when AltSlashdot just started]
::: Due for an update once we get an actual site up and running
:::: [https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7209927 Similar thread from today] [[User:Yahwotqa|Yahwotqa]] ([[User talk:Yahwotqa|talk]]) 10:05, 10 February 2014 (MST)

== Licensing? ==
Apologies for the repost, but this got buried in a talk page and I think we need to start discussing licensing beyond just the term "open-source".

If no one's said it yet, I think we need to move the updated version of Slash to AGPL and get it in a git repo for people to hack on (preferably github). First step in seeing if that's possible is finding out if it's GPLv2+ (i.e. with something like the phrase "or any later version"). Then you go GPLv3 --> AGPL.

Case for the AGPL: It's recommended by the FSF for any Web software, or really any that runs primarily over a network. In my view, it will protect us from seeing the fruit of our labors turn into another locked up DiceDot... how nice would it have been to have at least the updated "Slashdot Classic" interface available now to hack on instead of the circa 2009 version? The AGPL would have made that possible by requiring the release of modifications to Slash.

Regardless of whether the forked version of Slash goes AGPL, we should still have a clear idea what the license will be. It may require the consent of the original authors to move to a license besides GPLv2 (Rob Malda, Jonathon Pater, Patrick Galbraith, Chris Nandor, Brian Aker, Cliff Wood, Jamie McCarthy), and being stuck forever on GPLv2 would be a shame.

Whether or not the project is going to have a CLA that assigns copyright to some organization, or specifies some other terms, is another question that needs community discussion.

Keep up the great work everyone, very glad to see this materializing! ~ [[User:Seandiggity|Seandiggity]] ([[User talk:Seandiggity|talk]]) 12:36, 9 February 2014 (MST)

Database license? To maintain good will, the database should be able to be forked onto new sites if SoylentNews has any sign of going corporate (maybe a bit scrubbed).