SoylentNews - User contributions [en]

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-06T20:50:58Z

CoolHand: /* Comments */

'''Note:''' this is only a proposal! This has never been done before, and I have no idea at this time whether it's feasible, or even legal.

You can leave comments in the space below

==Synopsis:==

The financial intent of the business will be to make people independent. To that end, the company will fund $52,000 annuities to be given to people who help build and maintain the system.

==Overall description:==

The purpose of the fund is to take people out of the workforce without leaving them in poverty. A fund participant receives a weekly income large enough to live on, by which they may (if they choose) leave the workforce.

Income is paid in perpetuity: payout continues after death of original recipient, can be willed, inherited, sold or given away. Income is strictly one per person.

The proposed fund account returns $52,000/year ($1000/week). Fund amount needed to attain that level is hypothetically $1 million per participant:

* 10% Overall return (Indexed fund returns over 40 years == 12%. [http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/2013/04/04/index-fund-returns-get-better-with-age/ source])

* -3.5% Inflation adjustment

* -0.5% Management fees (Similar to Fidelity Portfolio Advisory Service. [https://www.fidelity.com/managed-accounts/portfolio-advisory-service/overview source])

* -5.2% Annual payout

With these numbers, fund will gain 0.8% annual value over time, which can be used as hedge against poor market performance.

==Participation==

AltSlashdot will employ N people for site management. Site will accrue profits until N times $1 million is attained, and then award each employee with one annuity.

This is the weak point 'site will accrue profits' but how? Advertising? advertorials? Donations? In general, I'd suggest that we use a standard template that deals with cash flow, income etc.

== Comments ==

This is very good for 'employees' but it does nothing to prevent the same thing as happened to Slashdot 1.0. How is this new endeavor going to protect its users and be accountable to them? What prevents this from being a pump and dump? ~ElectricTurtle

* Agree with Electric... Primary purpose of any fund should be to cover operating costs, then worry about paying the people who run the place. To get a true quourum of /. here, I think it needs to be more open source than that, with assurances that the community won't lose out again... -- CoolHnd30

* I suppose it means that those involved in running this venture will bust their asses to make sure the fund hits that magic number. It would mean keeping visitors happy for how ever long that takes, spreading the word, and making that $$ come in. If the community isn't happy, people wont see ads / buy merch, and retirement never comes. I'm just assuming that's the thought process. - Cactus

** And once the goal is reached, the oligarchs can just turn on the community again, cash out, and say "Deuces!" while they get paid in perpetuity. ~ElectricTurtle

*** True enough. Any suggestions on what would allay community fears while letting Okian Warrior do something at least similar to what he wants to try? I really think this idea could be a very strong motivator to those involved... but I don't know what would keep it from possibly going down in flames once the goal is reached. - Cactus
**** I had made a suggestion [http://www.altslashdot.org/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:AltSlashdot#Group_or_Business] about establishing some guarantees in a charter that can only be changed with buy-in from the userbase. (Unlike the sundry TOS where terms can be changed at any time without notice bullshit.)--[[User:ElectricTurtle|ElectricTurtle]] ([[User talk:ElectricTurtle|talk]]) 13:23, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* Well, if you want to do this and not succumb to the "sold out" aspect, then the 'annuities' need to be in the form of shares - then the people who contributed to make the site get a say in how and what happens to it, and if the majority think selling out is a bad thing, then it will not get sold off. Sure, you need income to pay hosting and other things, but I think that can come with a subtle bit of advertising stuck off the bottom. Or you can sell the userbase's details to the marketeers .. like "not evil" Google does. Anyway, I think it should be more concerned with being more open source and idealistic from the start.

*micropayments for highly rated posts? --CoolHnd30

Talk:SoylentNews

2014-02-06T19:40:07Z

CoolHand: /* Hot Grits */

"You have followed a link to a page that does not exist yet. To create the page, start typing in the box below"

Okay, let's see if that works.

And help kill beta by joining the Slashcott

February 10th -17th

unitron

Slashdot UID 5733

== Teething pains? ==

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

John@AltSlashdot.org
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<John@AltSlashdot.org>:
host mail.altslashdot.org [66.147.244.192]: 550 No Such User Here

...

Is this an "only if Slashdot doesn't back down on beta" contingency, or =
"going to happen no matter what Slashdot does"?

...

== Hot Grits ==

I have poured them down my pants. Thank you. [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 10:16, 6 February 2014 (MST) Iskender (1040286)

*Why are they down your pants? They should be on Natalie Portman - naked and petrified..

== Group or Business ==

Okian Warrior seems to want to be CmdrTaco all over again. While I am a very, very pro-business sort of person, I don't think we want to just push reset and do Slashdot over again as another build it up and cash out endeavor. It seems like that's exactly what would happen, and on the backs of volunteers no less. The only way I could see supporting this endeavor as a business would be with some sort of codified protection like a charter, whereby certain attributes of the way the site functions would be guaranteed, and those guarantees could only be changed if (the charter could only be modified if) the users were polled and agreed to it. In this way the business could operate but be ultimately accountable to and restrained by the userbase. This seems like a good hybrid solution.

Historic:Finances/Archive

2014-02-06T19:38:43Z

CoolHand: /* Comments */

SoylentNews

2014-02-06T17:16:33Z

CoolHand: /* Comments */

'''A little less terrified...'''

I'm building a news site alternative to Slashdot. I've only started a couple of hours ago, this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

I intend to run a site much like Slashdot used to be - better articles, less decoration and less "in your face" functionality. I'm looking for volunteers to help with setup and running the site. If the site becomes profitable, I intend to hire from the pool of volunteers. If you've ever wanted to participate in a site like Slashdot, here's your chance!

I'm particularly in need of people who can:

* Set up and manage a high-traffic site (servers, load-balancers, data sites, &c)
* Edit story submissions
* HTML, CSS, and script creation/bugfix/repair

Contact me if interested

John (at) AltSlashdot (dot) org

'''Updates'''

The contact E-mail is fixed (explanation below). If you tried and got a bounce, please try again.

I've answered individual questions below, but the synopsis is:

* We need a new name, will hold a contest once the site is running
* Probably won't be non-profit (see explanation)
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

'''Current Progress'''

* Registered "AltSlashdot.org", also ".com" and ".net".
* Purchased hosting through BlueHost
* I'm wading through SlashCode, learning the install procedures.

'''ToDo'''

* Install SlashCode on my home server.

When I'm comfortable with the install and get the kinks worked out, I'll try installing it on the production site

* Install SlashCode on the production site
* Get some people to help with the site
* Find and submit some stories
* Run a contest for a better name
* Incorporate
* Consult a lawyer

== Comments ==
* '''Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

''You make some good points.''

''In my experience, community-driven projects don't usually do well. This is not to say that no such projects succeed, but the balance of probability does not favor group management.''

''There is a wide selection of projects which are successful because one person had a vision and the drive to make that vision happen - every successful business starts this way.''

''I've run businesses that use a lot of volunteer help, so I've got some experience there.''

''As far as selling the website, it's crossed my mind. I don't want to "sell out" and destroy the community, but it would be nice to have an "exit strategy". Commenting on Slashdot fun, but doing it as a day job will probably get tedious.''

''I don't know what the answer is - it's something that we'll have to work out.''

* Additional points: Make the whole website (including stories/comments) available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC-BY-SA] to retain the [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork right to fork]. You should also reconsider the name. I imagine "AltSlashdot" could get you into all sorts of legal trouble, since it is very close to the "Slashdot" trademark. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* John@AltSlashdot.org seems to be bouncing. I'd like to help.

''It's fixed now - please try again.''

''(I created the E-mails through the registrar and tested them. When I pointed the DNS to BlueHost the E-mail target changed along with the web. Didn't expect that to change, so never bothered to check after initial test.)''

* Attempt to '''coordinate and combine''' the parallel efforts. E.g. Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~dotancohen dotancohen] has [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46171009 apparently] registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot there. There are probably a dozen people hacking away separately on similar efforts. Competition is probably good, but combining efforts should be considered. --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].

* [https://github.com/digilord DigiLord] - I would like to help

* I'm the dotancohen mentioned by JustinOpinion. I have some limited experience with Amazon Web Services to run cloud servers for sites with very dynamic load profiles. Altslashdot seems like the perfect application of that technology, as we can expect to get slashdotted at any time. I also agree that we should coordinate efforts, as the whole premise is to keep the /. community together. [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:38, 6 February 2014 (MST)

killbeta.org?
diebetadie.org?

unitron

* I don't know about other people, but I think I would be more liable to stick with an alternative if it scraped content from original /. in addition to whatever else you do. [[Special:Contributions/173.13.21.65|173.13.21.65]] 09:21, 6 February 2014 (MST)

''I'm against this. I don't consider it fair - they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community. If we are to succeed, we need to do it on our own merits."

c
*I'm always up for a good fork (if there are good valid reasons).. I would consider helping, although may be limited to reviewing submissions. I have limited skill in the other requested areas, but probably not enough to be what we need..
....CoolHnd30

== New Name ==

Name it "DotDotSlash" as in cd ../

''I agree with everyone who has suggested a name different from "AltSlashdot".''

''So far, none of the suggested alternatives seem to be popular (I considered "ForkSlashdot" myself, and discarded it).''

''I think the best course is to get things up and running and then hold a name contest. A community effort should make this task easy.''

''We don't have to do this immediately. "AltSlashdot" is significantly different from "Slashdot", and we won't be poaching any of their stories or (as much as practical) style.''

* Consider a '''name change'''. If you're serious about this, then the name "AltSlashdot" will run you into legal trouble down the road, since Slashdot/Dice/etc. will sue for Trademark infringement (and will have a solid case). Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~tpaudio tpaudio] suggested [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46170795 "Plusdot"]. Another idea (mine) is to call it "divergence" or "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence divergence operator]"... the logo would be the mathematical form of divergence, i.e. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol nabla] symbol followed by a dot (which looks like an augmented "slash dot"). --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].
** Perhaps altslash.org? Sounds far enough from slashdot to avoid problems, but close enough to clue in any refugees. [[User:Max Hyre|Max Hyre]] ([[User talk:Max Hyre|talk]]) 08:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I agree that AltSlashdot is hard to pronounce, but wasn't that the idea behind h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-o-r-g (that is should be hard to pronounce)? [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:41, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* The name "AltSlashdot" does not "mouth" well. May I suggest "Slashfork"? --[[User:Koen|Koen]] ([[User talk:Koen|talk]]) 08:52, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* How about betterthanbeta.org or similar? After all, we all know what created this. Another option would be some meme-based thing, like frostyhotgrits.org. Actually, frostyhotgrits.org would be both unique, and make most Slashdotters feel right at home. Greets, Iskender (1040286) [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 09:39, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* backslashdot.org. Backslash. Back to basics. Back to the old school. Hell yea.

* can we get one of those new top-level domains, like .bank, except instead get .dot? Then name it SlashSlash.dot ;-)

SoylentNews

2014-02-06T17:14:49Z

CoolHand: /* Comments */

'''A little less terrified...'''

I'm building a news site alternative to Slashdot. I've only started a couple of hours ago, this wiki is a temporary measure so that volunteers can coordinate and others can see what's happening.

I intend to run a site much like Slashdot used to be - better articles, less decoration and less "in your face" functionality. I'm looking for volunteers to help with setup and running the site. If the site becomes profitable, I intend to hire from the pool of volunteers. If you've ever wanted to participate in a site like Slashdot, here's your chance!

I'm particularly in need of people who can:

* Set up and manage a high-traffic site (servers, load-balancers, data sites, &c)
* Edit story submissions
* HTML, CSS, and script creation/bugfix/repair

Contact me if interested

John (at) AltSlashdot (dot) org

'''Updates'''

The contact E-mail is fixed (explanation below). If you tried and got a bounce, please try again.

I've answered individual questions below, but the synopsis is:

* We need a new name, will hold a contest once the site is running
* Probably won't be non-profit (see explanation)
* We won't poach from Slashdot. This includes articles and logos, also "style" to a reasonable extent.

'''Current Progress'''

* Registered "AltSlashdot.org", also ".com" and ".net".
* Purchased hosting through BlueHost
* I'm wading through SlashCode, learning the install procedures.

'''ToDo'''

* Install SlashCode on my home server.

When I'm comfortable with the install and get the kinks worked out, I'll try installing it on the production site

* Install SlashCode on the production site
* Get some people to help with the site
* Find and submit some stories
* Run a contest for a better name
* Incorporate
* Consult a lawyer

== Comments ==
* '''Do this as a non-profit, user-run organization please'''. From what you write it looks like you want replace the regime, not giving the users the control over the website. Why should we trust you not to sell the website to a DICE-like company after it becomes successful? I applaud your efforts to change things, but I really believe that a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Organization Debian Project] like institution that is both non-commercial and controlled/run by the community has a much higher chance of securing the goals we fight for right now in the long-term. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I like the comment on a Debian like project organization, also, maybe we can create a freenode IRC channel to further organize?

''You make some good points.''

''In my experience, community-driven projects don't usually do well. This is not to say that no such projects succeed, but the balance of probability does not favor group management.''

''There is a wide selection of projects which are successful because one person had a vision and the drive to make that vision happen - every successful business starts this way.''

''I've run businesses that use a lot of volunteer help, so I've got some experience there.''

''As far as selling the website, it's crossed my mind. I don't want to "sell out" and destroy the community, but it would be nice to have an "exit strategy". Commenting on Slashdot fun, but doing it as a day job will probably get tedious.''

''I don't know what the answer is - it's something that we'll have to work out.''

* Additional points: Make the whole website (including stories/comments) available under [https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ CC-BY-SA] to retain the [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToFork right to fork]. You should also reconsider the name. I imagine "AltSlashdot" could get you into all sorts of legal trouble, since it is very close to the "Slashdot" trademark. --[[Special:Contributions/141.84.69.20|141.84.69.20]] 03:20, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* John@AltSlashdot.org seems to be bouncing. I'd like to help.

''It's fixed now - please try again.''

''(I created the E-mails through the registrar and tested them. When I pointed the DNS to BlueHost the E-mail target changed along with the web. Didn't expect that to change, so never bothered to check after initial test.)''

* Attempt to '''coordinate and combine''' the parallel efforts. E.g. Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~dotancohen dotancohen] has [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46171009 apparently] registered the domain "slashdotan" and is looking to build a new Slashdot there. There are probably a dozen people hacking away separately on similar efforts. Competition is probably good, but combining efforts should be considered. --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].

* [https://github.com/digilord DigiLord] - I would like to help

* I'm the dotancohen mentioned by JustinOpinion. I have some limited experience with Amazon Web Services to run cloud servers for sites with very dynamic load profiles. Altslashdot seems like the perfect application of that technology, as we can expect to get slashdotted at any time. I also agree that we should coordinate efforts, as the whole premise is to keep the /. community together. [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:38, 6 February 2014 (MST)

killbeta.org?
diebetadie.org?

unitron

* I don't know about other people, but I think I would be more liable to stick with an alternative if it scraped content from original /. in addition to whatever else you do. [[Special:Contributions/173.13.21.65|173.13.21.65]] 09:21, 6 February 2014 (MST)

''I'm against this. I don't consider it fair - they've put a lot of effort into building up their brand and community. If we are to succeed, we need to do it on our own merits."

c
*I'm always up for a good fork (if there are good valid reasons).. I would consider helping, although may be limited to reviewing submissions. I have limited skill in the other requested areas, but probably not enough to be what we need..

== New Name ==

Name it "DotDotSlash" as in cd ../

''I agree with everyone who has suggested a name different from "AltSlashdot".''

''So far, none of the suggested alternatives seem to be popular (I considered "ForkSlashdot" myself, and discarded it).''

''I think the best course is to get things up and running and then hold a name contest. A community effort should make this task easy.''

''We don't have to do this immediately. "AltSlashdot" is significantly different from "Slashdot", and we won't be poaching any of their stories or (as much as practical) style.''

* Consider a '''name change'''. If you're serious about this, then the name "AltSlashdot" will run you into legal trouble down the road, since Slashdot/Dice/etc. will sue for Trademark infringement (and will have a solid case). Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~tpaudio tpaudio] suggested [http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4757151&cid=46170795 "Plusdot"]. Another idea (mine) is to call it "divergence" or "[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divergence divergence operator]"... the logo would be the mathematical form of divergence, i.e. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabla_symbol nabla] symbol followed by a dot (which looks like an augmented "slash dot"). --Slashdot user [http://slashdot.org/~JustinOpinion JustinOpinion].
** Perhaps altslash.org? Sounds far enough from slashdot to avoid problems, but close enough to clue in any refugees. [[User:Max Hyre|Max Hyre]] ([[User talk:Max Hyre|talk]]) 08:34, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* I agree that AltSlashdot is hard to pronounce, but wasn't that the idea behind h-t-t-p-colon-slash-slash-slash-dot-dot-o-r-g (that is should be hard to pronounce)? [[User:Dotancohen|Dotancohen]] ([[User talk:Dotancohen|talk]]) 08:41, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* The name "AltSlashdot" does not "mouth" well. May I suggest "Slashfork"? --[[User:Koen|Koen]] ([[User talk:Koen|talk]]) 08:52, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* How about betterthanbeta.org or similar? After all, we all know what created this. Another option would be some meme-based thing, like frostyhotgrits.org. Actually, frostyhotgrits.org would be both unique, and make most Slashdotters feel right at home. Greets, Iskender (1040286) [[Special:Contributions/86.50.93.164|86.50.93.164]] 09:39, 6 February 2014 (MST)

* backslashdot.org. Backslash. Back to basics. Back to the old school. Hell yea.

* can we get one of those new top-level domains, like .bank, except instead get .dot? Then name it SlashSlash.dot ;-)