SoylentNews - User contributions [en]

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-07T03:54:43Z

Nightbrood: /* Overall description: */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

* I'd be careful with assuming a 10% return. While long term history shows that to be the case, in the previous 10 years the S&P 500 has yielded under 8%. Additionally, if you are planning to deduct money out of the fund every year, one bad year can have catastrophic effects on the overall viability of the fund since you would be forced to liquidate assets at non-optimal prices. I would urge a more conservative measure. I would be happy look into these options with you as well since this is one of my areas of expertise. -Nightbrood

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-07T03:54:30Z

Nightbrood: /* Overall description: */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

** I'd be careful with assuming a 10% return. While long term history shows that to be the case, in the previous 10 years the S&P 500 has yielded under 8%. Additionally, if you are planning to deduct money out of the fund every year, one bad year can have catastrophic effects on the overall viability of the fund since you would be forced to liquidate assets at non-optimal prices. I would urge a more conservative measure. I would be happy look into these options with you as well since this is one of my areas of expertise. -Nightbrood

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-07T03:48:25Z

Nightbrood: /* Participation */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

*It has been awhile since I have been in the website business. What is the non-intrusive advertising market like as far as compensation rates? I'd be against advertorials. It is bad enough that supposedly reputable places like CNN and CNBC are littered with them. Donations and Premium subscriptions are another cash flow stream that could make the site viable. Especially if we are transparent what donations are used for etc. -Nightbrood

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-07T03:43:34Z

Nightbrood: /* Comments */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30
**That is an interesting idea. I have always wanted to reward people who take the time to contribute high quality content to a site. May be an idea worth considering but determining how such a system will work would require some thought. - Nightbrood

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus
** I like the idea of a cooperative. This should ultimately be for the community and would remove the negative stigma attached to a conventional corporation. - Nightbrood

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-07T03:39:28Z

Nightbrood: /* Comments */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* I have to agree with the others, I do not mind us starting something with paid staff. However, I do not feel this effort would be met with success if we essentially tell our community that this business won't mistreat them like the prior one did. Even though the prior one said they would not change anything. At this point, I think many in the community would be reticent to trade one corporate master for another. - Nightbrood

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)
*****I'm all for a "Bill of Rights" thing. If people are to switch over wholesale from Slashdot, the general community will need to come up with a list of demands, or a charter or something. We can't completely ruin any desire to run this site, but I think there are things a userbase can reasonably expect from a community driven site.

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.
**I second this motion of shares; the meme du jour is that The Users are Slashdot - let's make it literally true. If you buy a sub, you buy a share in the profits of any advertising after expenses, plus a vote on the future direction of the website. --Kell

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30

*What about using a "premium" model, as arstechnica does? People paying like 1$ or 5$ a month don't get ads. Plus a pdf of the most insulting comments that month :)

*Have you thought of created a cooperative? You would be CEO but managed by a board of directors. Board of directors would be elected by members. Members would be anyone who wants to pay for *premium* membership (no ads) with a $5 annual membership share. Members have a right to vote for the board of directors who make decisions about how the organization is run. One member one vote. You're still profitable but DICE-type heavy handed decisions are impossible because in most cooperatives, major decisions require a referendum by the membership. Something to consider, NCBA in the USA or ICA internationally have tons of resources on setting them up.
** I like this idea. There are piles of resources online that will direct you in setting up a co-op. - Cactus

SoylentNews

2014-02-07T03:34:58Z

Nightbrood: /* Banned */

'''A little less terrified...'''

I'm building a news site alternative to Slashdot. I've only started a couple of hours ago, this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

I intend to run a site much like Slashdot used to be - better articles, less decoration and less "in your face" functionality. I'm looking for volunteers to help with setup and running the site. If the site becomes profitable, I intend to hire from the pool of volunteers. If you've ever wanted to participate in a site like Slashdot, here's your chance!

The summary of the financial model is: People who help run the site will get an annuity ''in perpetuity''. This means that the annuity will survive after the death of the recipient, it can be inherited, and so on.

The proposed business model is [[Finances|here]].
Some business planning is [[Business|here]].

I'm particularly in need of people who can:

* Set up and manage a high-traffic site (servers, load-balancers, data sites, &c)
* Edit story submissions
* HTML, CSS, and script creation/bugfix/repair

Is anyone really good at getting big packages up and running? Slashcode has not been updated in several years (as far as I can tell) and it may be a little clunky at first. It's based on MySql, Apache, and perl. I have "passing familiarity" with these, but an expert could probably blast through it in a couple of hours... Another issue might be security vulnerabilities. Anyone want to audit the code?

Contact me if interested

John (at) AltSlashdot (dot) org

AltSlashdot Discussion:
Head to IRC channel ##AltSlashdot on irc.freenode.net, Web client is here: https://webchat.freenode.net/

==Status==
* We need a new name, see [[NewName|New name discussion]]
* Probably won't be non-profit, see [[Finances|business model]].
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.
* We won't monetize our readers (ie - we won't sell contact info to spammers)
* The site is intended to make money - in the same way Slashdot does (ads, merchandise, job postings)

Mailing list update Messages are [[MailingListUpdates|here]]

==Done==
* Registered "AltSlashdot.org", also ".com" and ".net".
* Purchased hosting through BlueHost
* I'm wading through SlashCode, learning the install procedures.

==ToDo==
[[SlashcodeTodo|Slashcode Todo list]]

* Install SlashCode on the production site
* Get some people to help with the site
* Run a contest for a better name
* Incorporate
* Consult a lawyer
* How to handle Advertising (necessary evil) - Opt Out, Limited, Standard ??
* Find and submit some stories
* Improved Mod/Meta-Mod/Story-Selection system to minimize required editor input
* Profit! ???

== List of Discussion Pages ==
*[[Finances|Finances]]
*[[MailingListUpdates|MailingListUpdates]]
*[[Submission guidelines|Submission guidelines]]
*[[Business|Business]]
*[[NewName|NewName]]
*[[SlashcodeTodo|SlashcodeTodo]]
That's all I see at the moment, please add more as you start or find new pages.

== Comments ==
*Wait, I just read about slashcott! Are you saying you're all going to be gone on Feb 10-17?? Oh my, glory, glory days, we can actually read stories without being bombarded with you idiots blathering on about your principled stances about whitespace and font kerning.

* I'm a professional web developer and can help. I was about to register a domain on my VPS to start something like this. If you want, I'll do what I can to help. I've built a few CMS from scratch and am downloading slashcode right now. Incidentally I'm a hybrid as I am also a digital artist (namely in UI). We need an IRC channel to talk about this I think.--[[User:Hedgie|Hedgie]] ([[User talk:Hedgie|talk]]) 18:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I don't know about other people, but I think I would be more liable to stick with an alternative if it scraped content from original /. in addition to whatever else you do. [[Special:Contributions/173.13.21.65|173.13.21.65]] 09:21, 6 February 2014 (MST)

''I'm against this. I don't consider it fair - they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community. If we are to succeed, we need to do it on our own merits."

** Scraping bad. Having editors dotted around the timezones that create their own better versions of the summaries, even if they contain just the same links as the /. story that inspired them, not bad. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:14, 6 February 2014 (MST)

** Agree with scraping bad. The general trend for the summaries has gone downhill badly over the past few years so better to have editors (re-)publish articles even if they use the same (or better) links ([[User:Qwade|Qwade]])

* Maybe a wiki is the best way to do this? I see you've started with slashcode, but that might be a misstep. You have noticed by now that slashcode hasn't been updated in many years, hence it will be way behind the current slashdot. I think you might be better off hacking a wiki into slashdot-style functionality.

''I agree, this may be a misstep (and this occurred to me independently of your note). My best guess is to attempt installing slashcode and see where that goes, and try for a new system if it's unworkable. We'll see.''

**[[https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page Wikinews]] is Wikimedia's attempt to turn a wiki in to a news site. Not sure how easy that would be to mold in to a more Slashdotty site

* If you don't want to use the old slashcode, have you considered looking at '''discourse''' as the site server? AFAICT, it's a reasonably new project which being developed intended to address the authors' perceived flaws in the status-quo of forum software. It's written in JavaScript, but it might serve as a starting point for a new codebase, or worth a look to get some inspiration:
** http://www.discourse.org/faq/
** https://github.com/discourse/discourse

* '''Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

* see Freenode, #slashdot-refugees for real time discussion.

'''UPDATE:''' ''My proposed [[Finances|business plan]] should allay these fears.''

''You make some good points.''

''In my experience, community-driven projects don't usually do well. This is not to say that no such projects succeed, but the balance of probability does not favor group management.''

''There is a wide selection of projects which are successful because one person had a vision and the drive to make that vision happen - every successful business starts this way.''

''I've run businesses that use a lot of volunteer help, so I've got some experience there.''

''As far as selling the website, it's crossed my mind. I don't want to "sell out" and destroy the community, but it would be nice to have an "exit strategy". Commenting on Slashdot fun, but doing it as a day job will probably get tedious.''

''I don't know what the answer is - it's something that we'll have to work out.''

* (I put in a topic with a suggestion on the discussion page so this doesn't get too cluttered. ~ElectricTurtle)

* Additional points: Make the whole website (including stories/comments) available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC-BY-SA] to retain the [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork right to fork]. You should also reconsider the name. I imagine "AltSlashdot" could get you into all sorts of legal trouble, since it is very close to the "Slashdot" trademark. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* John@AltSlashdot.org seems to be bouncing. I'd like to help.

''It's fixed now - please try again.''

''(I created the E-mails through the registrar and tested them. When I pointed the DNS to BlueHost the E-mail target changed along with the web. Didn't expect that to change, so never bothered to check after initial test.)''

* Attempt to '''coordinate and combine''' the parallel efforts. E.g. Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~dotancohen dotancohen] has [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46171009 apparently] registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot there. There are probably a dozen people hacking away separately on similar efforts. Competition is probably good, but combining efforts should be considered. --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].

* [https://github.com/digilord DigiLord] - I would like to help

* I'm the dotancohen mentioned by JustinOpinion. I have some limited experience with Amazon Web Services to run cloud servers for sites with very dynamic load profiles. Altslashdot seems like the perfect application of that technology, as we can expect to get slashdotted at any time. I also agree that we should coordinate efforts, as the whole premise is to keep the /. community together. [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:38, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Re: combining efforts. User somenickname (1270442) has registered bangslashdot.(org|net|com) [[http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757113&cid=46169131]]

== IRC ==
General Slashdot Discussion: Come on IRC channel #slashdot at irc.slashnet.org. Or use the web client: http://www.slashnet.org/webclient

AltSlashdot Discussion: Head to IRC channel ##AltSlashdot on irc.freenode.net, Web client is here: https://webchat.freenode.net/

== Banned ==
Anyone else get banned from Slashdot? I did a few 'Fuck Beta' posts and a Beta submission, and apparently this was enough to get a temporary ban. - Robotron23

That is surprising, I posted several times today and did not get anything. I wonder if it had something to do with the Beta submission. - Nightbrood

== Features ==
What features worked and what features did not work during the lifetime of Slashdot? I would like to create a section about this but there's no link to do so.

IE: Feature that worked was the karma system allowed users to voluntarily disable the advertisement, made them feel happy even though it did nothing different for the business.

Feature that did not work: Adding a sponsored poll / slashvertising

NewName

2014-02-07T03:32:01Z

Nightbrood: Added my comments to the naming conversation

''We need a new name''

''I agree with everyone who has suggested a name different from "AltSlashdot".''

''So far, none of the suggested alternatives seem to be popular (I considered "ForkSlashdot" and discarded it :-).''

''I think the best course is to get things up and running and then hold a name contest. A community effort should make this task easy.''

''We don't have to do this immediately. "AltSlashdot" is significantly different from "Slashdot", and we won't be poaching any of their stories or (as much as practical) style.''

''If things go very well, the new site might be up and running by Monday (Feb 10). Giving some time to settle in, we could have the contest in two weeks or so. If everything goes well...''

==Name change discussion==

killbeta.org?
diebetadie.org?

unitron

* Really, I'm sold on AltSlashdot, but I just want to make sure that there will be enough Natalie Portman.

''If we turn a profit by the end of the year, I'll put a Natalie Portman link on the front page.''

* Can we somehow get Cowboyneal back? Can we plan some evil way to get him fired from his current job and desperate enough to come back reestablish the Slashdot community as its tribal leader?

== New Name ==

SlashUsr as in /usr

SlashHome as in /home

SlashVarLog as in /var/log

Name it "DotDotSlash" as in cd ../

I vote for hashbash as in #!(/bin/zsh)

On similar lines to the above, hashdot, abbreviated '''#.'''

BinBash as in /bin/bash

SlashNot?

bangslashdot.com .net .org (!/.) Reference from /. article: Re:Boycott (Score:2)
by somenickname (1270442) on Wednesday February 05, 2014 @08:47PM (#46169131)
Just registered bangslashdot.com/net/org (!/.) in case Slashdot needs to be forked to a new site. Will happily sell the domain to a more capable web-type for the exact price I paid (with the stipulation that I get a low UID).

* Consider a '''name change'''. If you're serious about this, then the name "AltSlashdot" will run you into legal trouble down the road, since Slashdot/Dice/etc. will sue for Trademark infringement (and will have a solid case). Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~tpaudio tpaudio] suggested [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46170795 "Plusdot"]. Another idea (mine) is to call it "divergence" or "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence divergence operator]"... the logo would be the mathematical form of divergence, i.e. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol nabla] symbol followed by a dot (which looks like an augmented "slash dot"). --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].
** I agree with JustinOpinion, any name with "slash" or "dot" in it will put us in the crosshairs of Dice's lawyers, and we do not want that. "Divergence" is nice. --[[User:Sir Garlon]] 16:36, 2014-02-06 (EST)
** Perhaps altslash.org? Sounds far enough from slashdot to avoid problems, but close enough to clue in any refugees. [[User:Max Hyre|Max Hyre]] ([[User talk:Max Hyre|talk]]) 08:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)
** I'm gonna vote for '''divergence''', I think the name along speaks to the community as to why we want something different/better than the aim of SlashFail Beta. (keick)
** Vote for '''divergence''' also for the same reasons as mentioned above (Qwade)
** I also vote for '''divergence''' anything that comes out of this will probably be eyed by Dice legal. (Nightbrood)

* I agree that AltSlashdot is hard to pronounce, but wasn't that the idea behind h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-o-r-g (that is should be hard to pronounce)? [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:41, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* The name "AltSlashdot" does not "mouth" well. May I suggest "Slashfork"? --[[User:Koen|Koen]] ([[User talk:Koen|talk]]) 08:52, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* How about betterthanbeta.org or similar? After all, we all know what created this. Another option would be some meme-based thing, like frostyhotgrits.org. Actually, frostyhotgrits.org would be both unique, and make most Slashdotters feel right at home. Greets, Iskender (1040286) [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 09:39, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* backslashdot.org. Backslash. Back to basics. Back to the old school. Hell yea.

* can we get one of those new top-level domains, like .bank, except instead get .dot? Then name it SlashSlash.dot ;-)

* I second the person who suggested dot-dot-slash (../). Going up a directory is like going "back", which is the purpose of the new site - going back to how things used to be.
** This does seem to be the clear winner. Though backslash.com (which appears to be a parked domain) would work well too, since it's not *immediately* obvious legally that we stole the name (back slash dot com) from slashdot. Too bad dashdot.com and slashdotdash.com are both real in-use sites. slashdotdashdot.com appears to be parked, though.
**I second backslash.com if the domain can be obtained. ../ would be the subtler option, and I'm in favor of it.

* May I suggest HashBang (#!), I think it has a slightly better ring to it than hashbash
** I think anything with "#!" is probably going to be too close to Crunchbang Linux. They use that exact shorthand symbol. - Cactus

* Some fantastic ideas: SlashStar (/*), SlashSlash (//), ShebangShebang (#!#!), HotGrits, SovietSlashdot, DotSlash (./), DotSlashDot (./.), GNU/Slashdot (GNU//.), GNS (GNS = "GNP's Not Slashdot", and GNP = "Grits on Natalie Portman"), CowboyNeal.net, RoblimosOrphans.org, BangBangBang (!!!), CarrotSlashSlashSlashDot (^\/\.), YoungPastyHonkies.net, NoDiceSlashdot, SlashReset (/Reset), Carrotdot (^.), SlashHash (/#), PurpleTaro, CowboyNealOption, DennisRitchieIsGod.com, Ctrl-H (^H), Ctrl-C (^C), HGNP (Hot Grits on Natalie Portman)
* *.onion

* altslashctrl -- sort of gets the point across

* nodice.org and no-dice.org are unfortunately not available. -- [[User:Stderr dk|Stderr dk]] ([[User talk:Stderr dk|talk]]) 12:00, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* dicetoss.org is available

How much would dice holdings sell the classic slashdot.org site for? They can keep SlashTV, SlashBI, etc.

* I think the name should be kept to two syllables or less. Some of my favorites: dotdot (..), notdot(!.), backslash (\). Although it may be better to define the site based on what it is (is there any vision here other than 'slashdot classic'?) rather than what it isn't (slashdot beta). If this gains traction, it will be on its own merits and not because it forked slashcode. Maybe something like hashtech (#tech)? Works for old school IRC nerds and twitter hashtags.
** Not that I'm a particular fan of social media, but I do like #tech.
** +1 for '''backslash'''. Sounds like backlash, refers to Slashdot, and still a keyboard character. Apparantly, the domain BACKSLASH DOT ORG is for sale: [http://backslash.org/] (Moderator - 189749)
** +1 for backslash here..

* How about BangDot or KillDot? It sounds similar, but it is different enough than nobody will be able to claim it leads to confusion.
* How about Tildedot? h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-dot-tidle-dot-dot-org? (keick)
** Or maybe !|.org? BangPipe :) (keick)

* Can we stick these in a table please? With a column that indicates their status (taken - in use / taken - parked / available)? It also makes sense to group them into classes like: anti-dice, recognisably-similar-to-slashdot, novel. [[User:FatPhil|FatPhil]] ([[User talk:FatPhil|talk]]) 14:07, 6 February 2014 (MST) (FatPhil)

* I vote for hashbang.com unfortunately it seems that someone is parked on it. (Githaron)

* I think it has to be of the same spirit as slashdot. Taco wanted it to be confusing for people to type into a browser after hearing it h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-org. I suggust something in that vein, tuned to the current mobile app store. I'd suggust something like the PlayAppStore. You'd sound like an idiot trying to explain it to someone else: go to playappstore

* Or we could go really go back to chips & dip, the previous name of slashdot,
it looks like the domain name has expired when i did a whois search. I liked the idea of using hashbang but like someone else pointed out it is used...

* I second both "chips and dip" and "dotdotslash" as clever alternatives. Divergence is second tier but I will also support it if no other alternatives gain traction.

* Is something like slashplusplus or something similar available? I like it because it is an increment of the past variable. Only downside is the slash in the name might not sit well with Dice legal. Trying to stay true to Taco's original naming convention is going to be difficult. (Nightbrood)

==Name Options==
Please add ideas to these tables. Where possible, note if the URL is available. Consider adding your username to the 'votes' column.

====References to Slashdot, Beta, Dice, etc.====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| AltSlashot
| Alt/.
| altslashdot.org (registered by us)
| ''Trademark issues!''
|-
| AltSlash
| Alt/
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| AtSlash
| @/
|
| ''.org appears open. "I read it at atslashdotorg"''
|-
| ForkSlashdot
|
|
|
|-
| SlashFork
|
|
|
|-
| SlashNot
| /!
|
|
|-
| BackSlash
| \
|
| Slashdot actually has a subsection called 'backslash'.
|-
| KillDot
|
|
|
|-
| KillBeta
|
|
|
|-
| DieBetaDie
|
|
|
|-
| BetterThanBeta
|
|
|
|-
| NoDice
|
|
|
|-
| DiceToss
|
|
|
|-
| NoDiceAllowed
|
|
| Domain Available
|-
| ColonSlash
|
|
| Because it looks funny (suggested on reddit)
|
|-
|SlashDash
|/-
|
|
|}

====Typographic/Computer Puns====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| '''''DotDotSlash'''''
| ../
|
| As in "cd ../" ... also implies going back or up a level
|-
| HashBash
| #!(/bin/bash)
|
|
|-
| HashBang
| #!
| URL taken (parked domain)
| Possible confusion with Crunchbang Linux?
|-
| HashDot
| #.
|
|
|-
| DotDot
| ..
|
|
|-
| NotDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BangDot
| !.
|
|
|-
| BackDot
| \.
|
|
|-
| BangSlashDot
| !/.
| Available to us (registered by Slashdot user somenickname (184564)).
|
|-
| TildeDot
| ~.
|
|
|-
| BangPipe
| !|
|
|
|-
| SlashStar
| /*
|
|
|-
| SlashSlash
| //
|
|
|-
| ShebangShebang
| #!#!
|
|
|-
| CaretSlashSlashSlashDot
| ^\/\.
|
|
|-
| CaretDot
| ^.
|
|
|-
| SlashHash
| /#
|
|
|-
| PlusDot
| +.
|
|
|-
| BinBash
| /bin/bash
|
|
|-
| SlashUsr
| /usr
|
|
|-
| SlashHome
| /home
|
|
|-
| SlashVarLog
| /var/log
|
|
|-
| divergence
|
|
| The name represents how we're going in a new direction. Also, the symbol could be the mathematical divergence operator: a 'nabla' followed by a dot, which looks like an 'augmented' version of a slash followed by a dot.
|-
| HashTech
| #tech
|
| Has dual IRC and hastag meanings.
|-
| PlayAppStore
|
|
| "Slashdot" was meant to confuse neophytes reading it aloud; the modern equivalent would be calling a site something like "PlayAppStore".
|}

====Memes====
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Name
! Rendering
! URL
! Comments/Votes
|-
| CowboyNeal
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| Natalie Portman
|
|
| ''Trademark issues?''
|-
| HotGrits
|
|
|
|-
| FrostyHotGrits
|
|
|
|-
| Cyborg Bill
|
|
| ''Was this the right term?''
|}